Religion, politics, sex .. and other taboo subjects

"If you insist that Trump would have to be racist to say or do whatever awful thing he just said or did, you are giving him too much credit. Trump is just randomly and bizarrely terrible. Sometimes his random and bizarre terribleness is about white people, and then we laugh it off. Sometimes it’s about minorities, and then we interpret it as racism."

I don't think anyone cares if trump is really a racist versus whether he's really not a racist, but just likes to appoint folks like Stephen K. Bannon as his chief strategist and all around top head dude. Who cares what trump believes or feels?! We care about what he DOES.

"Hey, hey! Hey ho! This sicko dude has got to go!" ... as they say it on the streets.
 
And what others feel emboldened to do based upon his election.

Only time will tell if people really behave badly because of that. I think that they wouldn't right NOW because in the immediate aftermath, you hear about so much anger and people accuse trump supporters of being deplorable and all of this, and they kind of want to prove the point that it's those damn liberals who will go protest, riot, beat up poor innocent trump supporters, etc. Get some videos of black people beating up white people. Get this illusion in place that trump's people are the civilized ones.

And then... justification for their retribution. They'll see it as minorities having "proven" that they are thugs and criminals. Really if the alt right folks were smart, they'd stage some video of minorities abusing white trump supporters. You end up with a nation destabilized and some kind of war, and both sides denying having started it.

Me...I've got my own sense of horror and my own reasons. His misogyny puts me in a place of remembering some of the incidents I've seen and experienced, and stories I could tell. To me, trump stands for "boys will be boys and females aren't people." That alone is reason enough for me to hate his guts.
 
And then... justification for their retribution. They'll see it as minorities having "proven" that they are thugs and criminals. Really if the alt right folks were smart, they'd stage some video of minorities abusing white trump supporters. You end up with a nation destabilized and some kind of war, and both sides denying having started it.

Let me share a four letter word: Spin.

That's what the "mainstream media" does. It filters out some stuff and emphasizes other stuff, so that "reality" (think "reality tv" here) seems to be a certain way.

What has become of "mainstream media" is that it has become the propaganda arm of the establishment -- meaning those with the gold (it's the golden rule). The main job of "the media" is to prevent real revolt while at times creating its illusion, so steam gets blown off and the smoke and mirrors still go on working their magic tricks.

The mainstream media doesn't want to be too obvious about all of this, so they need to create a stink now and then and then to blame it on... well, you know who: those who would rock the apple cart for real and distribute both wealth and power to the people themselves.

It's an old game. Nothing new here.
 
I guess I'm lucky, I'm a privileged white mail, so, I guess I don't know what scares me. I'm pretty scared though. I'm afraid of what will become of this country. I'm afraid of major losses in progress that has been made -- such as SSM and abortion rights. I'm afraid of the Supreme Court getting clogged with right-wing extremists for Justices. I'm afraid for the future of women and multiple minority races. I'm just scared in general.

The people Trump is picking to staff his administration seem to me to justify my fears. My only hope is that things will simmer down after he gets sworn in. My fear is that things will ramp up into a storm of singular fury. I'm afraid that we won't survive the next four years. And I'm afraid that it won't be four years, but eight years ... and will the horror end then?

People say I'm a sore loser, that that's my problem. But this isn't about losing the election, I could care less about that. What bothers me is the unknown on the road ahead, and the shape that bother takes is not anger or disdain but rather sheer fright. I'm afraid that something much bigger than Trump the man has been unleashed.

If Trump were just a clown, he'd be funny. But he's not a clown -- not anymore.

Americans have particular cause to tremble. But people in other countries should be afraid too. America is setting precedents. It is also muscling its way up to the prospect of hostility abroad. Hostility that may take any number of forms, from embargos to torture to WWIII. We can all appreciate the gravity of a global nuclear holocaust, and we can appreciate Trump's unpredictability in that area.

Trump's victory isn't annoying. It's terrifying. And I say that with all sincerity. If I wasn't afraid, I would keep my mouth shut, let everyone else witness the unfolding disaster, and hope I'm wrong.

I'm a coward and I won't deny it. I don't have the psychological (or physical) umph to fight the terrible battles that lie up ahead.
 
I think that I might have stumbled upon a perfect example of irony.

