Really could use advice (very promising new relationship)

[Greg]

Hey all, new here with my relationship dilemma

...so I feel like I've been digging myself a bit of a whole into a new poly relationship and could really use some perspectives on things. I'll just start with my main question:

What is the best way to date someone in a poly relationship who has partners that are not poly / have strong issues with it and are poisoning the beginning of a new relationship?

I've started seeing someone over the past week and we are *head over heels* into each other, to say the least. It's a very beautiful, deep, profound connection we share that I cannot put into words. We've been spending 20+ hours in bed talking and cuddling and laying the groundwork for boundaries and needs for this budding new relationship. It's very beautiful.

Originally I thought her situation was very straight forward, having seen her openly at an event with both her other partners. So I dove in expecting communication to be fairly open and understood. As it turns out, one of her partners is actually monogamous and pretty jealous of me off top, and he is guilting her in all sorts of ways, limiting what she "can do" and also has an understanding that he will leave her when he finds his "true" monogamous mate. What's worse, he's even denying sexual favors to her for not being monogamous. It was hard to hear about.

Her other partner is a long-standing one for years and they were monogamous recently. They've been fighting a lot the past weeks but she mentioned me to both partners and conveyed that at least he seemed pretty cool with me. I actually had an existing friendship with him (early stage) before I met her, which was very coincidental. He seems to respect me a lot as a person, which is cool.

However, I spoke with him for the first time about the whole situation recently after getting all sorts of jealous and (what I think) inappropriate texts. This person seems to "want to be / try" to live up to the poly that *she* wants, but his heart doesn't seem in it. I told him I would back off to give their relationship space and time to heal, but this did little too ease his discomfort, which worries me a lot. His jealousy seems pretty far reaching, and very problematic to me.

So what should I do? I feel like I'm entering a new relationship with him as well, and to be honest, I am not great friends with him and have a much more profound connection with this new woman in my life. I'm scared though, because she is still pretty new to poly, has almost zero support system, and seems to have two men toying with / controlling much of her poly choices (with a troubling lack of consent). She was so excited to know I was poly for years and did not care who she shared love with. She just started to glow when I told her that.....and she's doing the reading on it and growing a lot. I really respect her for it.

So basically, I'm in a good place with her and I think her journey is really intentional and focused. But I am so unsure about her partners and am really worried they will manipulate her out of a relationship with me. Or is that my insecurities talking? What do you all think?

(p.s. sorry for the long ramble!!)

 

[Tinwen]

What is the best way to date someone in a poly relationship who has partners that are not poly / have strong issues with it and are poisoning the beginning of a new relationship?

The consensus on this forum seems to be: simply don't. It's more trouble then it's worth.
Wait until she has sorted her situation out.

As it turns out, one of her partners is actually monogamous and pretty jealous of me off top, and he is guilting her in all sorts of ways, limiting what she "can do" and also has an understanding that he will leave her when he finds his "true" monogamous mate. What's worse, he's even denying sexual favors to her for not being monogamous. It was hard to hear about.

However, I spoke with him for the first time about the whole situation recently after getting all sorts of jealous and (what I think) inappropriate texts.

Sending you jealous texts? Like, really? After a week?
She's chosen not one, but two partners who are uncomfortable with polyamory.

I'm scared though, because she is still pretty new to poly, has almost zero support system, and seems to have two men toying with / controlling much of her poly choices (with a troubling lack of consent).

You are afraid that they are behaving inappropriately, and may talk her out of the relationship. But actually to me it read like she may be toying around with their feelings. She keeps seeing a "partner" (though this man's behavior doesn't sound very loving... if the description is even accurate) who is deeply uncomfortable with polyamory, and chooses to take on new partners regardless. She has one other partner who is trying hard, and spends with you 20 hours cuddling in bed during the first week - so much time is almost guaranteed to make him jealous too. If she treats them this way, how is she going to treat your feelings once you've outgrown NRE?

IMHO this situation doesn't read good at all, consider your involvement seriously.

