Questions About an Open Marriage

[Anon0391]

Hi all ...

I'm really quite new to this whole topic and am not really entirely sure how to approach it. First, some background:

My wife and I have been together for a total of almost 15 years and married for the past three. Recently, however, things have sort of spiralled. We argue quite a lot and lack intimacy (we have sex, but don't really have that closeness that we originally had when dating / honeymoon period).

Recently, my wife has suggested we open our marriage. Her thought process is that by allowing ourselves to get intimate with others, we can achieve that closeness again (not necessarily with each other) while maintaining boundaries.

I'm not entirely against it (though, admittedly, I don't think I would personally be interested in being intimate with another person). I suppose my biggest concerns and questions are:

- Jealousy. I'm not entirely sure how I'll feel knowing that she has another/multiple other partners. It's not something that's really crossed my mind until now. We're considering a "trial period" of a couple of months wherein both of us have "veto" power over the others relationships. Does this seem too restrictive?

- Honesty. How honest is too honest? I know this probably varies by person/relationship, but I'm wondering what the pros and cons are. Personally, I think I'd rather know when she's had an intimate relationship but I'm not overly interested in the details.

- The "benefits". I've done some research on this and have seen conflicting arguments - some stating that the jealousy can absolutely destroy a marriage and others arguing that the increase in intimacy between us and our extra-marital partners can actually lead to a stronger bond.

- Rules. I know that rules would need to be set and I've started working on a list of them myself. I'm wondering if there are any KEY rules that anybody would suggest.

I know this is a vague post without a whole lot of substance, I'm just really looking to learn more about this topic. I'm incredibly open to all kinds of relationships, but never considered myself as exploring the option of opening my own marriage. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[FallenAngelina]

Recently, however, things have sort of spiralled. We argue quite a lot and lack intimacy (we have sex, but don't really have that closeness that we originally had when dating / honeymoon period).

Recently, my wife has suggested we open our marriage. Her thought process is that by allowing ourselves to get intimate with others, we can achieve that closeness again (not necessarily with each other) while maintaining boundaries.

In my experience in my own marriage and in every other I have heard of, opening the relationship in an effort to save it when it lacks intimacy is a soft transition out. It's too painful for the partners to call it quits, so they opt for open marriage, other partners enter the picture and a separation ensues. Turning to new partners is never a fix for a relationship that is rocky. Rather than get messy and involve other people and their feelings, focus on being honest with each other about your relationship.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you guys are having problems.

Recently, my wife has suggested we open our marriage. Her thought process is that by allowing ourselves to get intimate with others, we can achieve that closeness again (not necessarily with each other) while maintaining boundaries.

So wife is saying something like:

• We argue a lot. We have intimacy problems. Sex is perfunctory, not like deep connection sharing.
  
• We are not into each other like we used to be.
  
• Let's open the marriage.
  
• Then we can build intimacy with other people and have intimacy in our lives again, though not necessarily with each other.

So how does this fix the problem of (lack of intimacy and closeness and getting along better in the marriage)?

Like if our house has no running water and hasn't for a while. I say let's make friends with other people who have showers. We can get showers over there. How does that fix the plumbing at THIS house?

- Jealousy. I'm not entirely sure how I'll feel knowing that she has another/multiple other partners. It's not something that's really crossed my mind until now. We're considering a "trial period" of a couple of months wherein both of us have "veto" power over the others relationships. Does this seem too restrictive?

Vetos don't work.

You can have messy people lists -- like asking her not to date your father or brother or boss or whatever. And you agree to return the favor. Not date her parents, boss, etc. That is making agreements BEFORE any dating and any connections. There is enough people in the world to date without going right for the "messies."

But having someone and wife get close and then you pull a veto telling her to dump them? They are both gonna be upset with that. Because the objection comes AFTER the connection is made rather than before. Feelings have developed. It would be the same if she vetoes you and any connection you make. And you can say you want a veto but wife could say "Not doing it" --- then what? Or the other way around -- she vetoes you and you say "Not doing it" -- then what?

