Question/Advice. Is it over the line?

M

malsjoh

New member
I think I may be looking to deep here or maybe I am not. I have previously posted but this is something I am seeking opinions on after many suggestions from various sources.

So long story short my wife and I are both bi. Many years ago we agreed on being open to same sex only outside partners and got into swinging a bit. We agreed on sexual relationships only no LTR just sex. It stayed that way until my wife met her GF at the beginning of the year. I agreed to her finding a girlfriend under the pretense that it would just be the thing that happened once in a while on the side, very quickly it became apparent was not the case now GF is much more than a friend. I guess I should have known better but I felt that I needed to allow my wife to explore her bi side because she had not had much luck in finding people to just play with. Now I'm stuck in a V triad, and am learning to cope.

My question comes from many people suggesting that I seek my own relationship. Therein lies the problem because of our same sex agreement.

Although I am bi I do not find myself that interested in having a deep relationship with a man. I have only ever met one guy I may consider that with but I'm sure that is not something I would be interested in with him even. And it has been suggested to me that I should find my own girlfriend, by strangers and a few people who know us personally.

So my question it is would I be out of line asking to have my own girlfriend?

I'm not even sure that is what I would want because I feel it might create problems even if I were allowed to. I don't even feel comfortable bringing it up because of our agreement same sex only. But I do feel that if the rules have changed on relationships being ok not just same sex for sex only that I am not out of line if I did ask. I just really feel that being that I have almost no interest in dating a man to see about a deeper relationship and rules changed at my wife's request and she has no interest in our original agreement any longer that I would not be in the wrong requesting permission to do so.

So any advice on this is welcome. I feel conflicted on this subject and offset because it has added a new issue to my current situation. This is by far not my only problem but I do need to get it sorted out sooner than later.
 
Last edited:
Anything that you feel like you need to ask for or request is not out of line. It's something you feel you need. You always have the right to ask.

Your wife has the right to refuse the request. At that point, if she isn't willing to consent to the idea of you finding a girlfriend, you'll have to make the choice of whether to accept that answer or seek a girlfriend anyway and take whatever consequences might arise. But until you actually speak to your wife about the idea, you have no way to know how she'll respond.
 
If she agrees to you finding are girlfriend are you going to agree that she can have a boyfriend?
 
People change over time. Agreements can also change over time.

So no, you are not out of line to ask for renegotiation on the agreements. Ask for what you would like. She is not a mind reader.

Galagirl
 
malsjoh said:
My question comes from many people suggesting that I seek my own relationship.
Click to expand...

Do you joyfully and genuinely want this or are you really seeking an additional relationship at the urging of others in an attempt to mitigate some negative feeling? I presume that you're not at peace about your wife's girlfriend because you use the word "cope." No additional relationship can "balance" or remove the troubling thoughts that you're having about your wife and her GF. Many people believe that a "balancing" relationship of their own will eradicate jealousy and insecurity, but that is always a temporary (at best) diversion.
 
Thanks for the answers.

As to the question of would I want her to have a boyfriend the answer is no I wouldn't want her to have a boyfriend any more than she has a girlfriend. I don't mind the girlfriend aspect I do mind the sharing of my wife's love and split attention. That is what has me unease. Also I don't think that she would want to have a boyfriend, she has become increasingly masculine over the last few years.

On our agreement to me it seems like it no longer matters, our agreement never included either of us falling in love with someone else and making the other share our affection with someone else. Then not being ok with the fact that one of us has become hurt by it. Basically I have to be the one to cope here and be ok with changes to our agreement after the fact.

On the coping part no I am not at peace with it. I am trying to be, but as I said I am pretty much being forced into being OK with it. I broke down and told my wife I didn't know what to do and got anger in return. It made me feel as though it was my fault and if I didn't get OK with it that it would push her away and that would be my fault. She had little concerned for my feelings and was trying to tell me that I could decide to have her leave GF but did so in a way that was highly accusatory to my being OK with her bi side. That's where the coping comes from, I fear that if I forced my hand that it will ruin us as a couple. I am pretty sure she would resnt me for it or go behind my back to continue seeing GF.

I don't know what I would hope to gain from a GF of my own. I think some desire is there to create jealousy on my wife's part and put her in my court, but there is also a desire to have the intimacy she and GF have for myself. I am not sure but I am beginning to think that I am closer to being mono than I am poly. I dread the days I have to share my wife with her GF, I was already depressed due to life events but now I am near needing medication for it.

The whole thing has just become a big mess. The only positive that has happened is I have been becoming friends with GF instead of treating her as this other person. We have so much in common it is kind of weird, but I also can see why my wife fell for her. Getting closer to her GF is what has brought me to should I get my own GF? I am in inner turmoil over all of it and really think i just want my wife back to being just mine.
 