 

[Greg]

Hey Tinwen,
Thanks so much for your quick response. I was really hoping for a reply before I talk to her later today and this helps a lot.

you make so many good points. I didnt think about it, but you are right that taking on a new partner who was not poly is a pretty bad choice, especially when the other partner is trying, but is also noticeably uncomfortable with poly (though it sure sounds like he enjoys fucking around and maybe equates that with "being poly").

To her credit, the new person was told immediately that she is poly and desires that. He is "in between" monog relationships so I guess theyre trying to make something work. Ive done this before (with poor results of couse). What worries me most is that the relationship was entered into VERY quickly, he is much older than her (maybe this is irrelevant) and I believe he is manipulating her, trying to get her to compromise on a very clear poly stance which was communicated from the beginning.

The other person, she partnered with mongs originally and decided she needed to be poly so he is "adapting" - at least thats what it sounds like. So she is communicating at least, and very clearly *wants* to be poly and is trying I think. youre right though, she is making some bad choices and and I think she really needs a better poly support structure.


I actually did some research and writing out a lot of my thoughts and fears about this. I think you are right, that this is reading very poorly so far. The jealous texts did stop last night and an apology was made and both of them checked in with me which is good. but yeah, thats a lot of red flags to start with.

I think I may just stick to a friendship for now, but convey my romantic feelings as being a future possibility once things get more sorted out. I would really like to be a poly support person for her, someone she can talk to about these issues and gain some perspective. We share a common community but, more importantly, she has grown quite dear to my heart already. I should be weary of that I guess, but I also don't want to close myself off to new people by always "playing it safe."

also, this is a very, very excellent point:
"She has one other partner who is trying hard, and spends with you 20 hours cuddling in bed during the first week - so much time is almost guaranteed to make him jealous too. If she treats them this way, how is she going to treat your feelings once you've outgrown NRE?"
their relationship is seriously on the fritz on so were confiding in each other a lot and talking about him and his feelings in the process. But yeah, that is a huge amount of time to spend with someone in the first week and she is definitely very susceptible to NRE without much consideration of others feelings.

 

[MrFarFromRight]

Hi, Greg, and welcome to the forum!

What took you so long???

Your new friend (and I hope that she remains your friend, whether you are lovers or not) needs to make some choices. She's with one guy who's so uncomfortable with poly that he's trying to bribe/blackmail her into going mono with him by withholding certain aspects of his fantastic sexuality until she accepts him on his terms. Toxic! Alternative: he's with her until he finds a mono relationship.

Personally, I can't understand somebody needing sex THAT much that that they get into / remain in a toxic relationship like this. HE should realise that she's not going to give up poly for his sexual gold-medal gymnastics (he should cut his losses and busy himself with looking for a mono), and SHE should realise that she's not going to have a healthy relationship with someone who tries manipulating her like this.

I see a bit more hope re: the other guy. But the 3 of you are going to have to deal with the jealousy-NRE tangle. If you were/are friends and he respects you, this will be easier. (Or maybe not?)

If I were her, I'd ditch the first (or give HIM an ultimatum: "Either you respect my choices or I see you to the door!"), and work hard on communicating with you and the second.

But I'm NOT her. And neither are you. She has to make her own choices. However, you CAN make the decision to keep communication channels open and honest with him and her (and the first one if he's willing to get his shit together).

Pressing the "pause" button on the sex with her - or at the very least the "slow motion" button - would be a good idea until this gets cleared up.

p.s. If she's new to poly, you might consider showing her this thread and suggesting she sign up. It's FREE!!! And she can present her POV and get advice.

 

[MrFarFromRight]

Actually, re-reading the OP, if the first guy's "denying sexual favors to her" means "petting with our clothes on is OK, but no further [or wherever he draws the line: 'going all the way'?] until we make a 'commitment' to each other", I can try to squeeze myself into his shoes and see things from his POV. Chastity until the wedding night variant. Not too difficult for me, since I was brought up a fundamentalist Christian. I wore shoes like that for a long time. (But what a relief to go barefoot!)

Unless he's the one who 'enjoys fucking around and maybe equates that with "being poly" '. In which case it's a nasty double standard.

Could you give the 2 of them pseudonyms or label them A and B to spare our confusion?

