Retracted Consent

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't want to put that extra weight on her because she's not preventing me from being bisexual, just from being polyamorous.

Based on your words, I don't think you could ever have a satisfying connection with a man which was not much more than merely a sexual connection. I think you and I are are of the same species in this way. I LOVE men. I LOVE women (though most of my "romantic" and sexual experience has been with men). I do NOT want sex without love -- especially now. Sex without love is like eating cardboard or cotton candy -- unsatisfying, empty calories.

If your Darling One is willing for you to have sex with men you are not bonded with in a loving relationship, but not willing for you to be sexual with a man you love, THAT is the crux of the matter.

If I were in your shoes (I have my own shoes), I'd take a leap of faith risk ... and bet that she can make the crossing into accepting your orientation -- acknowledging and accepting your need and desire to be bonded with a man and a woman. I suspect this is what you want -- one of each?

Jump, leaping! Something beautiful will catch you in flight -- but you cannot know the details of the outcome. But I promise you you will be caught on a wave of glory and love. Money back guarantee.
 
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It's true that these are fundamental differences we're talking about. And for me, that's just a proof of my love for her. That deep in my heart, sincerely, I'm willing to give up that core being just to be with her, although I'm currently unable to do so (will doesn't immediately translate to capability). Now of course it's going to be excruciatingly difficult to change your core being but I still want to believe it can be done. And if you found someone you're willing to change your core being for, then isn't that a person worth the risk?

I could be wrong but I am hearing this:

  • I am willing to ignore fundamental difference between us.
  • I'm willing to give up my core being just to be with her
    • I am not able to right now.
    • I still want to believe it can be done.
  • I think my willingness to hurt myself proves how much I love her... rather than shows how much I don't like me.
  • Doesn't my willingness to hurt myself mean she is worth the risk of losing a part of myself? The risk of marriage to someone who is not compatible?

I would say NO. Not if you want to be a healthy individual. And NO, not if you want a healthy marriage with the best chance at working out long term.

Why would you offer yourself as "broken" or "incomplete" husband to someone? That doesn't sound like loving her to me. That sounds like short changing her.

I would wonder about anyone willing to accept you with bits chopped off too. What is wrong with her that she wants to cling to this offer? It's not a great offer.

I stick with my suggestion that you two stop AVOIDING talking this out and that you do so before getting married. Be friends instead if it cannot be a good marriage match.

None of this "cross that bridge when we get there." You ARE there. :(

Galagirl
 
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OP, you mentioned before that you're considering giving up being poly for the woman you love, but at the same time have said that based on your experience with trying to be mono, you can't. If you don't have it in you to be mono and you think you're at a great risk of cheating or falling for someone that you'll never be able to be with and resenting your current partner, or over the years will end up continuously trying to talk her into letting you have other relationships because you feel like you need them, then the bottom line is it won't work. And if you love her that much, do you really want to risk putting HER in that situation? And if you love yourself enough, which you should, do you really want to put YOURSELF in that situation?

If you were just curious about it, or didn't seem to feel strongly about needing to be with other people or be able to be bisexual, etc. I might say that it's worth just giving it up. But as others have said, if this is a core part of who you are, why would you compromise that for another person, no matter who they are? And if that person really loved you, why would they want you to be someone you aren't? Just so they can be happy and have what they wanted?

The argument of "should I just throw away X number of years" is bogus. You have THE REST OF YOUR LIFE to live and be who you truly are. Hell, even if you only had 1 year left to live, why wouldn't you want to spend that year being true to yourself?

I respect that you love her and that you both had planned out this life, but you're putting yourself in the crappy position of being forced to live a lie for either the rest of your life, or more likely, until the relationship eventually falls apart (very possibly because of you being forced to live a lie).
 
The argument of "should I just throw away X number of years" is bogus. You have THE REST OF YOUR LIFE to live and be who you truly are.

This. Look up "sunk cost fallacy" - the time spent on something (a relationship, a project, whatever) means nothing if it's not ultimately viable.

