Questioning my relationship

[Arnick]

My boyfriend and I have been together for years now. For context, we are both bisexual men. We've been monogamous for most of this time, closed sexually, so purely just us.

One day, he asked me if I'd ever considered having a threesome, and I admitted to him that that was a very common fantasy for me. He leaned towards wanting to sleep with a woman, as he'd never experienced that. That sounded good to me, since I'd never been with a woman before either. This conversation evolved to it being about a friend of ours... Looking back, it seems a bit odd that "just sex" was not the initial intent, but truthfully, it seemed that both of us had a romantic interest in her. So we expressed our interest to her, and told her that if she was interested as well, to hit us up.

I don't think that it's going to work out. You see, when we'd initially discussed being poly, we'd set up some general ideas about what we'd want. We can date other people on an individual level, but we'd just like to know. "Hey I think I might like to date Brian." No need to ask for permission. We just figured we wanted a setup where everyone would be in the know. Similarly to being sexually open, we agreed to just inform the other. I'm not sure if that makes sense, but I agreed because it was hot. Like, even if I'm not involved, knowing my bf and Brian would be having a nice time, I'd likely be getting off just from knowing.

With the female friend, we'd hoped to aim for a triad situation, or at least a V, if she only liked one of us. However, in the course of it, there's been a lot of backing away from it on my bf's end. You can't really know what it's like until you're in the situation. Like, there's the idea and then there's the reality.

So, because I was wanting to become more comfortable with my sexuality and to test things somewhat, I did sexual things with our friend, not really with any strings attached to it. She hadn't said yes to either of us. I let him know first, following what we'd set in place.

I enjoyed it. A good part of my enjoyment of it was the idea that, even though he wasn't present, he'd have been like me and enjoyed himself. Yet afterwards he admitted to being really jealous. "It was like, I wish I was having sex with her. What about me?"

Jealousy seems par for the course. It just comes down to knowing how to navigate that. Like, I'd been jealous that it seemed like she hung out with him more, but instead of lamenting about them enjoying each other's company, I decided to just put it forward to her that I'd like to hang out more often. But after we had sex, he pulled back on the individual sex thing. "If there's anything like that from now on, we should just do it together, even just for now. Because I would like it if you two could do that without me getting like this." This stipulation seemed to kinda draw our friend away. Communication didn't stop and she was still interested, but I think she feared she'd caused problems between us. This kinda got us a bit antsy.

I'm ashamed of that. I don't know if I was the influence on it, or if he was, but we started behaving unhealthily towards her. During the course of this, we connected the dots that there was another guy she was interested in.

A small amount of upset I felt here was that, if she were interested in both of us, why hadn't we really hung out or done anything recently? They're not even dating; we're not even dating. So I was being stupid, like a teenage boy, at my age. I've apologized to her for my behavior and reiterated that I'm still interested in her. She's likely to say no after all this, but I'd rather she hurt me than I hurt her anymore.

My bf stated after he learned about the other guy, he was no longer interested. This was presented as from both of us. I hadn't openly disagreed at that point, because I was still caught up in being a bit upset, and I thought his being upset was similar. But when we came together to discuss it again, I'd realized nothing I was doing or saying made sense. And then he'd come at her in a very angry way, such that it even surprised me. I knew he was upset, but I didn't expect that from him. All of it really woke me up to how dumb we were being. Our friend walked away, and I chastised him for being like that, although I admitted that I wasn't guiltless either.

He's still trying to determine if he's interested in her. He does at least want to be friends again. We apologized to her and she's been a lot more forgiving than I expected, although still withdrawn. I'm expecting she's gonna say no to both of us. But again, I'd rather she tell me no vs otherwise. I'm of a mind to repair the friendship, as well. We seem to be making slow progress there.

But it's just, he's the one who approached me about being poly, and despite my initial hesitation, it seems like I'm the one realizing I've probably been kinda poly all along. Like. Years back, we had another friend that I know I had a crush on while still with my boyfriend. And now, I have another crush on a friend.

I was always open to the sex being open. There are very few people I wouldn't have sex with. I figured he'd be similar. We're both kind of horny. But he got jealous of me and our friend having had sex once. And then once we found out that she *liked* another guy, wasn't even dating him, he said he didn't want her dating anyone else but us. I wouldn't really mind her dating the other guy, if she was dating me at the same time. I'd maybe get jealous if it felt like she liked him more. But again, I'd like to learn how to deal with that.