 

[tenK]

In general, everything you describe is her stuff to attend to and sort out. All you need to manage is your budding relationship with her. However, it does sound like she might not be very good at choosing partners, maintaining healthy boundaries, communicating with her lovers, and generally being a supportive partner. Speaking personally, I wouldn't want to date someone in the situation you describe. It's certainly not your place to police her other relationships. If you think they are manipulating her, and/or actively seeking to control your own relationship with her, then it would be kind and compassionate to point out those behaviours to her. It's ultimately her decision though. Even though it sounds very much like one or both of her other partners are not a good match for her, sometimes people need to figure that out for themselves. Don't get all 'white knight-y'; this is not your circus, these are not your monkeys.

 

[Greg]

ahh thanks so much for the replies everyone!!! this is helping so much
It's 8:45am here and I slept all of 30min last night. I guess this stuff is weighing heavier on me than i thought. Glad I stopped tossing and turning in bed and found this site instead (sorry that rhymed).


Firstly, I definitely am going to stay her friend / in her life in whatever way works best for us. It's hard to describe to people that value relationships solely based on "amount of time together" that our connection is something very special and unique, which is a huge part of the reason I am willing to put so much work into this. In pretty much any other scenario I would be really questioning my role in it at all. But I care for her deeply and she is actually a very giving person, despite how it may come across with the poly stuff. Nurturing people and caring for others is a huge part of her work / being and it is one thing that really attracts me.

I see a bit more hope re: the other guy. But the 3 of you are going to have to deal with the jealousy-NRE tangle. If you were/are friends and he respects you, this will be easier. (Or maybe not?)

I think this will definitely help in the long run. He seems pretty happy about the fact that she is interested in me instead of other alternatives.

Pressing the "pause" button on the sex with her - or at the very least the "slow motion" button - would be a good idea until this gets cleared up.

Definitely, definitely focusing on this. I am going to have to hold the line of no more hanging out at my place though, which is crappy. We came very close to crossing a line the other night and are terrifically attracted to one another. I don't think I've been this spiritually / physically attracted to another person before, actually. This is one worry of mine I have as far as hanging out as friends and maintaining a platonic friendship right now. I almost wonder if space apart is the answer, though I don't want her to feel abandoned.

Some clarification on OP:
Person #1 (lets say BOB): she started with monogs 2 years ago and 1 year ago said she wanted to be poly. She loves him very, very much. He is a mutual friend (acquaintance) and actually also a business partner. I don't know him well personally, but I do respect a lot of the work he does. I was very surprised at the lack of maturity with jealous texts though, and also at his unwillingness to meet in person or at least talk on the phone (I told him I am not comfortable talking about important matters over text). We did finally talk on the phone a short while, which was then followed by more texting :/

Person #2: (lets say JIM): She started dating this guy a few months ago. There are all sorts of red flags with this one - he was a work client, they rushed into it fast (sex the first day I think), hes wayyy older (twice her age), and he leaves the country for many months a year as well for leisure (hes wealthy) which sounds hard on her. uggh, the more I hear about this guy the less I like him. By "sexual favors" i mean that he refuses to give her oral sex because he is "saving himself" for mono partner. But she gives him oral and they have sex regularly. It sounds like the main reason these two are together is for the highly stimulating sex life (I've talked with her about us setting boundaries around sharing some details, which I already know more than I'd like to know about).

Person #3 (lets say SARAH): I did not mention in OP to save on length of all this, but she is (or was?) dating a woman for 2+ years as well. currently shes in a huge fight with BOB for sleeping with SARAH (sounds like some miscommunication of boundaries, i.e. threesome was suggested but one-on-one was not said to be okay). Their fight around that sounds complicated as hell though, and is not my business.

JIM sounds like a trainwreck that she maybe got into because she's looking for some sort of outlet or something she is not getting from the primary relationship. I did meet him once and he was very polite and a friend of mine says hes a nice guy, so I don't want to judge him too hard. The things she tells me sound so wrong though and I have encouraged her to think about the balance of needs being shared.

