Reassurance and Hierarchy

[polyboo]

So, I'm trying to figure out how to provide reassurance to my bf...

I met my husband when I was mono and still looking for "the one"... and if anyone could be my "one" would be him. My husband is basically the perfect nesting partner for me. He's attractive, responsible, has a great job, funny, organized, intelligent, and cleaner than almost any other guy I've ever met. He's everything I ever wanted in a husband and so much more.

Not that it's a competition, but my bf feels like he can't compete. He lives paycheck to paycheck, he has less formal education than either me or my husband, he's not super tidy and organized, we haven't been together nearly as long as my husband and I have...and he's said that because of these sorts of things he feels like he'll always be "less important" than my husband and that if I didn't have my husband, he's not the kind of guy that I would be in a relationship with. He thinks, if push came to shove, I'm going to choose my husband over him because he could never give me a lot of the things that I'm accustomed to.

And yes, it's true...if I was looking for "the one" my boyfriend would not be it. If someone forced me (god forbid) to choose between them, I would choose my husband. Still, I don't want my bf to feel like that makes him less important to me. I try to tell him that I want him to feel like he's an equal partner and that even if our lives aren't entangled in the way my husband's and mine are, that doesn't make me love him and care about him any less and it doesn't make his needs any less important...but at this point I'm just at a loss as to what to say when this topic comes up. I want to give him something more reassuring than basically, "you're right but it doesn't matter"...

Any insight or advice welcome.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

So, I'm trying to figure out how to provide reassurance to my bf...

I met my husband when I was mono and still looking for "the one"... and if anyone could be my "one" would be him. My husband is basically the perfect nesting partner for me. He's attractive, responsible, has a great job, funny, organized, intelligent, and cleaner than almost any other guy I've ever met. He's everything I ever wanted in a husband and so much more.

Not that it's a competition, but my bf feels like he can't compete. He lives paycheck to paycheck, he has less formal education than either me or my husband, he's not super tidy and organized, we haven't been together nearly as long as my husband and I have...and he's said that because of these sorts of things he feels like he'll always be "less important" than my husband and that if I didn't have my husband, he's not the kind of guy that I would be in a relationship with. He thinks, if push came to shove, I'm going to choose my husband over him because he could never give me a lot of the things that I'm accustomed to.

And yes, it's true...if I was looking for "the one" my boyfriend would not be it. If someone forced me (god forbid) to choose between them, I would choose my husband. Still, I don't want my bf to feel like that makes him less important to me. I try to tell him that I want him to feel like he's an equal partner and that even if our lives aren't entangled in the way my husband's and mine are, that doesn't make me love him and care about him any less and it doesn't make his needs any less important...but at this point I'm just at a loss as to what to say when this topic comes up. I want to give him something more reassuring than basically, "you're right but it doesn't matter"...

Any insight or advice welcome.

My advice to you is to have relationships with people who you value for who they are. I try to ensure that the people I would call partners are people I'd be happy to have in my life forever and still be happy; even if they were the only ones. Most of that means ensuring I generally have a well rounded life and my romantic/sexual partners are part of that life but not the only thing. The rest means that if I feel that a relationship would have little chance of viability if it weren't for us having other partners, then I know something isn't quite right and that is likely to prevent us being as happy as we could be.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi polyboo,

In most cases it is best to be honest, so, I would suggest you say, something like, "If someone forced me to choose between you and my husband, I admit I would choose my husband. But I would really, really hate to be forced to choose."

It may be helpful to compose a list of things you value about your boyfriend, then, share that list with your boyfriend. You have mentioned (in this thread) the things that you don't so much care for about him. What are some of the things that you do care for? What attracted you to him in the first place?

Just some thoughts,
Kevin T.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you struggle.

FWIW? Here's what I think. I mean it kindly, ok?

Not that it's a competition, but my bf feels like he can't compete. He lives paycheck to paycheck, he has less formal education than either me or my husband, he's not super tidy and organized, we haven't been together nearly as long as my husband and I have...and he's said that because of these sorts of things he feels like he'll always be "less important" than my husband and that if I didn't have my husband, he's not the kind of guy that I would be in a relationship with. He thinks, if push came to shove, I'm going to choose my husband over him because he could never give me a lot of the things that I'm accustomed to.

