Polybombed? New and overwhelmed

[UnsureNewbie]

Hi all. I'm a 29F in a 7yr mono marriage, recently opening up? I don't even know how to describe it.
At this point in my journey, I'm feeling rather unsure whether I'm polyamorous, monogamous or anything of the sort because I've never questioned any of this. I was raised but am now Ex-Mormon, which may not seem like an important piece to add but it really has made me realize that even though I've left religion, my subculture and general culture/society has indoctrinated me.
Without too many details to try and keep this short, my husband of 7 years recently decided (?) he was polyamorous AFTER seeking out another relationship in the name of our "open relationship"; which was not necessarily mutual but that's a whole other conversation. I've been trying to move forward and it's been through a lot of heartache. What I'm discovering through what feels like reading every article on polyamory, open relationships etc available and beginning "Opening Up", I'm just feeling so lost. Will this ever make sense? When will I figure out my desires? At this point I'm feeling so overwhelmed. I'm hoping to make some friends through this because I'm having difficulty obtaining a poly-friendly counselor/therapist where I live. I hope this forum can give me some advice and help me and my relationship.
P.S. So far, we've learned a lot about communication and our romance and sex life is definitely the best it's ever been. So that's a plus?

 

[Leetah]

Hi and welcome Unsure Newbie. There are other former Mormons here, Kevin, our friendly greeter for one, so there are people who can really get your background. Your heartache and struggle are also familiar to most of us.

Changing a mental paradigm is hard and painful, it has been for me at least. I have been working on it for over 2 years and am not quite there despite being the one who fell in love with someone in addition to my husband.

Since you have read everything you can get your hands on I imagine you have seen all the usual advice. I have just kept on keeping on and it has become more comfortable over time. I used to regularly curse the fates for turning my life into some After School Special about being mature and open to change. Stupid Fates.

It sounds like your husband did not start things out in the most helpful way and that certainly could make the forced paradigm shift more difficult.

Keep reading here as there are so many people's experiences to give you perspective and consolation.

Leetah

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you struggle and feel overwhelmed.

Without too many details to try and keep this short, my husband of 7 years recently decided (?) he was polyamorous AFTER seeking out another relationship in the name of our "open relationship"; which was not necessarily mutual but that's a whole other conversation.

For people to understand what you are coming from so they can give you suggestions? Which are you having to do at this point in time?

1) Recover from cheating affair + consider Open marriage/poly stuff?

2) Consider Open marriage/poly stuff?

3) Something else?​

I don't know if this helps with the counselor search any....

http://polyfriendly.org/index.php

https://ncsfreedom.org/images/stories/pdfs/KAP/2010_poly_web.pdf <-- if you go to a "regular" counselor who is willing to try

Or perhaps try a counselor who will talk to you over phone or skype or similar?

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hi UnsureNewbie,

It sounds to me like you are not entirely consenting to the relationship between your husband and this other person, and perhaps not even to the original open situation. Perhaps your husband is rushing you through things, acting too fast for you to even get a chance to know whether you consent. If that's true, then that is uncool on his part. Have you talked with him about it? If so, what all was said?

I hope we can help.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Bluebird]

I think a good way to go about things is to slow way down, and read the book, More Than Two. Even better if you can get your partner(s) to read it as well, at the same time. There are questions at the end of each chapter that you can come together and discuss, and they should help you clarify and communicate better.

Good luck!

Also, you've posted this in the journal and blog section - not sure if that was your intention?

 

[UnsureNewbie]

Thanks for the replies all.
I guess I'll address the questions.
First-I am new and didn't realize where I posted, so totally not my intention..sorry! Should I move it? If so, how do I do that?