BOB is definitely another story. I really respect the effort he has put towards growth, but I also know he has a very large ego and seems pretty possessive and immature about this overall. I'm very worried about this being a "poly by force" kind of situation because he doesn't want to lose her. I'm also aware that he has boundary issues (I have experience and checked him on this before) which is no help for working through this stuff. and while I dont want to stick my head in business that isn't mine, I am really concerned about how him sleeping with SARAH has hurt her. I can't imagine coming between a bond of two women like that, for any reason. On the plus side of things, he is very intelligent and caring in some ways for sure, and seems have been an excellent influence on her life over the years with lots of education and support. I'm also wondering how much of his current immaturity is related to their giant fight atm.

It's certainly not your place to police her other relationships. If you think they are manipulating her, and/or actively seeking to control your own relationship with her, then it would be kind and compassionate to point out those behaviours to her.

Very, very true words. I have been very careful about this and trying to check myself over and over again and merely suggest that she look inside at her wants / needs / support. She has been very receptive to what I've shared and generally seems very grateful for it. But these are all her choices and not mine.

So yeah...could this be more messy? Lol. I guess it's just a "be her friend and wait and see" scenario." But I feel like the changes needed to embark on a healthy relationship with her could take years to develop, and that breaks my heart a little bit.

 

[MrFarFromRight]

Much thanks for the clarification, but you still haven't explained if it was Bob or Jim who 'enjoys fucking around and maybe equates that with "being poly" '. Whichever one is doing that is a hypocrite if they're resenting your relationship with MARGOT.

I've taken the unmitigated liberty of naming the sun in your little solar system. Grammatically, the sentence

I am really concerned about how him sleeping with SARAH has hurt her.

actually means that SARAH was the one hurt. But I guessed that you meant MARGOT. (Feel free to rechristen her if you wish.)

There was another sentence (must look for it) where your use of the word "her" (or "she") did have me stumped. Wait a minute... No: can't find it: maybe I just imagined it.

Bob's texting attacks were not nice. But let's hope that that was a gut reaction and that he can get used to your entry into the solar system. Have you any idea what he feels about Jim?

If Jim's fucking Margot, enjoying fellatio, but refusing cunnilingus until she goes mono with him, it's not a chastity/morality question. It is a bribery/blackmail/morality question... and a hypocritical, sexist double standard, to boot. If I knew Margot, I'd advise her not to expect a lot of cunnilingus even if she did go mono with him. But you'd better not say that.

Final point: the facts that Jim is twice Margot's age AND independently wealthy are definitely factors that influence here, unless I'm much mistaken. Such people tend to want to control others. And Jim's certainly trying to control Margot.

 

[Greg]

I've taken the unmitigated liberty of naming the sun in your little solar system

How about lets name her what you mention, SUN. I think thats a much nicer name.

Much thanks for the clarification, but you still haven't explained if it was Bob or Jim who 'enjoys fucking around and maybe equates that with "being poly" '. Whichever one is doing that is a hypocrite if they're resenting your relationship

Thanks for pointing this out. This sentence was directed towards BOB, but I must say, this might just be my frustration talking. BOB is very skillful words and talking the talk, but I don't think he is walking the walk. His wreckless sleeping with SARAH and his jealous texts do not sound anything like Polyamory to me. Just because he calls it that doesn't mean he's practicing it (a friend of mine who knows him a little also tends to agree with me here). That is why I'm pretty damn unhappy about him. He has a tendency to practice what he does not preach.

actually means that SARAH was the one hurt.

Yup, I screwed up the grammar. I meant SUN (formerly MARGOT) was hurt.

Bob's texting attacks were not nice. But let's hope that that was a gut reaction and that he can get used to your entry into the solar system. Have you any idea what he feels about Jim?

He's definitely not happy about Jim. I can see over time if he can get used to my presence within this thing, I guess that is all I can do. But I have some serious doubts.

If Jim's fucking Margot, enjoying fellatio, but refusing cunnilingus until she goes mono with him, it's not a chastity/morality question. It is a bribery/blackmail/morality question... and a hypocritical, sexist double standard, to boot. If I knew Margot, I'd advise her not to expect a lot of cunnilingus even if she did go mono with him. But you'd better not say that.

Final point: the facts that Jim is twice Margot's age AND independently wealthy are definitely factors that influence here, unless I'm much mistaken. Such people tend to want to control others. And Jim's certainly trying to control Margot.

