Predator Poly Couples

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Labs07

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Well from my limited perspective having not been there and not in your shoes I can say that you may need to explore the boundaries with your wife. I would also think that if you were uncomfortable with what was going on you should have told him to stop! The other guy cant read minds I'm sure of that so he was only doing what he thought was okay with all, I'm sorry that it was a negative experience for you and i can tell you that there are not that many like that around, at least I hope!
I hope that you can recover from this and move forward...you defiantly have some things to think/work out between the tow of you.
 

MeeraReed

Active member
Well. Away for a few days, and I missed a good long flame war. And after all that, I read the original Reddit post...nobody was raped.
 
Denial

The sex didn't almost tear us apart, denial did.

If we've learned one thing about this whole experience, it would be the amazing lengths we'll go to avoid seeing who we really are. My wife and I never talk about sex. We've never talked about it. We both have deep insecurities regarding it. We both made mistakes that night. We both feel sad about what happened, and we're both learning things about each other that we never knew we weren't talking about. She lied about having other lovers before we were together and never told me, all these years, that I was only the second man she'd ever been with. I'd never told her that I was a terrible lover before I met her. I slept with many women in college but I didn't even know nipples were erogenous zones; I talked the talk but couldn't walk the walk.

We've never been able to talk about sex truthfully. One of us always gets jealous or angry. And now we have this to show for it. She wanted to have sex with him. I wanted some porno fantasy where my wife sucks two dicks and gets eaten out by another chick. But she wasn't comfortable with that. Sex to her is a one on one thing. Its all she knew and I think thats all the couple was interested in, swapping. I realize now, I can't blame her for staying within her comfort zone and not making my porno dreams come true, when if I would've made sure I was comfortable with what was going on, none of this would've happened.

This is not us. It was a mistake. She doesn't want to be in a porno, but she does feel like she missed out on being with different men. She liked this guy, and took her shot while she was drunk and I was trying to make a four way. I couldn't handle the intimacy of the one on one sex they were having. Let me assure you, she is not happy with her decision. It was a drunken mistake. I am not making her feel shame, she doesn't need me to. We could have, and should have, worked this out much differently. All the defensiveness and blame are bullshit. We are in this together and we fucked things up together. Now we are fixing it together. And I'm confident we'll be stronger for it.
 
I should clear up what I mean by my "porno fantasies." When I look back at the night without blinders on I realize I tried to engage my wife while she was jerking off or sucking off the other guy on two occasions I can remember, at which point she would focus exclusively on the other woman. I even remember trying to encourage her to continue what she was doing with him before I'd arrived, to ensure her I wasn't jealous, but she resisted. The point in the night that so disturbed me was the tango sex that began without so much as my hand being held by my wife. If you read my reddit post you'd know I was ok when I was eating out my wife, she was sucking off Harry, and Sally was sucking me off. It resembled the group experience I desired. But I've also realized my wife was signaling what she was comfortable with and I have no right to be upset that she made sure she was comfortable.

Talking about sex is harder for her than it is for me now, because I've had to dull my sensitivity to oblivion to get over this, but we're convinced it will help us understand and move on. There was an odd moment yesterday when I brought up an old partner and she became upset and jealous. "Can we please stop talking about this!?" It wasn't even a flattering story, for either party. It showed just how little, or how differently, she was affected by all this. I told her, "Babe, after seeing you beg for it from another man, you could tell me your first boyfriend had the fattest dick in the world and it wouldn't phase me."

I can't really understand why she would refuse my more group oriented advances other than a gut instinct of shame. Which I can live with, but find a little unsatisfactory. Hopefully she can dig up some insight on herself regarding that issue because I'm trying my best to have these conversations without putting ideas in her head.
 

YouAreHere

Well-known member
I can't really understand why she would refuse my more group oriented advances other than a gut instinct of shame.

In your previous post, you said this:

ConfusedMonoCouple said:
Sex to her is a one on one thing.