I can give the backstory to this if it's helpful but will try my best not to be long-winded.
My husband and I were both virgins when we met and so neither one of us has slept with anyone else. We married because it felt like the right thing to do. Throughout our marriage, we've both struggled with depression. I struggled while on birth control and thankfully and luckily for me, I figured out the cause with no help from my doctor who told me I was fine and to just exercise and I'd feel better, I stopped using it and am now returning to my normal, pre-married high sex drive. My husband only recently sought help for his depression .. and here's where the story really starts I guess.
We've had conversations before about opening up and some of his bitterness toward the LDS church for not having had sex in other relationships but he never, out loud, said it seriously as something he couldn't live without.
In March of this year, while on vacation in Mexico, my husband had a breakdown and told me he needed to have sex with other people and since I was in a foreign country without anyone else around and because I felt like a horrible human being, I said yes. . and he began to have an anxiety attack (this hadn't ever happened before) when I asked if he even wanted to be married to me anymore; it felt like the worst vacation ever.
When we got home, I naively said I didn't want to hear about any of his sexcapades as I tried to work on making peace with it and thought we'd talk more about it but we both really didn't talk about it more. Fast forward to May, he approached me and said he was polyamorous and he'd fallen in love with someone and planned on having a relationship with her; he met her through an struggling/post-mormon group we are a part of on Facebook. I felt blindsided and betrayed, it didn't feel like I'd agreed to it.
Throughout the past few months, I've read everything I could and I originally asked him to slow down for me so I could catch up and maybe we could actually learn about polyamory together. He agreed. Well.. since again, we are so naive we didn't talk too much about it more and then August long weekend I asked him about the fall and plans we might have and he said, "well I'm going to visit H. You knew that.". I was angry that I once again didn't think we'd talked about it.. but this is also my fault.. not just his. We have realized this.
I see all the mistakes we've made and that weekend was SO difficult. We just about called it quits a few times through conversation but the end result was that he actually decided he wanted to work on us and take a step back. We bought "Opening Up" and are reading it together and I've been obsessively on More than Two reading all the posts and now I've come here. We live in a small city in Canada where there are basically no therapists and we're working on getting one in a different city but rules with insurance are a little complicated so.. that's totally another thing.
I'm really apprehensive of this other person and through a lot of self-reflection have realized it's not just jealousy.. she actually might not be a good idea. She's also an ex-mormon who just got out of a toxic, abusive marriage that struggles with ptsd, and dissociative amnesia from a sports injury and has 3 children. I'm just really not sure opening up to her was the best idea. I tried to approach her to meet as I'm working through all this and felt ready and it totally went south with her and it was NOT a good experience.
I guess I'm just hoping people can offer their perspective on things and offer some advice. I don't want to just throw my husband under the bus here.. he decided to stay and I decided I wanted to stay and that feels better than obligation. We've been having some of the best romance ever in the last couple weeks and it feels so different in a new, wonderful way. I'm just confused about how you know if you're poly or mono and how do you figure it out? I've always subscribed to monogamy because I honestly didn't know there was another way so this deconstruction, reprogramming stuff is really really difficult. I don't want to focus too much on the past other than trying to see where we went wrong and move forward. I don't want to be angry. Anger is so toxic to my life and it doesn't help me see clearly. I want to do this with both eyes open. I am banking on the experience of others here and hope to make some lasting friendships.

 

[UnsureNewbie]

I just wanted to add that I don't know if I even consented willingly. I think in Mexico, I said yes to hold my marriage together and it wasn't the time or place to have that discussion; I felt so alone.
I definitely didn't feel like I consented to the relationship because it wasn't even discussed that he'd be seeking that out. He and she have both said they didn't intentionally go looking for romance but honestly, out of everything, I feel really bitter about that sentiment. I get it in some ways but not others.
Anyway.. after our big fight, I do feel like I could've walked away, even though we are so entangled after 7 years together and so things do feel a lot more full of intent, not habit. We made some agreements during that weekend about working on our relationship and he's actually fully stepped back as just being friends with her and weirdly enough I do believe him. Hopefully this helps with the whole consent thing.

 

[GalaGirl]

Than you for more info.

These things stick out to me.

I don't know if I even consented willingly. I think in Mexico, I said yes to hold my marriage together and it wasn't the time or place to have that discussion; I felt so alone.

Sounds like you felt railroaded or blindsided into it.

1) Is "holding the marriage together" more important than "doing what is healthiest for the people?"

2 ) Are you conflict avoidant? And would rather say “yes” to whatever to make it go away. Rather than say “No, not at this time” or “No. I need more time to think” and risk keeping the conflict going, even if to problem solve it better?

I see that he was falling apart and having a panic attack or something. But why agree to things rather than say "You need health care. This is upsetting you. We can talk later. Right now, let's just be calm and see about health care." Maybe you also panicked. But once home you could have brought it up. Like "Hey... I want to talk. I said some things in panic mode. I feel differently now that things are calmer and we are home again."

The rest of your stuff with “not talking” seems to be avoiding conversation/true conflict resolution. Which you eventually learned just made things worse. Blue comments are mine:

• March-April is 2017: When we got home, I naively said I didn't want to hear about any of his sexcapades as I tried to work on making peace with it and thought we'd talk more about it but we both really didn't talk about it more. (<--- You guys seem to "kinda sorta" agree to a DADT model for outside sex only. Without actually agreeing. More like passively agreeing or floating along into it. )

• May 2017: he approached me and said he was polyamorous and he'd fallen in love with someone and planned on having a relationship with her; he met her through an struggling/post-mormon group we are a part of on Facebook. I felt blindsided and betrayed, it didn't feel like I'd agreed to it. I definitely didn't feel like I consented to the relationship because it wasn't even discussed that he'd be seeking that out. (<---You had agreed to sex share on the side, not love share AND sex share. Was this bait and switch? She was waiting in the wings all along?)

• she actually might not be a good idea. She's also an ex-mormon who just got out of a toxic, abusive marriage that struggles with ptsd, and dissociative amnesia from a sports injury and has 3 children. (<--The person he picks sounds unhealthy. So you are not sure on his judgement.)
  

