Seeking advice on NRE affecting sexual connection with current partner(s)

[Matcha Matcha Man]

More to say. Sorry for the multiple posts.

Good to look at that. I mean, it might be common with swingers? I am not and never have been a swinger. And I sustain sex interest in long-term partners very well. There have been studies on the effect of novelty on sex drive with rodents. An interesting look at promiscuity, in humans, is the anthropological/sociological (but layman-friendly) book Sex at Dawn.

We’re definitely not swingers. We both get the ick with that scene. For me it’s way too hetro, often homophobic, and women are used as a kind of currency. Yes women have a lot of agency and control in the swinger world but who a guy gets to have sex with depends a lot on how hot his wife is. For my partner her dislike stems from the fact that she tends a little demisexual. She doesn’t enjoy anonymous sex and she doesn’t have sex with people she just met. When we have been at a party with a bit of a swinger vibe we have had sex with people we already knew who we came with or saw there. Aside from that we don’t have sex at public sex parties.

The thing is, in polyamory, having more than one partner can become a daily thing, or at least someone you may see multiple times a week. Or you could have "comet partners," where you don't keep in much touch and only see each other once or twice a year.

I’m aware of this. I think she is too. But thanks for the emphasis.

It sounds like both you and your partner are afraid you are both polysexual, but monoamorous. Meaning, you can have casual sex with multiple partners, but might only be able to love one partner at a time. If you do "fall in love" with a new person, you will fall out of love with each other. And this could be the case. But if swinging alone isn't doing it, you might have to take that leap, that chance, and see what happens.

I’m definitely not. I have been in poly relationships in the past, and I know I can love more than one person at a time.

However, my partner has no experience with this, and until recently I got the impression that she didn’t think poly was a real thing, or at least she didn’t have an affinity for it. So I do have a concern that she may be monoamorous. Thank you for stating it that way, as it gives me a better idea about how to present her with that question.

Of course, we won’t really know until it becomes a reality, and not just a hypothetical.

Polyamory is not "couple-centric." It's a network of loves.

My point is, a poly lover is not a "fun escape," but usually a real partner. Actually loving someone means being there with them for the "not so fun" times too, like when they are sick, or dealing with a job loss, or grieving the death of a loved one (human or animal), etc.

One thing that is quite different about polyamory and swinging is that in swinging, the established couple is paramount. You go home with them. You save the vanilla activities and romance for them. Your sex partners are not full life partners.

One thing us poly folk like about polyamory is having more than one "real love, real life" partner. Everyone is a full person to us, not just the vehicle for their genitalia. We have hearts big enough for more than one actual lover. Ack. I wish English had more than one word for love. We can share "heart love" amongst many, not just lust.

All that sounds good to me. But again, I don’t know how much of it my partner has contemplated. I need to understand what poly means to her. As I posited earlier, I think she’s missing the excitement of falling in love-- all her partners since me she has kept at arm’s length. But I’m not sure she has thought beyond that to what will happen after she falls in love with a new person.

 

[Magdlyn]

We’re definitely not swingers. We both get the ick with that scene. For me, it’s way too hetero, often homophobic, and women are used as a kind of currency. Yes, women have a lot of agency and control in the swinger world, but who a guy gets to have sex with depends a lot on how hot his wife is. For my partner, her dislike stems from the fact that she tends a little demisexual. She doesn’t enjoy anonymous sex and she doesn’t have sex with people she just met. When we have been at a party with a bit of a swinger vibe, we have had sex with people we already knew, who we came with, or saw there. Aside from that, we don’t have sex at public sex parties.

People who are into casual sex do skirt on the edges of swinging, I have found. My partner Aries is kind of "swinger-adjacent," as well as being polyamorous. It is possible to have both interests, just as it is possible to be polyamorous and also into some BDSM kinks.

Aries's partner Sadie used to be more of a swinger, but she no longer really does those activities. However, she enjoys going to a certain sex club, where swinging is practiced, because she has friends there, and enjoys dressing in sexy clothes (I am told), so enjoys the social aspect. She and Aries go and have sex in one of the private rooms. Her husband no longer has an interest in even going to this club, but maybe some years back, they used to participate more fully. I don't know. Anyway, any "swinger" probably falls on a spectrum of how much sex they have with whom. I doubt most are indisicrimate and taking all comers.

I agree that it's too hetero (for men; women playing together is always encouraged, right?), and in my mind, can be demeaning to women. But it probably depends on the culture of each individual club. I hope.

Personally, I have too much fear of STIs to ever want to get too involved in this scene. I'm just not an exhibitionist or voyeur either. And it makes me very sad to hear stories of women who accompany their husbands to swinging clubs just so their men can have sexual variety, instead of cheating on them, or abandoning their marriages and families.

I’m definitely not. I have been in poly relationships in the past, and I know I can love more than one person at a time.

However, my partner has no experience with this, and until recently I got the impression that she didn’t think poly was a real thing, or at least she didn’t have an affinity for it. So I do have a concern that she may be monoamorous. Thank you for stating it that way, as it gives me a better idea about how to present her with that question.

Of course, we won’t really know until it becomes a reality, and not just a hypothetical.

