Reasonable Boundaries

You may have to iron out your definitions of polyamory. To some, it's more casual and distant, everyone not knowing everyone else, or having to disclose everything. To others it's about the couple adding more deep meaningful relationships to create a poly family.
 
I have to go to work and have so much to say. I hate that. Stupid work.

polytriad said:
Rarely do I disagree with Redpepper, but here I do. You should think about why this boundary is something that you need before discussing it. What is the point of talking to someone about how you feel if they can just continue on like you didn't say anything? You already identified you differ in the realm of casual sex, right? How would you feel if you were told that it makes your partner uncomfortable that you didn't have causal sex the first time you meet someone?
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I already assumed that she had thought about why she needed some boundaries beforehand. I'm not so sure that just starting to talk about stuff is a bad idea. Often it makes us vulnerable to just express how we feel without really knowing why, but because we are in the emotions of it at the time. That way a process can occur and we can get to the bottom of it together. Boundaries should always be fluid, I think, and this should be assumed, said, and then assumed from there on in. If she is struggling, then she has every right to say so, no?

Other notes with no time to quote people:
I think that often some people are not as confident or don't have the same depth of love as others might for others. To think that we should blow off the feelings we have is dangerous, in my opinion. I don't think sucking it up and just dealing is ever a way to create more depth and connection in our lives. That comes with struggle and working on things like boundaries.

I find that some of the poly community are big on bowling over people's jealousy and other hard emotions so that they can have freedom to be with whomever, above all. While I admire this to some extent, I wonder about the depth and quality of the relationship, whether or is simply low grade. Where is the love in blowing off the emotions of those that we say we care about?

I have been thinking about this, and studying it a lot lately. (See my blog from the last week or so.) I think we should always make ourselves as vulnerable as we feel comfortable to others in order to achieve the most out of our life. If we don't, and try to save face all the time, then we are left with low-grade experiences and walking through life numb.

Glow is struggling and hurt. Why should she not see if she can ease that, with her partner's help? If he is not willing to look at this with her, and is not willing to respect her feelings, then I wonder if he is a good match for her.
 
redpepper said:
I find that some of the poly community is big on bowling over peoples jealousy and other hard emotions so that they can have freedom to be with whomever above all. While I admire this to one extent I wonder about the depth of relationship, the quality of relationship and whether or not the relationship is simply low grade. Where is the love in blowing off the emotions of those that we say we love?
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It seems that people take their OWN jealousy seriously, but when it comes to a partner's jealousy, it's viewed simply as an obstacle or an "elephant in the room" that the partner "needs to deal with" so that the person can move their social life forward. "How can I help my partner with his or her jealousy so that I can go do what I want without coming home to drama?" It should be "How can I be the best partner I can be so that even when he or she feels jealous, he/she feels safe discussing it with me?"

I've noticed that Rarechild and Catfish are a good example of the latter. There are far too many "good examples" of the former to mention.
 
Ariakas said:
Forcing someone to be who they aren't for the sake of comfort just feels wrong to me. (It would be like my wife forcing me to stop having female friends, which wouldn't happen, ever.) She is describing a fundamental difference in how they socialize.
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Praise Aphrodite! I've never understood boundaries in a relationship. It's not fair to your other partner(s) that there relationship is being dictated to appease another persons comfort level. I really think this has more to do with insecurities or other internal issues, whether its jealousy, fear, paranoia, etc. Matter of fact, my wife and I have some boundaries that I disagree with, but it is due to admitted insecurities, and we are working on that with our dating partner.

I've been in situations where there were boundaries, and it's not a good feeling to be limited in how you can express your feelings to one of your "multi-love" partners. Love without limits, right?

All in all, if you can get your partner(s) to genuinely agree, then any boundaries can be set and would be considered reasonable. Though I disagree, I thought it be good to answer your question.

Spread the love,
PT
 
neohio44122 said:
I don't understand the concept of boundaries. I am mono and my wife is poly. My wife's relationship with her boyfriend is their relationship.
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Hi Neohio. I hope you don't read this as a challenge or debate, but I would like to call on this comment to try to explore a point.

By saying you don't understand the concept of boundaries, I am assumng that that doesn't mean your wife has an open slate to do whatever with her boyfriend. What if they, on the spur of the moment, want to engage another couple in sex? Would you not expect to be consulted in that? Wanting to be consulted can be seen as a boundary if that is the case. I understand not trying to limit what partners can do sexually within the confines of their relationship, but do you extend that absence of boundaries to whoever they want to engage with, whenever?
 
redpepper said:
I have to go to work and so much to say. I hate that. Stupid work.
I'd assumed that she'd thought about why she needed some boundaries beforehand. I'm not so sure that just starting to talk about stuff is a bad idea. Often it makes us vulnerable to just express how we feel without really knowing why, but because we are in the emotions of it at the time. That way a process can occur and we can get to the bottom of it together. Boundaries should always be fluid, and this should be assumed, said, and then assumed from there on in. If she is struggling, then she has every right to say so, no?
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At work now and it sure sucks! LOL Luckily, I run the IT department so I'm not limited to what I do with my computer.