• Aug 2017: You ask him to slow down. He agrees. Then August long weekend I asked him about the fall and plans we might have and he said, "well I'm going to visit H. You knew that." I was angry that I once again didn't think we'd talked about it. (<--So he did not slow anything down. He made plans to vacation with her. But both realize communication is weak at this point.)

At this point in time it sounds like you have some unclear consent, some broken agreements (that are not made assertively, but only "kinda sorta" agreed), you don't trust his judgement in picking out healthy people to date, there is not a clear relationship model you are practicing together, and you have bad communication.

That's a lot of muddy waters. This adds up to "awesome polyshipping for me to be in at this time" HOW?

We just about called it quits a few times through conversation

I do feel like I could've walked away, even though we are so entangled after 7 years together

Why do you stay in the thick of it? Rather than separate so you are NOT in the thick of it? Not necessarily leap to divorce. But get some space in there so you can have a time out and time to think clearly.

Is that his goal? Keep you off balance between new crazy and wooing you so you keep going along for the ride from conflict avoidance and not wanting to make waves? Rather than you get a chance at clarity?

I'm not saying he is doing this... but things have been so weird you could step back to consider covert agendas. Esp if it turns out she was waiting in the wings all along even before Mexico.

I guess I'm just hoping people can offer their perspective on things and offer some advice.

This is too much drama for me.

I'd take a time out and get some space in there. So I can find some clarity before doing anything new. I would not leap to divorce on impulse. But I also would not agree to new polyshipping on impulse. I would want a time out, time to think. I would SLOW IT DOWN.

I don't want to just throw my husband under the bus here.

Do you think “doing what I need to be healthy” is "throwing my husband under the bus?" How about you let him deal with his health. And you with yours?

What do YOU need to be healthy here?

he decided to stay and I decided I wanted to stay and that feels better than obligation.

I get that you both want to work on the things. But do you have to live together to do it?

You seem to need a break from each other. Could live apart for 6 mos, still married. Date each other if you want.

But then each of you can be apart to do your soul searching and deep thinking from a place of calm. Then at the end of the 6 mos talk again about whether or not you want to continue the marriage or not.

In that separation/trial period time? You get to see if he actually makes good on these new agreements/promises he's making now. While also experiencing a taste of life on your own. So when the talk comes, you can pick what you want from a clearer head.

We've been having some of the best romance ever in the last couple weeks and it feels so different in a new, wonderful way.

Pleasant perhaps. But neither here nor there in solving the marriage problems.

Did he break up with the woman? Or is that still going on?

I'm just confused about how you know if you're poly or mono and how do you figure it out?

Check the ones that apply to you today. May or may not change over time... but what applies to you today?

• I am monoamorous. I want to love only one sweetie.

• I am polyamorous. I want to love more than one sweetie.

• I am monogamous. I feel happiest in a relationship shape that is 1:1 – me and my sweetie and no other people.

• I am relationship shape flexible.
  • I am monoamorous. I am ok being monogamous or being like an endpoint in a V thing or similar.
  • I am polyamorous. If my partner talks to me about my poly thoughts and feelings, and I have poly friends, that feels “open enough” to me. So I am willing to be in a Closed relationship shape and not date others so it feels “closed enough” to my partner. We meet in the middle.

• I am polygamous. Whether a a V, or a quad or a poly network – I feel happiest in a relationship shape that is more than 1 other person.

I don't want to be angry. Anger is so toxic to my life and it doesn't help me see clearly.

What are you angry about? Healthy anger can help you make constructive changes in your life.

I am going to guess you are angry about him cheating on agreements.

Skip Mexico. That was muddled consent.... but you did agree to DADT outside sex. That was the new agreement. Fine.

Then he started up a poly relationship. You did NOT agree to that. So he cheated on his agreements.

I'd be leery of making new agreements with him. How will you know he will keep those?

I'd also be leery of ME making new long term agreements if I've spent the last few months all discombobulated.

I would say "No. I will not make any new long term agreements while I am impaired. I will only make agreements month by month. "

I want to do this with both eyes open. I am banking on the experience of others here and hope to make some lasting friendships.

I guess I wonder why you guys want to be under one roof while you sort this stuff out. Could take this as a chance to live separately, still be married, even date each other. While figuring this out. But then you also get breaks from each other to do your hard thinking and soul searching. And not be making emotional decisions like in Mexico. Or while full of recent lovey-dovey because he decided to court you again. But have calm times when you are on your own and not "under the influence" of anything.

Right now it reads like every few months BOOM! Another thing! So you really don't sound like you have a good long block of peace and quiet. Instead of endless emotional roller coaster.

And now you sound like maybe you are overconsuming poly resources. Like "argh... avoid this!" to "Argh. Cannot avoid! Ok, hurry up and get it over with then!" One extreme to the other.

Both virigins when you married and all... is it terrible to live apart and see what life on your own would be life? Slow all this DOWN? To make sure you STILL want to be together? Maybe you have outgrown each other. But cling on to the marriage because it's the only thing you've known? And it's like the security blanket woobie you want to cling to while facing the "strange poly stuff?"

