Retracted Consent

[raindeer]

Hi. New guy here. English is not my native language so please bear with me.

I'm a 26-year-old bisexual male. I have a girlfriend of 7 years and from the beginning of the relationship, I've told her about my sexuality and subsequently, about the fact that I want to have a polyamorous relationship. I did not pressure her into giving consent but upon thinking about it, she reluctantly gave me her permission, given some conditions (as usually experienced in any polyamorous relationship).

We spent the first three years of the relationship with just the two of us. On the fourth year, I met a guy from my university. Let's call him Guy 1. Guy 1 is a charismatic student leader who also has a girlfriend. We became really close and fell in love with each other. I introduced him to my girlfriend and he introduced me to his. The four of us sat down and set rules for the newly formed relationship.

That set of rules didn't last. The girls gradually added constraints to the point that it was no longer reasonable. Eventually, the relationship crumbled. I confronted my girlfriend about this and she told me that she just didn't like Guy 1's personality.

After 2 years, I met another guy. Let's call him Guy 2. We work in the same company and I thought he has a very likable personality. We started off as friends and he even got to know my girlfriend until finally, we confessed our love for each other. Upon informing my girlfriend about this, she angrily disapproved. I asked her what she doesn't like about Guy 2 and she told me that it wasn't about Guy 2; she actually didn't want me to be with anyone else anymore.

We had a big fight after that. I felt betrayed because for 6 years, I thought I had her consent. Nonetheless, I dropped Guy 2 and chose to be with her. We continued our relationship without talking about it. "We'll cross the bridge when we get there," we'd say.

I love her so much and I want to marry her soon. I know I can't be monogamous but leaving her is not an option. I would really appreciate it if you can give your insights about my situation. Thanks!

 

[Polysnow]

I don't have any advice I think would be practically.

But listen, IMO, I would not marry her. DON'T. Not until you feel the situation is settled. You don't want to be bound to somebody by marriage and end up breaking her heart (and yours) by not being able to be the person she wants you to be.

It appears she isn't open to the idea of you being Poly. She might say and try, but in reality, just can't do it...

I'm stuck in the SAME situation, only I would be in Guy 1 or Guy 2's position. When you drop a relationship with someone because of a third person, you can do serious damage to someone like that and cause a lot of pain.

I'm so sorry you are caught in a situation like this. I wouldn't wish this on anyone. If I can help, feel free to PM me or ask questions. At the very least, I can deeply empathize. Yikes.

 

[Dagferi]

If you stay in your relationship with your girlfriend you are going to be forced into a monogamous relationship for the duration of your relationship. Can you handle that the rest of your life?

 

[Inyourendo]

If you stay in your relationship with your girlfriend you are going to be forced into a monogamous relationship for the duration of your relationship. Can you handle that the rest of your life?

That.

 

[GalaGirl]

I am sorry you hurt.

We had a big fight after that. I felt betrayed because for 6 years, I thought I had her consent.

You did have it -- for a time. Now she's changed her mind and she no longer wants to be in a poly network.

It's pretty much the first consent cartoon in the big block here:

http://metro.co.uk/2015/07/01/brill...xual-consent-means-in-everyday-terms-5274497/

So now YOU get to decide what you want more when you cannot have both.

1) The ability to poly

2) Ability to be with this GF

The ability to poly seems important to you. Though painful, I suggest you NOT marry this woman. In fact, break up with her respectfully if you wish to continue to see others and she does not want to be in a poly network.

We continued our relationship without talking about it. "We'll cross the bridge when we get there," we'd say.

That sounds like you both are avoiding having deep talks that you need to be having if you are Engaged.

I love her so much and I want to marry her soon. I know I can't be monogamous but leaving her is not an option

It IS an option. Just not one you want to think about.

I'm sorry. Please do not just "float along" into marriage. You two do not seem compatible for long term marriage from the sound of your post. To me a successful Engagement happens in two ways.