100% agreed. As someone who advocates for feminism and equality very strongly, that information is making my stomach churn. But me trying to control her is certainly not going to help. She needs to decide for herself that it is an unhealthy dynamic.
==============
P.S. that is also one of my favorite Emma G quotes Have you read her autobiography? It's astoundingly good.

 

[MrFarFromRight]

P.S. that is also one of my favorite Emma G quotes Have you read her autobiography? It's astoundingly good.

No, I haven't. 2 nights ago, I was talking to 2 women (among a larger group sitting around a campfire) about Emma Goldman and both of them praised the autobiography. Unfortunately, I'm in Germany*, and they've got the book in a German translation. Aside from the fact that I always prefer reading books in the original version (when it's a language I speak; I have seen some real BLOOPERS in translations), German is a b****r of a language to follow (for a foreigner) when it comes to technical terms, finances, or philosophy. I assue that the Goldman book has a fair bit of the last...

Still, seeing as I have no immediate plans to travel to an English-speaking country, maybe I'll brave the German translation.

HMMM! An Emma Goldman fan and a wealthy older man as metamours. Are you sure that Sun's not just slumming with you?

* By the way, the main feminist magazine in Germany is called Emma.

 

[IndieSolo]

This person seems to "want to be / try" to live up to the poly that *she* wants, but his heart doesn't seem in it. I told him I would back off to give their relationship space and time to heal . . .

Why would you make that offer to him, without discussing it with her first? She's the one you're in a relationship with, not him. He's not in charge of her life, but you backed off as if to say he is. You completely dissed her autonomy. If I were her, I'd be really pissed off about that. Let her manage her other relationships. You just need to manage your own.

 

[WhatHappened]

My understanding of polyamory was that it's about CONSENSUAL relationships. Everybody agreeing with open relationships. It sounds to me like she's with two men who are tolerating this, but not truly happy with it, and therefore not really 'consenting' to it.

I would steer clear of this, if I were you.

 

[Magdlyn]

I was in a very similar situation last summer. I met a woman, we had a few dates, I became very fond of her. (I don't usually go head over heels into NRE, since I've been practicing poly for a decade and I have learned to be suspicious of it).

But, she was dating 2 men who were possessive and controlling with little respect for her autonomy or boundaries. One of them in particular, was pushing for living together and monogamy. She used to complain about them to me.

What they had going for them was: guy#1: a big cock and good sexual skills, enjoyable non-sexual dates, guy#2: good rope tying skills and a Domly manner that fit with her submissive tendencies.

After about 2 months and several dates with her, including sleepovers, I had to dump her, because she was handling things with those guys really poorly, submitting to their forcefulness and rudeness. I guess she liked the attention, it made her feel beautiful and desirable. They were aware of each other and competing for her attention. I felt kind of superfluous, despite her original pursuit of me.

We kept in touch a little through Facebook. I found out she dumped the grosser of the two guys (the ropes guy). Then she declared herself to be in a relationship with the other one, formally, with a FB announcement.

3 months later, she announced they were over. I didn't get back in touch with her, because I doubt her boundaries have become firm enough yet to want to bother.

Basically I only date people with good self awareness, self respect, etc. Or at least they are aware of things they need to work on, and are actively working on them. I'd back off from this lady, no matter how wonderful she seems. She's got issues!! Her men even sound vaguely dangerous.

 

[Greg]

Thanks for the advice everyone, I've read every post and all your input has been extremely valuable

I met up with her (SUN) yesterday and we had a really long talk (for about 4 hours, actually!) I learned a little more about what has been going on. But most importantly, I talked with her about a lot of things we've been discussing in this thread and made it clear that I cannot date her right now, but that I care about her a lot and am very interested in continuing our friendship.

As it turns out, both guys are pretty abusive in their own ways and I am learning more about this. Even BOB, her long time partner and (*formerly*) my friend. She mentioned a little while ago that he took advantage of her in bed, something she is still recovering from. He raged at her apparently, right after I got off the phone with him, for a very long time (2 days ago). Basically beating down her self-esteem and shaming her for being poly. I've seen small hints of this behavior in my interactions with him (read: very small) so I'm not surprised. The worst part is that he is a self-proclaimed 'feminist' that does a lot of work in the community. What a joke. a disgusting hypocrite.