I was once a proud member of the NRA. When I left Murderapolis -- which is NOT 1996 Minneapolis as the press had it but Phillips Neighborhood very specifically -- I no longer felt the need for firearms. (FWIW, I am highly skilled in just about any hand- or shoulder-fired individual weapon under .50 cal., which is kinda odd for ANY skinny old hippie. :p)

Irony? I am now considering buying a few guns, in order to defend myself against gun owners.

:(
 
Oh, my...
I seriously doubt anything will stop a sane person from choosing Clinton over Trump.
And THAT worked out so well. :rolleyes:
ITrump might do a lot of good for our budget and our world economy.

I am going to listen to what he has to say. I'm sure that there will be much for me to disagree with him about, but today I'm going to start with listening.

The stance I'm taking is simply one of being open minded, as we liberals all pride ourselves on being.

This is what really gets my goat about some of my fellow "progressives." The exact same fear mongering and bigotry and hate that we despise so much about the Other Guys.
I am a Progressive -- by the quote-marks, you are NOT, which is fine but geez can't you simply admit to being a Business Uber Alles Libertarian & leave it at that?

I left "liberal" BS behind when GWB won, in part because I got REALLY tired of hearing "we won the moral high ground!!" which meant "we got our collective ASS handed to us" & walking away with the Good Sportsmanship trophy proudly held high as though it meant anything other than LOSER.

Sure, I'll wind up in Hell (okay, Purgatory) because of my cynicism, which among other things dared suggest that Trump might just have a chance of beating Clinton. :D
Sinclair Lewis, noted American author, wrote a cynical book in 1936 called It Can't Happen Here. Guess what? It just did.
Bless you for citing this. I guess it's maybe mere irony that during the GWB administration, this novel was out of print. :( I found a tattered copy in 2003 & credit it with saving a few shreds of my putative sanity. Didn't the homosexual orgies in the White House kinda remind you of the Jim Guckert scandal that was swept under the rug...?
 
This thing we call "polarization" has just gotten ramped way the hell up, turned up full blast. It was already really bad even during the Obama administration, as we all remember well enough. But trump's election just turned up the volume on this to a degree we have perhaps not seen since the American Civil War. Yes, that's scary. But the good news is that the result is not just a rise in ugly and nefarious stuff. It's also a rise in it's opposite, as I think you will see if you look closely for the symptoms of it. People are organizing quickly to create the sort of society we liberals/progressives/etc really want -- even if it that society is even more powerfully opposed by those who would prefer to drag us back by several decades or centuries. That's the good news. The bad news is that those who say we live in (at least) "two Americas" are being proven quite right. Or rather, correct. We are living in the days of Fractured America. There is no One America. Those days are behind us.
 
The bad news is that those who say we live in (at least) "two Americas" are being proven quite right.
I disagree, but hey, we're all just throwing opinions around, so what does it matter? The vast majority of us Americans get along astonishingly well, given our diversity. If you think that there are two Americas, then you'll find evidence of that everywhere. If you think, as I do, that we all have way more common values than we have differences, then you'll find that everyday life in this country bears that out. You bad news junkies don't have a corner on the Truth market.



I am a Progressive -- by the quote-marks, you are NOT, which is fine but geez can't you simply admit to being a Business Uber Alles Libertarian & leave it at that?
It's good to see you back, Ravenscroft. The discussion has been missing your singular and always interesting voice.

I used quote marks to indicate that "progressive" now means "See it my way or you're a bigot," not that I don't champion pretty much every liberal cause known to mankind. I'm interested in how we can work with people who see things differently and support the systems in which we do work together. I'm interested in hearing what my fellow Democrats/liberals/progressives are doing to make this world better, other than complaining about the other guys. Listening to NPR and peppering the Internet with cheeky factoids are just slacktivism. What are we doing every single day to actually shape this country? If we are really concerned about where our country is heading, we need to get involved in state and local government, not spend our days hand wringing about what might happen in "Trumps's America." This is our America and it is what we make it. If we are worried about "messages" and "impact" then let's start paying again for good journalism. Getting involved in local governance is an avenue open to every single person. State and local government have an enormous impact on our daily lives, much more so than federal. Every one of us can participate, whether it's running for local office or showing up at city council or school board meetings. Sitting in our homes, spreading fear will not create the America that we want to live in. Lots of organizations need our help and we're all free to participate every single day. That's something that no president can ever take away.
 