• The people are Engaged in doing the hard talks and find they ARE compatible. They start planning the wedding.
  
• The people are Engaged in doing the hard talks and find they ARE NOT compatible for marriage. They call it off and spare themselves the cost and expense of a wedding and the emotional turmoil of a bad marriage/divorce.

Here you guys are putting off talking -- NOT leaning in and engaging. You are leaning away and avoiding. Please do not avoid. Please ENGAGE and have the hard talks you are supposed to be having to determine deep compatibility if you are considering marriage.

I understand if you are in a grief process as you contemplate the end of a long relationship. Do your self care -- which includes working to accept that she is not the person for you if you cannot be monogamous and she cannot be poly. Be friends instead.

Life is short and it is not a dress rehearsal. You only get the one life. Spending it married to incompatible partner -- that's not good.

Galagirl

 

[vinsanity0]

Never say it's not an option because it is. What kind of relationship do you have? You talk about nothing. Think about that.

 

[raindeer]

Thanks for the comments guys!

I simplified the storytelling because I don't want it to be too long. However, our relationship is obviously more complex than just a choice between being poly or mono. We've had a strong 7 years and aside from the poly/mono issue, we're perfect for each other. We happily planned our future together and with the exception of that elephant in the room, we easily overcame other, bigger problems through communication.

I guess I used the wrong words as well about taking away her consent. She told me she never wanted it in the first place but she initially agreed to it because she loves me. She told me that no matter how many people I introduced to her or who they were, she wouldn't have let it work out. The reason I felt betrayed was because I believe I laid my cards on the table from the beginning and she, on the other hand, lied about giving her consent. I'd compare it to how a monogamous person would feel if someone who has promised him monogamy for 6 years suddenly decided to be polyamorous. However, I understand that she has a right to do that and that's why although I was hurt, we continued with the relationship.

I'm polyamorous and she's monogamous. But we love each other and I don't know if that single aspect is enough for me to think twice about marrying her. It's a big aspect of the relationship, I know, but should we ignore that aside from the fact that we can't decide about that issue, we actually make each other better people?

I told her I'd try to be monogamous but through that 1 year of trying, I know I can't do it. That doesn't mean I want to leave her. And that's why it's a confusing situation for me; how can you decide between being with the love of your life and keeping a part of your core personality?

 

[River]

Hi. New guy here. English is not my native language so please bear with me.

Your English is sparklingly fabulous. Wow. "Bear with me"? You're kidding!?

I don't have much by way of advice for you about your girlfriend, and I can totally relate to your feeling of having been betrayed by her, as you stated the story.

I don't know much about you, but if you lived in my neck of the woods, I'd definitely want to meet you.

I think you should lay all of your cards down on the table with her, completely, utterly. You are VERY clear about your needs, intentions and LOVE for her. If she can't deal with your loving others, ... well, honey, it's not going to work over the long haul and you already know this perfecty well -- in any language.

Whatever you do, please don't marry her without her catching up and agreeing to be on board with you being who you are. This will probably (at minimum) mean she will have to trust your love for her as she trusts that her next breath will not be sucked suddenly out of Earth's atmosphere. She will probably need to trust your love as much as life itself.

I think she should. You're obviously a very fine man.

 

[GalaGirl]

We've had a strong 7 years and aside from the poly/mono issue, we're perfect for each other.

That's the thing. This is is a fundamental value. If you are not compatible there, planning a married future together may have been premature. This is not like you like to cook and she does not.

You could choose to plan a different shape future together instead -- as friends.

The reason I felt betrayed was because I believe I laid my cards on the table from the beginning and she, on the other hand, lied about giving her consent.

Thank you for clarifying that. Indeed -- you did lay your cards out in good faith. And she lied.

She told me she never wanted it in the first place but she initially agreed to it because she loves me.

While I can appreciate the desire to please one's partner, when it comes at the expense of oneself? And at the cost of lying? That's not loving behavior toward self or the partner. It's also not a good choice to make.

