shit just got real

[DrDrosselbart]

hi, I'm DrDrosselbart (you may call me DrD or Bart for short or whatever you like), 27yo, university student from Germany. I first came into contact with the concept of polyamory about 3 years ago via a university seminar about philosophical views of love concepts throughout history. from that time on, my gf and I have been very open-minded toward the concept, but up until now hadn't found or even been looking for anyone to turn our open two-person-relationship into a polyamorous one. I had already posted the following in the poly relationships corner, but found it was misplaced, so here we go again:

my gf (let's call her T) recently started dating someone with whom she feels a strong connection (let's call her A) and that's totally fine with me. I'm very happy that the two of them found each other as they both tend to be quite insecure and shy, and have made quite a lot of similar experiences in their lives, so now they can support one another. I've only met A once, yesterday, for a couple of hours and I like her, which is not surprising to me as (like I said) she and T are quite similar on a personal level - even when A speaks, she sounds like T, melodically.

my problem is the following: although I am truly happy for the two of them, I can't help but feel left out and a little jealous of A. I'm aware that their relationship is just starting out and that it's only understandable to be excited about your new partner and wanting to spend as much time as possible with them, but that's just the problem. I miss T. it's not like I don't see her anymore or anything, I just miss being intimate with her on a psychological and on a physical level. in her mind, she's always with A - I know that because she told me and also because she keeps talking about A. she also isn't interested in having sex with me at the moment, because well, she can't stop thinking about A^^. and I understand that, I really do. and I'm trying my best to be patient and supportive because I know deep down, that it is the right thing to do. but in my gut, I've been having what feels like a rock for a couple of days, and it just keeps growing. T told me that this new relationship doesn't change her feelings for me and I believe her because I know she loves me and the last thing she wants is to hurt me in some way. and I love her, too, and want her to be as happy as possible.

I know that we've been kind of growing apart, which is positive in that regard that she's becoming more and more independent from me. but on the downside, we've grown apart (, duh xD). and sex was one of the few things we did together exclusively, as the both of us alone, and while having sex, I always felt connected, in sync with her, so to speak, and not only on a physical level. it used to be that she wanted sex more often than I did and now she doesn't want it at all, at least not with me. she hasn't had sex with A, yet as A is still a virgin and they both are very insecure and shy and don't want to hurt one another. but that doesn't matter to me. I just wish the jealousy would subside.

I've just shared these concerns with T and she too thinks that the whole thing is quite complicated as it will be an entirely new challenge for the three of us. but both T and I want to try our best to make it work because we love each other.

looking forward to a good time, here!

 

[FallenAngelina]

Bart, do you want feedback and discussion or do you just want to leave information about yourself? Either is fine, but I noticed that you're asking to delete your thread in the Discussion section, which is where we would offer ideas to you. Intros are more for you to post about yourself and often that is that.

 

[DrDrosselbart]

I noticed that you're asking to delete your thread in the Discussion section, which is where we would offer ideas to you. Intros are more for you to post about yourself and often that is that.

Thanks for the heads-up!

Yeah... I guess the post wouldn't have been that much misplaced. I dunno. I wasn't sure if it really fit in there. I think I'll just start reading some of the posts in the poly relationships corner to get a little impression of how the original posts are written and then maybe open up a new thread.

 

[Magdlyn]

Yes, I agree with Karen that this belongs in the Relationships section. We don't delete posts here, except in rare cases where stalking is involved. You can click on the ! in the red triangle at the top of your original post of this thread and NYCindie can move it to where it belongs.

I will go ahead and respond to your request for advice. First of all, we have a policy that people use nicknames instead of initial for people's SOs, it's much easier to read, follow and respond that way. You'll get more feedback.

I think your gf is handling this all wrong. You should read at the morethantwo website for help. Also, get a copy of Opening Up for information. She is carried away by her new relationship energy (NRE) and neglecting you! This is not a good way to be poly.

She sounds like a sweet and sensitive person and I am sure she doesn't mean to be hurting you. But she shouldn't be neglecting your sexual needs or romantic dating needs. People new to poly often do this, and it's a sure way to kill a former relationship. Of course you're jealous or envious. She also shouldn't be gushing to you constantly about how great her (idealized) new interest is. For those feelings, she should tell her friends, or journal.

My long term partner and I can gush about our new interests to each other since we have no jealousy, only compersion (vicarious pleasure) in each others' pleasure. But that is a skill that is built over time.

You should share with her how you feel neglected and request she come back to you sexually and romantically. Don't compare yourself to her new person, just state your needs clearly. She needs to be brought back to earth somehow, or risk losing you. If she can't, or won't, meet your needs, it's up to you to decide if you're willing to wait, or feel you must walk.

 

[DrDrosselbart]

I will go ahead and respond to your request for advice. First of all, we have a policy that people use nicknames instead of initial for people's SOs, it's much easier to read, follow and respond that way. You'll get more feedback.