When really... maybe that's the thing you could focus on FIRST. Because if you guys no longer work together as a couple? Doing poly adjustment work is putting cart before horse.

I'm not trying to be a wet blanket. Just saying... Proceed with caution and really think about what is healthiest for YOU.

Are you doing all this just to keep the marriage going?

Or because poly is something you want for yourself? If this wasn't all happening... would you still pick poly out?

Galagirl

 

[Magdlyn]

A mod can move your thread. Click on the red exclamation point in the upper right of your OP, and tell a mod you want it moved to Relationships in the box that pops up.

 

[UnsureNewbie]

Ok, thanks for responding. I did ask mod to move the post; sorry about posting incorrectly. I should have paid closer attention.

Alright, GalaGirl: Thank you so much for taking the time to write so much. I'll admit that I'm not great with words and possibly have not explained events well or in a proper order and things get jumbled.. my apologies.
I just wanted to say that I think even though what you have to say comes across to me as blunt, I'm glad you've said them. That type of honesty is something I find refreshing and I appreciate it.

One thing you seemed to ask more than once was why I stay and why I don't go elsewhere and not live together while we figure this out and although I think there is value in that perspective, I don't necessarily think it makes sense for our situation. I don't mean to say that we've been at each others throats or things have been horrific because we haven't been in any yelling matches and we still manage to hug at the end of every conversation.. I might not have done a very good job at relaying this but we've actually made a lot of progress in terms of focusing on each other and trying to make us good before welcoming in anyone.. since obviously we've done a shitty job at discussing boundaries and expectations. He actually has stepped back from this exterior relationship and they are not "in a relationship" currently and definitely aren't talking as much; I know this because he's spending free time with me or working on himself and his projects. One of our agreements was to figure ourselves out and in turn work on our relationship; so far, so good. This is part of the reason I'm here. I was looking for advice on how to move forward.
I get that I should've, could've or would've done or said something differently if I'd only been thinking differently and I've made a lot of mistakes and wasn't always clear headed enough to say "lets talk about this later". I can't go back and change that. I can only learn from my mistakes and make an attempt to move forward with new information. Which leads me to say that once I started learning about relationship boundaries, I did ask him to step back and he has.
I haven't claimed we've done any of this right and was more trying to explain why I was feeling unsure and overwhelmed.
I know this person he fell in love with wasn't always waiting on the sidelines because neither one of us knew who she was until mid April.. so I trust that completely.
TBH I don't really get the whole idea of being apart to work on our marriage?

 

[UnsureNewbie]

Just to add: I realize there is a lot of value in your response, GalaGirl. I"m going to take more time to read it over and ask myself these questions. I've just re-read it and some stuff resonated so, thanks again.

 

[GalaGirl]

Glad it was somewhat helpful as a different POV.

I haven't claimed we've done any of this right and was more trying to explain why I was feeling unsure and overwhelmed.

Understandable that you feel that way. It's been a lot of emotional roller coaster this year.

What I'm trying to tell you is that it is ok to take a step back and SLOW DOWN. Even slower than you already are.

Before you leap into doing poly adjustment work, assess if you are still compatible for marriage.

If taking time apart doesn't work for you as an idea? It doesn't work. You don't have to do it.

If 6 mos is too much time? Consider time apart for a week, a month. Feel free to adjust it.

I don't mean to say that we've been at each others throats or things have been horrific because we haven't been in any yelling matches and we still manage to hug at the end of every conversation

Not saying you are at each other's throats. I'm saying maybe a time out apart could help.

Over here I take vacations alone periodically and leave DH with the kids. They all miss me. I miss them. DH takes time away also. Nobody is going at it hammer and tongs over here.

Part of how we maintain a healthy relationship is having time apart and on our own. Even weekly -- there are nights that are mine and nights that are his. I go out with friends, he's in a band. There needs to be "me time." Our marriage isn't "a couple, sealed for life." It is me on my own, him on his own, us as a couple, us as coparents... many layers of relationship. Each layer needs time and attention and nurture. The overall marriage relationship isn't going to be healthy if one of the "mini layers" inside it is going awry or unattended.

Sometimes if people are together all the time, they start taking each other for granted and no longer appreciate each other. Being enmeshed or "joined at the hip" while encouraged as "romantic" by books, movies and TV? Isn't necessarily healthy.

You may want to think about what marriage means to you. Sounds like you are doing deep thinking about your religious faith as well -- it's a lot of stuff to process. It's OK to take the time to do it.

Which leads me to say that once I started learning about relationship boundaries, I did ask him to step back and he has.

To me? You made a "request." He agreed to do it. Stepping back is a first step. There's the rest of of the work to do -- healing from being blindsided/betrayal.

To me? "Boundaries" are something you set up for YOU to do. Not other people. To help keep you safe.