After the big fight with BOB (she told him about how she felt violated by him, too, which is pretty brave I think) they are taking space. I'm kind of hoping that its going to end with them now, though I guess we will see.

Her other partner, JIM, told her that he was not okay with her dating me. She says she loves him, and she's only known me for a week, but to her great credit she basically said "too bad" and that she is going to see me if she wants to. I told her I was proud of her for being more courageous and standing up for what she believes in. They are "taking space" right now. Note, she told him this before I said I wanted to maintain a friendship with her. So it will be interesting if she maintains her poly beliefs / stance with him even though now me and her (SUN) are not dating.

She was really broken when I saw her, thought I was definitely breaking up with her, and that she had lost all the loves in her life. She was very introspective about this, and seems very aware that some big changes need to take place in her life. I finally ended up telling her (very careful, and not white-knightly) that I think those two relationships are actually abusive, and that I cannot date someone who is entangled in abusive relationships, and also the poly / monog problems.

Re: Magdlyn's story: Thank you for sharing, this was really helpful. I feel like I've seen a fair amount of this behavior in my life and I'm being very careful not to be the "fall guy" here. I spoke to her directly about this as well, and how I do not want to be picking up all the dead weight for these unhealthy relationships. I think what is making me stick this one out right now (instead of very understandably running for the hills) is that I can see she has a strong desire to change and grow. She is a very powerful woman that has developed a lot of tools in her life and is very capable of introspection. There is a big desire to change that I see in her, which she articulates clearly. It's just very clear that she has no one on her side right now, who can support her with poly beliefs and especially feminist/self-worth care so that she can feel her voice more. She says I'm helping her a lot with that. and I feel a lot better doing that as a friend than as her lover. It feels like a safe boundary for me now, but I am going to be careful to take care of myself through this very entangled process.

While this is a big mess, I do think it's still worthwhile. I wish I could share all the wonderful qualities about her and what attracts me to her so much, but I guess I'm just a little paranoid I am saying too much already on a public forum.

Anyway, I've been maintaining the sexual boundaries and that feels good. We are still cuddling and holding hands a lot though which, while definitely doesn't feel like "friends" seems okay for now. But I'm a little weary about keeping her "waiting" for me to "come around." I don't know how long her work will take but at least I've been clear about by needs and my concern for her well-being.

Why would you make that offer to him, without discussing it with her first? She's the one you're in a relationship with, not him. He's not in charge of her life, but you backed off as if to say he is. You completely dissed her autonomy. If I were her, I'd be really pissed off about that. Let her manage her other relationships. You just need to manage your own.

yep, you are right. I screwed this one up. I think because BOB was my friend and I really wanted to reduce his pain, I did something kind of inappropriate. She understood why though, and that my heart was in the right place. One thing I do disagree with though, is the part where you say I'm 'dissing' her autonomy. I did not agree to "back off" for his concern only. I was concerned for both BOB and SUN, and was thinking very much about both of them and their autonomy. BOB didn't influence my decision in any way, and she wasn't about to change my decision either. It's a choice I made for myself and my self-care. But I should have communicated to SUN first. Either way, in the future I know to not do this and communicate within my romantic relationships directly.

well, theres a lot to digest with all this. It's also troubling to hear that one of my best friends announced he is moving in with BOB. I need to be careful and mindful of the information SUN shared with me about his behavior. I will check in with her about it more when she is in a better place, because I am also concerned about the community at large in which he works and interacts with many women in a vulnerable fashion.

 

[Tinwen]

Why would you make that offer to him, without discussing it with her first? She's the one you're in a relationship with, not him.

... I should have communicated to SUN first. Either way, in the future I know to not do this and communicate within my romantic relationships directly.

I can easily see how telling your metamour you would back off could be appropriate. Depends on how the offer was phrased. While deciding for your partner is not nice, indicating a willingness to step back if the other relationship needs work first seems rather nice to me (and it doesn't mean you won't take your partners opinion in before actually making the decision).