- Honesty. How honest is too honest? I know this probably varies by person/relationship, but I'm wondering what the pros and cons are. Personally, I think I'd rather know when she's had an intimate relationship but I'm not overly interested in the details.

Every grouping has to agree on information management. You might want to know there's a lover, and that safe sex practices are being used. You might not want to know they like doing it up a tree.

In this case I think you are better off being honest about the marriage assessment. If this is a dying on the vine marriage? Call it what it is. And part ways and disband the marriage rather than open the marriage.

- The "benefits". I've done some research on this and have seen conflicting arguments - some stating that the jealousy can absolutely destroy a marriage and others arguing that the increase in intimacy between us and our extra-marital partners can actually lead to a stronger bond.

Can the "benefits" be achieved without opening the marriage? How would that look like?

Is this Opening the marriage really a "soft exit" out of the marriage? If so, is divorce a faster and less complicated path?

- Rules. I know that rules would need to be set and I've started working on a list of them myself. I'm wondering if there are any KEY rules that anybody would suggest.

Why do rules need to be set? What would be the purpose? What do the rules protect?

Do you mean like...

"No saddling me with child care all the time while you date around."

"Home bills have to be paid out of home accounts. Dating money comes out of our personal allowance accounts, not main accounts."

But before you get too deep into all that?

Take a step back instead. Honestly assess if you REALLY want to Open. You can say "no" to her suggestion.

If she wants to Open and you do not want to participate in Open Marriage? Then accepting this marriage no longer serves either well would be next and then a decent divorce. Parting clean and breaking up before either of you dates other people might be easier than taking "the long way around" through Opening the marriage, drama, THEN divorce.

"Marriage broken, add more people" never works. And it's not fair to the other people anyway. They are not the "bandaids" to fix the marriage or help one endure marriage.

It's also not fair to each of you. When there no rose smelling choice? Seems better to go for the single stink choice (divorce clean now) than the double stink choice (Open marriage drama/woes, dragging things out, new pain, then divorce.)

LINKS TO READ

http://openingup.net/resources/free-downloads-from-opening-up/

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/downloadabledocuments.html

http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles

https://www.morethantwo.com/

You could Open a marriage because you both LOVE the idea if being together in an Open marriage. Not Open a marriage because the marriage is meh and you want to escape it. If you want to escape it? Probably better to just break up instead.

Be SUPER honest with yourselves and each other about that. Talk this out and really think.

I wonder... You've been together 15 and married for the last 3? Was "let's get married" an attempt to breath fresh air into the relationship also? And now that infusion has pittered out? So wife is looking for the next infusion?

Galagirl

 

[lunabunny]

The other posters, above, have some great advice. If I were you, I'd listen... especially in regards to the idea that adding more people to a troubled marriage is almost always a risky endeavour.

For a relationship that is already experiencing difficulties, the added stress/friction, jealousy and time management issues that occur when more relationships become involved often means the original couple grows further apart, rather than closer.

If you two DO decide to go ahead with opening your marriage, regardless, this is what I think in response to your questions:

- Jealousy. I'm not entirely sure how I'll feel knowing that she has another/multiple other partners. It's not something that's really crossed my mind until now.

Nobody ever knows how they'll handle the feelings that inevitably ensue once their partner starts having a sexual/romantic relationship with someone else. Even if you don't usually consider yourself a jealous person (as I didn't), you might be surprised by the strength of the negative reaction you have to actually *knowing* that your loved one is engaging intimately with someone else.

Conversely, it is fairly common for the person who originally requested to open the marriage to be the one to feel gut-punched if and when their partner decides to take them up on the offer and starts dating. (i.e. your wife may want this now, and may THINK she'll be able to handle YOU dating others... but she may discover she doesn't react the way she envisaged she would.)

