Religion, politics, sex .. and other taboo subjects

amazing Republican facts

For you devotees of Twitter & Facebook & all that, here's some surprising stuff that doesn't get discussed much in the media.

Did anyone here ever learn anything in school about the Constitution of the United States? If so, can you state the qualifications to be President? There's only three: be at least 35 years of age, be a "natural-born citizen," & have resided within the U.S. for the previous 14 years. (I always forget #3.:()

That "natural-born citizen" part has been argued over the years. The strict interpretation is that this can only be met if a person is born within the U.S. to parents who are citizens. While that second part has been repeatedly beaten back since the 1800s, it refuses to die, being the basis for Strunk v. N.Y. State Board of Elections (2102), wherein the meathead plaintiff demanded that Barack Obama be removed from the ballot because his father wasn't born in the U.S. :rolleyes: The court responded that this interpretation has never been upheld, & that Obama in fact the sixth POTUS with one or two non-citizen parents.

Your tax money at work, in support of insane Republicans.
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And in this context, let's not forget the weird Right Wingnut conspiracy theories about Obama's citizenship, which since 2008 have become voluminous enough to have not one but TWO extensive Wikipedia articles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_presidential_eligibility_litigation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_citizenship_conspiracy_theories
These are still actually being pursued, in hopes that any decisions made during Obama's tenure can be instantly voided.

Your tax money at work, in support of insane Republicans.
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There have been two major modern efforts to in fact amend the Constitution to allow (surprise) Rightist Germans to run for President as Republicans. :eek: (Well, to be fair: Bavaria & Austria, respectively.) In 1974, it was Henry Kissinger. In 2003, Orrin Hatch (are all Utah Mormons just GOP tools...??) introduced a proposal with the Doublespeak title the Equal Opportunity to Govern Amendment, which would have allowed ANYONE to be POTUS who'd been a naturalized citizen for at least twenty years -- this was specifically intended to clear the way for Arnold Schwarzenegger. Nobody believes me, but...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Opportunity_to_Govern_Amendment

In both cases, your tax money at work, to... well, can you see a theme here? :cool:
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Fast-forward to Rafael "Ted" Cruz. Bad enough that his father was born in Cuba (which, ironically enough, would have made him ineligible if the Wingnuts had won Strunk), but the old guy wasn't even naturalized as a U.S. citizen until 2005.

But Ted was born in Calgary, Alberta. By some interpretations, that would be Canada, which (shocking though this might be to many Rightists) is still NOT part of the United States.

At least sixteen ballot challenges (thus far) to Cruz's candidacy have been filed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born-citizen_clause#Ted_Cruz
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Ted held dual citizenship, in Canada & the United States. This baffles me a little, as Ted's dad didn't become a naturalized Canadian until 1973, three years AFTER Ted's birth, so wasn't Ted actually a Cuban citizen...?

As a good little Red, wanting to avoid the Socialistic taint of the Great White North, Ted renounced his Canadianness, of course... as of May 14, 2014.
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Republicans love to screech plaintively about Rights, then make clear they ALSO must be able to deny those same Rights to "the wrong sort of people" (which they can define at will). For instance, that's why storefront churches are allowed to pop up just about anywhere, with no regard for the desires of the neighbors... unless said churches are (say) Muslim.

In similar manner, wait for the day when some non-Wingnut political group floats a well-qualified Mexico-born candidate, using the paved road still being laid down by the GOP. There WILL be much squealing!!

It could still readily happen: Hatch's "Arnold bill" was resurrected a few months ago, intending to be more touchy-feely & "bipartisan," but still the same old shit in a new box.
In 2015, the Equal Opportunity to Govern Campaign was set up to reintroduce Senator Hatch's original ... amendment. A petition was set up and a website released on October 9, 2015 ...
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There's actually been rumors that the Reds are gonna keep fighting this, so that they can bring in ANY foreign-born puppet as they please.

The Weird Part is the interpretation of "natural-born" to mean something other than "native-born." One version says that the only things not "natural" would be like cloning... or maybe artificial insemination. Maybe it's just my normal paranoia, but doesn't that mean that like 99.99%+ of people on the face of the planet could aspire to be President??

Another pained interpretation focuses on the "born" part, & so only rules out anyone delivered by caesarian section. :D
 
The Republican party seems to me to be dead, insofar as its presidential candidates go. Cruz is second in line after Trump in this race, with the only apparently sane Republican after him trailing far behind the insane others?

Dead. Just dead.

The next president of the United States will either be its last or it will be Hillary or Bernie.

I much prefer Bernie, of course.

I can still feel the Bern.
 