All that sounds good to me. But again, I don’t know how much of it my partner has contemplated. I need to understand what poly means to her. As I posited earlier, I think she’s missing the excitement of falling in love-- all her partners since me she has kept at arm’s length. But I’m not sure she has thought beyond that to what will happen after she falls in love with a new person.

The excitement of "falling in love" is what we call enjoying infatuation, limerance or new relationship energy. You can get NRE from just sexual interest, but you can also get it when you sense you and your partner have things in common intellectually and emotionally, and share hobbies and interests. However, this kind of NRE fades too. Real love is proven by going through the hard things together. Your wife might be disappointed by "falling in love," only to just as easily fall out of "love" once the novelty wears off. That kind of seems to be what she does.

 

[dingedheart]

Hi, Dinged Heart and thanks for your reply.

My pleasure.

First I apologize for the formatting, I haven’t figured out yet how to put quotes inline to reply to as you did. Is there an instruction on that somewhere?

I see someone helped you get that sorted.

We’re not married but we live together, have a child and mingled finances so it’s similar.

I see. Yes, very similar.
How old is your child ?

The poly discussion is quite new, so we haven’t discussed things like hierarchy, but from what has been said so far I think she would consider me her primary partner, if for no other reason than we live together and have a kid, plus there’s the 12-year history. I think the stability of our home life is very important to her. I used ”lesser” not as a poly hierarchy term, but to describe how she has been compartmentalizing her (and our shared) other partners so far-- sex only or FWB-- in a different category. This is what we are contemplating changing.

I meant there seems to be on her end a moving away from the primary couple-centric thinking. at least from a romantic sense. Maybe not from a day to day business sense. But from a romantic coupling sense there’s a dramatic shift toward free agency or RA.

To be clear, the poly discussion is not because she has “caught feelings” for one of her other sex partners, actually kind of the opposite: she started dating someone new relatively recently, and while she says they have good chemistry, and have been spending more time together than she anticipated, she thinks he’s completely inappropriate as a long-term partner and she’s starting to feel like she’s investing a lot of time and energy in a situation that has no future. But this is making her realize she is starting to desire a more serious connection with someone, or at least she is missing the feeling of falling in love.

I think it’s good that we are having this discussion now, before it becomes a pressing issue

100% agree.

It’s too early to say what the gulf is between our meanings. We’re just really just starting the conversation. Based on our previous experience, I expect that we will have quite different starting points, but I can’t answer this yet. Certainly my main question I had in starting this thread is an indication that we’re approaching it with different desires.

As yet to be determined. Fair enough.

Yes, I already found the poly hell article and am sharing it with her.

Anything resonate with you? Any comments or reactions from her?

Thanks for the perspective on NRE and how that affects desire for the existing partner. That’s exactly the type of information I came here to find. And of course the dilemma is that I don’t want to feel that she is having sex with me out of a sense of obligation (not that she is the sort of person who would anyhow) but I also know that without a sexual connection with her I would feel differently than I do now about her other lovers, and I think it could break the relationship.

Yes, I can see how this could be a touchy situation.

I realize letting her know that could be seen as a kind of pressure, but I don’t see how not addressing that issue honestly could work.

I think I’d be less concerned about “supposed pressure“ vs honest repercussions/impact. And really, what are we talking about here? Not some crazy concept.

As I alluded to earlier, we are already having some difficulties around mismatched sexual desire, and even differing philosophies about the importance of sex in long-term relationship, with her valuing it much less than I do. It’s something we’re actively working on, but it’s not an ideal starting point for transitioning to a poly relationship.

I’m not sure what we agree and disagree on vis-a-vis poly yet, but so far she has been clear that she sees me as her permanent long-term partner, and has no desire to split. We both realize, of course, that things are only permanent until they’re not.

I’m pretty sure that she’d be happy staying with me as long as I continued to support her autonomy, as I have been so far in our relationship (and this has been mutual, there is no double standard at play here). But if her autonomy will require that she stop having sex with me, mostly or completely, while she concentrates on a new person or people, I think that would break something in me.

Maybe it’s just me, but this strikes me as ironic. "We have different philosophies about the importance of sex in a long term relationship, her valuing it much less." She claims to worry that because of her lack of interest or desire for you that you might transfer or concentrate sexual energy to a new lover. YEAH. NATURALLY. It’s not valued. You don’t want it, don’t appreciate it, so yeah, it will naturally dry up. It’s not so much a justifiable fear, as much as a justifiable reality.

She thinks that if I also had another partner (I’m not currently dating anyone solo) I wouldn’t care as much as I do about the sexual connection with her. And while I agree that it might make things feel less urgent, I still value very highly the sexual connection I have with her and would be unhappy about its absence.

IMO, there are 2 sides that coin. The 12 yr couple romantic side and the rationalization/compartmentalization side. Playing the cards you’re dealt and dealing with the situation is different than what our ideal would be.

In a way, I think that she could end up pushing me into the scenario she says she’s afraid of, where I end up getting the feeling of being desired from another partner and not from her, and I then transfer most of my affection to the new partner. This isn’t at all what I want, I know from previous experience that I can have sexual/romantic love for more than one person. I’m not so sure about her ability to do so.

