Secondary to married man. I shouldn’t put in as much effort?

[SuperDaisy]

Hi everyone! This is my first post and first poly relationship.

I have been a girlfriend to a married man for about 6 months now. I wish I could love him with all my heart and just be happy, but I always feel like I should hold back, because his true love belongs to someone else. Even though he says he loves me. I never ask to spend time with him... I wait until he wants to see me. If he doesn’t text me first, that usually means we just don’t text until he does. That doesn’t mean I don’t cry in the meantime because I feel he is busy with his real life and wife. Too busy for me.

I feel like he should always be making the effort to see me and make me feel important to him. Is this the wrong way of thinking? I’m not seeing anyone else. Only him so he is all I have. Are my expectations too high?

As a secondary, am I wrong in thinking he needs to put in the effort to keep me happy? Especially since I know he is uncomfortable with me seeing anyone else.


Also, as a secondary dating a married man, how can I learn to respect myself? How can I become ok with never being married myself if I stay with him?

 

[GalaGirl]

I am sorry you struggle.

I don't know if it will help you, but I am going to flip your post upside down so you can see it that way.

Also, as a secondary dating a married man, how can I learn to respect myself?

I think you could stop holding back and actually participate in this relationship if you care to be here. Stop shrinking yourself so much. It will either pan out or not pan out as any dating relationship would. But stop being this "shrunken, hanging back" version of yourself. That is not self honoring behavior nor self respectful behavior.

And stop "down talking" yourself like you are not a "real relationship" like his wife. If you feel or think like participating in a V like this makes you less real or disposable or whatever? Date 1:1 instead. Don't be in relationship models you don't actually like. That is respecting your own personal preferences/limitations.

How can I become ok with never being married myself if I stay with him?

If you want legal marriage, accept it's not gonna be with him. You can have commitment ceremonies with him, but not legal marriage. Bigamy in most places is a no-no.

So if you want to be married eventually? Start dating other people too. Ones who can offer you legal marriage. He cannot.

As a secondary, am I wrong in thinking he needs to put in the effort to keep me happy? Especially since I know he is uncomfortable with me seeing anyone else.

Where is he NOT doing enough effort? You do not actually say what you want more efforts in. How's he supposed to know you are not happy if you don't communicate? He cannot be a mind reader.

When you hang back and don't fully participate in this relationship are YOU putting in the effort to keep you happy?

I feel like he should always be making the effort to see me and make me feel important to him.

Why? You don't think relationships are a two-way street? Were both partners participate?

Is he the one devaluing you or are you the one devaluing you?

To me I'm hearing you avoid connecting with him because YOU think you are "less than." That's not him devaluing you.

Is there more to the story? Does he devalue you somehow? I do not see from the original post examples of him doing that behavior.

Is this the wrong way of thinking? I’m not seeing anyone else. Only him so he is all I have. Are my expectations too high?

You seem to expect that your partner has to do all the work and "carry" you in a relationship while you hang back. Are those the expectations you have? If so, I don't think that's healthy or realistic.

This is what you list that you do:

• I don't give myself permission to love him with all my heart and just be happy.
  
• I hold back, because (I think) his true love belongs to someone else.
  
• I never ask to spend time with him. I wait until he wants to see me.
  
• If he doesn’t text me first, that usually means we just don’t text until he does.

So WHERE are you in this relationship? You don't sound very present in it from your behaviors. If it's basically a kind of "meh" relationship that you are kinda checking out on... why be there? Finish checking out and end it. Make a decision.

I could be wrong in my impression. But to me it sounds like you want more time and connection but don't actually want to ask him. Then you feel sad and cry because you get lonely since you decided not to date anyone but him. Then tell yourself that he is busy with his real life and wife and too busy for you. Like "why bother asking him... he'd say no anyway" sort of thinking.

It also sounds kinda like you want him to be a mind reader and when he "fails" to do it "right" you get upset that way too.

Here's what you list that he does:

• He says he loves me.
• He wants to see me
• He says he is uncomfortable with me seeing anyone else.

The first two sound fine. He cares and he engages with you.