Does your BF even like himself? Why's BF sitting around punching holes in his bucket like this?

Because you could work and work to fill his bucket up with reassurances, but it will only be temporary if he's punching new holes in it and it just drains away again. Like you are trying to fill the never ending black hole.

Have you asked BF what he needs to actually BE reassured? Can he list it? Can you provide it?

Because it's just the Universe that you met husband first. That relationship will always be older than the one with BF. How many years do you have to clock before BF accepts your relationship with him as "solid?" 2? 5? 10? That is achievable. Shy of you dumping husband (which you aren't gonna do) BF rship being "the oldest one you have" is NOT achievable.

He lives paycheck to paycheck, he has less formal education than either me or my husband, he's not super tidy and organized,

Why's he beating himself over this? He may not be able to change his job/paycheck situation as easily as cleaning his home, but c'mon. If he wants to learn to tidy his home better or be more organized, he can. If he wants to learn new stuff, he can.

Can you list what you like and appreciate about BF? Why are you even with him? You seem to be saying you are with him because...

• you love him
• you care about him
• even though he's not your nesting partner or legal spouse, he's valuable to you

Can he HEAR you when you say that and actually BELIEVE it?

Or is this a case where he has a core belief that he sucks, and nothing you say will penetrate that? He views the world looking for "proof" of his suckage?

That's a heavy burden, and if he wants to move past that he might need help other than his dating partner (you) reassuring him. Is he willing to see a counselor if that is what this is about?

I want to give him something more reassuring than basically, "you're right but it doesn't matter"...

If it DOES matter to the BF that he's not a nesting partner and he will never be your legal spouse? Don't say it doesn't matter. Because it matters to HIM. It may not matter to you, but it matters to HIM. See him in HIS context.

Could ask him if this an obstacle to him being happy participating in the relationship. Ask him what he plans to do to move past it. His happiness is his job.

Why is BF with YOU?

Why's he in this V? Does he love poly? Or was it like he was afraid to be alone and "had to take whatever he could get that came along" even though it's not what he really wanted? And now he's emotioanlly attached to you, and doesn't want to lose that. But this still isn't a model he wants so he feels stuck. Is that it?

If he's stuck on this broken record? Like just going on and on about how he sucks? And he isn't willing to see a counselor to let that belief go?

It may be that you simply have to be firmer. It's not about you reassuring him, but you taking a step back so it bugs YOU less.

Learning to detach from it when he's in a funk. Let it be his funk to solve. Still love him and care about him, but accept he's got whatever it is he has that makes him go in a funk sometimes -- anxiety, depression, whatever. And if he brings you his funk looking for a bucket refill you say "Sorry, hon. I helped once already. My emotional boundary is that I only help you once per funk. After that, you have to ask other people for help."

Because you can help contribute to a partner's well being, but it isn't your job to perpetually prop him up or do never ending emotional labor refilling his bucket because he chooses to keep participating in a relationship model that makes him feel yucky and/or he keeps tipping his own bucket over and doesn't get professional health care to help him with that.

You cannot be like some sort of free therapist or the never ending bucket filler. That's draining for you.

If taking a step back when he's in a funk is not enough, you may have to end it with him. So YOU get relief if this comes up over and over.

Galagirl

 

[polyboo]

Hi polyboo,

In most cases it is best to be honest, so, I would suggest you say, something like, "If someone forced me to choose between you and my husband, I admit I would choose my husband. But I would really, really hate to be forced to choose."

It may be helpful to compose a list of things you value about your boyfriend, then, share that list with your boyfriend. You have mentioned (in this thread) the things that you don't so much care for about him. What are some of the things that you do care for? What attracted you to him in the first place?

Just some thoughts,
Kevin T.

