Questions about poly norms

[Starcrossed]

Hey, everyone. I'm looking for some advice about a situation I'm in. My spouse and I have recently decided to explore polyamory (neither of us have had other relationships or dates yet). I have a friend that I've had a crush on for a long time (like, years). My friend is married and has a long-term girlfriend, so I knew he was of the poly mindset, but I did not know if he was looking for/open to dating additional people. When my husband and I decided to open up, I mentioned it to this friend 1) to gauge his possible interest and 2) to ask advice as a person in a poly relationship. It transpired in the course of our convo that he and his wife have "closed down" and have been closed for a few years, with the exception of his long term gf. He said he wishes they could open back up, but he's content as is.

This is all cool and fine... like I'm disappointed, obviously, but y'know, you win some, you lose some. And knowing of course that everyone is different, every relationship is different, and the game of trying to figure out what someone's feelings are based on their actions, or their motivations for their actions, is very dicey. But I would like to understand the situation better from a poly perspective, knowing that my own is still very heavily influenced by monogamous norms.

The first thing I want to understand is that his behavior changed toward me. We were being very flirty in the weeks leading up to my revelation to him that my spouse and I were opening up. Most of it initiated by him. He seemed to reel it in a lot after I told him. We had some other really nice conversations after that, that seemed deeper, in fact, but less flirty. So like... what's up with that? I know that he is a very flirty person in general... did he shut it down when I told him my husband I were opening up because he didn't want to lead me on, once I became someone that could want to date him?

Second, like... how hard do I try to get rid of this crush? So they're not open to new people right now.... but might they be in the future? Would it be worth asking him? I wouldn't want to bank on it, of course, but should I try to quash this crush like I would if he/they were totally just monogamous?

And would it be appropriate to be honest about my feelings to him? If I had a crush on a friend in a strictly monogamous relationship, I wouldn't tell him I had a crush on him because that just places a burden on him and isn't really fair... is that how I should react in this situation or are poly people generally more open to knowing about other people's authentic feelings?

I also have other poly friends who have "romantic friendships," which sounds to be like basically dating without engaging in sex or sexual activity (like, holding hands and saying I Love You is ok, kissing is not). Maybe the crush/his wife would be open to something like that (if my feelings are reciprocated, which I don't know) so maybe it's worth mentioning... or maybe not.

I know this is a lot of guessing and assuming and inferring... definitely not looking for any definite answers. I know the only way to get those is to talk to the person. I'm just new to this and I'm interested to hear you're reactions to this situation, so I can hopefully get a feel for the etiquette/norms around this kind of stuff in the poly world. Thanks.

 

[TXretired]

Welcome. You know your friend is closed so there is no since is saying you have a crush. Some things you just have to accept. I am closed so I understand. I would not be flirty as I would not want to lead someone on. I would hope he could give you some inside on poly. He is not rejecting you, he is protecting his relationships.

 

[Evie]

did he shut it down when I told him my husband I were opening up because he didn't want to lead me on, once I became someone that could want to date him?

Only he could actually answer that question. Stop trying to play "guess what's in his brain," it's not productive.

And would it be appropriate to be honest about my feelings to him?

Personally, I wouldn't. Just let it go.

Second, like... how hard do I try to get rid of this crush? So they're not open to new people right now.... but might they be in the future? Would it be worth asking him? I wouldn't want to bank on it, of course, but should I try to quash this crush like I would if he/they were totally just monogamous?

He's told you that he's poly but the relationships are closed. Please don't disrespect him or his partners by trying to circumvent that. Go meet new people and let this crush go.

 

[Inaniel]

He's not into you.

 

[GalaGirl]

I know this is a lot of guessing and assuming and inferring... definitely not looking for any definite answers. I know the only way to get those is to talk to the person.

Then ask him direct and be ready to hear a more direct no.

Rather than you "hinting" at him and him "hinting back" that it's a no go.

Or just skip it because you got the hint.