I think the confused issue is not your sexual or romantic inclinations, but hers. What you’ve described are her one-way streets... her autonomy…her philosophy on dating or temporary pair bonding. She has no ability to do so, which I guess is ok, but to demand that of you seems offensive. Has she or anyone ever thought to look into how she cycles through partners?
Are there any medical diagnoses that you know of?

It’s occurring to me that she may not really be poly and is actually looking for the ability to practice serial monogamy (at least emotionally) while maintaining the safety of a long term relationship. And of course this concern will be part of our poly discussion.

Do you see a huge difference? Poly NRE junkies effectively do the same thing. It’s called shelf life.
And there’s no such thing as a failed relationship based on time. Short or long, they all provide an experience.

Again thanks. And sorry for the long reply and poor formatting.

No thanks needed and the formatting was just fine.

 

[Matcha Matcha Man]

My pleasure

Will edit this heavily as I think I addressed most of what you said already in my overlong answers to others.

I see. Yes, very similar. How old is your child?

Our son is 9. I also have an older son (nearly 20) from a previous relationship who was living with us pretty much full time until about a year ago.

I meant there seems to be on her end a moving away from the primary couple-centric thinking, at least from a romantic sense.

She readily decouples sex and romance, so the thinks we can still have a romantic relationship without the sex. I told her maybe when I’m 85.

Anything resonate with you? Any comments or reactions from her?

She’s actually away on a short trip, and we’re having minimal communication until she gets back, so I haven’t shared any of this with her yet, as she’s not going to have the time to read any of it now, anyhow. I did send her a link to some discussions on this site several days ago before she left, but she was super busy with some work stuff, so I don’t know how much she read, as we didn’t get a chance to talk about it. She doesn’t yet know I joined and have been posting. None of this is ultra urgent, but I’m gathering opinions and perspectives for when we start to discuss this in earnest.

I think the confused issue is NOT YOUR sexual or romantic inclinations, but hers. What you’ve described are her one-way streets... her autonomy… her philosophy on dating or temporary pair bonding. She has no ability to do so, which I guess is ok, but to demand that of you seems offensive. Has she or anyone ever thought to look into how she cycles through partners?

Keep in mind you’re only hearing from me. I’m trying to do a fair job of representing her point of view. But I’m sure I’m a pain in the ass to be in a relationship with as well, in different ways. Also in describing her point of view from a sympathetic perspective I may be making it look like more of a one-way street than it is. It is true, however, that of the two of us, she is more demanding and uncompromising.

Are there any medical diagnoses that you know of?

We are discussing perimenopause and its affect on libido and she is having some treatment, but at most this is a contributing, rather than determining factor. Her pattern of losing sexual interest is clear.

The question is does she see it as a problem and if so, one that has a solution? These are all topics under discussion already (and we have a good couple’s therapist helping us with that).

Again, thanks for your thoughtful reply.

I am still hoping some other people will offer some personal experiences of dealing with NRE and estrangement (perhaps too strong a word). But I wonder how many are already overwhelmed with the novella-length discussion. Brevity is not one of my strengths.

 

[Tinwen]

I just want to comment that it seems derogatory to me that two people now have proposed the wife might be a "NRE junkie" - ie someone who jumps from one relationship to another to experience the kick. She's been in a 12 year primary relationship+longterm fwb, that's not jumping and seeking the kick, to me. If her desire tends to fade significantly after a few years, that's a real challenge to partnered life, but imho it's a pretty common pattern in (female) sexuality, well within the bounds of "normal."

 

[Matcha Matcha Man]

I agree that it's too hetero (for men; women playing together is always encouraged, right?),

Yeah, a particularly porny double standard. Not that I have a problem with porn per se but it can reinforce stereotypes that are at best lazy, and I feel like swingers clubs are mostly populated by people who consume that mindset uncritically.

and in my mind, can be demeaning to women. But it probably depends on the culture of each individual club. I hope.

Where we live there are a few swingers’ clubs that are in beautiful buildings and in the past we have gone to them with groups of friends to take advantage of the facilities (except the pool… ick!) but we haven’t interacted with people outside our group.

One of the couples we play with sometimes enjoy going to a particular swingers’ club. So we don’t categorically dismiss swingers, but we’re not into the environment as a couple.

If I had a partner who was into going to those I’d probably join in, but it’s far from my preferred environment.,

The excitement of "falling in love" is what we call enjoying infatuation, limerance or new relationship energy. You can get NRE from just sexual interest, but you can also get it when you sense you and your partner have things in common intellectually and emotionally, and share hobbies and interests. However, this kind of NRE fades too. Real love is proven by going through the hard things together. Your wife might be disappointed by "falling in love," only to just as easily fall out of "love" once the novelty wears off. That kind of seems to be what she does.

Yeah, that kind of sums it up. I think my partner would argue that we have real love, and I should value that (I do) whether or not we’re having sex with each other (which is a problem for me).

 

[Magdlyn]

Yeah, a particularly porny double standard. Not that I have a problem with porn per se, but it can reinforce stereotypes that are, at best, lazy, and I feel like swingers clubs are mostly populated by people who consume that mindset uncritically.