Thanks Kevin, this is exactly what I do. And honestly, my bf likes not feeling the pressure to have to be my "everything" and the freedom to not have to fulfill the stereotypical male role of being the "provider"... He honestly isn't really upset by the fact that he's not my nesting partner. I think the two things that are really going on here are 1. Not enough time has passed for my bf to not have at least some fear that my husband is going to try to tell me to end the relationship and 2. I feel icky admitting that part of the reason I'm with my husband is that he provides for me and allows me to live the life I have. I shouldn't feel bad about that, but I do sometimes.

 

[ElMango]

I was lucky that B never really felt super insecure about his place in the relationship V. I also am I firm believer that relationships do need time to develop and grow and gain 'importance' or raise up on the hierarchy.

Now that we all live together, and have for a year and a half, and have a wedding with B planned, they're pretty equal on the pyramid. Z and I are legally married, we have a mortgage together-those are really legal binding connections and entanglements. We've been together 11 years. That does carry more 'weight' or well...entaglements...than a 2ish year relationship! Legally, financially. It's really unavoidable since it all happened before we discovered poly.

B knows this, and HE had to do the work to accept that. It was HIS job to understand those facts and really, how emotions work. People simply AREN'T as important after 6 months vs 10 years. You're not GOING to pick the 6 month one if you had to!

In the end, trusting your words and being secure in his place is really something he needs to work on.

Right now, if I had to pick, EMOTIONALLY I really couldn't. 100% cannot. Logically, my entaglements with Z mean picking him is basically a must. I'm running under the assumption I wont ever have to.

Now onto how /I/ helped him with that.

I was honest, but kindly so. I explained the legal and financial entaglements. B is not as financially well off as Z and I. He knows this; we all do. We just had to discuss that. I never phrased things as 'I'll make this choice', I just explained the facts and answered his questions.

When I was sure I wanted this to last forever with B, I told him. When he moved in, we talked about how it would work money wise. When he told me he'd marry me if he could, we made a way we could get 'married' (not legally unfortunately, but it's going ot be emotional and intimate and beatuiful and it will be enough). When I loved him I told him; when I want to say I love you, I tell him so. I make sure to keep everything as equal as possible between them. We have fostered relationships based on respect and love even between them!

Talking and honesty are the best things for these issues.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

"I feel icky admitting that part of the reason I'm with my husband is that he provides for me and allows me to live the life I have. I shouldn't feel bad about that, but I do sometimes."

IMO, that's something to feel icky about. I think your boyfriend might pick up on some of your values and that makes him insecure a bit not being able to provide the things you value.

I really promote being independent,providing what you need/want for yourselves, and loving people for who they are,not what they can do for you.

 

[polyboo]

"I feel icky admitting that part of the reason I'm with my husband is that he provides for me and allows me to live the life I have. I shouldn't feel bad about that, but I do sometimes."

IMO, that's something to feel icky about. I think your boyfriend might pick up on some of your values and that makes him insecure a bit not being able to provide the things you value.

I really promote being independent,providing what you need/want for yourselves, and loving people for who they are,not what they can do for you.

This is honestly a pretty presumptive and judgmental response. I never said anything about why my husband provides for me and it really isn't cool of you to go shaming people when you know basically nothing about their situation. It's people like you that make me feel guilty for not having a "real job" even though I have nothing to feel bad about. To have someone suggest that I love my husband for what he can do for me and not who he is is insulting, not just to me, but to him as well. I know that this "independence" theme is a common theme among a lot of poly people and I get it to some extent, but I value doing what makes the most sense for everyone in a family over maintaining as much independence as possible and I'm not going to feel bad about that. So I guess thank you for, though not in the way intended, ridding me of my second concern.

 

[polyboo]

I was lucky that B never really felt super insecure about his place in the relationship V. I also am I firm believer that relationships do need time to develop and grow and gain 'importance' or raise up on the hierarchy.

Now that we all live together, and have for a year and a half, and have a wedding with B planned, they're pretty equal on the pyramid. Z and I are legally married, we have a mortgage together-those are really legal binding connections and entanglements. We've been together 11 years. That does carry more 'weight' or well...entaglements...than a 2ish year relationship! Legally, financially. It's really unavoidable since it all happened before we discovered poly.