The third -- well... could talk it out with him. What does he need to BECOME comfortable? It may be you need to actually date other people. Like... he's willing to work on it, but you eventually have to actually date other people for him to actually get the practice of sharing your time and attention in real life rather than only in theory. Or is it that he wants an OPP?

I would suggest you start actually participating and engaging in this relationship if you want to be here rather than hang back and feel all sad he cannot be a mind reader. Actually ASK for what you want/need.

If you don't want to be here anymore because it feels meh? Then end it properly and stop dragging it out. Your time is valuable. Could behave like it.

Date other people if you want to find a marriageable partner. He's not it. He can be in your poly network if you want to continue with him that way, but he's not ABLE to be the spouse person for you. Bigamy is not allowed.

Stop telling yourself you are "less than" like you just stink. Why be your own self bully? How is that self-respecting or self-honoring behavior?
It also doesn't sound like you have fun doing it.

You are allowed to take up the space you do in this world.

I hope things improve for you.

Galagirl

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

It feels like you feel your partner should feel a sense of guilt that he cannot give you everything that would be available in a traditional monogamous relationship. Therefore, he is constantly in a state of being "in the dog house" and having to "make up" for the limitations he chooses (like his marriage).

If you text me 2 x per week, I'd assume that is your preferred level of contact for our relationship and I'd try to mirror that. So if you were doing this to me because you wanted me to "chase" you in some attempt to prove your significance in my life, you'd have a long wait. I'd be thinking I'm more assured of you sticking around if I don't crowd you or do other things that are against your preferences. Especially as you're already in this new situation with me. I wouldn't want to push too hard.

He may be uncomfortable with you seeing other people, but that doesn't mean he won't be able to live with it. Nor does it sound like he is prohibiting it within the terms of your relationship.

 

[Dagferi]

GalaGirl put everything I wanted to say into words nicely. The only thing I would add is this.

I do not know how old you are but adulthood is busy for a lot of us. Murf my husband is monogamous. On the days we do not see each other it is not abnormal not to hear from him. He works 12 hour shifts at a hard physical job. On his days off he has to run errands, do his household chores, spend time with his dog, and likes to catch up on sleep.

Me right now I am going through a lot of health issues. I was diagnosed with duodenal cancer in October. On top of that I have uncontrolled gastritis and now my gallbladder is acting up. I am also still working full time. I also have kids who need me and pets who need my attention.On top of that I have elder care isaues that I try and help with long distance. I am honestly tired and run out of hours in the day.

If you want to talk with him than reach out. If you want to see him make plans.

Marriage is just a legal contract that intermingles your debt and assets anymore. It does not make a relationship magically special. Heck it does not even mean you can be on your spouse health insurance anymore. The only reason I am married to Butch is so I get his pension if he dies. Our state does not allow nonmarried partners to receive survivors benefits unlike my 401k who allows me to decided who I leave my money to.

 

[FallenAngelina]

Also, as a secondary dating a married man, how can I learn to respect myself? How can I become ok with never being married myself if I stay with him?

Respecting yourself doesn't happen because you sit down and decide to respect yourself, despite all of the internet memes to the contrary. Respecting yourself happens when you choose to honor what you want and what you value instead of choosing fear, worry and shame. Right now, you're choosing to engage with an awful lot of worrisome and shameful thoughts, as if being involved with a man who is already "claimed" is shameful and ipso facto makes you lesser-than. The option that poly provides is the choice of pride and love, but this option is only of use to you if you indeed want it and value it. Are you OK with never being married yourself? Start from the place of what you want, not from the place of needing to be respected, valued, treasured. No amount of reassurance from any man can override your own fears, doubts and uncertainties.

What do you want in a relationship? Start there.

 

[Dagferi]

If you do not want to be secondary in a relationship do not get into that sort of relationship. End things and find someone who can give you want you want and need.

 

[anamikanon]

I wish I could love him with all my heart and just be happy, but I always feel like I should hold back, because his true love belongs to someone else.

Is this because of how he behaves with you or because you imagine "secondary" to be less important? I see two separate things here. One is the level of commitment, practical life arrangements, etc - which he shares more with his primary partner. The other is feelings.

There is no rule that says if you love one person, you can't love another - that is poly!

