Religion, politics, sex .. and other taboo subjects

[Hannahfluke]

I encourage you to read the posts from the site owner in announcements. He's written several and they well explain his intentions, constraints and reasons for eliminating things in efforts to protect the ongoing overall community there.

The crap comment was in regards to Trump's hypocrisy, not the actions of the owner of Fetlife. I did read the latest statement and I agree, they do have good reasons behind the actions Fetlife has taken.

 

[Hannahfluke]

I think my dom's profile was a casualty of all this crap going on with Fetlife. I knew that his profile had a lot of kinks listed about age play, so I looked for it and his profile isn't on fet anymore. I haven't had a chance to ask him about it yet but since the newest post talks about how they deleted inactive profiles that didn't fit the new guidelines and he's not particularly active on fet, my guess is that the caretakers deleted his profile.

Edit: yeah, his profile was deleted by fet. It didn’t even have much in it, a few pictures of his face and a bunch of fetishes selected from the existing ones you can choose. I don't think he had even typed anything in his profile. So apparently being inactive and having fetishes, selected from their list even, that are no longer allowed is enough to get your profile deleted. From the comments I read, if you're active and fall into that category, they delete the information on your profile but don't delete the account.

Turns out he just had to sign in again and his profile was reactivated, with lots of the fetishes he had chosen deleted. That's better than what I had thought happened

 

[FallenAngelina]

Yep. trump signed a pledge to appoint an Attorney General who would fight internet porn as a "TOP PRIORITY" American health risk, because "think of the children" and fully cooperate with his efforts.

Interesting to note that Hillary Clinton signed this same pledge.

 

[Spork]

Interesting to note that Hillary Clinton signed this same pledge.

That is interesting. Does not shock me too much. Personally though I think the difference is that Hillary would sign, prior to an election, to garner whatever support it gained her, as would most any politician. But I suspect she wouldn't have actually taken much action once in office, or that it would not have been much of a priority, unless the actors behind it wielded enough political heft to shove her. I rather doubt if she would have picked some *wink wink* "Family Values" Attorney General to pursue such things, because she signed a pledge.

But she has some idea of who will be barkin' up her tree and who she can ignore, versus who she had better kowtow to. trumpo on the other hand, who knows, it's all about name dropping, ego stroking and curry favoring, and he'll appoint whoever gives him the best bellyrubs, or says the right things to him. And he may not blow off some of the "here, sign this pledge!" promises he made prior to the election, as I think Hillary might do.

I wonder if they whispered in Hillary's ear that porn is exploitation of women, or if they stuck to the "for the children" spiel?

But this pledge...it is only interesting because things are ACTUALLY HAPPENING right now.

 

[Magdlyn]

Turns out he just had to sign in again and his profile was reactivated, with lots of the fetishes he had chosen deleted. That's better than what I had thought happened

Good

That is interesting. Does not shock me too much. Personally though I think the difference is that Hillary would sign, prior to an election, to garner whatever support it gained her, as would most any politician. But I suspect she wouldn't have actually taken much action once in office, or that it would not have been much of a priority, unless the actors behind it wielded enough political heft to shove her. I rather doubt if she would have picked some *wink wink* "Family Values" Attorney General to pursue such things, because she signed a pledge.

But she has some idea of who will be barkin' up her tree and who she can ignore, versus who she had better kowtow to. trumpo on the other hand, who knows, it's all about name dropping, ego stroking and curry favoring, and he'll appoint whoever gives him the best bellyrubs, or says the right things to him. And he may not blow off some of the "here, sign this pledge!" promises he made prior to the election, as I think Hillary might do.

I wonder if they whispered in Hillary's ear that porn is exploitation of women, or if they stuck to the "for the children" spiel?

But this pledge...it is only interesting because things are ACTUALLY HAPPENING right now.

Yeah.

 

[IndieSolo]

No politician is going to publicly support pornography, specifically. But they might support freedom of speech without really mentioning porn.