Where we live there are a few swingers’ clubs that are in beautiful buildings and in the past we have gone to them with groups of friends to take advantage of the facilities (except the pool… ick!) but we haven’t interacted with people outside our group.

We kind of went off topic, but I was trying to determine what we were talking about here when it comes to sex, and separating it from love.

I think my partner would argue that we have real love, and I should value that (I do) whether or not we’re having sex with each other (which is a problem for me).

Yes. From your pov, she is being dismissive of how you want (or need) to express your love. Mismatched libidos must be one of the most common topics here. You are not alone.

I will admit that when I first met my gf we had a much more active sex life. However, she has certain medical struggles that get in the way of her being as sexual as I would like. Her NRE sex interest seemed to dwindle/end after just three months. Mine lasted at least two years, and is just naturally higher than hers overall. Sometimes it seems she'd rather talk about sex than do it, and that makes it worse.

Therefore, I thank the gods we are poly. I always dated men to get sex (as well as companionship, etc.), as Pixi and I were building our long term and wonderful relationship. It hurt to not be able to sexually love her as much as I'd like. Being with others didn't replace my desire for her, at all. But I learned to be happy with it definitely taking the edge off my suffering. Yes, it is an actual physical suffering, that longing. I admit my sex drive is higher than the average woman's. It's one of the reasons I ID as non-binary, in fact.

Luckily she loves to cuddle and kiss, really loves it. So I get plenty of touch, just not actual sex more than once a week or so, and it's not very intense when it does happen.

So, I did/do get sexual satisfaction from men. However, I am also polyamorous, so I don't just date any old person with a hard dick. I need other factors in someone to even desire them. It took me over a decade to find a keeper. I have been with Aries for over four years at this point. He definitely enjoys expressing his love for my physically, and while our frequency has faded a little bit over the past year or so, it's not really his fault. I'm not as young as he is, and arthritis is taking a toll on my ability to roll around in the sheets as much as I myself would like. Still, we have awesome amazing intense sex, and we get creative with kinks too.

That's my journey. You will have yours. I hope your "primary" relationship can survive and even thrive, as mine has. It has taken a lot of talking, openness, good communication skills (non-violent communication style) and patience to be where we are.

 

[dingedheart]

She readily decouples sex and romance, so she thinks we can still have a romantic relationship without the sex. I told her maybe when I’m 85.

Forgive me if I’m getting this wrong, but it sounds like she definitely connects sex with romance in all new relationships, which is why she was giving you a heads-up on cutting you off during the NRE phase. She’s acknowledging that connection at least for that. I think evolutionary psychology and evolutionary biology play a role in all of this.

She’s actually away on a short trip, and we’re having minimal communication until she gets back, so I haven’t shared any of this with her yet, as she’s not going to have the time to read any of it now, anyhow. I did send her a link to some discussions on this site several days ago, before she left, but she was super busy with some work stuff, so I don’t know how much she read, as we didn’t get a chance to talk about it. She doesn’t yet know I joined and have been posting. None of this is ultra urgent, but I’m gathering opinions and perspectives for when we start to discuss this in earnest.

Understood.

Keep in mind you’re only hearing from me. I’m trying to do a fair job of representing her point of view. But I’m sure I’m a pain in the ass to be in a relationship with as well, in different ways. Also in describing her point of view from a sympathetic perspective, I may be making it look like more of a one-way street than it is. It is true, however, that of the two of us, she is more demanding and uncompromising.

We are discussing perimenopause and its affect on libido and she is having some treatment, but at most this is a contributing, rather than determining factor. Her pattern of losing sexual interest is clear.

I'm not trying to hammer this, but I just want to make sure I get this clear. To me, it doesn’t sound like she has loss in libido/sexual interest, but rather she transfers all that energy or interest into a New Romantic Partner, or someone with great chemistry.

To me, it sounds like she’s having sex, enjoys having sex, wants sex, and doesn’t want to toggle between partners physically or emotionally, or something.

The question is does she see it as a problem, and if so, one that has a solution? These are all topics under discussion already (and we have a good couple’s therapist helping us with that).

Again, thanks for your thoughtful reply.

I am still hoping some other people will offer some personal experiences of dealing with NRE and estrangement (perhaps too strong a word). But I wonder how many are already overwhelmed with the novella-length discussion. Brevity is not one of my strengths.

I don’t think anyone has come here with the idea of preparing FOR estrangement. The whole idea of poly is to prevent estrangement. This is a tough question.

 

[Matcha Matcha Man]

Forgive me if I’m getting this wrong, but it sounds like she definitely connects sex with romance in all new relationships, which is why she was giving you a heads-up on cutting you off during the NRE phase. She’s acknowledging that connection, at least for that. I think evolutionary psychology and evolutionary biology play a role in all of this.

Yeah, it fits in with her idea that the initial phase of a relationship is the time when the sexual energy and connection is highest (which is pretty much a given) and that after some time it completely goes away (which I think is far from universal). It’s after that passes that the decoupling happens, when it’s with someone she wants to have an intimate emotional connection to. But she also decouples love and sex in the sense that she can have a friend who she enjoys having sex with, but there is no desire for a more significant emotional connection.

I think these two ideas are related.