GalaGirl's post is PERFECT, and exactly what I was getting at. In addition, making that level of sacrifice (something that is a fundamental piece of YOU) can do one (or both) of two things:
  • Lead to resentment over a number of years down the line as you realize you still HAVE this fundamental piece of you, and you're not allowed/able to express it. Resentment that the person you love doesn't love you FOR all of you, but DESPITE this piece of you
  • Establish a precedent that the things that are important to you aren't important in the grand scheme of things. That you will bend on the things that are important to you. Trying to mitigate this expectation leads to people playing the "guilt card" (See what I sacrificed for you?!), which isn't a healthy thing, either. Sticking up for yourself NOW, while it's something you're struggling with, is much, much healthier in the long run.

And no, I'm not talking out my ass. While I'm not poly, I ended up with a divorce after 17 years of marriage (and 5 years together before that) because I finally started feeling disrespected and unheard by my husband. And because I'd buried my own wants and needs for so long, he couldn't at all understand why certain things were important to me (because they weren't to him), and wouldn't work with me (go to counseling, talk with me about it) because "we never had to before".

Maybe it was a midlife crisis of sorts, but I think there's some truth to the stereotype - as you start realizing your own mortality, you start seeing all the pieces of you that haven't been fulfilled, and you naturally want to fulfill them. It may help mitigate the pain years down the road if you stick up for those pieces now.
 
[River here. I goofed bad. I accidentally clicked on "edit" instead of "quote" and this resulted in my editing PinkPig's post by mistake. Please see the next post after this one for further information. Sorry PinkPig! We'll try to fix this!]

It's so much more loving, imo, to end the relationship while the love is still intact.

There are two very different ways to end a relationship.

(a) break up, go your separate ways, stop being together as a couple (or whatever).

(b) stay together but end the previous relationship. Begin a new relationship together -- by allowing the needed new to enter into it.

Personally, I think all most relationships need is much more empathy and compassion, understanding and kindness -- or, in a word, love. Such love is literally at the heart of (b).

Both (or all three or four) parties, to choose (b), will need to shine the love toward both themselves and their partner/s in somewhat equal measure. That is, we all need to practice compassion and kindness ... and even affection ... toward ourselves. We need to welcome the parts of ourselves which we've been excluding or rejecting (e.g., bisexuality, polyamory...). And perhaps our partners will find a way to welcome those parts of ourselves we've been neglecting or rejecting. Or maybe he/she/they will not. But we should do OUR part in it and welcome ourselves as we really are.

Physically parting ways may not be necessary. Or it may be. But I think we should take the risk of honoring and loving ourselves, being kind and compassionate toward ourselves... and this will make doing so with our beloved so much easier.
 
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Oh, crap! I goofed!

I meant only to quote from PinkPig's post, but accidenally clicked on the "edit" button instead. Sorry PinkPig! I'm not sure how to return your post to how it was, or even if that is possible. I always try to avoid such mistakes by looking very carefully at the bottons, but goofed. Sorry!

Are there any moderators in here who know how to fix this? Is it too late to fix?
 
to PinkPig

PinkPig, I don't know if any record of what you wrote is available. It may have been lost forever with my blunder. If you'd like to re-write what you wrote as we wait to hear from a knowledgeable moderator, please do. My sincere apology for my goof!
 
PinkPig, I don't know if any record of what you wrote is available. It may have been lost forever with my blunder. If you'd like to re-write what you wrote as we wait to hear from a knowledgeable moderator, please do. My sincere apology for my goof!

Lol, River. No worries, I wasn't attached to it ;)
 
Thanks for your understanding, PP.

I guess I'm also human -- OMG! Just when I thought I was Superman!;)

I'll be extremely cautious in the future in choosing buttons to push. I might otherwise cause a nuclear war or something. Sheesh.
 
I guess I'm also human -- OMG! Just when I thought I was Superman!;)

Gasp. You mean you're not superhuman?! :p

As for my words, I almost didn't post in this thread. Just the OP's post about changing the core of who he is for someone else was so deeply offensive and sad to me that I felt compelled to post... but then I couldn't form my thoughts into coherent words. I don't know, I just think we have this notion that loving someone requires us to be with that person. Call me jaded, but now I believe that's a selfish form of love. It kind of goes with this post of yours. I think a kinder, more selfless love values the individual over the relationship (and all that we get by being in relationship with them.) To me, that means loving and honoring the person for the core of who they are while loving and honoring myself for the core of who I am. If our cores don't line up enough for us to live harmoniously without repressing who we are...then to me, selfless love means setting one another free and loving from a distance.
 