She could have been more honest with herself and with you and respected her own limit rather than try to ignore it or suppress it.

It's a big aspect of the relationship, I know, but should we ignore that aside from the fact that we can't decide about that issue, we actually make each other better people?

And being friends instead would stop you from bringing the best out in each other how?

Right now she's lied in the past about her willingness, you feel betrayed, and you guys avoid talking about the hard stuff. That's not sounding like "the best" to me.

how can you decide between being with the love of your life and keeping a part of your core personality?

You can keep your core part of your personality and continue to love her all your life.

You could do it by allowing the relationship shape between you to change. Stop trying to force "marriage shape" on to it. Be ok taking a step back from that and considering if being in a shape called "lifelong friends" is a better fit instead.

It may take some time. It will require a period of sadness and healing, but then you can both enjoy each other in a way that DOES work.

It's better than banging head on the wall.

I told her I'd try to be monogamous but through that 1 year of trying, I know I can't do it. That doesn't mean I want to leave her.

I know you do not wish to consider breaking up. Even so, do not copy her. Don't agree to something that does not really fit you just to avoid a break up.

She did that already with the lying about her willingness to be Open. It did not work and eventually came out.

I honestly think the best solution is to focus on being friends rather than dragging it out a couple more years. If you have been together 7 years and still cannot find it in you to be totally honest and clear in communication with each other as a couple set on the marriage path, maybe you just aren't marriage compatible.

Time perhaps to accept that and try a new model -- one of (close friends) instead. I do not suggest you "float along" in to marriage or remain in "gridlock."

If you cannot agree -- that means you cannot agree. And that to me means no marriage. To me, marriage has to be both people saying "Yes" joyously. I do not hear that happening here.

I hear two people sad going "i wish I could say yes but then there's this thing..." So to me that means a "No" with regrets.

Galagirl

 

[vinsanity0]

As complex as it is, you are still talking about your "core being".

I understood your first post. She didn't really give you consent. You assumed it. The two of you did not talk about it for two years, yet you pursued another relationship. Communication is key in any type of relationship. It's easy to think you have a great relationship if you discuss nothing with your partner. I urge the two of you to talk it out.

 

[River]

I told her I'd try to be monogamous but through that 1 year of trying, I know I can't do it. That doesn't mean I want to leave her. And that's why it's a confusing situation for me; how can you decide between being with the love of your life and keeping a part of your core personality?

I suspect it's more than just polyamory at stake in the "part of your core personality." It's also the bisexuality (and bi-amorousness, which is something even more).

As one who is also bisexual and bi-amorous, I can say that I'd never want any of my partnerships/relationships to constrain my freedom to be and explore the whole of my being. And it sounds to me from what you say, Raindeer, that you realize that you simply cannot do so. Not over the long haul.

You may be ideal, even perfect mates in all other ways, but if this one thing cannot be worked out, the odds are it will fester and grow stale or ugly in time. The conflict may deepen and worsen ... and you may end up loving her but also feeling imprisoned by a relationship agreement which is unworkable for you.

My hope for you and she is that she will honor your initial understanding and agreement, in which you were clear with her from early on about who you are and how you must live to be true to yourself -- and, ultimately, happy. It sounds to me that you're crystal clear and strong in who you are, and that she's not so sure she can be with you as the person you really are. It's probably ultimately a trust issue -- and you seem to trust your own nature. It is she who is not so sure that she can trust that. Or so it seems to me.

 

[raindeer]

It feels kind of new that most of the feedbacks I get now is to stick with my polyamorous side (of course, primarily because this site is about polyamory). Whenever I talk to my friends about this, almost all of them tell me that I should stay with my girlfriend because she's actually a pretty amazing woman. Polyamory is still considered taboo in my community (like in most communities, I'd imagine) and even during the time I felt betrayed by her, they kept referring to it as just her realizing what's truly "right" and that continuing my poly ways is essentially "wrong". It's refreshing to find a group of people who will balance that out.