I'm not trying to hammer this, but I just want to make sure I get this clear. To me, it doesn’t sound like she has loss in libido/sexual interest, but rather she transfers all that energy or interest into a New Romantic Partner, or someone with great chemistry.

To me, it sounds like she’s having sex, enjoys having sex, wants sex, and doesn’t want toggle between partners physically or emotionally, or something.

I feel like it’s more nuanced than that. In the time we have been together, she has had several sex partners, and none of them have been romantic partners, though she considers some of them to be good friends.

This is actually the first time she is starting to talk about wanting to establish a romantic connection with someone else. Which is why the polyamory term started being used. But like I’ve said, we haven’t even had a discussion yet about what polyamory means to us, individually and as a couple. The only concrete discussion we had, instigated by her, is the idea that when she meets a new person she could imagine wanting to put our sex life on hold, or at least on the back burner. And she seems a bit surprised and disappointed that I’m not on board with that.

Like I said, I don’t think she has any particular person in mind, but I do think the guy she started seeing most recently is the catalyst for her evolving ideas on the subject. But he’s not the right guy to do it with. Now that she’s open to it, I figure she will find the right person eventually.

I don’t think anyone has come here with the idea of preparing FOR estrangement. The whole idea of poly is to prevent estrangement. This is a tough question.

I’m not preparing for estrangement, exactly. I’m talking about it as a risk and looking for ideas for what to do to avoid it.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Matcha Matcha Man,

I haven't offered anything about my experience in handling NRE and estrangement because I don't really have such experience. I have a bad track record with NRE, I have allowed it to convince me to act poorly. If anything it has increased my estrangement in the past. But I would add that NRE doesn't seem to be the problem here; the problem seems to be that you and your partner have differing views of sex. She considers it normal for sex to shut down after the NRE fades. Whereas to you, although sex may diminish somewhat, it should not shut down in a long-term relationship. So she wants a partnership with you in which there is romance, but no sex. This poses a huge problem for you, and maybe poly is just her vehicle for making things pan out according to her philosophy.

I'm sorry I can't be of much help.
Kevin T.

 

[Matcha Matcha Man]

Still a helpful perspective, thanks.

 

[kdt26417]

No prob.

 

[MeeraReed]

Unfortunately, I can't offer advice on successfully navigating a similar situation. Quite the opposite. My partner of 12 years and I broke up after he embarked on a disastrous new relationship where he was so caught up in NRE that he didn't care how badly he was treating me and how crazy his new partner was. His new relationship crashed and burned in little more than 6 months, but so much damage had been done to our relationship that it couldn't be repaired. (We had been poly for all 12 years, so this was a new and weird situation).

But our situation is very different from yours. My ex also had developed chronic pain, recreational drug use, and mental health issues which factored into our breakup.

For your situation: it sounds like your partner loves you and has been honest with you that her sexual interest in you has waned.

I think you will need to find another partner of your own in order to have the fulfilling sexual and romantic relationship that you want.

I think if you have your own other partner, you will actually feel less distressed about the limited sexual connection in your live-in relationship. Maybe your NRE for YOUR new partner may spill over to benefit your live-in partner! Maybe it will allow you to develop the strong romance-with-very-little sex that your live-in partner seems to want with you.

Honestly, I do think it will be painful for you to experience seeing her fall in love with someone she really wants to have sex with, when she doesn't want sex with you. Unless you have your own other relationship(s) to focus on.

 

[dingedheart]

Yeah, it fits in with her idea that the initial phase of a relationship is the time when the sexual energy and connection is highest (which is pretty much a given) and that after some time it completely goes away (which I think is far from universal). It’s after that passes that the decoupling happens, when it’s with someone she wants to have an intimate emotional connection to.

You’re saying after the NRE phase burns off, this sexual decoupling happens when it’s someone she wants to have an intimate emotional connection to. Is that correct?

But she also decouples love and sex in the sense that she can have a friend who she enjoys having sex with, but there is no desire for a more significant emotional connection.

And at the same time, views/enjoys sex with people/friends on a more recreational level with no strings attached.
Hypothetically, would any of these friends/partners/sex buddies be prohibited sex in this new relationship phase? Is she/would she give the warning to these people, as well?

I think these two ideas are related.

I was thinking more in terms of your response and damage a sexless romantic relationship could when both sides are outsourcing.

I feel like it’s more nuanced than that. In the time we have been together, she has had several sex partners, and none of them have been romantic partners, though she considers some of them to be good friends.

Oh, it sounds super nuanced. Sex means something, is special and coveted, and she doesn’t want to share or have that energy divided or poached upon in the beginning. And as NRE/novelty wears off, then it’s ok to sport fuck or hook up with you or whoever. Feel good calorie burn.

This is actually the first time she is starting to talk about wanting to establish a romantic connection with someone else. Which is why the polyamory term started being used.

Did she state why the change in attitude?

But like I’ve said, we haven’t even had a discussion yet about what polyamory means to us, individually and as a couple. The only concrete discussion we had, instigated by her, is the idea that when she meets a new person she could imagine wanting to put our sex life on hold, or at least on the back burner. And she seems a bit surprised and disappointed that I’m not on board with that.