Does there need to be more? Does the reason for this have to be shame?

Sex, to me, is intimate, and a group setting would be extremely distasteful to me unless they were ALL people I felt comfortable being intimate with. I don't really like the idea of "cuddle parties" with strangers, either. It's not shame; it's more of a forced intimacy with people I don't know (or care to know) enough to be intimate with.

Maybe she just. doesn't. want. group sex. Maybe, in trying to satisfy YOUR fantasy, she gravitated to what was more comfortable to her, which left you feeling wigged out.

She is not you. Your fantasies do not work for her. Time to find a different shared fantasy, if you choose to share the experience. Otherwise, figure out a good, honest, SAFE means of experiencing your fantasy on your own.
 
I know she's not me, but we've talked about these fantasies. I wrote out my fantasy of that night "gone right," from my perspective, as a sort of an exercise in accepting my culpability . It was much more gratuitous than what actually happened, and I'm sure we both would've felt weird after, but she said reading it made her wet. We do share this fantasy. That being said, in a sober state of mind, neither of us wish or wished to fulfill it.

You're right that I answered part of my question. Sex to her is a one on one thing, but what went on that night was not normal for either of us. So if I were to accept that as a reason it would be more like she had reached her limit on the boundaries she was going to push that night; on the fantasies she was going to make reality. Maybe her curiosity of being with another man outweighed her curiosity of group sex, I'm actually quite certain it did, and she was transfixed on that idea; but that doesn't necessarily need to be the reason she rebuffed my attempts.

My wife was extremely sexually repressed in conversation. When we first slept together she assured me she's "not that kind of girl," and that it wasn't a free ride. If we were going to do that it meant I was making a commitment to her. That was the woman I married, and she's changed over the years (obviously). I'm trying to figure out who the love of my life is in the present. Shame and sex go hand in hand in America. She comes from a religious family and there is no reason I shouldn't assume a part of her brain connected blowing two guys at once, or a dick in each hand, with something that was shameful.

Many of you seem bent on protecting her. She doesn't need it. She finally opened up about feeling like she wasn't ready for monogamy when we got married, that she feels like she missed out; I'm open to letting her explore that with other men, as long as we set up rules for how it would work out. She declined, but her concerns seemed so ernest that it might come up again.

I'm passed the point of shaming or blaming. I'm using the night as a catalyst to examine our sexuality, as suggested by my counselor. It's helping me heal and its bringing us closer together.
 
I just read through the relevant parts of this thread. You guys gave me great advice. It was EXACTLY what we needed to do and pretty much spot on with what my counselor is encouraging.

THANK YOU.

It couldn't get through to me at the time. Its embarrassing to read my defenses to phantom attacks. Thank you for continuing to try.

I haven’t been able to face or speak to Harry yet and I’m not going to push that, but I’ve talked to Sally on the phone several times. Sally’s sister is so active in the lifestyle she has a nickname. She is headmaster and host to sex parties under her pseudonym. It turns out Harry and Sally were inspired by her but had never been with another couple before, only another man. They don’t have the internet so I doubt they read the codes conscientious swingers live by regarding unprepared couples. I’m still not happy with them as Sally said they’d talked about it for months before actually going through with it, a benefit their lust was unable to grant my wife and I. Nonetheless, they were simply drunk and overexcited about their first real “swing.” I’m pretty certain they hadn’t talked about the ramifications their lifestyle might have on the couples they “have.”

I'm going to copy and paste a bit from something I wrote earlier below. Details of what lead to our current healing process.