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Let me share a four letter word: Spin.

That's what the "mainstream media" does. It filters out some stuff and emphasizes other stuff, so that "reality" (think "reality tv" here) seems to be a certain way.

What has become of "mainstream media" is that it has become the propaganda arm of the establishment -- meaning those with the gold (it's the golden rule). The main job of "the media" is to prevent real revolt while at times creating its illusion, so steam gets blown off and the smoke and mirrors still go on working their magic tricks.

The mainstream media doesn't want to be too obvious about all of this, so they need to create a stink now and then and then to blame it on... well, you know who: those who would rock the apple cart for real and distribute both wealth and power to the people themselves.

It's an old game. Nothing new here.

I wanted to find a post I made a while back and plop it down here in response but meh, it's somewhere and I'm tired of digging already. No attention span lol...

It's one of the rather frustrating parts of existing in today's world. Not just the mainstream media, but ALL MEDIA. So I was a student for a while and the one thing that makes me DREAD going back to finish up my degree is writing papers, because you've got to cite sources for every single goddamn idea you want to present. Clearly the student's own mind is not enough, nor her own experiences, someone else must have said it first, someone "credible."

But who is credible nowadays?

Oh that just depends on who you ask really. Facebook is enough to make me nearly crazy anymore. OK, so we cannot trust the "mainstream media" it's all rigged, spin, a big propaganda game. But then you've got all of us Americans reading whatever our news of choice might be, thinking we've got a bead on the "truth." When really what you have are a bunch of people JUST LIKE EACH ONE OF US out there writing up whatever they want to cosign to and whatever they think and dishing it up like news because they've got a job doing that. You've got people on the left and people on the right and Breitbart and Fox News and Huff Post and the Washington Post and the New York Times and Newsweek and so on and so on and so on and so on....and every one of them are spewing onto social media as fast as people can type, and the TRUTH is only what any reader WANTS TO BELIEVE.

Take your pick. Decide what source you want to cite. I can't believe any is better than any other, it's only which one makes you feel right, now. If you listen to the mainstream media, you're just a sheep. If you listen to some 4chan super secret hacktivist, you are a tinfoil hat loony toon. There's a spectrum in between and none of them are gonna prove you or me RIGHT, or more right than anybody else with an opinion and a little patch of ground to defend with a loud obnoxious voice.

So. I only speak the truths I've seen and heard. All I've got is anecdotal evidence to prop up my "arguments." Which is why I don't bother arguing. I know my own mind. That is all. Nobody else with a louder or more persistent voice is going to come into my space and shove my opinion around. I don't have to argue with others, they speak from their own bubble and fine, good for them. I know that rape is real and rape culture and misogyny exist, I know racism and bigotry exists, I know a lot of good people exist who use words like "safe space" without mocking and condescending tones, I know people who care about others, and all I can do is walk over and stand with them. That is my little patch of ground to defend. It's all I've got.

I don't need to cite any sources for my perspective, because I trust what I have seen and heard. It is damn hard to know what to trust outside of that anymore. But I've had a sense of that for a really long time. And I've known that we are far more than ONE America since I lived a goodly chunk of time in northern Virginia, Cincinnati, Des Moines, Olympia, WA, and now Colorado Springs. I might as well have been hopping around to different planets. People spoke, acted, thought and acted utterly different in each place. Live long enough in any one place, you become convinced that this is how America is, this is how people are. You adapt. Then move, and realize how different it is. When I moved to Cincinnati, I was confused because people say "please?" and it means "what?" When I moved to Des Moines, I was startled when a fast food cashier smiled at me...like, what are you looking at? What's funny? What's wrong with you? When I moved to Washington, I had to realize that my "best friends" would happily knife me in the back and take me for everything I had, but they'd do it with a smile and a hug. Fake fake fake. But it's all good so long as you PRETEND you're a great friend. When I moved to Colorado, no one got any of my jokes! I had to relearn how to even relate and communicate in every single place. We were never ONE America. And we all pick up the flavor of whatever echo chamber we live in.

We are here speaking in one right now. Where are the trump voters in this thread? Where?? Silent. But I'd bet you some have read our words, and decided that this space would be hostile to them. And decided not to post. This isn't their echo chamber. And if I went to a space where they were talking, I'd be attacked, or expect to be, too. Everyone thinks what they think, and thinks they are right and their reasons are good. Everyone.
 