It's too late to go back to "having your wife be" yours. Barn door is open, horse is out. Your wife is in love and is experiencing a blissful rush of hormones and emotions.

This is what is happening in her brain right now. That is why she gets so angry when you try to make her stop.

http://fusion.net/story/48571/your-brain-on-love-oxytocin-dopamine/

Also, who knows? Maybe she is getting more in touch with her lesbian side, and that is a better fit for her now than MF. Sexualities can fluctuate.

Many couples make agreements that they can each have "sex only" partners, totally ignorant of how sex works in our brains to make us "fall in love." We get couples here everyday who seem to think sex and love have nothing to do with each other. It's rather amazing.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the responses.

They were pretty much in line with my thinking already that is not a good idea. At least not at this point in time anyway.

That was what I came to when I question myself as to why I would want a girlfriend. Was all selfish reasons for the most part.
 
Hi malsjoh,

I think that everyone gets a little selfish from time to time and I don't necessarily have a problem with that. The question in this case is, Will acquiring a girlfriend help you to feel better about your wife being in love with her girlfriend? If the answer is No, then you have to figure out what other reasons you might have for acquiring a girlfriend and see if those reasons are convincing by themselves.

My initial impression in this case is that you'd be best off to let this new V (you, your wife, and her girlfriend) solidify, and give your upset feelings a chance to settle, before seeking a girlfriend of your own. Like, give it a year or at least six months. Otherwise I'd worry that adding a fourth person to the equation would stir up drama, and you guys don't need that.

Glad to hear you're getting along with your wife's girlfriend in any case.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I am glad you see that seeking a GF yourself at this point in time is just adding more people to a mess and not really the solution to bring you peace.

If you hate being in a poly V? Stop being in it. While painful, I think in the long term that may bring you the peace you seek. You wish to be free of all this.

I am beginning to think that I am closer to being mono than I am poly.
Click to expand...

I am not at peace with it. I am trying to be, but as I said I am pretty much being forced into being OK with it. I broke down and told my wife I didn't know what to do and got anger in return
Click to expand...

really think i just want my wife back to being just mine.
Click to expand...

I think you could speak your truth. If polyamory were a bus? You could say something like...

"I've tried poly on for X amount of time. I find this ride is not for me and I'm not enjoying it. I no longer wish to participate in polyamory. I lean more toward mono. So I am bowing out.

I'm not going to ask you to break up with your GF. Your choices are up to you.

I am making you aware that I need to be out of this arrangement. I'd be happy if you came with me, but if you choose to keep riding the poly bus, I cannot go with you. I have to get off this bus and stop riding this ride so I can stop feeling terrible."​

Then get off the bus. Rest, then make your next choices from there.

You each are responsible for your choices.

Galagirl
 
malsjoh said:
On our agreement to me it seems like it no longer matters, our agreement never included either of us falling in love with someone else and making the other share our affection with someone else.
Click to expand...
To be fair, no one ever 'plans' to fall in love. Did you 'plan' to fall in love with your wife? Of course not. Love 'happens' when two people--who are open to it--have the opportunity to become closer. It can happen anywhere, to anyone, at anytime.

Personally, I think your wife betrayed the agreement you had, and it's a bit of an insult that she just went ahead with things, without even attempting to sit you down and talk about how things had become more serious with this other woman. She can't be oblivious.

My advice is to sit her down--pronto--and discuss this. I'd suggest a simple approach... Ask questions, and have her answer them.

"When we agreed to open our marriage, we agreed to only sexual relationships with same-sex partners, right?"

When she acknowledges that statement, you ask...

"So do you have just a sexual relationship with (insert other woman name here)? Or is it more than that?"

If what you say is true, she will have to answer it is more than that. So then you ask something like...

"How do you think it makes me feel that you've broken your word to me? How do you think it makes me feel to know that you're in love with someone else?"

The idea is that you need to make her take responsibility for her actions here. To be honest, I think she either believes she is pulling one over on you, *or* she is in denial of what kind of relationship it is.

If it is the latter--if she seems in denial--just ask, "Do you love her?" That should clear that up pretty fast. Love wasn't part of the agreement.

Your next question should be, "So what are we going to do about this situation? You had an agreement with me and you broke it. What do we do now?"

It's *very* important that you do not not not suggest that she 'break it off' with this woman. The reason being is that the decision to do that has to come from her. It's not your place to suggest it, and if you do suggest it, then she can/will get mad at you for the suggestion--then you are the 'bad guy' when she was the one who broke your agreement.