I’m curious. Do you think she was surprised that you wouldn’t understand that was her wish or need, or that she was surprised by you not thinking the same way as her?

Like I said, I don’t think she has any particular person in mind, but I do think the guy she started seeing most recently is the catalyst for her evolving ideas on the subject. But he’s not the right guy to do it with. Now that she’s open to it, I figure she will find the right person eventually.

This might be too personal/invasive, but how often are you having sex with her, and how often is she having sex with this new guy and her other friends? Entering into a polyamorous relationship is partly entering into the mediation/negotiation business. I'd hope/think some creative solutions could be negotiated. 6 months to a yr or longer, resentment can turn into a real bitch. I'd love to know laying next to a spouse or nesting partner 8 months after she arrives back from a date or sleepover?

I’m not preparing for estrangement, exactly. I’m talking about it as a risk and looking for ideas for what to do to avoid it.

Granted... However today it’s more than a risk. It’s her stated goal/ideal. Either change the way she thinks, or change the way you think or feel on the role sex plays in your relationship with her. How often have you refused or declined sex with her? Maybe do a mini training camp on seeing how long you can deliberately go without when being in proximity. This might not work if she’s never one to initiate, but it could give you some idea of what could happen down the road. Plus it might be an interesting discussion point woven into the greater topic.

 

[Matcha Matcha Man]

Unfortunately, I can't offer advice on successfully navigating a similar situation. Quite the opposite. My partner of 12 years and I broke up after he embarked on a disastrous new relationship where he was so caught up in NRE that he didn't care how badly he was treating me and how crazy his new partner was. His new relationship crashed and burned in little more than 6 months, but so much damage had been done to our relationship that it couldn't be repaired. (We had been poly for all 12 years, so this was a new and weird situation).

I’m sorry to hear that happened to you.

It’s not exactly encouraging but it’s a valuable perspective so thank you for sharing your story.

For your situation: it sounds like your partner loves you and has been honest with you that her sexual interest in you has waned.

I think you will need to find another partner of your own in order to have the fulfilling sexual and romantic relationship that you want.
I think if you have your own other partner, you will actually feel less distressed about the limited sexual connection in your live-in relationship. Maybe your NRE for YOUR new partner may spill over to benefit your live-in partner! Maybe it will allow you to develop the strong romance-with-very-little sex that your live-in partner seems to want with you.

I think that my finding another partner will help take some of the stress off both of us. My concern is that if my sexual connection with my partner has atrophied my finding another partner may move us farther apart emotionally in general, as for me the sexual part of a romantic relationship is an essential part.

Excluding an extreme situation where one or the other of us becomes ill and sex is not possible I think it is something that should be prioritized.

 

[Matcha Matcha Man]

You’re saying after the NRE phase burns off, this sexual decoupling happens when it’s someone she wants to have an intimate emotional connection to. Is that correct?

I don’t think it’s cause and effect, though I see what you’re getting at. I’m taking it at face value where she says the issue is that once the NRE burns out she loses interest in sex whether an intimate emotional connection develops or not.

And at the same time, views/enjoys sex with people/friends on a more recreational level with no strings attached.
Hypothetically, would any of these friends/partners/sex buddies be prohibited sex in this new relationship phase? Is she/would she give the warning to these people, as well?

Possibly, though I doubt she’d feel obligated to explain it to them.

I was thinking more in terms of your response and damage a sexless romantic relationship could when both sides are outsourcing.

Right, I’m concerned that she’ll kind of forget about me when she gets a new partner, but I’m also worried that if I find someone else and I still feel like she’s not showing up for us I’ll end up putting more energy into the new situation than I would consider ideal, and we’d drift farther apart.

Oh, it sounds super nuanced. Sex means something, is special and coveted, and she doesn’t want to share or have that energy divided or poached upon in the beginning. And as NRE/novelty wears off, then it’s ok to sport fuck or hook up with you or whoever. Feel good calorie burn.


Did she state why the change in attitude?

We only recently (in the last couple years) opened up to having solo dates - with the exception of one longstanding long distance FWB situation she has- and she has been feeling like it’s an experiment. And she says what she is learning is that she is feeling like having an ongoing “just sex” situation is starting to feel like a waste of time.

I’m curious. Do you think she was surprised that you wouldn’t understand that was her wish or need, or that she was surprised by you not thinking the same way as her?

I’m not sure if surprised is the right word. But I think she’s disappointed that I’m not willing to adopt her attitude about this. In all our time together this is the first time I’ve said no to her, or at least it’s the first time I’ve expressed that something is a deal breaker for me.

This might be too personal/invasive, but how often are you having sex with her, and how often is she having sex with this new guy and her other friends? Entering into a polyamorous relationship is partly entering into the mediation/negotiation business. I'd hope/think some creative solutions could be negotiated. 6 months to a yr or longer, resentment can turn into a real bitch. I'd love to know laying next to a spouse or nesting partner 8 months after she arrives back from a date or sleepover?