I've just been thinking a lot. In our discussions, I brought up insecurities I'd had about things he said at the start of the relationship, like, he could only be with a guy short term. "I can fall in love with a guy, and enjoy my time with him, but I really want kids someday." And this is when we were monogamous, mind.

And yes, he still admits that there's a primal urge in him to continue his seed, to make sure he still exists in some way, even after he passes. I'd asked him: what about adoption, like we agreed to before? What if our friend doesn't want to have kids? He said he'd donate his sperm to a bank, like it would be fine if she didn't want to have his kids. But, idk... I don't think he's lying to me; I don't get that impression. But I do think maybe he's been lying to himself about what he wants, at least.

I just don't want to lose him. We're so close that even if we did break up, I'd like to go from being boyfriends to being brothers. But I just don't know how to square my new desire to explore being poly with his apparent desire to only want a lady third, and restrict it so much. I don't know how I feel about dating others just yet. I know I have feelings for both him and friend. So like, duh, I could catch feelings elsewhere. But at the moment, I can't see myself seeking out others.

But I know as far as sex, it's been on my mind a lot. Feeling more comfortable with it, I really wouldn't mind just having some casual sex with people. Maybe he could open up again, like we'd initially agreed? I don't know what to think about this.

So, if any of you who have had more experience than I have can give me advice, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Arnick,

It sounds like you have some thinking to do. If you are going to continue things with your friend, you are going to need to inform her of the additional restrictions your boyfriend wants to put on her. Above all, she'll have to know that he'd require her to give up the other guy she's interested in. There's a chance that she'll agree to these conditions, but I have to admit I don't have great hopes of it. I mean, you have to add to that the fact that you and your boyfriend have been acting weird toward her. So, she would have to accept that, as well. She can forgive you without wanting to be your partner.

But before even talking to her about these things, you have to figure out whether you yourself are willing to be in a relationship with her. Because if you are, that kind of means that you will never be able to have one-on-one sex with her. You'll only be able to have threesome sex (you, her, and your boyfriend). Is this something you'd be willing and able to accept? If not, then I suggest you not proposition her anymore.

To be honest, I can't tell if you and your boyfriend are ready for polyamory, in spite of how favorably you look on it, until it moves from theory into practice. Do some thinking before you decide.

Regards,
Kevin T.

 

[Arnick]

Hello Arnick,

It sounds like you have some thinking to do. If you are going to continue things with your friend, you are going to need to inform her of the additional restrictions your boyfriend wants to put on her. Above all, she'll have to know that he'll require her to give up the other guy she's interested in. There's a chance that she'll agree to these conditions, but I have to admit I don't have great hopes of it. I mean you have to add to that the fact that you and your boyfriend have been acting weird toward her. So she would have to accept that as well. She can forgive you without wanting to be your partner.

But before even talking to her about these things, you have to figure out whether you yourself are willing to be in a relationship with her. Because if you are, that kind of means that you will never be able to have one-on-one sex with her, you'll only be able to have threesome sex (you, her, and your boyfriend). Is this something you'd be willing and able to accept? If not, then I suggest you should not proposition her anymore. To be honest I can't tell if you and your boyfriend are ready for polyamory -- in spite of how favorably you look on it until it moves from theory into practice.

Do some thinking before you decide.
Regards,
Kevin T.

That's the thing, though. I'm still of mind with what we originally agreed to, whereas he is the one who wants an exclusively closed triad. We don't know what she wants, because she's still seeing if she's interested or not. I'm fine with them dating other people. I'm not looking at anyone else rn, but it is possible I could.

I do want sex to be open, both with just any of the two of us and with whomever else. So if she does want to talk about it, I'm going to have to come forward and say that my views are not my bf's views, despite how he'd presented them. Like, if she wanted to do it again, I'd be so tempted to say yes. But I'd hold back because my bf has gone back on those things. Like, we said a V would be okay, right? But he then said that if she only went for one of us, then he'd probably not be as invested. "Idk, I'd want to find someone both of us could enjoy."

I'm not certain poly will work for me either, though. I know it seems possible, because I've had multiple interests before, but I'm just not sure without actually attempting it. I do know that I'll have to talk to my bf about my concerns, as yeah, I don't like that I've basically been treated as an accessory vs my own person.