I agree that discussing it without the expectation of change to get down to the bottom of why boundaries should be set with your partner(s) is an awesome idea. Vulnerability is a precious gift to be given to deserving people, and I'm all for it. I fee like vulnerability is a very close second to giving someone your love. ;)
 
Having an open relationship of whatever dynamic is seen as a gift by a lot of people. In enjoying that gift, is it not too much to take into account the emotional impact of our actions on those we supposedly love? And if those people we supposedly love need reassurances through things that we see as having temporarily restricting confines on our ability to enjoy that freedom, are we so caught up in our right to do whatever that we discount their emotions? Do we leave them to deal with their shit on their own? If this is the case, than there are definitely very different concepts of what loving someone means.

If a person looks at another person and says "Hey, that's your issue, deal with it," and follows that up with "I love you," than the person being spoken to should seek help building their self confidence and find someone who actually does love them.

Then again, if you are simply engaging in multiple relationships on surface levels, I get it. It's something without limits, but I doubt it's love.
 
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MonoVCPHG said:
By saying you don't understand the concept of boundaries, I am assuming that that doesn't mean your wife has an open slate to do whatever with her boyfriend. What if they, on the spur of the moment, want to engage another couple in sex? Would you not expect to be consulted in that? Wanting to be consulted can be seen as a boundary, if that is the case. I understand not trying to limit what partners can do sexually within the confines of their relationship, but do you extend that absence of boundaries to whoever they want to engage whenever?
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Aha! here is an example of a reasonable boundary/standard. Being informed of an activity that involves people not inside the poly relationship type you have is not limiting. Although, depending on the relationship-type, certain things might already be known factors. "Talk to me before you discipline my children," "Let me know if you meet someone new," "Fidelity within our V," and so on, these also skate on the line of standards. I have standards, but I don't consider them boundaries. I'd expect my partner to want to communicate with me, without the expectation of change, but with the hope of tackling things as a team. Being consulted about some activities sounds more like a standard to me. :)

Love without limits,
PT
 
My main objection to the OP's boundaries is that she isn't comfortable with the poly situation in the first place, and the proposed boundaries don't actually address the underlying problem. This makes the boundaries arbitrary. I don't think they will help until the underlying issues are resolved, one way or another. Rules are not a substitute for deep examination when it comes to dealing with insecurities. I believe there is such a thing as reasonable boundaries, but they must have coherent reasons behind them.
 
Glow, I get where you're coming from, having a hard time wrapping your head around your boyfriend finding love in different ways than you do. I personally don't see a problem with setting a temporary boundary, with the condition that you are going to work on why casual sex is a trigger for you.

Set a date to revisit the boundary. Be open to adjusting it as you feel more comfortable in yourself. This goes back to moving at the speed of the slowest person. It really is okay to not be comfortable with things right off the bat, as long as you're willing to work on yourself, and talk to each other, so that you can both be happy and comfortable in the relationship.
 
Penny said:
My main objection to the OP's boundaries is that she isn't comfortable with the poly situation in the first place and the proposed boundaries don't actually address the underlying problem.
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I agree. I would suggest that she googles to see if there is an active poly group in her area. We joined a poly group years ago. They helped me with my issues.
 
Penny said:
My main objection to the OP's boundaries is that she isn't comfortable with the poly situation in the first place and the proposed boundaries don't actually address the underlying problem.

This makes the boundaries arbitrary.

I don't think that they will help until the underlying issues are resolved, one way or another. Rules are not a substitute for deep examination when it comes to dealing with insecurities.

I believe there is such a thing as reasonable boundaries, but they must have coherent reasons behind them.
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Hence making the boundaries temporary with a firm date to revisit them and adjust. This way it give time for the person struggling to do that deep examination and address the underlying problem. If one feels that they are drowning in a situation they aren't going to be able to tackle the big questions at best and at worse they are going to become more and more defencive and set up more and more walls.
 
So, most of what we are talking about, imo, is the difference between boundaries, compromises and rules. They are all very different and something I have thought about and talked about a lot. I think I will write about it on my blog for further reference, as I seem to feel the need to repeat myself quite often and then just cut and paste :D. Of course, you all don't have to agree with me, but I have found breaking it down has really helped establish for me what I am really talking about and has helped me to describe to whom I'm with what I want to discuss and negotiate.

Compromise is what we do before a boundary is agreed upon. It's the space between something coming up, and getting to the point of comfortably sitting in an established relationship dynamic. It's the space where everything stops and no one moves forward until there is communication. It isn't comfortable for one or the other, but isn't meant to be. The goal is that discussion/communication will happen until there is a balance of semi-comfort for both parties (or more) so that there can be movement forward in a relationship.