Everyone (in the media) was so focused upon Arizona in the Democratic primary yesterday that I fell for it. But Bernie won two of three states yesterday, and came out with more delegates than Hillary did. Consider that.

http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results
 
I found the phrase "name recognition" as used in the article mentioned (and linked to) above really weird. I mean, really? Somehow, some people who are in the least interested in the American presidential primaries have not heard the name Bernie Sanders? Really? They don't recognize his name? Really?!?

This sort of news can only make sense in light of an "electorate" who would choose Donald Trump as one of the two leading contenders.

So it may be implausible to the level of surrealism, but also somehow weirdly actual?

Will somebody please provide me with a new compass? Mine has up as up and down as down and North, East, South and West pointing in other directions from these newfangled ones just sent in from China very recently. :confused:
 
River, it is my understanding that Trump and Hillary are doing well with uneducated, uninformed voters. People who aren't watching election news on TV, or reading it on the internet, are yet still familiar with T&H since they've been in the public eye for decades.

These people may not own a computer or a smart phone. They may not be able to afford one, or to afford the service. They may be very busy and exhausted, working two or three jobs just to keep a roof over their heads or food on the table for their children. They don't realize Bernie is the candidate to give them the social changes and programs that would most benefit them, and make their lives easier and more healthy! It's extremely ironic.

I guess I take a tiny bit of heart knowing Obama was just as unknown as Bernie 8 years ago, and still became president. But then again, he was only competing with John McCain, who doesn't have the ... charm (puke) of Trump, or the clout of an ex president's wife. Plus McCain had that idiot Sarah Palin for a VP running mate. I wonder who Trump will choose for his sidekick? I imagine he will hate sharing the limelight with anyone!
 
Despite your bold headline, Clinton is still way out ahead:


Clinton
1690

Sanders
946

Needed
2383

I'm supposing you did not read the article.

Bernie actually has a LOT more support than you may think. Hillary may be leading in delegates at the moment, but this is largely due to the pattern of voting which has been unfolding gradually through the states. The less progressive states (such as the Deep South) have sided with the less progressive candidate: Hillary. The more progressive states, as the primary moves out West, may end up siding overwhelmingly with Bernie.

It is true that Hillary has a vast machine working for her. Bernie has a vast grassroots people power thing going on which tends to shake up expectations -- such as his candidacy's extraordinary capacity to raise tons of financial support on tiny kitchen table donations. (Personally, I think money-power should be excluded from elections in the USA, but that's another topic.)

This primary will go all the way to the convention and will probably be quite close, perhaps even "contested" or "brokered". Hillary may be the hare and Sanders the tortoise.

http://freebeacon.com/politics/sanders-nomination-fight-convention-win-superdelegates/
 
River, it is my understanding that Trump and Hillary are doing well with uneducated, uninformed voters. People who aren't watching election news on TV, or reading it on the internet, are yet still familiar with T&H since they've been in the public eye for decades.

Yeah.

Sigh.

So, folks, if your neighbor is not a well-informed voter, please invite him or her to tea, okay?
 
Yeah.

Sigh.

So, folks, if your neighbor is not a well-informed voter, please invite him or her to tea, okay?

The trouble is, by this stage in the game, people have dug into their positions and get terribly defensive about whatever it is that they think they believe.

And arguing with idiots just isn't very high on my priority list right now.

However, what's funny, is that I'm not atypical of the mindset around me, many of the people in my circles are some shade of "get off my lawn" and yet we all agree that Bernie is at minimum, the least repugnant option that we have.

EDIT: My ex totally supports Trump though. /facepalm
 
I'm supposing you did not read the article.

I read the article and do not agree with the analysis. Hillary Clinton has broad appeal and not just among "ill informed," "uneducated" and "less progressive" voters. The Democratic nomination will not be close at all and she will be the nominee hands down - and not because her broad base of supporters are "ill informed," but because she's had their support for a very long time and arguably because Sander's proposals are preposterous. A lot of very informed, quite educated and self-identified Progressives continue to support her, many of them in California and it appears that she will handily win that state's all important delegates.
 
Common Dreams
Thursday, March 24, 2016

This Race Far From Over: New Poll Shows Sanders and Clinton Tied Nationally
'In the end, Hillary Clinton has a trust problem,' says pollster
http://www.commondreams.org/news/20...oll-shows-sanders-and-clinton-tied-nationally



Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders: Who Can Trump Trump?
Democracy Now!
MARCH 10, 2016

Excerpt:

NATHAN ROBINSON: Well, as you can see, the statistic that Professor Draper cited proves him wrong, because everyone is upset. It doesn’t matter that it’s Republicans, because everyone votes in the general election. Right? So what you need is, in a general election—

AMY GOODMAN: Well, half of Americans do.