 

[Arnick]

Update:

I'm working on reestablishing my ideas. I don't think my friend will continue being interested in me; I think she might just be hesitant to say no for now. I'm hopeful I can mend our friendship, though.

However, my bf and I talked last night and I decided to open up to him about other crushes I'd had throughout our relationship, and he did the same. Basically I reiterated that, especially being two people interested in one another, it's not wrong that she has interests outside of us. And especially the sex topic last night. He'd showed me old texts from before we were together where he & another friend were very flirtatious and affectionate.

Then I started taking care of myself, if you catch my meaning. And he asked me why, what brought this on? And I told him that I was imagining him & his former crush friend being together. That got him excited too. He said he's almost always thought of sex on his own end, like he participates. I'd asked him if he might imagine me with someone else, as well. And it seems like knowing I was into him doing that, got him into the idea of me doing that again.

We haven't really had a whole discussion yet about how my ideas on polyamory are far more relaxed than his are. But I do love him, and I think I'll set about introducing him to these ideas slowly. Like, if a casual encounter does come along, I'm going to encourage him to do it first so that I can assure him further that we can do such a thing and still be okay. And it would also work for me, since I'm still testing if poly is for me or not - one step at a time.

Last night was extremely enjoyable and I'm hopeful now. Apologies. I've just been worried with how he handled this situation with our friend, and some lingering insecurity about my inability to meet his desire to reproduce. But I'm hopeful that we can make this work now.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Arnick,

Thanks for that update. It sounds like some windows are opening up for the open triad idea. Your boyfriend is slowly coming around to where he can see a few things in your eyes. I think if you just share your views a little at a time, he will have an easier time digesting them. So far so good, carry on!

Regards,
Kevin T.

 

[Magdlyn]

I am not sure if either of you guys have ever read anything about how to practice polyamory. Is our board the first place you've ever gone online to talk about it? Have you read any books or websites or listened to any podcasts?

Do you have any friends who are in actual polyamorous relationships, which are V or N-shaped networks?


Books:
Opening Up
Designer Relationships
Polysecure

Podcast:
Multiamory

Instead of reinventing the wheel, regarding threesome sex, triads, Vs, jealousy, envy, sex vs love, "adding a third," on and on, you could both start doing some reading and a lot more talking.

Bf seems to imagine that if you and he both have sex with the same person at the same time, he won't get jealous. This is actually not true. Please read this thread:

https://polyamory.com/threads/hey-formerly-mono-couples-opening-up-to-polyamory.155659/

Also, you could do a search here for the term "triad;" lots of threads will pop up.

You came at this proposition to your friend in an Aries fashion, ready, shoot, aim. You shot before you aimed. You had sex before bf was really OK with you having sex individually. You expected him to think like you, as if you were a two person borg, instead of two different people with individual wants and needs.

You let your friend believe you and bf had this all sorted out. It seems to me she is averse to group sex. She liked it one-on-one and walked when you proposed a threesome.

You were right, that the fantasy of polyamory or an open relationship is much different than the reality. And you only experienced the reality once. It will be different with every partner. New partners will not be part of the excitement of your shared masturbation when you think of each other with someone else. New partners will also have wants and needs of their own.

They are not fantasy sex toys, and they are not registered breeding mares, either. You went so far as to imagine that the friend would not only have threesome sex with you, she'd go on and have your bf's babies. Your imagination is getting way ahead of you.

I hope you can rebuild the friendship with your female friend. And I hope you and bf can get on the same page about an open or poly r'ship. Just give it some time and learn more before getting naked with someone else again.

 

[Arnick]

@Magdlyn
We've done quite a bit of a reading, here and elsewhere, thanks. We literally spent months discussing things. That's how we came to those general guidelines, as we did realize that those guidelines can change & likely will, depending on who joins the group. As there is a group dynamic on top of all the individual dynamics, it's not a simple thing. We at no point told her we had everything sorted out. We merely said we wanted to try it to see if it would work, especially since she was monogamous up until our offer. Yes, all of us do have poly friends.

I have no way of knowing if she was averse to threesomes or not, as she just never really communicated. We'd ask her all kinds of things that I'd expect even a stranger to handle, having just basic open communication. The friendship is more of an acquaintanceship now, because she's just too distant. It was foolish to try and pursue a romantic relationship with someone who struggles to even answer, "How are you?"