Thanks for the advice, I'll change them right away! [Edit: I forgot you couldn't edit posts after a while anymore. I'll start with nicknames in the future.]

She is carried away by her new relationship energy (NRE) and neglecting you! This is not a good way to be poly.

She sounds like a sweet and sensitive person and I am sure she doesn't mean to be hurting you. But she shouldn't be neglecting your sexual needs or romantic dating needs. People new to poly often do this, and it's a sure way to kill a former relationship. Of course you're jealous or envious. She also shouldn't be gushing to you constantly about how great her (idealized) new interest is. For those feelings, she should tell her friends, or journal.

My long term partner and I can gush about our new interests to each other since we have no jealousy, only compersion (vicarious pleasure) in each others' pleasure. But that is a skill that is built over time. You should share with her how you feel neglected and request she come back to you sexually and romantically.

Yeah, I really wanna learn compersion. And I truly am happy for her. It's just this weird feeling in my stomach. It's definitely not a rock anymore. After I had registered on this site and written my intro, we had a good talk about some of the things you adressed as well. She shared my impression of us not having spent a lot of time just the two of us recently, and felt sorry, promising to be more attentive. We also talked about my sexual needs and have had sex again, which was really nice for the both of us. I'm conflicted about asking her to stop gushing about her new love interest, because she doesn't keep a journal or have very many friends she sees to on a regular basis - I'm pretty much her boyfriend and her best friend, which I'm quite happy with. We share everything with one another and can talk about anything. Although I think I will ask her to tune it down in case the gushing becomes too much for me.

Don't compare yourself to her new person, just state your needs clearly. She needs to be brought back to earth somehow, or risk losing you. If she can't, or won't, meet your needs, it's up to you to decide if you're willing to wait, or feel you must walk.

I try to never compare myself with others because everybody's different and no one will ever be anybody but their (slowly) evolving selves. I definitely am willing to wait as we've been through a lot together. She's of course very happy and excited about this new relationship but she told me that she loves me just as much as before and I, too, still love her just as much. We'll see what happens.

Thank you for sharing your experiences and advice with me. I honestly never thought this poly thing would prove to be this tough on me^^

 

[Arius]

Regarding NRE, know that it will pass. Your partner is wrapped up in someone else right now, but you are her rock, and when she inevitably comes back down to earth, she's going to want you to still be there.

She shared my impression of us not having spent a lot of time just the two of us recently, and felt sorry, promising to be more attentive.


This is great, but "more attentive" is pretty vague and hard to measure. A more concrete goal might be something like having a datenight every week where you really focus on your relationship.




I'm conflicted about asking her to stop gushing about her new love interest, because she doesn't keep a journal or have very many friends she sees to on a regular basis - I'm pretty much her boyfriend and her best friend, which I'm quite happy with. We share everything with one another and can talk about anything. Although I think I will ask her to tune it down in case the gushing becomes too much for me.

YOUR NEEDS MATTER! They are what keep you happy and functioning in this relationship. I have very strict rules about, for example, disclosure. I want to know what metaphorical "base" my partner got to sexually. That is all. No details. That is what I need right now to feel okay about her sleeping with other people. If she wants to give somebody details, it's going to be a journal or another friend. If she doesn't have one of those two things, then she'll have to create them for herself. It isn't up to me to manage her needs as well as mine. That just makes things messy and can lead to problems.

 

[GalaGirl]

It's ok to feel weird. The "new normal" is not here yet and the "old normal" is out the window. Even wanted changes take some getting used to and some transition time.

I'm conflicted about asking her to stop gushing about her new love interest, because she doesn't keep a journal or have very many friends she sees to on a regular basis - I'm pretty much her boyfriend and her best friend, which I'm quite happy with. We share everything with one another and can talk about anything. Although I think I will ask her to tune it down in case the gushing becomes too much for me.

So ask her to tone it down.

Maybe start a transition journal. She can gush all she wants any time. Even daily. And she can bring it for you to read only and discuss only on Fridays so you aren't getting overloaded daily.

And ask her to spend time with you -- specifics. Not vague. Like a movie and dinner date each Saturday. Whatever you like.

Ask her to read poly hell with you so you can plan and avoid pitfalls. Look at the opening up sheets. Educate yourselves.

It's ok to set some boundaries for yourself as you navigate this transition. Make it so you can BOTH get through it well prepared and with eyes open.

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hi DrD,

Thank you for sharing your story, it initiated a valuable thread that will help many people in similar situations. Hopefully it's helped you too.

I agree with the idea that you and T (your girlfriend) should build specific routines into your lives to preserve (and improve) your closeness with each other. So, for example, weekly dates would probably be a good idea. It would be good if you had sexual contact on a fairly regular basis; I know it can't sound very romantic to put it like that, but there it is. Frequent communication is important; for example once-a-week sit-downs would probably be a good idea.