Boundaries are what is established at the end of negotiation and compromise. It's the end result that is known to be fluid, but that I can sit in and try out for a while, knowing that my partner is somewhat comfortable and willing to see if something works. Quite often, the new boundary is like a young seedling that needs nurturing together in order to grow into a strong tree that everyone is comfortable with and needs no more discussion about. When negotiations and communication has occurred to the point of a boundary being set, I know that my partners feel comfortable in the knowledge that they have been heard, respected, considered and cared for. I should come out of the discussion feeling the same way, and if I don't, or they don't, then there is still a compromise going on and I still need to encourage talking. Sometimes a break is needed before jumping in again, as it is quite exhausting.

Rules are ultimatums and completely off the table. I have never done well in a relationship where there are rules (unless I am setting them in terms of BDSM). Otherwise they have no place in my relationships. I will not be with someone who attempts to set rules, unless they are willing to turn to communication and negotiation that would bring us to compromising with the future goal of setting boundaries that work for us. If they are unwilling, then I will not stay with them. Simple as that. My life is my own and they will not be a part of it.

Anyway, I hope that helps, Glow.
 
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MonoVCPHG said:
Hi Neohio. I hope you don't read this as a challenge or debate, but I would like to call on this comment to try to explore a point.

By saying you don't understand the concept of boundaries, I am assuming that that doesn't mean your wife has an open slate to do whatever with her boyfriend. What if they, in the spur of the moment, want to engage another couple in sex? Would you not expect to be consulted in that? Wanting to be consulted can be seen as a boundary, if that is the case. I understand not trying to limit what partners can do sexually within the confines of their relationship, but do you extend that absence of boundaries to whoever they want to engage whenever?
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My wife is not into casual sex, so that wouldn't happen. She did go to a Jack and Jill party with her boyfriend and masturbated with two other couples. She told me afterwards. I was fine with it.

polytriad said:
Aha! here is an example of a reasonable boundary/standard. Being informed of an activity that involves people not inside of whatever poly relationship type you have is not limiting. I have standards, but I don't consider those boundaries. I'd expect my partner to want to communicate to me without the expectation of change, but in the hope of tackling things as a team. So being consulted about some activities sounds more like a standard to me.
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I agree with polytriad. Standards are not boundaries. Sometimes poly people treat a third person like they are irrelevant. But they have needs too.

I try to make my metamour feel welcome and invite them into our lives. We both love the same person, and she loves both of us.
 
Derbylicious said:
OP I get where you're coming from and having a hard time wrapping your head around your boyfriend finding love in different ways than you do. I personally don't think there's a problem setting a temporary boundary under the condition that you are going to work on why casual sex is a trigger for you.

Set a date to revisit the boundary and be open to adjusting it as you feel more comfortable in yourself. This goes back to moving at the speed of the slowest person. It really is ok to not be comfortable with things right off the bat, as long as you're willing to work on yourself and talk to each other so that you can both be happy and comfortable in the relationship.
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I think maybe a temp boundry is a nice idea. its good to see things in shades of grey
 
redpepper said:
So most of what we are talking about to me is the difference between boundaries, compromises and rules... all very different and something I have thought about and talked about a lot. I think I will write about it on my blog for further reference as I seem to feel the need to repeat myself quite often and then just cut and paste :D. Of course, you all don't have to agree with me, but I have found breaking it down has really helped establish for me what I am really talking about and has helped me to describe to who I'm with what it is that I want to discuss in negotiating.

Compromise to me is what we do before a boundary is agreed upon. It's the space between something coming up and getting to the point of comfortably sitting in an established relationship dynamic. It's the space where everything stops and no one moves forward until there is communication. It isn't comfortable for one or the other, but isn't meant to be... what the goal is that discussion/communication will happen until there is a balance of semi-comfort for both parties (or more) so that there can be movement forward in a relationship.

Boundaries for me are what is established at the end of negotiation of compromise. It's the end result that is known to be fluid but that I can sit in and try out for a while, knowing that my partner is somewhat comfortable and willing to see if something works. Quite often the new boundary is like a young seedling that needs nurturing together in order to grow into a strong tree that everyone is comfortable with and needs no more discussion about. When negotiations and communication has occurred to the point of a boundary being set, I know that my partner (s) feel comfortable in the knowledge that they have been heard, respected, considered and cared for. I should come out of the discussion feeling the same way and if I don't or they don't, then there is still a compromise going on and I still need to encourage talking... sometimes a break is needed before jumping in again as it is quite exhausting.

Rules are ultimatums and completely off the table for me. I have never done well in a relationship where their are rules, unless I am setting them, in terms of BDSM :D otherwise they have no place in my relationships. I will not be with someone who attempts to set rules, unless they are willing to turn to communication and negotiation that would bring us to compromising with the future goal of setting boundaries that work for the us. If they are unwilling then I will not stay with them. Simple as that. My life is my own and they will not be a part of it.

Anyway, hope that helps Glow?
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Wow THis is REALLY helpful. I didnt realize what a world of difference it makes to distinct these rules from boundries and compromises. Do you mind if I email this post to P and N? or I can just summarize... that works fine as well !
 
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