Make sure to listen to everything she has to say, but use questions--not accusations--to get your point across. Questions are less likely to put the person on the defensive.

Is it out of line for you to get your own girlfriend? Of course it is, but not for the reason you think. It's 'wrong' because you think it will make you feel better, but it won't. As you well know, man-man relationships are never the same as woman-woman relationships. We have a crap-ton of double standard baggage and stereotypes that prevent men from attaining the same kind of 'love' from another man, like women do with other women.

However, the real reason I think you want a girlfriend is since you may feel like you are not getting enough love from your partner. If that's true, then you can talk about that too... Say something like...

"Yuno, I considered asking you if you would be okay with me having a girlfriend, but then I realized the only reason I wanted one was because I feel like I'm not getting much love in our relationship lately." (Or something like that, you see where I'm going with that. Make sure she understands that you are *not* asking for a girlfriend, but that you were thinking about it.)

Be open about how you feel, and put the burden on her to fix this. She broke the agreement, and she fell in love, so she needs to fix this. Don't tell her how to fix it, leave it up to her. If she ever says, "Well what do you expect me to do about it?" -- do **not** answer that. It's a trap question, and it makes you the bad guy. If she asks you that, just turn it around... "Don't ask me, these are your decisions to make."

Most important though, share how you feel. If you don't feel like she has treated you fairly or respectfully, then say so. If you don't feel like she has enough time for you anymore. Say so. But keep it about YOU. In other words, DO say, "I don't feel like you spend much time with me anymore." But do NOT say, "You spend too much time with her." The latter will only cause conflict. This issue involves you and your wife, so try to avoid mentioning this other woman if at all possible.

In the end, you need to do some thinking about possible outcomes. There aren't many options, and you may be asked to 'accept' a modification to your agreement that allows for your wife to have this other relationship. If she asks for that, you need to have given that some thought. If it is something that you don't think you can do, then be blunt and say so. There is no point lying and say you will 'try' to manage when you're barely coping now. (And you should tell her that too.)

I think she may be clueless about the impact the other relationship is having on you. I highly doubt she would have gone down this road if she knew what it was doing to you. So you need bare your soul and make sure she understands how she is making you feel.

Only then will she realize that her other relationship is hurting her marriage.
 
Your wife fell in love. She didn't do it to hurt you or alienate you, it is a natural outcome of her sexuality (you might not be capable of same-sex romantic attachment, but your wife is) and the fact that she was spending intimate sexual time with this person. Personally, I have never been able to do "just sex" without emotions, and if anyone asked or expected me to agree to those parameters, I'd fail badly. And if anyone tried to make me feel guilty for having unexpected emotions--though, of course, I would never agree not to feel those emotions, I'd be furious.

If she's being neglectful, spending less time with you than she did before gf, giving you less sex, less attention, less focus, you have a right to address those things. If you're just generally pissed that she's got someone else and you don't, adding some poor man or woman to your life to even things out won't end well for anyone.

I've been where your wife is--in love with a woman, but still loving my husband. Had he asked me to choose between them, I would've chosen the person who didn't try to make me choose.
 
Well said LoveBunny, although I think we can be even more general than what you posited. I don't think any relationship/marriage can survive if the 'glue' that holds it together is an ultimatum that person 'A' must do 'X' or person 'B' will leave. It could be anything. "You have to make me coffee in the morning or this marriage is over" is something that would be as successful as "you have to break up with that person or this marriage is over." Relationships based around 'threats of actions' will rarely succeed.

But I disagree in a narrow way in regard to what you were saying about being 'unable' not to fall in love with someone else. I don't think it's about saying that a person can't fall in love, but it's how they REACT to falling in love with someone else. Let's pretend that the OP is in a mono marriage and they have made no agreement to open it in any way. The wife has a male friend, and that's all it is--at first. However, somehow the wife finds herself falling in love with this male friend. She never wanted or intended it, but it happened.

Does this mean she can go back to her husband and say, "I fell in love with a friend of mine. Since it's not my fault I fell in love, I want to be able to have a relationship with him too." Somehow I don't think that's fair. The reverse wouldn't be fair if the opposite happened. In a mono relationship, the couple agrees to a relationship in which they will only 'share love' with their partner. That doesn't mean that they can't or won't fall in love with anyone else, but it *does* mean that any such newly found love will/should remain unrequited. No one can prevent the formation of feelings of love for someone else. But that person *can* and should be able to prevent themselves from acting on those feelings.