 

[FeatherFool]

You're probably right, nycindie. We are extremely left where I live. Like, a lot. And this isn't really same issue at all, but our local MP was supporting sex workers as "women should have autonomy over their bodies and choices" but not really saying "prostitution should be legal". You get what she means, but she can't just come out and SAY it.

From what I understand, where I live a lot of BDSM activities are actually illegal since we do not have the right to consent to harm here. I can say "hit me" and if you hit me, you can be brought up on charges.

It's kind of the reverse of our Good Samaritan law. If you are in a health emergency, and you refuse help, I can't help you. But the moment you fall unconscious I have the legal right to do anything reasonably necessary to you to save your life. My mom is a nurse, and when I was a teen we were tubing down a river. Another group was there and were super drunk. One guy slipped off his tube and into the water and didn't come up. My mom swam over, pulled him up on the shore and started giving him aid. He came around, told her to stop, so she did. Then she waited for him to pass out because he wasn't breathing so she could continue until the ambulance arrived and took him away. Conversely, you can't agree to anything that would reasonable cause you harm. No one has permission to hurt someone else here, no exceptions. Pfft. We only recently decriminalized doctor-assisted suicide! It's still not really legal; you just aren't as likely to go to jail for premeditated murder now.

...That was really ramble-y lol

 

[Magdlyn]

That's a bummer about the "no harm" law, FF! God.

But those Dutch and Germans! They really get up to some hijinks.

 

[FeatherFool]

It's kind of a hard law to change, though. Because... how do you explain it? "So, some people like to be hit or whatever, and should be allowed to do so..."

If I remember correctly it was all tied up with mental health care supports, anti-suicide measures, and stuff like that: a "if you consent to being hurt you are probably not mentally well enough to actually consent" kind of thing. It wasn't originally intended to encroach on consenting adult fun times, but the way it is written definitely means that hitting a consenting adult with a flog could end with you in jail for assault, even if your partner refuses to press charges; they could more or less have charges placed on their behalf.

As far as I know it hasn't really affected the BDSM scene here, though I skirt the edges of that so I wouldn't really know for sure. It does mean the the first thing you lean is be damned careful who you play with. Don't play with someone you wouldn't be willing to go to jail for, basically.

 

[vinsanity0]

We had a massive, rather giant turn out for the Women's march here in Santa Fe, and also in nearby Albuquerque... and all over the country... and even the world. I wonder if there has ever been such a large single day of protest / demonstration in this country.

We had a pretty good turnout in Miami as well. It was a very positive experience.

 

[vinsanity0]

The crap comment was in regards to Trump's hypocrisy, not the actions of the owner of Fetlife. I did read the latest statement and I agree, they do have good reasons behind the actions Fetlife has taken.

Then I'll say it. Both are crap. The kink community needs to stand up for our rights, not tuck our tail between our legs and bow to the regime.

 

[Magdlyn]

Then I'll say it. Both are crap. The kink community needs to stand up for our rights, not tuck our tail between our legs and bow to the regime.

There is not much the admin of FL and other sex sites can do if PayPal and credit card co's and certain banks are unwilling to process purchases though!

This is a weird time. ITA agree Trump and Sessions are just trying to cover their own kinky or gay asses. Obama was squeaky clean, never a harsh word or scandal. sigh...

 

[Spork]

Regarding the "no harm" laws...

Fire brought this to my attention, too. Same laws exist here, but I think they are at the state level. Our local club is known to the city and to law enforcement, the owner has reached out and made sure that all local emergency responders know what it is and what we do, and they've really done their best to mostly avoid any risks with regard to laws against prostitution. She says during every orientation, "the law does not differentiate between flogging and fucking." And the point is, the only money that can change hands is between attendees and the club and it must be done at the front desk. This is for memberships, and merchandise (it is also an art gallery and they also sell things crafted by local artists...corsets, collars, toys, etc) but if one member owes another $5, we are asked to go down to the local gas station to conduct that exchange, not to even do it on the property.

The pro Domme I know has to be very careful about what acts she can and cannot perform. She figures that the law DOES differentiate between flogging and fucking. But she operates up in Denver, which is a bit more liberal than Colorado Springs. Well. A lot more liberal actually.