We’re coming off a long period of very infrequent sex after the birth of our child. I think one year we only had sex twice. In the last couple of years we have been making a more concerted effort to have sex where the other person is a part of it, (and more sex in general but without each other) so in group situations mostly. So maybe once a month, but not necessarily. More recently, since the specific discussion about her losing interest long term we have decided to have a schedule, which I realize is mostly for my benefit. So theoretically we are having two dates per month, which may or may not lead to sex. So far they have, but I worry she’s mostly just doing it for me and she could happily do without.
In terms of desired frequency for sex with each other there is a significant mismatch.

I realize this is a problem independent of the polyamory issue. I’m hoping for insight on how to best navigate what I see as inevitable additional challenges when we add other partners.

Granted... However today it’s more than a risk. It’s her stated goal/ideal. Either change the way she thinks, or change the way you think or feel on the role sex plays in your relationship with her. How often have you refused or declined sex with her?

I’m not sure she would notice. Or she might appreciate the lack of pressure. In any case she never initiates sex spontaneously. She much prefers to have a plan. My attempting to initiate sex spontaneously is not welcomed.

Maybe do a mini training camp on seeing how long you can deliberately go without when being in proximity. This might not work if she’s never one to initiate, but it could give you some idea of what could happen down the road. Plus it might be an interesting discussion point woven into the greater topic.

See above.

Again. Thanks for taking the time to ask thoughtful questions.

 

[Tinwen]

To me it seems there is some room for compromise. She's already making an effort to meet you sexually, even if it's on a schedule and not perfectly what you imagine, and if she accepts that sexless is a dealbreaker for you, she'll have to continue her effort during her NRE phase. Meanwhile you are worried that if you're in NRE yourself, you may not be compelled to invest in the kind of emotional connection she mainly desires. I imagine that's very much a deal breaker for her, so it seems to me you will have to reciprocate her effort by your own focused effort in that area.

It's already good if you can name that this is what is happening.

It's good that you do have scheduled date evenings, keep that up.

 

[Ariakas]

Where to start, honestly a lot of assumptions and prescriptions in this thread about casual sex and swinging. So I might just leave that alone. Depending on the region modern sex clubs are anything but hetero-normative. I can't speak to other regions, so just trying to add clarity that not all swinger clubs and sex clubs are created equal.

Yeah, it fits in with her idea that the initial phase of a relationship is the time when the sexual energy and connection is highest (which is pretty much a given) and that after some time it completely goes away (which I think is far from universal). It’s after that passes that the decoupling happens, when it’s with someone she wants to have an intimate emotional connection to. But she also decouples love and sex in the sense that she can have a friend who she enjoys having sex with, but there is no desire for a more significant emotional connection.

As someone who requires sex to even begin thinking about love, I can empathize with your partner. Sex and love are ABSOLUTELY intertwined for me, especially in the beginning. If I am not having sex, we are friends (understanding there are periods of time, stress busyness that may impact that). Period. I dont have some elevated higher level of being that appreciates partners without sex. Longer term partners the sex may become less, but those become foundational.

I can also decouple the act of sex from love. So I can have sex without love (its fun) I have had casual sex partners far more frequently than partners I would eventually love. Right now probably close to a 3 to 1 ration of sex to love folks. If it wasn't for the risk of STD's and my absolute hatred of condoms, I would be a much bigger slut. Especially since I am fixed and I have close to 0 risk of pregnancy.

I don’t think it’s cause and effect, though I see what you’re getting at. I’m taking it at face value where she says the issue is that once the NRE burns out she loses interest in sex whether an intimate emotional connection develops or not.

Is she ADHD? or maybe even audhd. I have had some partners that show signs of this kind of drop post infatuation and then move onto the new and shiny. They have to work hard to remember the other partner is still shiny. It does change the structure, things like foreplay, tactically timing interactions become important. I have a strong flirt and foreplay game so I can usually get interest for a short time and we maintain some schedule to help.

Right, I’m concerned that she’ll kind of forget about me when she gets a new partner, but I’m also worried that if I find someone else and I still feel like she’s not showing up for us I’ll end up putting more energy into the new situation than I would consider ideal, and we’d drift farther apart.

Relationships always take work. 25 years with my wife, 18 years married. 4 years with my girlfriend and before that had an 11 year relationship. Lots of ups and downs but we always had to work to give focus back to the other people. I was always emotionally aware of my other connections and made and gave time. Sexual attraction moves around a bit, but that core connection never changed (or I should say, when it did change we broke up). My gf is fairly severely AUDHD and has some symptoms that become difficult to deal with and with some other things going on, has almost no sex drive now. If you love someone you kind of just deal with it, and help them through it. She is hyper aware of the new and shiny and works extremely hard to battle against it.

So maybe once a month, but not necessarily. More recently, since the specific discussion about her losing interest long term we have decided to have a schedule, which I realize is mostly for my benefit. So theoretically we are having two dates per month, which may or may not lead to sex. So far they have, but I worry she’s mostly just doing it for me and she could happily do without.
In terms of desired frequency for sex with each other there is a significant mismatch.

Take this as a positive. You talked about it, she is interested in moving the needle and being with you. This is an extremely positive sign.

I realize this is a problem independent of the polyamory issue. I’m hoping for insight on how to best navigate what I see as inevitable additional challenges when we add other partners.

I’m not sure she would notice. Or she might appreciate the lack of pressure. In any case she never initiates sex spontaneously. She much prefers to have a plan. My attempting to initiate sex spontaneously is not welcomed.