If I have a boundary of "I do not lend my things to careless people" and you borrow my mower and break it? Do not apologize or offer to repair/replace? If you come looking to borrow my vac I am going to obey my boundary.

I am going to tell you no, you may not borrow it. Because I want to be safe from any new shenanigans. You do not have to respect my boundaries. I do.

Perhaps that example helps you think about your personal boundaries in a different way.

But remember to take breaks and REST too. You don't have to have all this done and solved tomorrow morning, ok? You also have to be living regular life.

Hang in there.
Galagirl

 

[lunabunny]

Hi

Let me just put my cynical hat on for a second here.

We've had conversations before about opening up and some of his bitterness toward the LDS church for not having had sex in other relationships but he never, out loud, said it seriously as something he couldn't live without.


my husband had a breakdown and told me he needed to have sex with other people and since I was in a foreign country without anyone else around and because I felt like a horrible human being, I said yes


he began to have an anxiety attack (this hadn't ever happened before) when I asked if he even wanted to be married to me anymore


When we got home, I naively said I didn't want to hear about any of his sexcapades as I tried to work on making peace with it and thought we'd talk more about it but we both really didn't talk about it more.



Fast forward to May, he approached me and said he was polyamorous and he'd fallen in love with someone and planned on having a relationship with her; he met her through an struggling/post-mormon group we are a part of on Facebook. I felt blindsided and betrayed, it didn't feel like I'd agreed to it.


I originally asked him to slow down for me so I could catch up and maybe we could actually learn about polyamory together. He agreed. (...) we didn't talk too much about it more


then August long weekend (...) he said, "well I'm going to visit H. You knew that.". I was angry that I once again didn't think we'd talked about it.. but this is also my fault.. not just his. We have realized this.

You've said you previously discussed opening up the marriage as a general topic but didn't think sex with others was something your husband couldn't live without.

Then all of a sudden, while on vacation in a distant location without any trusted person around for support, your husband has a breakdown/anxiety attack - something that had never happened before, according to you - and basically you yourself panicked and felt you had no option but to agree, or give in, in order to hold both your marriage and HIM together in the moment. Understandably, perhaps.

This all happened in March of this year... and you claim neither of you knew of this other ex-Mormon love interest's existence till April... yet by May, he has not only fallen in love with her, but they've discussed starting a relationship, even though you and he had NOT talked about all this further.

What's more, although he agreed to slow down, he didn't, and instead went ahead and made holiday plans with his new lover/love interest without consulting you, saying, "you knew that". DID you??

YOU say "I once again didn't think we'd talked about it", and also say, "this is also my fault... not just his".

Well, which is it? Did you or didn't you guys discuss your husband's plans to go visit with this other woman? If you're pretty clear he did NOT mention it beforehand, it almost sounds like he might've been--- I am loath to use the overworked term "gaslighting" here---- but in all honesty some of this smacks as classic manipulation tactics on his part. :/

How is it also your fault that you didn't know he was involved to this extent with someone else already, not to mention making plans for a holiday you would presumably spend together under normal circumstances.

The time frames also seem a little too convenient... i.e. he talks about opening the marriage, has an unprecedented breakdown while you are isolated from family and friends, essentially forcing your hand so that you consent under duress to something you're not happy with. Then all of a sudden he has this woman lined up less than a month later... they're in love... and planning a relationship.

Forgive me for playing devil's advocate here, and I admit I could be totally off base, but it just seems like there is a possibility that some of this was premeditated on his part.

We live in a small city in Canada where there are basically no therapists and we're working on getting one in a different city but rules with insurance are a little complicated so.. that's totally another thing.

I can empathise with your plight in this regard as I am in a similar situation right now, albeit in a different country.

After locating a reputable therapist who specialises in issues pertaining to consensual non monogamy, infidelity, marriage breakdown/separation and the like, I approached her about the possibility of conducting sessions via phone or Skype. She liaises with several clients in this fashion and so far I am happy with her service and our rapport. I understand that this might be difficult for you depending on individual logistics, finances and the laws relating to health insurance in your country.

I'm really apprehensive of this other person and through a lot of self-reflection have realized it's not just jealousy.. She's also an ex-mormon who just got out of a toxic, abusive marriage that struggles with ptsd, and dissociative amnesia

I tried to approach her to meet as I'm working through all this and felt ready and it totally went south with her and it was NOT a good experience.

What is your husband's take on the fact that his lover was difficult to deal with? Do you think she intentionally sabotaged your meeting (by refusing to meet you, answer your questions/reassure you, or for some other reason - you don't specify what the actual problem was)...?

It's understandable in a way that they bonded over their residual issues with the Mormon Church. (Coincidentally, one of my exes married and later divorced someone from the LDS, over religious incompatibility... and my estranged husband of 20+ years was engaged to someone from the church, just before we got together, but ultimately decided against going through with it.)