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Greg,

It sounds like Sun's relationships with Jim and Bob are unhealthy, they're not a good match for her. If she wanted my advice I'd suggest breaking up with them, but, it's her choice and her business.

It's probably good that you took a step back from your relationship with her; the situation is a mess and you don't want to be entangled in it.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[MrFarFromRight]

Wow, Greg!

You've really been moving on this, haven't you?

I wrote a while back that I hoped that you would remain friends with Sun. Since then, I've read a few comments that seem to suggest that you should drop her, that she's trouble. This might turn out to be true, and you might end up getting hurt, but I'm glad that you're not turning your back on her while she's going through all this shit. What's a friend worth who isn't wiling to run the risk of being hurt?

I certainly don't get the idea that she's just playing around with you, despite my "slumming" joke.

It's true what others have written that she needs to sort out the tangle of her own relationships, think about why she's having relationships with men that blackmail and abuse her, trying to push her into kowtowing to their wishes, and telling her with whom she may relate and how. I repeat: she's got to work this out for herself and make her own choices. But that doesn't mean that she has to be friendless while she does so. Nor that the only friends she should have left are all anti-poly or want to manipulate her in their own way.

She's put both of these users/losers on hold, and appears willing to take an honest look at her pattern of relationships. Give her time and space and DON'T hint that you are the prize if she sorts herself out. But be there to lend an ear and a shoulder. (Occasional use: don't let her get dependent on you - as in unable to stand on her own 2 feet [Hey! Speaking of which, have a look at this: "The Princess Who Stood on Her Own Two Feet" by Jeanne Desy. {It comes out a real mess on my computer, but that's probably because my browser's outdated and all attempts to upgrade it fall flat.} But DON'T show it to Sun, because that would be a form of manipulation as well.]) Give her hugs - as needed or wanted - but of a platonic kind. If you wish, you may give her one from me.

If this were a Hollywood movie of the 50s or 60s, she'd end up in a relationship with you. If it were a feelgood indie movie of about now, she might end up with you and a few other lovers. And you with a few more. If it were TOO feelgood, you might all be mutual lovers: one big (?), happy polytribe. (As opposed to a diatribe. )

But - I don't know if you've ever noticed this - real life doesn't always work out like the movies.

In the meantime, be good to yourself.

 

[MrFarFromRight]

Hi again, Greg!

I'm going to modify some advice that I gave in my first reply to you:

p.s. If she's new to poly, you might consider showing her this thread and suggesting she sign up. It's FREE!!! And she can present her POV and get advice.

Modification: If she's considering poly for her future, but having a struggle, sorting out her wants and needs, I think that it would be kind of you (the act of a friend) to introduce her to this [modification arriving!] forum. She might benefit from advice to her on here.

If you're uneasy about letting her see this thread (because, for example, you want to take credit for coming up with all the great advice that I've been giving you ), you could ask her not to open any thread started by you... or just the one with this title.

This - of course - sets up a "Bluebeard Scenario"* and you may be forced to do away with her. But that's a risk that you'll have to take. As I wrote before, friends run risks.

And - if she wants to remain totally anonymous - advise her not to use the names Sun or Margot. (But advice might be better quality - for both of you - if you identified your pseudonyms as sharing a tangle [or tango].)

* I just coined that term, "Bluebeard Scenario", but I've just Googled it and there are 85 previous entries. Still, when you consider the fact that if you Google MrFarFromRight (first time I've done this, honest), you get 842 results (all to do with this web-site, as far as I can see), that "Bluebeard Scenario" is pretty nearly original.

 

[Bluebird]

HaHa MrFarFromRight! Scanning your post, my heart stopped when I thought you had posted "Bluebird Scenario." I'm like, I'm not so bad that people are naming terms after me now?! Whew. So happy to re-read and not be a warning to others.


Good job Greg, at trying to minimize the drama in your life. Sounds like this love interest needs to figure out what she really needs from a relationship, and move forward from there.

 

[IndieSolo]

. . . my heart stopped when I thought you had posted "Bluebird Scenario." I'm like, I'm not so bad that people are naming terms after me now?! Whew.

Oh, I believe more than a few of us here would LOVE to be in a Bluebird Scenario! I like the term - it's definitely a positive one!