The first thing I want to understand is that his behavior changed toward me. We were being very flirty in the weeks leading up to my revelation to him that my spouse and I were opening up. Most of it initiated by him. He seemed to reel it in a lot after I told him. We had some other really nice conversations after that, that seemed deeper, in fact, but less flirty. So like... what's up with that? I know that he is a very flirty person in general... did he shut it down when I told him my husband I were opening up because he didn't want to lead me on, once I became someone that could want to date him?

Does it matter really? For all you know someone in the family died or lost their job and he isn't in the mood to flirt.

Or if he's dialing it back so as not to lead you on -- isn't that him trying to be polite at you because he knows you are a poly newbie? What's so horrible about that?

Second, like... how hard do I try to get rid of this crush? So they're not open to new people right now.... but might they be in the future? Would it be worth asking him? I wouldn't want to bank on it, of course, but should I try to quash this crush like I would if he/they were totally just monogamous?

Let time pass and let it go. Because right now he is Closed.

If you catch yourself daydreaming about him in a crush way? Stop doing that behavior.

And let more time pass. You will eventually move on to other interests who may be more viable potentials.

If I had a crush on a friend in a strictly monogamous relationship, I wouldn't tell him I had a crush on him because that just places a burden on him and isn't really fair...

Dude is in a Closed polyship and he's not looking to change that. So why's that different than the friend in a strictly mono relationship?
Either way? Still not actionable.

Don't tell him you have a crush on him.

Let it go.

I also have other poly friends who have "romantic friendships," which sounds to be like basically dating without engaging in sex or sexual activity (like, holding hands and saying I Love You is ok, kissing is not). Maybe the crush/his wife would be open to something like that (if my feelings are reciprocated, which I don't know) so maybe it's worth mentioning... or maybe not.

I could be wrong. This sounds like you doing "bargaining stage" in the stages of grief. Like trying to still make something happen because you are not at final acceptance with the "No" response.

If he was up for any alternatives he would have told you.

He told you he is Closed and not looking to change anything. Possibly in a "let you down easy" way.

But still.... bottom line is NO. Work on accepting that.

I'm just new to this and I'm interested to hear you're reactions to this situation, so I can hopefully get a feel for the etiquette/norms around this kind of stuff in the poly world.

My reaction is to take people at face value. I expect people to say what they mean. So I'm going to take it like so. Because I will not "mind reader."

Anything less than a joyful, enthusiastic "yes" is a "working no" to me.

"Wish I could change but no, I'm happy how it is ..." is a NO.

Basically dude told you he's not interested. HEAR HIM when he let's you down easy.

There are no "norms." People who design their own relationships, make "their norms" for that grouping.

I mean, people who poly? Just because they poly doesn't automatically mean they do the same kind of poly model. Some want very separate V's, some want kitchen table poly. Some want a clear primary-secondary structure. Some want a co-primary thing.

So the "norms" in those groupings might be different.

All you can do is be polite and up front about what you seek, are and are not up for, and figure out who lines up with that or not. That's what any kind of dating IS -- figuring out the compatible ones.

Galagirl

 

[Starcrossed]

Welcome. You know your friend is closed so there is no since is saying you have a crush. Some things you just have to accept. I am closed so I understand. I would not be flirty as I would not want to lead someone on. I would hope he could give you some inside on poly. He is not rejecting you, he is protecting his relationships.

@TXretired Thank you. I absolutely know that he's not rejecting me. I didn't mean to imply that in any way. He has given me helpful advice and continues to be a great friend, which I absolutely value.

He's told you that he's poly but the relationships are closed. Please don't disrespect him or his partners by trying to circumvent that. Go meet new people and let this crush go.

@Evie I definitely don't want to disrespect him or his partners. They're both super. I wanna be part of that polycule lol! But I gotcha. I can't "let it go" like Elsa in the ice castle, but I don't have to act on it.

He's not into you.

@Inaniel lol awkward... how do you know him??
Naw, just kidding. I mean, you don't know either of us and that's not really what I asked, cause how would y'all possibly know, but I get it. You're probably right that he is not!

 

[Evie]

. I can't "let it go" like Elsa in the ice castle, but I don't have to act on it.