But Fire and I discussed this and she said she looked into it, and "what we do" is still technically illegal, because you cannot legally consent to be hurt. I would personally argue that all sport should therefore be illegal, martial arts, tattooing, piercing, and a lot of other things. But you have to figure...in many cases, people technically violate the law, but if the cops have no particular reason to come after you and if no one is complaining or filing charges, then there is no case. I could see this law being used to compound an existing case that was brought on other grounds, if police wanted to take someone down and add charges on top of charges. And I could see if someone actually filed charges of assault.

That by the way is another reason that trust needs to go both ways, and that we discourage drug and alcohol use when one is playing. You do not want to mess with someone's ability to give clear, informed consent. You don't want to booze them up to nudge them from a "no" to a "yes" if the next day when they wake up covered in bruises, they might just call the police. One of so many reasons I encourage people new to BDSM to get into a real life community, hopefully one with some educational focus, because we take this stuff pretty seriously.

EDIT: I can only hope that the current political regime doesn't force communities like mine to retreat underground, which leads to less education and safety for new people.

 

[Magdlyn]

BDSM clubs aren't legal in MA, so people who want the experience go to Providence RI. I guess it's legal there, but also, their politics and law enforcement are so corrupt, there are lots of bribes exchanged with the cops to leave the clubs alone.

Personally I do all my kink at home. I don't get off on exhibitionism or voyeurism. I like looking at home, sure, I've done a good handful of group sex sessions. It's OK. It doesn't turn me on to watch strangers in real life. I'd rather watch porn. The one sex club I went to in RI, I saw some people flogging or sexing and thought, Oh yeah, I've BTDT. Meh It wasn't a turn on.

So the advice to "join a kink community" and go around naked in front of others and view others doing stuff, nah, no interest, except in rare sort of serendipitous unplanned situations. I have never felt unsafe when doing kink at home either, I don't feel the need for a dungeon master around to keep me safe.

I have gone to the "Fetish Flea Market" in Providence a few times, which isn't an orgy, but a day of shopping for fetish gear and classes or workshops in kink and relationship issues. That is fun for me, there is no pressure to actually do stuff, it's low key and friendly and educational. Nice place to meet friends, hang out, get lunch, maybe happen upon a party in a room where kinky things might spontaneously be going on. They also have a fetish ball Saturday night, for people who want to get dressed up and dance, but it costs extra and I've not bothered with that. Plenty of people are dressed up during the day for eye candy. And I like going to the pony paddock. That's a pretty hot fetish. (Not real horses, but people who role play.)

Of course part of the problem for Fetlife is it is now dealing with that extreme "predator" The Wolf, who is accused of rape and going to trial. I viewed his page back a year or two ago, where he had free links to some of his videos. He seemed to be with women who wanted beaten hard and anally fucked with no lube. Whatever. It seems a shame a line was crossed, if it even was!

 

[Spork]

The Wolf was probably with plenty of women who wanted what he had to offer, but there were also descriptions he wrote of REALLY pushing the boundaries of consensual nonconsent, to the point where it got tricky...at what point does a man get to say, "You knew I did this, so by talking to me you got what you asked for" or similar? I don't know just how dodgy it all was, but I remember reading something he wrote a long while back that sure sounded rapey to me. When that's the line you're dancing all over and people start making accusations and involving police, you're pretty sunk.

But I think the changes to fetlife have a lot more to do with new political attitudes and such in both the UK and the US, than The Wolf's case in Australia. Especially with the added situation of what's happened with backpage.

Oh, and part of my wish that more people new to BDSM would go through communities, is also people who are not very experienced in navigating the world of online dating and finding sex partners, too...I just see a lot of young, bright eyed newcomers, and I marvel that setting one little toe in a building that is a "dungeon" is so much more frightening than getting involved with some rando from the internet, you know? Getting into a community doesn't preclude private play at home, but I think it can help new folks learn ways to be safe. And one need not necessarily even be going to parties if the community is anything like the one here, because there are discussion groups, workshops, and a lot of other events. We do community charity work, various first aid and suicide prevention classes and stuff, we're involved in outreach for the LGBTQ+ community, support for safe & healthy sex work, and just lots of good things.