I realize each person has their own wants and needs. That's common knowledge. At no point did I say I wanted power or control over anyone, much less, "Omg yes, I have specifically stated that she must bear my bf's babies." I was stating that I thought that's what my boyfriend had maybe thought of, a fear that he'd sought to have her join us because he desired children that I, as a man, cannot give him.

Do you read? Like, you seem like you legit missed most of what I typed, instead just assuming we're dumb, thoughtless, and awful people.

Like for real, "You had sex before knowing your bf was really okay with you doing that individually." I stated we'd set up this guidelines first, and then he backtracked because he got jealous.

I know I'm being rude, but your reply just seems kinda rude to me.

 

[Magdlyn]

@Magdlyn
We've done quite a bit of a reading, here and elsewhere, thanks. We literally spent months discussing things. That's how we came to those general guidelines, as we did realize that those guidelines can change & likely will, depending on who joins the group. As there is a group dynamic on top of all the individual dynamics, it's not a simple thing.

Hi, and welcome back again.

I wonder where you read about poly. So many people start by talking to people on reddit, who, shall we say, can be kinda trollish. That's why I recommended actual well-thought-out books.

We at no point told her we had everything sorted out. We merely said we wanted to try it to see if it would work, especially since she was monogamous up until our offer. Yes, all of us do have poly friends.

I have no way of knowing if she was averse to threesomes or not, as she just never really communicated. We'd ask her all kinds of things that I'd expect even a stranger to handle, having just basic open communication. The friendship is more of an acquaintanceship now, because she's just too distant. It was foolish to try and pursue a romantic relationship with someone who struggles to even answer, "How are you?"

Yes, clear communication is important.

I realize each person has their own wants and needs. That's common knowledge.

You'd be surprised at how coupled people can often think. They think they think alike, that they are of one mind, and are surprised when they have different thoughts and feelings about how to open their relationship.

At no point did I say I wanted power or control over anyone, much less, "Omg yes, I have specifically stated that she must bear my bf's babies."

Nor did I say that.

I was stating that I thought that's what my boyfriend had maybe thought of, a fear that he'd sought to have her join us because he desired children that I, as a man, cannot give him.

Right. I understood that part. And he said he didn't want her to have his babies. He'd be fine with just donating sperm to a sperm bank, to carry on his genetic legacy.

Do you read? Like, you seem like you legit missed most of what I typed, instead just assuming we're dumb, thoughtless, and awful people.

I'm sorry you feel dumb. You also said that upthread: "I was being stupid, like a teenage boy."

It's okay to make mistakes when you're new to poly. We all do.

Like for real, "You had sex before knowing your bf was really okay with you doing that individually." I stated we'd set up this guidelines first, and then he backtracked because he got jealous.

I did not quite get that on the first read. I apologize. There was a lot to take in.

So, you told your bf you were gonna have one-on-one sex with the friend, he said, "Fine," and you did do that. But afterwards, bf got jealous and said he only wanted threesomes if you two were going to open your relationship, no one-on-one sex with anyone else, ever. This seems to be a big area of disagreement between you two.

And, by the way, he also didn't want your chosen dating prospect(s) to have any relationships with anyone else, even when he/you first started dating her (or him). It's like he wants any dating prospect to immediately take themselves off the market, from the first date with him/you, or at least from the first time y'all have sex?

He sounds like he has pretty bad jealousy issues, and maybe isn't ready for any kind of open or poly r'ship yet. What do you think?

I know I'm being rude, but your reply just seems kinda rude to me.

 

[Arnick]

He sounds like he has pretty bad jealousy issues, and maybe isn't ready for any kind of open or poly r'ship yet. What do you think?

He's admitted to as much, but we're working on that - especially when jealousy might crop up on my end as well. Rather than date around at the moment, we're going to attempt opening ourselves sexually first. Initially together, but we're hoping we can do stuff casually/individually as well.

I think it may end up with him wanting romantic partners and me being alright with just sexual ones. I can seperate love and sex, whereas he tends to bind those two things together. I'd spoken to him about why he thought about poly as well, and it seemed to me like he was just looking to have a tight-knit group of people, which doesn't necessarily preclude romance. So at the least, we might become sexually open & just need closer friends. We're still experimenting as it were, so I'm just speculating.

I'll apologize for any rudeness on my end though, I think maybe I read more into that than I should've