"I'll leave her so I can be with other people," of course, is easier said than done. Aside from the fact that I love her, I have fears that hinder me from acting upon that slightest urge of leaving

Will I be able to find someone I'll love more than I love her?
Will I be able to find someone who will love me more than she does?
Will I be able to find someone who'll be willing to agree to a polyamorous relationship given the community I am in?
Will that make me truly happier than just staying with her?
And there are lots of other questions and fears that keeps on bothering me about that thought.

What if I leave... and that's not really what I want?

 

[vinsanity0]

My advice actually had nothing to do with poly. I just know what it is like to deny something that is part of your core being. In my case it was bdsm. The poly was secondary to that. Fortunately, my wife was open to poly already (she was the one who turned mono on me and I was fine with that) so that solved everything.

River brought up a good point and it made me wonder. Is your girlfriend ok with you being bi? Does she expect you to keep that in check or something?

 

[Tinwen]

Will I be able to find someone I'll love more than I love her?
Will I be able to find someone who will love me more than she does?

I am rather monogamous (meeting a polyamorous person) and I see how you want to be with the "love of your life".
But "love more" sounds terrible to my ears. There is a thought at the core of polyamory, which I agree with, that each love is different, special on it's own and incomparable. Whether you decide on leaving and searching another partner(s), or whether you can open up for a male partner, no, you won't find a person who loves you more. You can find a person to have a different relationship with you, perhaps even one that suits you better in terms of love language/communication/whatever. I find it useful to think about love and the functionality of the relationship separately.

 

[Dagferi]

My advice would be the same even with a different issue for example I love animals. I have pets. Currently 3 dogs, two cats, 2 guinea pigs.. Heck I work in veterinary medicine.

I could never be married to someone who didn't like animals and banned me from having pets.

 

[GalaGirl]

It's ok to be fearful of a new future -- because one cannot predict how it will work out. At the same time, staying in something incompatible because of fear of change is not a good reason to keep doing the thing that does not match.

All these questions sound like you climbing the stairs. Which is good! Keep going.

Before you were at "It is not an option to leave. I won't." Now you are wondering what it might be like with those questions. ("How do I do it? What will happen?")

What do you need to climb the next step?

Galagirl

 

[YouAreHere]

My advice would be the same even with a different issue for example I love animals. I have pets. Currently 3 dogs, two cats, 2 guinea pigs.. Heck I work in veterinary medicine.

I could never be married to someone who didn't like animals and banned me from having pets.

This.
Fundamental differences aren't small things. It's the same as one partner never, ever wanting children, and the other partner hoping they'll change over time. They grow into huge chasms, and can spark resentment over time.

If you're planning to make a lifetime commitment, do you really see yourself happy in 10 years? 30? If not, the time to work on this (or say, "I'm sorry but I can't do this") is now.

 

[River]

River brought up a good point and it made me wonder. Is your girlfriend ok with you being bi? Does she expect you to keep that in check or something?

Yeah, if I were in a lifetime monogamous relationship I'd never again have the experience of creating a romantic connection with a person of one of the two sexes. (I use sexes to mean something other than "genders" here. There are many more than two genders.) And I think my bisexuality and bi-amorousness is an even more basic core part of who I am than my polyamorousness. I'd not be comfortable locked into such a situation -- no matter how much I loved my partner.

 

[raindeer]

I am rather monogamous (meeting a polyamorous person) and I see how you want to be with the "love of your life".
But "love more" sounds terrible to my ears. There is a thought at the core of polyamory, which I agree with, that each love is different, special on it's own and incomparable. Whether you decide on leaving and searching another partner(s), or whether you can open up for a male partner, no, you won't find a person who loves you more. You can find a person to have a different relationship with you, perhaps even one that suits you better in terms of love language/communication/whatever. I find it useful to think about love and the functionality of the relationship separately.