---

We surmised that we’d been taken advantage of, that Harry and Sally meticulously rolled out a plan to get their rocks off and we had been their victims. The therapist we saw latched onto this. My wife had been raped in front of me, she said, and I recognized it, hence my terror and trauma and flashbacks. Not only that, but Harry targeted my wife because I was a sensitive and trusting man; because he could, “Do anything he wanted to her and knew you wouldn’t stop him.” I went home devastated. My wife was positively chipper and I was cramping her style. My prying and desperate attempts to reconnect climaxed with her shouting, finger pointed at me in rage, “I GOT RAPED AND YOU JUST SAT THERE AND FUCKING WATCHED!!” I smashed a lounge chair we had on our porch and threw it out into the road. It was one of two lounges we got on our wedding day. It broke my heart to return to the porch and see only one chair. I wanted so much to undo what I’d done to the chair, we loved sitting in these chairs together on the porch. I ruined it. And her. Because I didn’t just sit there and watch, I facilitated and encouraged the whole thing.

We saw a second doctor the next day, a real psychologist this time. He spent 25 minutes on my wife's rape before he brought up psychosexual trauma and flashbacks, at which point she directed his attention to me and I broke down. The next morning my wife said it wasn’t rape because, “When it was hot, it was hot.” and raised the question of a threesome with her and another woman. I put a shotgun in my mouth the next morning. My brain had never been so split in two. I honestly believed my wife had been raped and I sat back and watched, and that my wife had been unfaithful and dishonest. Both things at once, whole heartedly. There was pain coming from too many directions for me to know how to fight it or stop it. I got an emergency counseling session. The counselor assured me I wasn’t crazy and encouraged me to talk with my wife about what happened, that there was truth to be found; that there were differences between us that would answer the question of why the night had gone the way it did. It didn’t take long.

My wife admitted she was interested in Harry beforehand. She noticed him noticing her the last time we got together and played cards. The night of the foursome he’d asked for permission to enter her in a whisper, she granted it to him. I wanted to leave her then and there but I couldn’t. She was crying so hard, she said she didn’t know how much her deception was hurting me. She didn’t know what she was doing. That night I got out the shotgun, my counselor told me to get it out of the house. I emptied it, the shells popped out on the bed we’d moved into the living room for me. It spooked my wife. I thought I was okay but I laid on the couch and my wife couldn’t find me. She was blurry and I was more catatonic than I’ve ever been in my life. She was holding my face and trying to get a better angle. She started crying. “Where are you!? Where are you?! You look like an old person! DID YOU TAKE THAT BOTTLE OF ZOLOFT!?!” I didn’t. She called my name a few times then took me to my parent’s house. The next morning I told her to leave, I didn’t care where. She went to my sister’s house. I told my parents what happened. They were hurt. I went to my sisters. My wife wasn’t willing to let go of her defensiveness. The defensiveness that led me to believe I was instrumental in her rape, the defensiveness that almost killed me. But I think I drove her to it.

---

Also, many won't believe it, but I never did what I said I did in high school and college. I thought maybe claiming I did would make people relate and come forward or recognize themselves. I'm actually a very sensitive and considerate man. I despised people who did that stuff.
 

Aery

Probie
I like Marcus' on this occasion...Which tells you about me a little... Not so sure about the rest... Great apologies, Marcus. Again... I can see this guy's perhaps being a leetle freaked-out/// Again... he doesn't have a clue who/what... anything he invited...

I gather you prolly got some taste of orgiastic stuff... I wouldn't call it "predatoty".... per se... People like fuckimg/// No, this isn't necessarily about Poly.... but there's not a little instinctual, insatiable stuff to go round...I'd learn from that.. as we all have some of all that in potential in ourselves...
 
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Aery

Probie
I really can't/don't read this as a rape senerio/// She was guided by her husband...He freaked out
 
I don't think it was predatory anymore, just hurts that people we thought were friends were so inconsiderate. They're smart people. They talked about it for months first. They knew we didn't.

Its actually kind of sad now. Because we would've had that conversation in the morning, and we would've talked about things and probably done some things. The conversation my wife and I needed to have so much, and are having now, didn't have to be brought on in such a traumatizing way. We would still have our friends, and could've grown without the heartache.
 