It's been said a bunch already, but I guess it doesn't hurt to repeat it. I don't advise changing your core being to make a relationship work. You will never forget your sacrifice, and it will always be a part of your relationship. Whether that would fester or not in the future I can't say.

There's compromise which is healthy, and then there is subsuming yourself into your significant other, which I don't think is healthy.

It may be best to try to work through the misunderstanding and betrayal and baldly speak about this apparent incompatibility with your girlfriend. It may help you both to examine your desires for polyamory and her desires for monogamy, what you both need, any fears you may have, and so on.
 
Hi raindeer,

Re (from OP):
"I know I can't be monogamous but leaving her is not an option."

How, then, do you propose to be nonmonogamous? I can't think of any words you could tell her to convince her to give her consent. Sorry ... :(

Re (from raindeer):
"We've had a strong seven years and aside from the poly/mono issue, we're perfect for each other."

You make it sound like the poly/mono issue is so minuscule ...

Re:
"We happily planned our future together and with the exception of that elephant in the room, we easily overcame other, bigger problems through communication."

Perhaps you feel that if everything else is so good between you, the elephant should be easy to eliminate. I think the only chance you have of solving the problem is to forget about nonmonogamy. Have a traditional marriage with your future wife and don't even think about nonmonogamy. Can you do that?

Re:
"How can you decide between being with the love of your life and keeping a part of your core personality?"

I'll admit you have a really difficult judgment call on your hands. :(

Re (from raindeer):
"But while staying with her is a risk, I see losing her as a bigger risk. She's just too precious."

Fair enough ... but you know that the price of keeping her is, you must be monogamous. You *must.*

Re:
"And if you found someone you're willing to change your core being for, then isn't that a person worth the risk?"

Difficult to say. "Always in motion is the future."

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
(I've never tried reconstructing a post from edit history before, so hopefully it's close):
Maybe it was a midlife crisis of sorts, but I think there's some truth to the stereotype - as you start realizing your own mortality, you start seeing all the pieces of you that haven't been fulfilled, and you naturally want to fulfill them. It may help mitigate the pain years down the road if you stick up for those pieces now.


This. I think that's why midlife divorces, or divorces after many years of marriage, are so common. We settle without realizing we're settling, compromise on things we shouldn't, hold back the parts of us that need to be freely expressed. Years of choking down who you are erodes the love between you and ultimately the relationship fails anyway. It's so much more loving, imo, to end the relationship while the love is still intact.

On this:

And if you found someone you're willing to change your core being for, then isn't that a person worth the risk?
Changing behavioral patterns and questioning old beliefs or social/religious conditioning is worth doing for love, yes. Attempting to change the essence of who you are, is not. You deserve to be with someone who loves you for all the parts of you, not in spite of them. Your gf deserves the same.
 
Hi River,
FYI - I didn't see the deleted post reported in the Moderators' forum. It would have gotten fixed much sooner had we all seen it there. Should you ever happen to delete something by accident again, please post about it in the Moderators' forums instead of waiting for one of us to happen upon it. Thanks!
 
I agree with PPs about how giving up a fundamental part of yourself (or at least trying) is probably only going to delay the inevitable - that you won't be able to be monogamous, you and your girlfriend will both end up hurt, angry, and with broken hearts AND by then, there may be children that have come into this world and also have to deal with the fallout (assuming you're planning on having kids).

My first serious, grown-up boyfriend (the first one that we could sleep alone in a room together and my family wouldn't freak out about it) was nearly perfect for me, in every, single way but one. And by "perfect" mean that people in both his family and friend group and my family and friend group would say things to us like "seeing you together makes me realize that there is someone out there for everybody" (this was when I was monogamous). We were both quirky people, and just like each other in our very quirkiest ways.