There are, of course, people for whom sexual jealousy isn't an issue. They may be more concerned if they discover their partner has developed actual feelings for someone else... or maybe they'll be fine either way. But it's unusual for neither spouse to feel any jealousy or insecurity when first opening up.

We're considering a "trial period" of a couple of months wherein both of us have "veto" power over the others relationships. Does this seem too restrictive?

A veto agreement is almost always a bad idea, for the reasons the others have detailed, above. Not only is it "restrictive" when it comes to you and/or your wife... it's unfair to any third party who may become involved with either one of you. Other people's emotions, time and energy is just as valuable to THEM, as yours are to you/wife.

For obvious reasons, most people (potential partners) want to feel they have a say in their own relationships, rather than having the term dictated by someone with whom they are NOT directly in a relationship with. Think this through clearly before agreeing to any veto arrangement.

- Honesty. How honest is too honest? I know this probably varies by person/relationship, but I'm wondering what the pros and cons are. Personally, I think I'd rather know when she's had an intimate relationship but I'm not overly interested in the details.

- The "benefits". I've done some research on this and have seen conflicting arguments - some stating that the jealousy can absolutely destroy a marriage and others arguing that the increase in intimacy between us and our extra-marital partners can actually lead to a stronger bond.

Some people/couples agree to a Don't Ask; Don't Tell (DADT) arrangement. Personally, I wouldn't agree to one and I don't think it's generally a great idea for several reasons. The main one is that the sexual health of everyone concerned is vitally important. It is imperative that you at least discuss and agree on the measures you'll both take in regards to safe sex... or if either of you is considering fluid bonding with another partner.

If you live together (as in your case), and especially if children are involved, it may also be necessary to inform the other partner about when you plan to go out on a date, or wish to have an overnight with another partner, in order to make adequate and fair childcare arrangements. One partner shouldn't always be "stuck" looking after all the domestic tasks while the other gets to go out whenever and with whomever they please. These things should be negotiated, which will necessarily involved SOME degree of disclosure.

It's not necessary to give the other partner the details of any particular sexual encounter. For one thing, that is often TMI for the partner who is not in another relationship to handle. It often breeds jealousy and unhelpful competitive feelings. Some people are really squeamish about learning the details of sexual positions or body parts, numbers of orgasms, etc. On the other hand, there is a subset of non-monogamous folk for whom this kind of sharing turns them on... and they may use it to fuel the sex life they share with their spouse/original partner. Bear in mind, however, that any additional partner has a RIGHT and an expectation of privacy. Do not overshare details unless they have consented to this.

- Rules. I know that rules would need to be set and I've started working on a list of them myself. I'm wondering if there are any KEY rules that anybody would suggest.

No, rules don't "need" to be set. Rules CAN be useful in the very beginning of opening up a relationship - but they tend to impinge on the autonomy and rights of any additional partner, so be careful not to be too restrictive.

I think you may be thinking about "agreements". It IS a great idea to consider and discuss what you THINK each of you may be up for BEFORE involving anyone else. You won't KNOW exactly how this will play out, however, until another real life person enters the pictures, because every single individual has their own feelings, needs and boundaries. Agreements need to be negotiated on a case-by-case basis... then RE-negotiated whenever any needs or life changes occur.

 

[KC43]

I agree with what others have said about it usually being a bad idea to add others to a struggling relationship. I agree with it even though that's exactly how I ended up being poly; my husband and I had some serious incompatibilities, including sexual ones, that had our marriage at the breaking point, and he suggested I see other people to meet the needs I had that he wasn't meeting.

It's been five and a half years. I can't say there haven't been rough patches, but it's been working so far.

That said, though, it is, from what I've seen and heard, very, very rare for a marriage that opens under those circumstances to transition into a healthy, functioning poly situation. In our case it worked because although my husband is monogamous, he is a firm believer in personal autonomy. In his mind, he has no right to prevent me from meeting my needs simply because we have rings and a piece of paper. He also can't really conceptualize jealousy. (I, however, can, so I honestly believe that if he had also turned out to be poly, our marriage would *not* have survived.) We also, despite the marriage problems and some trauma-based issues on my part, had strong communication with each other beforehand, so when issues arose we talked about them and tried to resolve them.