Come to think of it, that makes sense. Sorry if I used the term "love more" but I think you understand the fear related to that. Basically, it's the fear of letting go and realizing that what you had was what you wanted all along.

It's easy to say that I will find someone else and I will be able to share a different kind of relationship with them. I acknowledge the fact that without letting go, I wouldn't know the answer to my questions. But while staying with her is a risk, I see losing her as a bigger risk. She's just too precious.

This.
Fundamental differences aren't small things. It's the same as one partner never, ever wanting children, and the other partner hoping they'll change over time. They grow into huge chasms, and can spark resentment over time.

If you're planning to make a lifetime commitment, do you really see yourself happy in 10 years? 30? If not, the time to work on this (or say, "I'm sorry but I can't do this") is now.

It's true that these are fundamental differences we're talking about. And for me, that's just a proof of my love for her. That deep in my heart, sincerely, I'm willing to give up that core being just to be with her, although I'm currently unable to do so (will doesn't immediately translate to capability). Now of course it's going to be excruciatingly difficult to change your core being but I still want to believe it can be done. And if you found someone you're willing to change your core being for, then isn't that a person worth the risk?

Yeah, if I were in a lifetime monogamous relationship I'd never again have the experience of creating a romantic connection with a person of one of the two sexes. (I use sexes to mean something other than "genders" here. There are many more than two genders.) And I think my bisexuality and bi-amorousness is an even more basic core part of who I am than my polyamorousness. I'd not be comfortable locked into such a situation -- no matter how much I loved my partner.

Thanks for empathizing as a fellow biamorous person. I've always believed in the concept that people can love more than 1 person but the main reason I wanted to act upon that is my bisexuality; I wanted to be able to experience loving both sexes (I would guess that's the situation with most biamorous people).

I'm focusing, however, on the polyamory side because I believe being bisexual is just being able to love people from both sexes but you don't need to have a relationship with both to be considered bisexual (there are lots of monogamous bisexuals). I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't want to put that extra weight on her because she's not preventing me from being bisexual, just from being polyamorous. And while the two concepts kind of merge for biamorous people, making it a sexuality issue as well makes it more complicated for me (especially since bisexuality surely is a complicated sexuality to begin with).

 

[River]

And if you found someone you're willing to change your core being for, then isn't that a person worth the risk?

Being willing to risk Big Things in order to be together with someone we love is a very admirable and powerful thing. Being willing to sever one's self from their true essence or "core being" is ... going to far. If I were in your shoes, dear friend, I'd take another risk altogether. I'd risk trusting that if she knew and understood your love for her fully ... she'd consent to you sharing your life with at least one other person (most likely another man, basing my guess on your own words). Her fear (and I'm guessing she's afraid) is -- based on your words -- unwarranted. But it appears she does not yet know and understand this. I think she will. I have trust and faith in your bond and in your communicative capacities. I don't think she'd give you up so that you can be yourself by loving one other (likely a man). I also trust that you will know how to dance with this. You're a very fine human being. I can tell. And smart, too.

And while the two concepts kind of merge for biamorous people, making it a sexuality issue as well makes it more complicated for me (especially since bisexuality surely is a complicated sexuality to begin with).

My feeling with you is that you are fully and truly biamorous, and this is quite another matter from being bisexual, merely. Many bisexual people can have a bit of same sex sexual relating "on the side" and be okay (while heterosexually partnered). For them, it's more about the same sex sexual contact than the loving. But you're not like that, are you? I know you are not. You're a lover, deep down. And sex, for you, is about sharing love -- one of the ways of sharing and expressing love. Am I right?

Personally, I think truly biamorous men are relatively rare beings, and I want to celebrate them and encourage them to be who they are -- and live that. They/we bring someting into the world which the world needs. It's a bit of a mystery, but that's how it FEELS to me. I'd like to encourage you to celebrate and honor your biamorousness -- in whichever way works for you, in all soulful honesty.

I trust and know you will do precisely the best thing with it, whatever that may be.