Probably a good thing, I believe Elsa did a little bit of damage before she got things under control.

 

[Starcrossed]

Then ask him direct and be ready to hear a more direct no.

Rather than you "hinting" at him and him "hinting back" that it's a no go.

Or just skip it because you got the hint.


Does it matter really? For all you know someone in the family died or lost their job and he isn't in the mood to flirt.

Or if he's dialing it back so as not to lead you on -- isn't that him trying to be polite at you because he knows you are a poly newbie? What's so horrible about that?



Let time pass and let it go. Because right now he is Closed.

If you catch yourself daydreaming about him in a crush way? Stop doing that behavior.

And let more time pass. You will eventually move on to other interests who may be more viable potentials.



Dude is in a Closed polyship and he's not looking to change that. So why's that different than the friend in a strictly mono relationship?
Either way? Still not actionable.

Don't tell him you have a crush on him.

Let it go.



I could be wrong. This sounds like you doing "bargaining stage" in the stages of grief. Like trying to still make something happen because you are not at final acceptance with the "No" response.

If he was up for any alternatives he would have told you.

He told you he is Closed and not looking to change anything. Possibly in a "let you down easy" way.

But still.... bottom line is NO. Work on accepting that.



My reaction is to take people at face value. I expect people to say what they mean. So I'm going to take it like so. Because I will not "mind reader."

Anything less than a joyful, enthusiastic "yes" is a "working no" to me.

"Wish I could change but no, I'm happy how it is ..." is a NO.

Basically dude told you he's not interested. HEAR HIM when he let's you down easy.

There are no "norms." People who design their own relationships, make "their norms" for that grouping.

I mean, people who poly? Just because they poly doesn't automatically mean they do the same kind of poly model. Some want very separate V's, some want kitchen table poly. Some want a clear primary-secondary structure. Some want a co-primary thing.

So the "norms" in those groupings might be different.

All you can do is be polite and up front about what you seek, are and are not up for, and figure out who lines up with that or not. That's what any kind of dating IS -- figuring out the compatible ones.

Galagirl

Thank you. Yes, I'm probably bargaining a bit. To be honest I'm not sure he knows how I feel and therefore that he is letting me down, and he did say he wishes they could open up. But you're right. And there's nothing horrible about him stopping flirting. It's fine, it is what it is. It just confused me.

Basically what y'all are telling me confirms my gut feeling that I should proceed as if he were in a strictly monogamous relationship. Which I will. If things change in the future I won't complain, but I won't try to nudge them in that direction. I'll continue to value our friendship for what it is, because I'm very grateful to have him as a friend. <3

 

[MeeraReed]

I think your assessment is correct--he was flirty when you were a "safe" person to flirt with because you were monogamous, then he dialed it back because he didn't want to lead you on.

And yes, you should view his closed relationship status the same as you would a monogamous one, and not interfere with it by revealing your crush.

Some people who enjoy flirting but choose to be closed/monogamous do enjoy flirting with friends in the context that the flirting is "safe" because it will never be acted on. Like, it is a safe outlet for non-monogamous impulses, but will never go further.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Starcrossed,

Going by what you have posted so far, it seems to me that this friend/crush is not in a position to pursue you, and he is okay with that. In theory, you could ask him whether his polycule might open up in the future, but I'm pretty sure the answer would be no. He is being less flirty because the situation has changed, he now knows that you are poly, and that makes you available. If he does open up in the future (unlikely, but possible), he can always let you know at that time. Anything he wants to pursue, and can pursue, he can let you know. I think the ball is in his court. I guess I'm in agreement with the general consensus on this thread.

Kind regards,
Kevin T.

 

[Token2]

I'm just going to second and third what's been said about people flirting because it feels safe.

We come from the swingers world and there's been more than 1 time in a vanilla environment that a woman doesn't know that and thinks my husband is unavailable, overtly flirting almost as a power play, like once at my birthday party in front of all my guests, to the point a friend became indignant on my behalf... and then when he lets them know we're open and things COULD progress they cool down pretty fast.

In their heads it's a harmless tease.