B knows this, and HE had to do the work to accept that. It was HIS job to understand those facts and really, how emotions work. People simply AREN'T as important after 6 months vs 10 years. You're not GOING to pick the 6 month one if you had to!

In the end, trusting your words and being secure in his place is really something he needs to work on.

Right now, if I had to pick, EMOTIONALLY I really couldn't. 100% cannot. Logically, my entaglements with Z mean picking him is basically a must. I'm running under the assumption I wont ever have to.

Now onto how /I/ helped him with that.

I was honest, but kindly so. I explained the legal and financial entaglements. B is not as financially well off as Z and I. He knows this; we all do. We just had to discuss that. I never phrased things as 'I'll make this choice', I just explained the facts and answered his questions.

When I was sure I wanted this to last forever with B, I told him. When he moved in, we talked about how it would work money wise. When he told me he'd marry me if he could, we made a way we could get 'married' (not legally unfortunately, but it's going ot be emotional and intimate and beatuiful and it will be enough). When I loved him I told him; when I want to say I love you, I tell him so. I make sure to keep everything as equal as possible between them. We have fostered relationships based on respect and love even between them!

Talking and honesty are the best things for these issues.

It was nice to have you put my feelings into words I've been fumbling around...This is exactly what I needed to hear. I'm so happy that things have worked out so well between all of you guys and I hope I get to tell a similar story in the future. <3 Stay awesome, ElMango!

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

It's a nice thought but lots of people leave a long term partner for someone new. It's just as possible that after years and years, the new person you've met is more compatible for the person you are now.

Polyamory theoretically means that you don't have to swap these partners but in reality, a new relationship with someone more compatible with the person you are now can sometimes highlight the flaws in the existing relationship to a point where it isn't viable to continue. Especially if entanglements in the old relationship obstruct entanglement in the new relationship.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

This is honestly a pretty presumptive and judgmental response. I never said anything about why my husband provides for me and it really isn't cool of you to go shaming people when you know basically nothing about their situation. It's people like you that make me feel guilty for not having a "real job" even though I have nothing to feel bad about. To have someone suggest that I love my husband for what he can do for me and not who he is is insulting, not just to me, but to him as well. I know that this "independence" theme is a common theme among a lot of poly people and I get it to some extent, but I value doing what makes the most sense for everyone in a family over maintaining as much independence as possible and I'm not going to feel bad about that. So I guess thank you for, though not in the way intended, ridding me of my second concern.

All I can say is that so far, from the things you've said, I would feel pretty useless if I was your boyfriend. It is like you're only with him because you've got your husband and you choose to highlight that your husband provides for you, things like that.

You do seem very motivated by what people can do for you rather than who they are.

If material stuff isn't important to you and you'd happily go out and earn your keep by working outside of the home, talk about those things and then maybe your boyfriend wouldn't feel like he is worthless to you as anything other than a bit of fun. Just from what you've said here, that's exactly how I'd feel if I were him.

 

[1234567]

I think what’s reassuring is good boundaries.

That you are honest with him so he knows you will be.

That you are kind in this honesty.

That you help things get focused on the healthy side of things

That you can handle stuff- and show confidence you can.



If he’s hearing half-truths, that’s not reassuring. That sets him up for more of the same.

If he’s obsessing about comparing - and you’re furthering that— that’s not reassuring, because you’re going to spend time focusing on another relationship.l, not yours, both when you’re together, and when you’re apart.

Here are some reassuring things you could say— if they are true:

Spending time with you is vital to me, and I see that continuing no matter the status of my other relationships.

I really enjoy you. (Perhaps with specifics)

What we have is special.

I can’t speak to what would have been. But I can speak to how things are now. You feel like home to me.

OR:

Being married to x is part of what let me meet you, and I’m so grateful that was a possibility because you mean a lot to me.

OR: I might not have married you if I met you earlier. But I know for sure I want to date you now.

Here’s the thing about what he’s asking: he’s probably seeking answers about limitations of love, affection, commitment, and meaning that the other relationship imposes, either because of hierarchy or because of choice on your part.