NATHAN ROBINSON: —you have to appeal to those people. That’s—that’s who you need to appeal to in order to win. And those people, Bernie Sanders can appeal to. But Hillary Clinton, who Professor Draper, in his article, calls the candidate of "moral ambiguity"—you can’t, on a platform of moral ambiguity, get people to turn out to the polls. If turnout is low, you need to inspire people. Bernie Sanders inspires people. Hillary Clinton hemorrhages support all the time. Donald Trump builds support. Bernie Sanders builds support as [people get] to know him. As people get to know Hillary Clinton, they trust her less and less.

http://www.democracynow.org/2016/3/10/hillary_clinton_or_bernie_sanders_who
 
Sander's proposals are preposterous.

It's true that SOME of his proposals are highly unlikely to find the necessary support in a senate / congress such as we have at the moment.

Is this primarily what you refer to as "preposterous"?

He'd have the bully pulpit. That counts for something. Doesn't it?

And something is better than the nothing -- by which I mean Business As Usual -- we could expect from a candidate like Hillary, who is happy to continue with Politics As Usual, by which I mean kissing the butts of those with moneypower.

To be a true progressive in American politics today one has to stand up against moneypower in favor of peoplepower. Do you honestly believe Hillary will do that? I do not.


A lot of very informed, quite educated and self-identified Progressives continue to support her, many of them in California and it appears that she will handily win that state's all important delegates.

Taking a look at the LA Times article:

"A survey released Wednesday by the Public Policy Institute of California showed Clinton leading Sanders, 48% to 41%."

Those numbers are VERY close, and the primary in California is on the distant day of June 7th--, two and a half months away. If Bernie picks up a little momentum as the primary heads West.... And why wouldn't he? Just what is it that makes Hillary so exciting as a candidate? I can tell you what excites folks about Bernie, but all I know about what excites folks about Hillary is that (a) she's a woman, and (b) the media pundits keep saying she's the winner already. (Everyone wants to vote for a winner, don't they?)
 
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Just what is it that makes Hillary so exciting as a candidate?

Everyone doesn't base their vote on the most exciting candidate and certainly, not everyone see Bernie Sanders as "exciting." In every election there are fresh blood candidates that generate a lot of "exciting" buzz, but that doesn't mean that the people who support the "less exciting" candidates are ill informed sheep, voting for a spoon fed media darling. Just because people don't agree with your point of view or don't share your values doesn't mean that they are lazy idiots.

You can cherry pick all of the pro-Bernie "analysis" you want, but Hillary Clinton will easily win the Democratic nomination and it won't go anywhere near a convention showdown. She's going to take California, New York and Pennsylvania and with these monster states in her corner, Bernie Sanders will soon be but a quaint character in American politics.
 
"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be."

The trouble is, by this stage in the game, people have dug into their positions and get terribly defensive about whatever it is that they think they believe.

And arguing with idiots just isn't very high on my priority list right now.
Totally understand where you're at... but the road IS months longer, & it's possible to do some constuctive sabotage along the way.

At work, when someone crows about how protesters at a Trump rally were in the wrong (even when assaulted), then make noises about how The Donald is blameless for this, I shrug & point out that the situation isn't hard toimagine where mobs of pro-Trump thugs are marching down the streets, attacking anyone they think looks like an "enemy": "If he doesn't start telling them to back off NOW, he won't be able to when the deaths start." My co-workers have gotten a little quieter, & I hear a lot less knee-jerk FOXian slogans being parroted -- & I'm hoping that they sometimes spread MY memes.;)
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FOR THE RECORD: Trump may indeed be a Renfieldesque syphilitic, but he's more honest than most politicians, & indeed doesn't appear to be beholden to anyone.

The problem with that latter: if he doesn't feel he owes ANYTHING to ANYONE, he's free to do whatever the hell he pleases with the power he's given -- there are no "checks & balances" in play. He could easily surround the White House with an armed garrison & entrench himself as President For Life.

Even if he doesn't go that far overboard, look at how easily he could play Saint Donnie while blithely letting his yobboes organize themselves into violent cells akin to UK football hooligans, who have morphed through well-dressed "casuals" (less likely to be spotted by police as potentially violent because they're well-dressed... &, well, VERY white) into groups like the anti-Muslim English Defence League, who (surprise!!) also tend to be anti-black, -poor, -immigrant, -government.
h-ENGLISH-DEFENCE-LEAGUE-628x314.jpg

English-Defence-League-006.jpg

Wow, good thing THAT can't happen in the USA, right? Oh, hold on...
usadl-edl1.jpg

I'm certain they DO NOT see ironic parallels to the violently racist terrorist group, the Jewish Defense League.
 
As for it all being over? Dunno -- tides turn, deals get made, & sometimes crap just happens. I hear people say, "the field's just too fractured," alternating with "looks like a done deal," seemingly with no clue they're sorta opposites.
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Are you guys actually arguing over whether Sanders or Clinton is the more exciting??