Oh and I still think we should talk more about sex in this thread.

At least my sex life is absolutely grand, I've got that going for me these days. Anybody else having good sex lately? Feels a little bit like playing the fiddle while Rome burns, but shit, I'll take it. :D
 
Thinking about it, I have to agree that equating Trump to Hitler is empty hyperbole. But I can make the case Trump has much in common with Benito Mussolini, particularly in the 1920s as he rose to power & quickly turned Italy into a totalitarian corporatist dictatorship.
Mussolini_mezzobusto.jpg


(Most people don't realize Mussolini was pushed out of office in 1943 by the Grand Council of Fascism.)
________________

While my head still aches when I think of the phrase "President Trump," I feel the more important consideration is a brief question:

What do we do next?

It's a done deal. The world will keep turning a bit longer. Lives must be lived.

I was listening to an NPR program last week, & one pundit kept saying, "Oh, sure, Trump said he was going to do <.....>, but he'd need Congressional support" & seemed clueless that unless deep rifts appear immediately Trump HAS that support, instantly & totally.

End the EPA & Depts of Education & Interior, outlaw same-sex marriage (maybe retroactively), ban legal marijuana sales, erase gun controls, let businesses do whatever they want on specious "religious freedom" grounds, ratchet up corporate personhood, replace ACA with nothing.

And most of us will hang around anyway.

After the GOP got beat up in 2012, they conducted an "autopsy" to examine where they'd gone wrong. To me, that sounds like a good idea, & maybe every individual & every political flavor we've seen in the past year or two should sit down & do some soul searching rather than fetching up at TRUMP = BAD & moving no further.

For starters, I recommend getting rid of silly notions like "gridlock" & "partisanship" & "efficiency." The framers of the Constitution took HUGE pains to put all that stuff in there in the first place -- checks-&-balances, multiparty divides, ungainly judiciary.

Without the negative-feedback systems, Democracy readliy turns to dictatorship, oligarchy, totalitarianism.

Dictatorship is really, really efficient.

The choice is either "let the GOP do pretty much whatever the hell they want" or "throw rocks in the gears until everyone MUST sit down & sort through the crap."
 
"throw rocks in the gears until everyone MUST sit down & sort through the crap."

This perfectly describes the largest chunk of my own plan, and that of my friends -- who are actually ORGANIZING our rock placement activity thoughtfully and passionately.

I and my friends are anything but alone. We are in the many millions. trump and his buddies will not be having a walk in the park.
 
I can't believe I'm watching our government hand power to a would-be autocrat with no political experience and glaring conflicts of interest with his global corporations. I can't understand why leaders at every level aren't pressing hard on the electorates to vote against Trump/Pence on Dec. 19? I feel like the left's lofty "they go low, we go high" mentality is our downfall, and people are more afraid of the Trumpsters and their guns than of the liberals and their peace signs.T

But they don't want riots, or civil war, so they assure everyone in very calm tones that it's going to be ok, just "give him a chance." But it's becoming obvious quickly that it isn't going to be ok at all. White nationalists and religious right-wingers in positions of power. Nepotism and cronyism. Lack of transparency. Glaring conflicts of interest with Trump's global corporations. Our elected officials should be doing everything in their power to disallow this.
 
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I can't believe I'm watching our government hand power to a would-be autocrat with no political experience and glaring conflicts of interest with his global corporations. I can't understand why leaders at every level aren't pressing hard on the electorates to vote against Trump/Pence on Dec. 19? I feel like the left's lofty "they go low, we go high" mentality is our downfall, and people are more afraid of the Trumpsters and their guns than of the liberals and their peace signs.T

But they don't want riots, or civil war, so they assure everyone in very calm tones that it's going to be ok, just "give him a chance." But it's becoming obvious quickly that it isn't going to be ok at all. White nationalists and religious right-wingers in positions of power. Nepotism and cronyism. Lack of transparency. Glaring conflicts of interest with Trump's global corporations. Our elected officials should be doing everything in their power to disallow this.

Nicely said.

.... Well, except the last sentence. We should not expect elected officials (mainly) to take care of this mess for us. I think we're all holding responsibility for dealing with this mess. No excuses. Everyone. All of us.
 
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