The idea of "true love" implies a false love also. One that isn't true. This is not very respectful to you.

However, if you're holding back, you'll never see the relationship thrive and reach its potential.

Even though he says he loves me. I never ask to spend time with him... I wait until he wants to see me. If he doesn’t text me first, that usually means we just don’t text until he does. That doesn’t mean I don’t cry in the meantime because I feel he is busy with his real life and wife. Too busy for me.

Have you considered that given that you never initiate contact, he may feel like he's imposing on you?

Chats are such a wonderful thing. Everyone can read and respond at their own convenience. What stops you from messaging him?

It is something to think about. You are putting the onus on him for your feeling neglected, without actually asking for what you need. How is he to know?

I feel like he should always be making the effort to see me and make me feel important to him. Is this the wrong way of thinking? I’m not seeing anyone else. Only him so he is all I have. Are my expectations too high?

How will we know? Only he knows if your expectations are too high for him. Have you asked him?

Also, if this is what you need, and he isn't able to offer it, is it not better you know now rather than later, after much feeling of neglect and investment?

As a secondary, am I wrong in thinking he needs to put in the effort to keep me happy? Especially since I know he is uncomfortable with me seeing anyone else.

As a human being, you aren't wrong for having needs. This includes if you need to see anyone else.

Also, as a secondary dating a married man, how can I learn to respect myself?

You can learn to respect yourself by not randomly ascribing lower status to yourself or, for that matter internalizing inferiority based on labels like "secondary". By considering your own needs as valid and articulating them as your side of the relationship.

There isn't really a "respecting yourself as a secondary" - you respect yourself. Period.

How can I become ok with never being married myself if I stay with him?

That is between you and him. You could still marry. Or not. Or live with him and his wife or something else. Six months sounds early for "never".

 

[MsEmotional]

I will answer your question from two perspectives.

First of all, I am married and have a boyfriend who is (aside from his relationship with me) single. I can guarantee you that I don’t love my boyfriend any less than my husband. I can guarantee you that I want and expect him to fully participate in our relationship — which means sometimes initiating contact and reaching out to make plans, etc. There are lots of things that make my relationship with my husband different from my relationship with my boyfriend, but depth of feeling or desire for connection and engagement are no different.

Also, I was, at one time, uncomfortable with the idea of him seeing other people. I got over it. It took effort on my part, but I did it and I am glad I did. I feel so much better now that he is dating other people and I don’t feel solely responsible for his relationship happiness. Your boyfriend may be uncomfortable with you dating other people, but it is 100% your right to do so. It is his responsibility to manage his discomfort or admit that he isn’t able to participate in ethical non-monogamy.

As far as marriage, my boyfriend is welcome to find another partner to marry and I am still hoping/expecting that if he does we will still be together. Additionally, even though it wouldn’t be a legal marriage, he and I have often discussed the idea of formalizing our commitment with a ceremony of some kind.

The other perspective that I have is that in another relationship I, too, am in a 6 month relationship with a married man. This partner is also one that is perhaps more distant like your guy — especially at the beginning, I was the first one to text Every. Dang. Time. You know what I ended up doing? Following the advice of my therapist and folks on here, I talked to him about it. I expressed how it made me feel to always be the initiator. And whadayaknow? He has gotten a ton better. He frequently initiates contact now and apologizes/explains if he goes radio silent for a weekend. And it doesn’t even bother me when he goes silent for awhile now, because I DON’T perceive it as him “not wanting to talk to me” anymore.

I still struggle with my insecurity. Sometimes I have to practice a lot in order to find my voice to bring up sticky subjects. But I am getting better and finding that pretty much every time I work up the courage to open up to him about my feelings, I am more confident afterwards and the relationship gets a little better because he knows what bothers me and can better predict how to communicare with me the way that feels best to me. Just yesterday he had to cancel plans and he acknowledged before telling me that he recognized how important planning ahead is to me and that he is trying hard to not make calendar errors. Honestly, the date in question was just a bonus lunch date and it wouldn’t have been that big of a deal to me — but the fact that he acknowledged that he knew planning is important to me really meant A LOT. And he wouldn’t have known that about me if I hadn’t had “difficult discussions” with him about it previously.