Aery

Probie
Its actually kind of sad now. Because we would've had that conversation in the morning, and we would've talked about things and probably done some things. The conversation my wife and I needed to have so much, and are having now, didn't have to be brought on in such a traumatizing way. We would still have our friends, and could've grown without the heartache.

Why so tramatized///??? Of course it's weird to have a new experience.... but isn't your wife a wonder still? and moreso a real person? I find this whole deal and you quite sweet, actually
 
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BrigidsDaughter

New member
I disagree with the whole "but you gotta figure out how to get her to change her mind." part of Fleur's post... if they believe in monogamy, possible in swinging in the right circumstances. That's what they believe. Why does he need to change her mind? Why can't we just learn to accept people as they are, love them as they are, and let them grow naturally? Why is it that people jump on the "find a way to change" them bandwagon?
 

Flear

New member
Brigids, good point, i used the wrong words, ...

if curious wants to pursue anything with his lady that isn't so one sided, he's gotta do things differently, if he continues to do things the way he has gone about them in their relationship it's going to remain her doing what she wants and her insisting he can't, ... if he wants that to change, he's gotta change how he does things.

sorry, didn't mean to make it sound like you can force someone to think differently :(
 
Honestly, she really doesn't think it's right for her to indulge her curiously when I have no desire to sleep with other woman solo (and really the groupsex was just a drunken lust thing, I have no ideological need to do it, the way she may have a need to explore what she missed out on). I'm not sure I agree with her that its not right 100%, because we'd both be having what we wanted. But we are inexperienced and I can't shake the notion the experience would be a bit like swimming with sharks. We don't want to loose what we have.

And believe me, I do blame myself, but its not, and it wasn't my responsibility alone to prevent us from making mistakes. I take equal share but its our job, if we were going to be a monogomous couple, to communicate when something needs to change. We failed at that as a unit. She failed as a wife and I failed as husband.

Also, regarding the trauma, I think that may be something hard for poly people to relate to. My notion of who my wife was got destroyed in an instant. We've been ignoring our sex life for years and she was a conservative, one man kind of woman. The love of my life. To see her like that, beneath another man so abruptly, shook all my notions of reality. My entire concept of love and sexuality were so inextricably tied together and to her, that when I heard her say "FUCK ME. PLEASE FUCK ME." to another man, and I knew I was nowhere in her mind.. well it was like wile-e-coyote with that box of TNT. Everything I knew about sexuality exploded into nothing, and it was so interwoven with the concept of love and marriage that it took a huge chuck out of that as well.

I'm much better for it. I'll admit that. My love and faith in her is stronger now, because it doesn't have to lean on inadequette sex. I'm also a much better lover. It's as though all the jealousy and fear and pressure of sex, and that stupid feeling that she might not love me if I didn't provide it well enough, have vanished into thin air. It feels so freeing. It's amazing how my performance issues have vanished.
 
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Flear

New member
lets consider your just having a hard time writing out what really happened, ... once more write down everything that happened, just the details about the things that happened, ... no excuses about why anything was done, ... just the things that happened, what was said, ... write it in pen on paper so you can really see it

if someone else did that to your wife, what would you do to them ?

if someone else got her drunk and put her in a situation where she's getting laid by another guy while the person who put her in that situation looks on and allows it to happen.

are you going to deny you were a part of any of that ?

so write down what happened, no excuses, no justifications, write down what happened, then ask yourself, if anyone else did that to someone you know, what would you do ? what would you do if it was your wife they did that too?

and your going to try to call the pity card ? about how hard it's been on you ? or how much better you feel about your performance in the bedroom ?

or your writing some fantasy story, ... either way, grow up.

and you still don't know a thing about responsibility
 

ImaginaryIllusion

Administrator
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Closed

That's all quite enough now. It seems people are having a tough time maintaining civility in this thread.

As we don't have the time and resources to constantly monitor smoldering flame pits, this will be locked.
 
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