Ok, so when you first meet someone, you talk dirty, text sexy memes, maybe even send nudes or at the very least porn gifs. You create anticipation, you both create desire by reminding them you are there and thinking of them. During those dates, you touch, look into the eyes of the person, talk and listen, share and create a mutual conversation that is light hearted and not intense. Maybe you can turn the crank a bit and get super flirty, slip a hand where it shouldn't, kiss deeply when everyone is watching. In my case as a top, I take control and put the person where I want them so I have full access. Its rarely spontaneous it just seems like less work because it is new. You rarely just see someone on a bus and take them home to fuck.

In some cases there are remote toys, there are plugs, anything to remind that person that I am around and want them. Which creates their want for me. Maybe when you get home you offer a nice massage, leaving toys in and really tease the hell out of them.

In long term relationships we have done it all... I will use my GF's example of how her husband tells her he is in the mood now, he walks up to her desk and slaps his dick on the table. Guess how often that works. What I just described above, I also have to do for my long term partners. And in turn they have to do it for me.

Both of my current folks have different things that stroke their motor. Both have things that are immediate turn offs. Neither just see me and hop on my dick anymore.

Sex is rarely spontaneous especially with kids. Especially with kids, natural born cock blockers.

You have scheduled time, sounds like you have step 1, you need to figure out step 2.

 

[Matcha Matcha Man]

As someone who requires sex to even begin thinking about love, I can empathize with your partner. Sex and love are ABSOLUTELY intertwined for me, especially in the beginning. If I am not having sex, we are friends (understanding there are periods of time, stress busyness that may impact that). Period. I dont have some elevated higher level of being that appreciates partners without sex. Longer-term partners, the sex may become less, but those become foundational.

Yes, this is my position. It’s my partner who decouples the two things. Thanks for the affirmation.

I can also decouple the act of sex from love. So I can have sex without love. It's fun. I have had casual sex partners far more frequently than partners I would eventually love, right now, probably close to a 3 to 1 ration of sex to love folks. If it wasn't for the risk of STDs and my absolute hatred of condoms, I would be a much bigger slut, especially since I am fixed and I have close to 0 risk of pregnancy.

Right, there is nuance here. I’m fine with having “just sex” partners, so in that sense I can also decouple sex and love. And I have friends who I love in a non-romantic way. What I’m not ok with is having my long-term (primary?) partner being a love without sex relationship, absent some dire external factor like disease or disability.

That being said I think “just sex” relationships are bound to wind down more quickly for me. And I think my partner is starting to feel the same way about her other situations, which is kind of why the poly conversation came up in the first place.

Is she ADHD, or maybe even audhd? I have had some partners that show signs of this kind of drop post infatuation and then move onto the new and shiny. They have to work hard to remember the other partner is still shiny. It does change the structure. Things like foreplay, tactically timing interactions become important.

She’s definitely not neurodivergent in that way. But other than that, your points here are pretty descriptive. She definitely isn’t into spontaneity.

Take this as a positive. You talked about it. She is interested in moving the needle and being with you. This is an extremely positive sign.

I do. However, the challenge that remains is that she seems genuinely mystified as to how someone can maintain a sexual interest in a partner long-term. So she’s definitely willing to put in the work (as am I), but if the end goal is a state that she can’t relate to, then at best, there will be a bit of a “maintenance sex” feeling to it, which would not be a happy outcome for either of us.

Realizing this, she is trying to work on her underlying assumptions.

As I’ve said previously here, I know this is not a poly issue, per se. But as others have pointed out, poly is likely to cause more rather than less stress in this regard.

Ok, so when you first meet someone, you talk dirty, text sexy memes, maybe even send nudes, or at the very least, porn gifs. You create anticipation, you both create desire by reminding them you are there and thinking of them. During those dates, you touch, look into the eyes of the person, talk and listen, share and create a mutual conversation that is lighthearted and not intense. Maybe you can turn the crank a bit and get super flirty, slip a hand where it shouldn't go, kiss deeply when everyone is watching. In my case, as a top, I take control, and put the person where I want them so I have full access. It's rarely spontaneous. It just seems like less work because it is new. You rarely just see someone on a bus and take them home to fuck.

In our case, she has expressed a desire for there to be seduction. I’m having a little cognitive dissonance around both scheduling sex and being seductive. I think, for me, some element of uncertainty or spontaneity needs to be present in order for seduction to happen. I suppose this is an area where I need to become more creative.

 

[Magdlyn]

I dunno, MMM. It seems to me the message is loud and clear that she is not interested in sex with a long-term partner. Point blank period. She is telling and showing you this over and over in many different ways.

Having hot(ter) sex with new people is common. Many people are like this. However, your wife seems to take it to an extreme. It's just how she's built. Telling you you need to be more seductive or whatever... eh. Either she's hot for you, or she isn't. Hate to break it to you, but let's consider ripping off the band-aid. She is not the right partner for you. You need to find a partner whose sexual interest in partners doesn't completely die after NRE wears off.

Great sex with a long-term partner is not an impossible dream. I've been with my bf for 4.5 years and we are still super hot for each other.