What he needs is truth.

What you need to do is make that truth positive.

Reduce hierarchy.

Increase your ability to make meaningful relationships.

Increase your ability to be there for him, even when you are physically with your partner- or you are with him and your other partner is in need/want of him.

The best reassurance is a solid relationship, and that being expressed in words and actions.

 

[icesong]

My advice to you is to have relationships with people who you value for who they are. I try to ensure that the people I would call partners are people I'd be happy to have in my life forever and still be happy; even if they were the only ones. Most of that means ensuring I generally have a well rounded life and my romantic/sexual partners are part of that life but not the only thing. The rest means that if I feel that a relationship would have little chance of viability if it weren't for us having other partners, then I know something isn't quite right and that is likely to prevent us being as happy as we could be.

I'm not sure that's a true statement - I don't think I would necessarily be happy with either of my partners as an *only* partner. It's just not how I'm wired. So yes, neither of them are viable without us having (or at least having the potential to have) other partners. That's not necessarily "not right".

 

[ElMango]

I'm not sure that's a true statement - I don't think I would necessarily be happy with either of my partners as an *only* partner. It's just not how I'm wired. So yes, neither of them are viable without us having (or at least having the potential to have) other partners. That's not necessarily "not right".

I agree.

Also, it's not accurate to discount the fact that having financial security DOES affect peoples choices. SHOULD someone stay with another person JUST BECAUSE they provide for them financially? Fuck no. If you do that you're using a person and that's wrong. If you love them, and want to be with them and have a relationship; then of course finances influence choices.

Being with someone who is bad for you, even if it is just financially, is a strain most people can't actually afford. Literally.

It's okay to say "my current NP relationship, which I love and cherish, does give me the ability to have another relationship, which I also love and cherish, with a person who otherwise I couldn't really have a relationship with."

So long as your words, actions, and emotions, are saying "I love you, I cherish you, and you are as much an equal as can be" then, so long as you're open about finances and how the entaglements work, that's all you can do.

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

I'm not sure that's a true statement - I don't think I would necessarily be happy with either of my partners as an *only* partner. It's just not how I'm wired. So yes, neither of them are viable without us having (or at least having the potential to have) other partners. That's not necessarily "not right".

Oh definitely. I don't mean you should be able to be happily monogamous with them, but, if I went down to one partner and life meant I never met another one, it wouldn't be a tragedy. I'd still be able to be extremely happy.

What I'm trying to say is that I don't think it's wise to be in a situation where if one of your relationships suddenly ended, it would leave such a massive gap because your other relationship(s) meet so few needs.

 

[dingedheart]

I met my husband when I was mono and still looking for "the one"... and if anyone could be my "one" would be him. My husband is basically the perfect nesting partner for me. He's attractive, responsible, has a great job, funny, organized, intelligent, and cleaner than almost any other guy I've ever met. He's everything I ever wanted in a husband and so much more.

How long were you married when you discovered there wasn’t going to be a “ one “ for you ? And was that the reason for opening your marriage or was it something else ?

Does your husband also date and or have a steady partner or partners ?? And did he ever think in terms of “ the one “.


Have you discussed all this with him and if so has given his side of that very question? Meaning the personal quality check list and competition ??





How to overcome competition aspect. How did you meet? What was the attraction....what activities bond you together. I’m assuming it’s going to be different than your husband. I’d highlight that or highlight the romantic or chemistry and stay clear of the check list stuff.

 

[Marcus]

I think what’s reassuring is good boundaries.
That you are honest with him so he knows you will be.
That you are kind in this honesty.
That you help things get focused on the healthy side of things
That you can handle stuff- and show confidence you can.

I just love it when people say things like this.
There are some very simple concepts that, if we can really embrace them, will give our associations a chance of thriving.

It's hard to trust someone who doesn't take care of themselves. People who doormat are difficult to trust, because they consistently show weak and inconsistent character.
It's hard to confide in someone who doesn't receive information well. What is my motivation to be honest with them, if they roll your eyes, pout, cry, or punch a wall? It's easier just to lie to those people.