Rules aren't necessary. Rules are, in my opinion, not really a good thing. Hubby and I did have rules at first: "You can't even be friends with people you fuck." When I pointed out how illogical that was, it became, "You can be friends with them, but if any stronger feelings develop, you have to cut them out of your life." That lasted until I fell in love with someone else and admitted it, at which point my husband said, "You're polyamorous. I'm okay with that." The problem with rules is that sometimes they are irrational or impossible (e.g. the often-decided "you can't fall in love with anyone else"), but also that they're an attempt to control *someone else's* behavior, and when it's a poly thing, that "someone else" might not get a vote.

In my husband's and my case, the "you have to cut ties with someone if you feel anything stronger than friendship" was not only his attempt to control my behavior (though he didn't see it that way at the time), but it was also controlling people who weren't even involved yet. Under that rule, ANYONE who got involved with me might be cut out of my life at any time, without a chance to negotiate or discuss it. I did let people know up front that that was the rule, so they had a choice of whether or not to get involved with me in the first place, but still.

I find it's much more fair and easier to manage to have agreements and boundaries instead of rules. While to some it's just different words for the same thing, I see it this way: As I said above, a rule is an attempt to control *someone else's* behavior, for example, "You can't fall in love with anyone else." An agreement is negotiated between the people involved and isn't really about control, for example, "Let's let each other know if we're going to be out overnight." A boundary is a statement of *your own* possible response to someone else's behavior, for example "If you have unprotected sex with someone else without telling me, I'll stop having sex with you because you will have put my sexual health at risk."

(Some people would see that last one as an ultimatum. I don't think so, though there is a fine line. To me, an ultimatum, like a rule, is an attempt to control someone else's behavior, to bully them into doing what you want. A boundary is simply a statement that sets in place what you are and are not willing to accept, and informs the other person of a possible result of that boundary being violated. When it's an ultimatum, it really is "You can't do that"; when it's a boundary, it's more "You're free to do what you want, just be aware that if you do X, I'll have to do Y." Freedom to do what you want doesn't mean freedom from the consequences of your actions.)

Sorry for the sidetrack...

Getting back to your question, one thing I want to say is that your solution to jealousy ("a trial period during which we each have veto power"), while it might seem like a good idea on the surface, has a lot of potential pitfalls. First, it's unfair to anyone else who gets involved with you if at any moment, you might tell them, "Sorry, wife says I can't see you anymore, you don't get a vote." Second, it amounts to a rule: "You have to break up with someone if I tell you to" (again, trying to control someone else's behavior). Third, in cases where veto is supposed to be a thing, it seems fairly common for the partner who's receiving the veto to say "Nope, sorry, I know you have veto power but I'm going to keep seeing them anyway," or worse, to sneak around behind their partner's back to see the person who's been vetoed.

A more reasonable and fair way to handle it might be a trial period at the *end* of which you'll sit down together, and maybe include other partners who've come along, and decide whether you're okay with continuing to be open or need to close, either temporarily or permanently. And if you go that way, I would strongly suggest telling anyone you might get involved with that your connection with them might turn out to be temporary, so they can decide up front if they're okay with that and they don't get blindsided by a sudden "Sorry, we're not seeing other people anymore."

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Anon0391,

For me, the thing to do about jealousy is, first, try to anticipate what would cause it for you, and try to address that ahead of time, and second, examine jealousy when it actually arises, and try to determine what's causing it. As a rule, I don't recommend veto power, unless it is only used at the earliest part of a new relationship, before any feelings have developed. Veto used after feelings have developed is too cruel, even if everyone agreed to it ahead of time. If you do have veto power, make sure your new partners are made aware of that fact as soon as you start dating them ... so that they at least technically know what they're getting into.