Essentially the group we've got here are like a bunch of generally happy people who want to be kind and supportive to anyone who might take an interest in being open minded and friendly with us. We're nerdy about sex, kink, relationships, sensations, etc...like some folks are nerdy about Star Trek. But we're pretty enthusiastic to share our fun.

I wish it were more like that everywhere, I know it's not. But I'd hate for the better communities to get shut down.

 

[IndieSolo]

Spork, you mentioned tattoos. People tend to forget, since we've had popular TV shows about tattoo artists, that it wasn't very long ago that tattoo parlors were illegal in quite a lot of states. In New York, it was banned in 1961 until 1997. I think it's only been in the last 10 or 12 years that tattoo parlors and became legally allowed in all 50 states, but there are still some states where it is determined by county. And it is pretty regulated for safety reasons, mostly to avoid getting infected by needles. I don't think it really should be grouped together with the issues over porn and FetLife and BDSM clubs.

 

[Spork]

Spork, you mentioned tattoos. People tend to forget, since we've had popular TV shows about tattoo artists, that it wasn't very long ago that tattoo parlors were illegal in quite a lot of states. In New York, it was banned in 1961 until 1997. I think it's only been in the last 10 or 12 years that tattoo parlors and became legally allowed in all 50 states, but there are still some states where it is determined by county. And it is pretty regulated for safety reasons, mostly to avoid getting infected by needles. I don't think it really should be grouped together with the issues over porn and FetLife and BDSM clubs.

Well, and the point of most sport (except boxing and other martial arts) is not particularly to be hurt, it just tends to happen as a side effect. But that sort of thing is never a problem for mainstream lawmakers. It's "acceptable." It's not considered "weird" in any way if you want to join a competitive organization where dudes beat the crap out of one another until one wins.

I'm aware that body modification acceptance is not everywhere, always. And it's far more acceptable further west in this country, in my opinion, than in areas east. I moved west from VA, OH, IA to WA and CO. In WA and CO, I worked in offices where women had purple hair, visible ink, whatever. In the office in Iowa where I worked, even though we never interacted with the public, we'd have had to hide any ink and have natural colored hair. In VA and OH, in this industry, I'd expect the same. Here, I talk about my BDSM stuff and my poly stuff, and all, with a number of people at work. I try to explain the ethics of polyamory, and the not-necessarily-even-sexual nature of some of the BDSM stuff as well as the good my group does in the community... in other places where I've lived, I'd probably have to keep my mouth shut regardless, people would tell me they thought I was weird and sick and they didn't want to hear about it or something. Definitely the office in Iowa, they would have. The "church ladies" as I called them. They actually argued with me once that birth control was "from the Devil."

 

[Spork]

Um, so a recent idea on the Facebooks...

Yeah, in a surprising twist that actually surprises no one, it is in fact our tax dollars that will pay for this "Wall" (??) but Mexico will maybe...reimburse us or something. (??)

So let me get this straight. We, the American people, will toil away to pay for an impenetrable wall and armed guards (yuge military) whether we like it or not, since of course paying our taxes is compulsory, even though the elected officials who supposedly "represent" us lost the popular vote by some 3 million odd American voices, that did not carry as much weight because they live in certain, more populous states...sure sounds to me like we are building and manning our own prison under the aegis of "protecting" our "freedom" from those scary illegals on the other side. Whether we like it or not.

You know what I am somewhat inclined to do? Delay the filing and paying of my taxes, even knowing that there will be penalties for this, until trumpo is out of office. Wouldn't it be something if THAT became a movement? Stick that tantrum in your pipe and smoke it...I'll hand over my money as soon as I don't expect it to go to building stupid fucking monuments to the ego of a narcissistic lunatic.