So my point is, you are in charge of this relationship as much as he is. Stick up for yourself and tell him what is important to you. Expressing your vulnerabilities and discussing your experiences in the relationship is what leads to deeper connection.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello SuperDaisy,

You should read the Secondaries' Bill of Rights, it puts being a secondary in a whole new perspective. Just because you are secondary doesn't mean you should be treated like a second-class person. You have rights. Stand up for them.

In poly, one's true love can belong to more than one person. There can be two true loves. His wife can be his true love, and you can be his true love too.

If you need him to spend more time with you (and more time texting you), tell him so. Don't feel like you need to hold back. If you want him to see you, call him and ask. If you want him to text you, text him first. It is okay for you to initiate things. If you're crying when he's not around, clearly you need him to spend more time with you. Tell him so. Don't wait for him to figure it out on his own, he may not realize what your needs are. Don't assume that he is too busy for you.

You and he should both be making the effort to get together and to show each other that you are important to each other. I think you are assuming that because he is married, his wife has the right to demand his time and effort and you do not. That isn't, or at least shouldn't be, true. He is poly. Both of his partners should be able to ask for his time and attention.

Your expectations are not too high, on the contrary they are too low. You are thinking it is not okay for you to make the first move. It is okay. Make the first move.

He needs to put in the effort to keep you happy. Tell him what you need him to do. Be specific.

It is unfair for him to not want you to take on a second partner when he already has two partners. Tell him this. If you want to date other people as well as him, do it. If you want to get married, date other people so that you can get married with one of them.

The bottom line is, don't let yourself be treated as a second-class citizen just because you are a secondary. Stand up for your rights. And even then, I wonder if you even are a secondary to him. Has he told you that, explicitly? Just because his wife is primary, doesn't mean you can't be primary too. He may want to marry you, and just can't because it isn't legal.

Tell me more details about your situation, it will help me give better advice.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[SuperDaisy]

Thank you all for helping me see this from another perspective.

And thank you MsEmotional for your perspective.

I think I am mostly wanting reassurance that f I choose to stay with him, he can come to love me as much as his wife and respect me, even if society won’t. I wouldn’t want to feel like a secondary forever.

And kdt26714...thank you for helping me see my expectations are low. I don’t know why I let myself feel second class and set low expectations. I think because I love him, I only want to tire him out and make seeing me not worhbit anymore. I guess if I’m unhappy though, that might be the way things play out anyway.

 

[SuperDaisy]

And KDT...
Thank you for helping me see my expectations are too low. I don’t know why I let myself feel like a second class person. Probably because I love him and don’t want to tire him out to the point he feels it’s not worth t seeing me anymore. I guess if I’m unhappy, that might be how things work out anyway.

 

[kdt26417]

I suppose you could just ask him, "If you start seeing me more, will that tire you out?" If he says yes, then you know where you stand with him and what you can expect. IMO he should be willing to see you more, as much as he sees his wife, but I don't know whether he'd agree with me.

 

[GalaGirl]

I don’t know why I let myself feel like a second class person. Probably because I love him and don’t want to tire him out to the point he feels it’s not worth t seeing me anymore. I guess if I’m unhappy, that might be how things work out anyway.

I could be wrong, but I think you confuse "having some needs" with "being too needy."

If you want to see him 2x a week and he can only do 2x a month? That's not you being "too needy." That's simply not being compatible dating partners.

Like if I'm a homebody and someone I date is a big travel person. Doesn't make either person terrible. Just not compatible.

ASK him how often he can get together. TELL him how much you would like to see him. Sort this out together to see what schedule is doable. Actually participate in your relationship.

Galagirl

 

[Magdlyn]

And KDT...
Thank you for helping me see my expectations are too low. I don’t know why I let myself feel like a second class person. Probably because I love him and don’t want to tire him out to the point he feels it’s not worth t seeing me anymore. I guess if I’m unhappy, that might be how things work out anyway.

I am seeing a guy who is married. He's on his second wife and rather newly poly. He's only been with his wife 2 years, married less than one year. They have 5 kids between them, age 3-14.