That's what is at issue here. Not that the wife fell in love, but that the wife made an agreement that she wouldn't have any relationships that weren't 'just sex'. If she found herself falling in love, she should have taken a step back and not gone any further without discussing that with her husband. She can't control her feelings, but she can control how she acts on those feelings. It doesn't matter if it is wedding vows, or a personal agreement, the bottom line is that if both partners won't respect the framework of their relationship, then the relationship is doomed to fail. Just because the wife fell in love with a woman doesn't make it any more 'right' than if the couple had said it was okay to have opposite sex partners that were 'sex only', and the wife fell in love with a man. This is what makes polyamory so challenging and so utterly brutal when things don't go the way a couple plans. I agree, you can't 'not' be in love with someone you have fallen in love with. It's not something that can be turned off. However, how a person ACTS on those feelings is something under their control--or at least it should be.

We may not be able to control our feelings, but we CAN and SHOULD be able to control our actions and behaviors. This is the point where the wife has failed her husband, in that she didn't exercise control over her actions and behaviors. She knew what she agreed to, and if she unwilling or unable abide by that agreement then she never should have made it to begin with. Otherwise, it says that anyone can make any agreement and then say, "Hey, it's love" as a means to force their partner to accept something that they never would have agreed to if they had known that this would have been the outcome. It's like saying either person in a mono marriage should be able to go poly without the consent or agreement of their partner, and all they have to do is say they are "in love" as a means to force their partner to accept this new relationship.

That doesn't seem very fair to me.

Saying "I'm in love with someone else, and if you love me you'll accept that," is just as much an ultimatum as saying, "If you love me you'll break it off with the other person you love."
 
Mal, reading your post I got a sense of discomfort. Not being at ease. I know a few couples who had the "only sex" arrangement which eventually led to a similar situation.

I hate to write this but, you don't sound poly. You sound like a monogamous person who is attempting to be poly in order to keep a relationship. This won't work. It won't work because its not compatible with what you are on the inside.

You have to figure yourself out. Don't involve another woman in the situation. Its not fair to her and its not fair to your relationship. You may end up hurting more than one.

In the end, only you can decide what you want and you have to dig deep to find the courage to decide if you are going to pursue it.
 
malsjoh said:
To prevent the current situation.

I was naive.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't go that far. I certainly wouldn't beat yourself up over this. Hey, all over the forum you'll read posts where people talk about how "communication is so important" and that "limits need to be respected" and such. In my view, you had the right idea. You and your wife agreed to open up your marriage, and--in principle--it sounds like this was about swinging than anything else. Back in the beginning I think things probably were going fine, since your wife was likely still quite reserved about it all.

Then everything changed.

I don't think you were naive. Misguided perhaps, but then again you were entering into something completely foreign to you.

To be blunt, in the end, you only have two choices. You either sit your wife down and talk about everything--coming to some kind of mutually acceptable solution--or you accept a diminished relationship with your wife. (There is always the option to end the marriage, but I don't think you want to do that--or so it seems.)

You can never solve a problem like this by bringing in another person. It's like a person thinking that the solution to a failing (monogamous) marriage is to have an affair.

The sooner you discuss this with your wife, the better. Either do that, or let your feelings about this go and make the best of a bad situation.
 
It has been discussed as I said.

The result was accusations that I didn't want her to explore her bi side, trying to make me decide on whether or not she stayed with GF(which would not be good based on how the conversation went), anger at my reaction to the situation, and a bunch of other stuff. This is why I am as I said stuck. I love my wife but I don't like the situation.

I have to get OK with it or its my fault I am unhappy basically. Either I will get better or I may need to move on in the end because I can't stay this way forever and if she wants forever with both then she can keep GF and lesson for me. I don't want that but our relationship is damaged no matter how she feels and at some point healing needs to happen. I am more upset that when she cheated on me before we got married, honestly I wish it was that because the answer would have been much easier.
 
malsjoh said:
It has been discussed as I said.
Click to expand...
It doesn't sound like you had a discussion, it sounds like she tossed a pile of accusations and ultimatums at you. I still think you should discuss it again, but in the manner that I suggested above. Ask her "do you think this is fair to me?" That's a simple question. Either she can say yes or no. If she says yes, then she clearly doesn't care about your feelings. If she says no, then it's up to HER to make this right.

Put the onus on HER to answer for her actions, instead of letting her put you on the defensive by suggesting you are trying to control her--which you are not. You had an agreement and she broke that agreement. It's that simple. Regardless of what was said after that, you haven't come to any kind of real reconciliation here.

Bottom line is that if you don't like the situation you are in, you can either... discuss it again, accept it and be miserable, or perhaps consider a trial separation. Or maybe marriage counseling.

But you can't "get ok with it"... you either ARE ok with it or you are not. If you're not ok with it, then that's not going to magically change.

There are no easy solutions here. But she's the one you need to talk to.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top