So he was damn well near perfect. Except for one thing.

Our sex life was horrible. Horrible! Absolutely terrible physical chemistry. Soooooo bad. Every time we had sex was like that first time you have sex with someone new as a young adult and it's really awkward because you haven't had much sex and don't have confidence and it still feels weird to be totally naked and aroused in front of someone else. Every time. So bad.

Soooooooooooooooooo bad.

Given that this was my first serious relationship as a young adult, I didn't yet know how important sex was to me, and if this was a big deal (spoiler alert: sex is very important to me, and it did turn out to be a huge deal). And he was perfect in eeeeeeeeeeevery other way, so maybe I just needed to figure out how to cope with this sex this, because if I could *just* get over it, life with him would be perfect - wouldn't it?

(there was also this niggling little concern I had, in that I'd always been fundamentally wary of monogamy, in that I couldn't see how staying monogamous and only having sex and a close bond to one person for my Whole Freaking Life would really be satisfying, but hey, I figured that one out for myself in the end, so yay me)

Anyways, after trying for several years, and actually doing a fair amount of therapy over it, I learned that sex was extremely important to me, and that kinky sex in particular was something that I couldn't live without. Which was honestly a bit weird of a thing to realize, since I hadn't had any kinky sex yet in my life. But boy did I love kinky porn.

After a lot of painful agonizing, I realized that me and this guy just couldn't work. This was after years of trying to shoehorn myself into making this sexual incompatibly thing unimportant. I really hurt myself. I really hurt him too, as the longer we were together, the more he assumed that we were always going to be together and he was really happy with that idea, because we were so perfect for each other, except for that pesky sex thing.

(which he was aware was a problem on my end.)

So I broke up with him, and it was one of the most horrible things in the world. It took a whole weekend with a lot of sobbing coming from both of us, and misery, and him asking if I was *sure* that I couldn't just be OK with vanilla sex twice a month or so (which was about how often we had sex, though sometimes it was once a month).

The thing I remember the most was that at the end of that weekend, we laid down together to take a nap. We put our arms around each other. Our cats actually came up and book-ended us, so we were all cuddled together. I was in so much pain, I remember that I thought to myself that I wished we could just stop time there. I didn't want to die. But I wanted us to fall asleep for a hundred years and wake up with everything magically fixed. I wanted that so incredibly badly. Because he was so perfect for me, except for that one damn thing, and I didn't think I could ever find anybody else so wonderful.

To make the rest of this a shorter story, I will say that the following happened - he was so upset about the break up that he cut off all contact with me. I grieved enormously. I dated a number of people afterwards that didn't hold a candle to him. I worried that I'd made a mistake, especially since I'd not only lost our love relationship, but also our friendship.

In the end, when his heart healed, he contacted me, and we reconnected. Weirdly enough, a few months after we reconnected, I met Jon, my current partner, who is - if not THE love of my life - one of the great loves of my life. We're perfect for each other (including sexually!). And my ex is now one of my closest friends. We make wonderful, fabulous friends for each other.

Had I stayed with my ex, and stayed monogamous, I'd have been sexually unhappy my whole life, and not had the amazing relationship I have with Jon I also wouldn't have had a lot of other amazing poly relationships that I've had, and wouldn't give up for all the world. The closeness, the bonds there, the memories, the things I learned about me and helped others learn about them. None of that would exist.

My life would be poorer without those experiences.

If you stay with this woman, then you risk not finding a poly person (or even several poly people) who would be incredible for you. You cut down greatly on your ability to make loving connections with other people.

Yes, there is risk. Maybe you'll never meet someone as amazing as her. But maybe you will. Maybe you'll meet several people who are as amazing as her AND poly, so you can completely be yourself.

The last thing that I wanted to point out was that in your story, you mention that you have found and given up on two male loves in your life. From the sound of it, at least one of them (Guy 1) was poly too. So right there, maybe those could have been incredibly poly relationships that you gave up on, for a relationship where you can't entirely be yourself.

Why did you do that? Are you *sure* you want to live that way?
 
Nice words LizziE.:)
 
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