Maybe they are both in a similar place when it comes to wanting to explore/experiment with their sexuality as individual autonomous beings, after feeling that this side of themselves was repressed during puberty and early adulthood. It may be a case of "getting it out of his/their system", however, I can understand why you have doubts about this woman's mental stability and how that might impact on your husband's already fragile/depressed state, and hence impact yours/his relationship negatively (in addition to the stress already created by opening up).

 

[dragonette]

I agree with Lunabunny that the back-and-forth about his trip with his new sweetie sounds like gaslighting. In my experience as the new sweetie (to a guy who is married, and whose discussions with his wife were initially a little unclear about what being "open" meant to them), going away together is something that we both understood would be a very big deal to his wife. We didn't even bring it up until she had found someone else and gone away for the weekend with him. Once we did bring it up, my guy had several conversations with his wife about it before committing to me on it.

It sounds like either your husband didn't tell you at all, or he told you at a time when he could tell you were distracted, so you'd not really process and would just go "uh huh," and he could later say "but I told you." If so, that is not on you.

This is not something you tell, at least at this stage of opening up. It's something you negotiate. "Honey, how would you feel if I...." You express your concerns. "I'm not ready for you to get that serious / I don't know what I'll do that holiday weekend" etc. Maybe he ends up doing it anyway despite your concerns, but it should be a big discussion, because it's a big change in your relationship. He should at least be asking how you feel and giving it a lot of weight.

It's nice that he agreed to step back from the other relationship when you asked, but in a healthy dynamic he'd be talking to you before/as things progressed, not after. That's also more fair to her; it sucks to think you're free to explore a relationship and then have that relationship treated as disposable.

I understand why you wanted him to slow down with her and let you catch up. It's nice that he agreed. But that's for now. Longer term, he wants to be poly, or at least able to sleep with others, and you may not. If and when he starts dating again, I'd suggest that you focus on the timeliness of his communication and his willingness to solicit and value your input on changes in your relationship, rather than manipulating you or making unilateral decisions. If he can't do that well, then even if poly is something you could handle under the right circumstances, you're probably not going to be happy with it with him.

 

[UnsureNewbie]

Thanks for your replies.
Like I said before, it's possible that I'm not doing a very good job at explaining things very well.

- I DEFINITELY do not think my husband intended to have a panic attack. Not at all. I don't think you can intend those kinds of things. The panic attack happened as he was telling me of his desire to have sex with other people and requiring it and then as I asked him if he still wanted to be in a relationship with me; (I thought I had mentioned this before, sorry if I hadn't). Also, the panic attack lead him to actually talk to a doctor so no, I don't think he meant that to happen. It should also be mentioned that he's apologized profusely for putting me in that circumstance where I felt coerced. He feels horrible about it.
- Also, I definitely do not think his outside relationship was pre-meditated. Like I've said, I was aware of when they met online. I don't see how it would've been possible before that considering neither one of us knew her until we started participating in this fb group.
-We did discuss him going to meet her in person at some point when he mentioned he first disclosed he was polyamorous but I asked if we could approach it later, perhaps in 6 months, which would push into October. I didn't stipulate my boundary well enough and there was confusion on what we were actually agreeing to and he interpreted it as I'd be okay with him going to see her in October. That is why I felt blindsided and why he was upset because we thought we understood each other and we didn't.
- I'm becoming very aware through this conversation of my poor communication skills individually and within my relationship. You all seem to be very skilled at communicating and I hope I can use this as a means to learn.
- Recently (as in the last couple days) we were able to sit down and I was actually able to voice (I'm a crier so it feels like an accomplishment to not bawl when I'm trying to express myself) how I felt concerned over the relationship not just due to jealousy but because of a, b, c, d, e etc and how I was feeling overall. He was completely honest with me about his feelings and how things were going for him too. We were able to really, deeply talk about our relationship and communication needs and what happened throughout the past year and I think it's been to our benefit and especially to mine. I have been able to say what I need to and he's actually listened and we are really making an effort to do this properly.
- I have been trying to manage this deconstruction process of realizing that polyamory even exists and people are successful with it and it is extremely difficult as someone who prescribed to only knowing of monogamy for my life. This combined with everything is really what is overwhelming.
- My apologies that I haven't been the best at telling my story.

 

[GalaGirl]

FWIW, I think you are telling your story fine. You are just sorting some stuff out for yourself. It's ok to ask for other POV to help with that. Some suggestions will apply, some won't. You seem to take feedback just fine.

Maybe just a little bit hard on yourself when you don't have to be?

It's ok to take up the space you do in this world. You don't have to apologize for being a person in a rough patch right now. Things happen in Life.

Maybe you could look at this time as just "identify areas to work on." Not try to string them together in order like "I will do this area first, that area second." Or try to figure out WHO is responsible for doing that thing -- him, you, both together, etc.

Just take it nice and easy and simply list some areas in no order.

I'm glad he got health care. Is he in the habit of bottling things up/gunnysacking in his communication? So he finally "burst" from the stress of holding so much in? If so, that could be on the list of areas to work on: Learn not to bottle up/gunnysack.