At first he was able to see me every 3 weeks. For a nice long 6 hour date. Then the dates became shorter and finally, less frequent. His kids take up a lot of his time and money, more than he'd first expected. So now I haven't seen him in 2 months. Also, we aren't texting as much as i like to keep feeling connected. We try but he doesn't seem to make time for more than one sentence a day. That's not a conversation!

This is not what I want from a boyfriend. So I don't even really consider him my bf anymore. I know he likes me and I definitely like him, I almost started to love him when we were getting together regularly. But then his reality struck him and now we seem to be fading. So this is how it goes in poly sometimes. I know he has a huge heart and is probably capable of loving me, loving his wife, loving his kids and other friends and family. Love isn't like a pie, only so much for everyone. But time and other resources are finite and can only be stretched so far.

I also have a nesting partner so it's no big tragedy that the relationship with the bf isn't working out so well. It's disappointing though.

 

[MayDecember]

I am mostly wanting reassurance that f I choose to stay with him, he can come to love me as much as his wife and respect me, even if society won’t. I wouldn’t want to feel like a secondary forever.

Good on you, hon - for getting it crystalized. Lucid.

What about children?

We have everything in writing including a budget for a second household - and it is physically impossible for me to have kids after being snipped so the mistress knows from day 1 no kids.

 

[FallenAngelina]

...don’t want to tire him out to the point he feels it’s not worth t seeing me anymore. I guess if I’m unhappy, that might be how things work out anyway.

You're putting everything on how he might feel and what he might want. You're abdicating the influence of your own inclinations. How would you like this relationship to unfold?

 

[SuperDaisy]

I guess I’m wondering how I get over the feeling of being second. I don’t see how it’s possible. There’s no way he will ever see me as equal to his wife... she’s his wife! Even if we have some stupid ceremony in the future, no one will take me seriously.

If any married men with a girlfriend can share their thoughts it would help so much I think. Either positive or negative.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you struggle.

If what you need is to be the legal wife to feel the most important, to take yourself and your place in his life seriously, and enjoy the "automatic" standing and privileges that role comes with in society? Then no.

You are not gonna get it here with this guy because he already has a wife. He cannot offer you that position.

That is the price of admission to poly dating this guy. Accepting you are just not gonna get those things with him.

And no. Even if you have commitment ceremony? Society at large may not recognize your place in his life as important. And you yourself may still view yourself as "second" in his life.

So it is basically up to you. If YOU don't like the limited role you can have in his life? You don't have to accept it. You can decline to participate. There is no point in bending yourself into pretzels and banging head on wall over this.

If you value those things the most? You could decide to stop seeing him, or stop dating only him. Seek a poly partner who CAN offer you that position in his life. Or date monogamously so you can find a partner than CAN give you those things that you value a lot.

Love alone is not enough to sustain a relationship or make it a long haul runner. There has to be other things for deep compatibility.

I think you are bumping into that. And I'm sorry. I can imagine it is not easy for you.

At the same time.... it's only 6 mos in. You don't have to be giving this relationship THIS much anguish.

You dated, it was initially compatible, and now after a time it's looking like no. Not a long haul runner. Not enough here for deep compatibility. You don't feel great in this relationship, worry about not being important enough, and don't want to give up the desire to be married one day.

So... rather than finding ways to talk yourself into continuing in it like this when you feel this yucky dating only him?

Could instead accept it is not deeply compatible. It was good while it lasted but it is not a long haul runner. Then choose to date others or choose to end it with grace so your suffering can stop.

If it has to be a break up? Nobody LOVES breaking up. Yet that is a part of dating. Some of them just aren't going to be deeply compatible.

Galagirl

 

[gerida]

Just because you are secondary doesn't mean you should be treated like a second-class person. You have rights. Stand up for them.

I Agree with this above very much.
I know it's a proces of learning, but just keep in mind: Stand up for them and "talk, talk and talk". Tell him what you think !!!

 

[Dagferi]

Why stay is a relationship that does not fit your needs or wants.

Ending things doesn't mean he is a bad person or make you a bad person just incompatible.

Life is too short to continue a relationship that doesn't chrck all the boxes. Why be miserable? Sometimes love is not enough.