It's really up to you what level of disclosure you wish to maintain once you open your marriage. Generally speaking, it is enough to know that your spouse is sexually/emotionally involved with someone else, you probably don't need to be notified every time they get together or have sex. But there are exceptions to that rule. Some people need details, for whatever reasons. Others need a DADT arrangement. You have to decide what's best for you. Of course, your outside/additional partners need to be okay with your level of disclosure. Also it makes sense to inform your spouse of potential pregnancy/health issues (like are they using a condom).

Everyone's different, some people are hurt by knowing that their spouse is having sex with someone else, other people are turned on by that. Still others are indifferent. You have to try to anticipate how it'll be for you, and then when you actually do open, monitor yourself to see how things are actually affecting you. Try to be proactive and nip any new problems in the bud. Having said that, there's always a chance that things will be much harder on you than you would have thought, and you can't always come out of that unscathed. An open relationship is a risk ... just as any kind of relationship is a risk. You can only calculate the risk.

The rules you agree to will be as unique as each of you is as a person. They should also be negotiable. As new situations arise (and others fade), some rules will need to be changed, some added, others dropped. When in doubt about whether to have more rules or less rules, choose less rules. And have a regularly-scheduled sit-down where you discuss how things are going and what you want to adjust. If you have other partners, make them a part of that conversation, to be fair to them. And of course, notify any new partners right away of what the rules are. Modify the way the rules are worded so that they become agreements and boundaries.

Hopefully this helps address some of your questions and concerns.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Monowife67]

Brutal honesty

My husband and I are in the beginning stages of adapting to what is now a mono/poly marriage. Initial conversations were very emotional, and we weren't lacking a connection or intimacy withing our relationship, but his nature is polyamorous. When I was finally able to hear him out and talk openly, we found that brutal honesty worked for us. Putting everything on the table helped to put things into perspective. He is willing to share with me whatever I want to know, though I agree that I don't need specifics. I basically told him I'd be comfortable with him playing with a female friend he's had for years because I know she's safe in the sense that she doesn't want a romantic relationship and understands that we're married, and that I will be his top priority.
Just keep the lines of communication open, check out any literature on the subject, and use these forums as a resource. It's been very helpful for me so far. Good luck!

 

[zigzag]

Sorry your having problems.

You said your wife thought "we can achieve that closeness again (not necessarily with each other) while maintaining boundaries. "

What boundaries would you maintain? It certainly won't be physical, intimate, sexual or emotional boundaries and for me everything else is just housekeeping, unless there is childcare (that's another matter). If your wife is now happy because she is now has a physical, intimate, sexual and emotional relationship with someone else, and you now get on better (less arguing) and you can handle this without any problems, surely you are just flatmates.

It would seem she may really mean ... while maintaining domestic arrangements.

So sorry I must to chime in with others but my experience (not direct) from what I've witnessed several times is any sort of open marriage, poly, swinging or whatever to rescue or spice-up a broken relationship will almost certainly fail badly. In fact it will make matters worse. I've seen too many people hurt by trying this. Do not go down this route to fix a broken relationship.

Also I do not think that going down this route will give a broken relationship a "soft landing" so that you will gradually drift apart into the arms of others and it will all end happily. Typically, again from my observations. one person likes it or is at least OK and the other is devastated or jealous or hurt or angry etc which leads to more acrimony. You must try and fix your relationship and if you can't be honest and end it. Adding a 3rd or 4th or whatever will only complicate matters.

Also from my own experiences a veto won't work, it damages trust and can lead to perceived unfairness and frustration. Only negotiation and consensus works. Also to be blunt the "veto" is over another human beings feelings and relationship too. It would be grossly unethical if one of you started a relationship with a 3rd person only for it to be vetoed at some point by an unseen partner leaving that person hurt and confused. "Sorry I love you, but my partner says I can't sleep/see/talk with you any more"...er No.