Oh, and I have seen a few conservatives say that "welfare recipients" and "criminals" from all over the country should be shipped down to the border to provide forced labor to build the wall. Great idea. House them in camps. What could possibly go wrong with this genius idea? I'm sure that the schizophrenic woman I know who can't work because she is seriously mentally disabled, who is on government bennies, is really just a lazy slacker who should be put to work keeping those damn dirty Mexicans out. And the guy who can't work because his officer in the Army hit him in the head with a rifle butt so hard during a training exercise that he will have uncontrollable seizures for life and can't even drive a car, yeah get him down there, too. Those grubby homeless veterans? Just lazy, I'm sure. Get all these folks on a nice big unpaid project...maybe when they're done, they can build a yuge orange pyramid. I'm sure Egypt will reimburse us for it when they see how great it is.

 

[vinsanity0]

Um, so a recent idea on the Facebooks...

Yeah, in a surprising twist that actually surprises no one, it is in fact our tax dollars that will pay for this "Wall" (??) but Mexico will maybe...reimburse us or something. (??)

So let me get this straight. We, the American people, will toil away to pay for an impenetrable wall and armed guards (yuge military) whether we like it or not, since of course paying our taxes is compulsory, even though the elected officials who supposedly "represent" us lost the popular vote by some 3 million odd American voices, that did not carry as much weight because they live in certain, more populous states...sure sounds to me like we are building and manning our own prison under the aegis of "protecting" our "freedom" from those scary illegals on the other side. Whether we like it or not.

You know what I am somewhat inclined to do? Delay the filing and paying of my taxes, even knowing that there will be penalties for this, until trumpo is out of office. Wouldn't it be something if THAT became a movement? Stick that tantrum in your pipe and smoke it...I'll hand over my money as soon as I don't expect it to go to building stupid fucking monuments to the ego of a narcissistic lunatic.

Oh, and I have seen a few conservatives say that "welfare recipients" and "criminals" from all over the country should be shipped down to the border to provide forced labor to build the wall. Great idea. House them in camps. What could possibly go wrong with this genius idea? I'm sure that the schizophrenic woman I know who can't work because she is seriously mentally disabled, who is on government bennies, is really just a lazy slacker who should be put to work keeping those damn dirty Mexicans out. And the guy who can't work because his officer in the Army hit him in the head with a rifle butt so hard during a training exercise that he will have uncontrollable seizures for life and can't even drive a car, yeah get him down there, too. Those grubby homeless veterans? Just lazy, I'm sure. Get all these folks on a nice big unpaid project...maybe when they're done, they can build a yuge orange pyramid. I'm sure Egypt will reimburse us for it when they see how great it is.

I'm sure you've heard by now he wants us to pay for it TWICE. He wants us to give the money up front, but then he wants to charge a 20% tariff on Mexican goods. Of course that would be passed on to us, the consumer.

 

[Ravenscroft]

it is in fact our tax dollars that will pay for this "Wall" (??) but Mexico will maybe...reimburse us or something. (??)

That's actually a new thing? Wow -- I was teasing people about this three or four months ago: "There's a big difference between 'I'll give you the money to buy this for me' & 'go buy this for me & I'll pay you back.'"

But I've got another prediction that popped into my head last week.

It helps to imagine Trump channelling Hank Kimball --

We're going to build a great wall!!

Well, not a great wall, but a pretty darn good one!

Well, maybe not a good wall, seeing as how it's going to have all sorts of big gaps in it. Oh, & really it's going to be more of a fence -- but it'll be a great fence!

Well, maybe not a great fence, seeing as it's going to have all those gaps, & be kinda short & flimsy in places.

Then we go directly into Full Trump Mode --

But anyway it's a virtual wall, right?

Anyone stupid enough to believe this was going to be an actual wall, built out of concrete & rocks & stuff? C'mon!! That's just more lies from mainstream media, they're all just a bunch of liars anyway.

A few months from now, the squawking-point Facebook feeds will tell the mindless Silver Shirts to start proclaiming that the virtual wall is complete, & to shout down anyone who so much as gets a WTF expression.