:D

The Democratic side has the thrills-per-minute rate of a tortoise race! Though I outgrew any need for THAT nonsense a long time ago, I'm surprised that either can draw ANY under-40 support. This forces me to revise my rather dour opinion of "the kids."
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Please don't blithely present the Democrats' delegate count as though the surface numbers mean anything. Any voter who's even within hailing distance of "well informed" would know that these aren't constants, but variables.

Clinton has 1,690 delegates? Does anyone really take that at face value?

Of that number, 467 are "superdelegates," who have leeway to change their support, representing (in theory) the shifting mood of their constituents. The actual count of pledged (committed) delegates is 1,223 to 920, so hardly unreachable.

Next up: Alaska, Hawaii, Washington -- right now ALL leaning toward Sanders. That's 16 (4), 25 (9), & 101 (17) delegates up for grabs.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/democratic_delegate_count.html

Can Clinton clinch New York? It is, after all, her HOME state... well, kinda like Illinois, & Arkansas, & DC, & Massachusetts. I figure she'll get more votes thanks to the increasingly addled Rudy Giuliani, who said yesterday she "could be considered a founding member of ISIS". :rolleyes:
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To repeat: in September 2000, a Zogby poll of people who claimed to support Bush's candidacy found that ONE-SIXTH believed they were voting for George HW Bush... the candidate's father.

Were they "well-informed" or not? :confused:

And that number strongly suggests that a substantial portion of the confirmed "I'll vote for anything GOP" bloc was likely even LESS well-informed about the GOP intent for more-arcane stuff -- foreign policy & economic policy, for starters, let alone energy & environment -- yet were (sadly) allowed to vote anyway.
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I'm thinking back to the 1980 race for a GOP candidate. Remember who brutally bashed Ronnie Reagan's insane "supply side" theories as voodoo economics? Yep, that'd be George HW Bush. In January, Bush won the Iowa straw poll over Reagan, & was seen as the smartest of the Reds, but while he put on a decent show, most people were impressed by Reagan's avuncular charm. I remember people saying that his economic plans didn't make any clear sense but "he looks like he knows what he's talking about." :eek: Clearly, form won out over (an utter lack of) substance.

Anyway, there was a LOT of talk that Jerry Ford was a shoe-in for VP, & some Nixonian holdouts (Kissinger & Greenspan) would come along, creating a ticket & an Administration that'd pull together a party still fractured post-Watergate. In fact, Ford was going to be a sort of "co-president," which at the time made some of us wonder whether Ronnie was dying -- which strangely wasn't far off, with Bush clearly in charge for most of Reagan's second term, likely longer in an "advisory" capacity.
 
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Are you guys actually arguing over whether Sanders or Clinton is the more exciting??

No. Please read the posts again.

The anything-can-happen-superdelegate argument is a sad, tired, overused meme making the rounds. It won't happen. Someone had to emerge as a challenger to Hillary Clinton and it's Sanders for now, but he'll soon be joining Ron Paul and Michael Dukakis in the group of characters that make Saturday Night Live reruns look confusing and dated. Hillary Clinton's campaign has already taken its focus off of "battling" Bernie Sanders and has aimed its arrows at Trump. Bye, bye, Bernie!
 
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.... It won't happen. Someone had to emerge as a challenger to Hillary Clinton and it's Sanders for now, but he'll soon be joining Ron Paul and Michael Dukakis in the group of characters that make Saturday Night Live reruns look confusing and dated. Hillary Clinton's campaign has already taken its focus off of "battling" Bernie Sanders and has aimed its arrows at Trump. Bye, bye, Bernie!

Somebody may have to eat her hat. Though it may be because the race for the nomination turned out to be way closer than she presumed. Hillary may win the nomination, but not likely by the landslide this hat-eater imagines, ... is my guess.

"The Media," so called, is definitely presenting things as if it's already all wrapped up, but I think they are just doing their job (which is to serve bigmoney [i.e., the Establishemnt]); nothing new there. If the "perception" is that Bernie cannot do it -- and the media does cultivate perceptions -- this (sadly) effects reality -- as is their wont. But Bernie is very well liked and will likely surprise everyone (except me and a few of my frineds). And for good reason. He's the better candidate, and the much more sincere and authentic voice of the Democrats in this race.

I'll eat my own damn hat if Hillary wins by the landslide the media portrays Bernie as losing at. I'll saute it in olive oil and garlic, with a light sprinkling of sea salt. A fine sprinkling of chopped chives on top.

This is still a race, folks. Bernie may not win this race, but it will be a shave or nothing.

Oh, and, Clinton is prancing that way (focusing upon the Repugs) because her "handlers" told her to. They (her handlers) are betting on the slight of hand magic trick to get her to the White House. I'd not bet high on that.
 
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