Ok, it wasn't premeditated. Just was an unexpected game changer. So... how to handle it if one of you meets a game changer again? That's another area.

Some communication snafu seems to be an area. I would suggest you go "Ok. Now repeat what I just said in your own words so I know you got it like I mean it." If both of you started doing that, perhaps it would reduce some of miscommunication.

Your ability to speak up could be an area. Nothing wrong with being a crier. Emotional flooding can sometimes happen. But if you get overwhelmed with crying and it makes you lose your place in the conversation? Perhaps go in to the conversation with a list. To help you remember to cover everything. Or talk over email to start with and then face to face. Could remember that it is ok to table the discussion. Knock out 1-2 things, and save the rest for next time so nobody gets exhausted doing a HUGE list of things. Some things require more than 1 conversation to get through.

Over here DH and I call those "deep chair" meetings. There's the daily stuff like what's for dinner and are the kids ok. But to help us meet larger goals and not lose sight of them, we try to talk once a month or every few months. I just keep the list of topics in the Google Calendar description box. So we look at it, knock out what we can, then leave the rest on there so the next time it is a "deep chair" talk the topics are already on there.

Learning polyamory exists and that other people practice that model? Well, that is a thing. Trying to decide if it is a model YOU want to practice? That is another thing. Right now could just write it down as two separate areas to think about. But not go INTO yet. "How do I feel about polyamory existing?" and "Do I even want to poly?"

Could slow down, and just "identify and collect all the areas" for now.

Maybe that could lessen the feeling of being overwhelmed and take the pressure off?

Like you don't have to DO anything big right now.

Just make a little list of areas. Later on you can organize them and do stuff with them, but right now? The only little job is to write them down as you notice them come up.

Then it isn't so stressful on you guys.

Galagirl

 

[lunabunny]

UnsureNewbie, no need to apologise. You DID explain your version of the story clearly enough. It's just that I spotted a number of potential red flags within it, that made me decide to play devil's advocate, if you will, and ask some hard questions to make you seriously consider whether or not it's possible that you were not only being rushed into something you were not ready for, but rather: (a.) whether or not you were in possession of the full facts at the time you tentatively agreed to certain things, or (b) whether your husband was deliberately using muddled communication and/or his health crisis to guilt/coerce/manipulate you into going along despite grave misgivings.

It's is why I said I was loath to use the harsher term gaslighting, as this would imply a great degree of forethought and is loaded with negative connotations regarding someone's innate personality... in which case your relationship would have bigger issues than polyamory.

It is heartening to know that is not the case, and that your husband DID try to make you aware of most of the facts before or as they were happening, but that poor communication/misinterpretation on both your parts (and perhaps fear/anxiety and conflict avoidance) were mostly to blame for what went wrong. As you seem to realise, these areas need work - especially if you decide you're willing to explore polyamorous relationships further - and I'm glad to hear that you are BOTH willing to go there.

It sounds like... he told you at a time when he could tell you were distracted, so you'd not really process and would just go "uh huh," and he could later say "but I told you." If so, that is not on you.

This is not something you tell, at least at this stage of opening up. It's something you negotiate.

It's nice that he agreed to step back from the other relationship when you asked, but in a healthy dynamic he'd be talking to you before/as things progressed, not after.


That's also more fair to her; it sucks to think you're free to explore a relationship and then have that relationship treated as disposable.

If and when he starts dating again, I'd suggest that you focus on the timeliness of his communication and his willingness to solicit and value your input on changes in your relationship, rather than manipulating you or making unilateral decisions.

Dragonette makes some great points about communicating clearly and with intent, above. As the partner who wishes to open up relationship, it's especially necessary that your husband accept that he bears a large part of the responsibility for communicating his desires, intentions, current situation and future plans. That means no vague "oh, I thought you knew", or "didn't I already tell you that".

Having said that, it is also imperative that both of you learn how to really LISTEN rather than simply hear what is being said, so that you can retain the information and process it with a view to asking clarifying questions, either on the spot or at a later date - relevant since you are a crier and you both sound highly emotional.

GalaGirl has some great words of wisdom on the above subjects, as well as some practical tips that I KNOW from experience DO work (using lists, email, text, calendars etc.)

I DEFINITELY do not think my husband intended to have a panic attack. Not at all. I don't think you can intend those kinds of things. The panic attack happened as he was telling me of his desire to have sex with other people and requiring it and then as I asked him if he still wanted to be in a relationship with me; (I thought I had mentioned this before, sorry if I hadn't).

he's apologized profusely for putting me in that circumstance where I felt coerced. He feels horrible about it.

Also, I definitely do not think his outside relationship was pre-meditated. Like I've said, I was aware of when they met online.

You did mention the context in which he had the anxiety attack and the rest, yes. I didn't mean to imply he "faked" the panic attack itself. (As someone who also suffers from these, I understand how that goes.)

You did however used the word I HAD been trying to think of, which is "coerced". I HAD been wondering if perhaps your husband used this unfortunate and emotionally fraught occurrence to (a.) unload/vent all his pent up desires that under "normal" circumstances would be unspeakable (as GalaGirl says), and/or (b.) coerce you to agree to something you find disagreeable... because as a loving spouse your first instinct would be to calm him and get him to a safe emotional place.

It is possible for we complex, fallible humans to operate with half-formed goals in mind while not necessarily planning out the whole script on a conscious level. In any case, I am glad to hear that you have no doubts about your husband's basic integrity and willingness to tell the truth and share his thoughts with you; hard as some of it is to hear.

I have been trying to manage this deconstruction process of realizing that polyamory even exists and people are successful with it and it is extremely difficult as someone who prescribed to only knowing of monogamy for my life. This combined with everything is really what is overwhelming.

My apologies that I haven't been the best at telling my story.

It might not sound like it, but I sure can empathise with your "deconstruction process" and the struggles you're facing as you come to terms with the idea of living a poly lifestyle after decades of monogamy.

I more or less "fell into" polyamory myself, when relationship difficulties caused me to develop an emotional attachment to a friend I'd been confiding in, and she reciprocated. NEVER in life had I sought out a non-mono lifestyle, and it has taken some time to even identify myself as someone who's "poly". In the end, I realised I cannot hide away in secret and pretend the facts are not what they are.

I'm glad he got health care.

Is he in the habit of bottling things up/gunnysacking in his communication? So he finally "burst" from the stress of holding so much in? If so, that could be on the list of areas to work on: Learn not to bottle up/gunnysack.

Ok, it wasn't premeditated. Just was an unexpected game changer. So... how to handle it if one of you meets a game changer again? That's another area.

I would suggest you go "Ok. Now repeat what I just said in your own words so I know you got it like I mean it."

UnsureNewbie: These are all valuable questions/suggestions. ^^^

Nothing wrong with being a crier. Emotional flooding can sometimes happen. But if you get overwhelmed with crying and it makes you lose your place in the conversation? Perhaps go in to the conversation with a list. To help you remember to cover everything. Or talk over email to start with and then face to face.

As someone who is (or was) so NOT a crier, I can attest to the validity of GalaGirl's words.

When we're in a highly emotional or volatile frame of mind, it is hard to really hear or "take in" what is being said. This is doubly true for anyone who suffers from a mental/developmental/learning disorder. People with ADHD, anxiety, autism or the like may only hear the first part, and be too busy dealing with their own anxiety/panic response, or trying to process THAT part, and so miss whatever else is said next. Verbal confirmation, clarifying questions and follow-up discussion are KEY.

As someone who displays traits associated with the Autistic Spectrum, I find it helpful to go into ANY potentially in-depth, emotionally-or-information-heavy conversation armed with a LIST of questions and/or potential discussion topics.

Not only does this help me recall what I wanted to cover, it also keeps the convo from being de-railed by tangents, and makes it easier to return to point if the whole thing devolves into a muddled mess.

 

[MockingJay]

Hey Unsure,

Sorry to hear about your struggles with communicating and with opening up your relationship.

I don't know if it helps at all, but I've been through a lot of the same types of situations with my wife in the last year. There have been times when I felt like I was being manipulated for sure, or wondered if she had planned out everything in advance to make sure she got her way.

I realized that that was not the case at all, it was just due to poor communication on both our parts. We are getting a lot better at it, but it takes practice and vulnerability to be 100% honest with your partner.

She was always afraid of telling me things that she thought might hurt me or make me ask a lot of questions. So certain details would get left out, or not explained in their entirety. This would later cause me to feel like she was hiding things, but in her mind "nope, she told me about him and X detail wasn't worth mentioning, or didn't think it would matter". But then it's a huge deal in my mind because it was "hidden" or not emphasized enough, even if it's really not an important detail.

I hope you can both learn how to make sure you communicate your feelings and fears completely and in a way that you fully understand each other. Then there should be no surprises

 

[UnsureNewbie]

Wow! Thank you all so much for your wisdom and willingness to share. It seriously is so comforting when I haven't yet reached out to any friends. . I am not close enough with any of them to feel comfortable burdening them with all this.
It is consoling to know others have had to deconstruct and have had moments of confusion because it makes me feel connected to the world.


I seriously have taken everything everyone has said and made sure I've written down the things I find resonate immediately and then to ask myself some of the hard questions. It is an exhausting but seems to be very rewarding experience.

Specifically to Mockingjay's response: where you mention that your wife was afraid to tell you things because she was afraid of hurting you..oh wow do I ever identify wiith that. My husband is too nice sometimes to the effect of not wanting to hurt my feelings because of how he feels and that's just BAD communication, which is a huge contributing factor in all of this.
I am so grateful you've all been so kind to me. I really am. I hope that I can continue to add to this conversation ongoing. I've had a really good week emotionally dealing with some of this and have some newfound confidence with everything.
Seriously, you're all amazing.