Those are a couple of basic things that came to my mind. If (gods forbid) things get pretty bad between you and T, try to start seeing a counselor (preferably a poly-friendly counselor). To summarize, I suggest being proactive about nurturing your relationship. Doing so will probably help to keep that jealousy under control.

Some additional resources for dealing with jealousy:

Jealousy, Envy, Insecurity, etc.
How do you achieve compersion?

Jealousy and Insecurity
The Theory of Jealousy Management
The Practice of Jealousy Management

Jealousy and the Poly Family
Kathy Labriola: Unmasking the Green-Eyed Monster
Kathy Labriola: "First Aid" for Jealousy
Brené Brown: the Power of Vulnerability

And a book, "The Jealousy Workbook: exercises and insights for managing open relationships," by Kathy Labriola.

Hopefully that helps.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[DrDrosselbart]

first of all, thank you all for responding and sharing your knowledge with me! i appreciate it very much.

some time has passed since i've created this thread and quite a lot has happened since then in my relationship with my gf (let's refer to her as Bebe) and in her relationship with Kouhai (this nickname refers to their relationship: Bebe is 25 and Kouhai is 19 yo. they are very much alike or to be more exact, Kouhai has been and still is going through many of the same experiences that Bebe has already been through; Kohai shares many character traits with the past Bebe. Bebe used to be quiet and shy around new people and tended to be mistaken for being snobbish or arrogant, while she was actually nervous and uncomfortable. she was quite introvert and often felt inadequate, not knowing what to do with her life and at the same time trying to meet her parents' expectations after school. this is the exact situation that Kouhai is in, now.

they also share several hobbies and interests, like drawing, cosplay and anime.

she used to get depressions on a more or less regular basis and had no one who truly understood what that was like. at those times, i was there for her, just listening to her, making her feel safe and appreciated and kind of instinctively knowing what to do while having no idea at all if it was the right thing to do or not, it just felt right. Kouhai on the other hand used to have panic attacks on a regular basis and nobody who understood what she was going through at those times. and now, Bebe is for Kouhai what i used to be for Bebe: the rock that you, Arius, are talking about,

Regarding NRE, know that it will pass. Your partner is wrapped up in someone else right now, but you are her rock, and when she inevitably comes back down to earth, she's going to want you to still be there.

a safe harbor, a ocean of calm, a float that carries her, no matter what. and as Bebe has been through so many of the same experiences, she can help her much better than i could help Bebe before, because she knows exactly what Kouhai is going through (that is also why i chose the nickname "Kouhai" for her - it describes their relationship dynamic: Bebe is the older one, the one who has already been through all those struggles and issues, she is the teacher, the Senpai, while Kouhai means the pupil, the student, the younger, more inexperienced one in the relationship). Bebe and i have talked a lot about my problems adjusting to this new relatonship and what you described, Aries, is what Bebe assured me of: that she feels safe with me, knowing we can deal with pretty much anything, since we've already been through so much.

[...]"more attentive" is pretty vague and hard to measure. A more concrete goal might be something like having a datenight every week where you really focus on your relationship.

ask her to spend time with you -- specifics. Not vague. Like a movie and dinner date each Saturday. Whatever you like.

you're right, that is too vague. and we've just talked about spending more time together, just us two, like a date, yeah. the thing is, we never really dated, we met and just got together, kinda. we did do things together, like gaming, watching movies and series together, making things, attending university seminars together as we shared one field of studies, philosophy that is. but recently, our only couple activity has been watching series and talking about them. we have talked about this and Bebe wants to do things with me exclusively as well, we maybe just need to find something new that interests us both. we are currently planning on going to an art exhibit next week, either the two of us, or the three of us, including Kouhai.

YOUR NEEDS MATTER! They are what keep you happy and functioning in this relationship. I have very strict rules about, for example, disclosure. I want to know what metaphorical "base" my partner got to sexually. That is all. No details. That is what I need right now to feel okay about her sleeping with other people.

Kouhai spent Wednesday night at our place and Bebe and her had sex. Bebe told me and i was surprised at my own feelings that moment: i had expected to feel jealous and to feel this hole in my stomach i've described earlier. but i just felt a little uncomfortable while being happy for the two of them because Bebe told me how difficult it was for Kouhai to explore her own sexuality - i won't go into any more detail. the important thing here is that this sinking, hollow feeling i had been experiencing has almost completely vanished, which i sure am glad about. i hated to feel like that. also me feeling jealous has become much less intense and much less often.

If she wants to give somebody details, it's going to be a journal or another friend. If she doesn't have one of those two things, then she'll have to create them for herself. It isn't up to me to manage her needs as well as mine. That just makes things messy and can lead to problems.

Bebe did give me a few details, which also wasn't as painful as i had thought it would be. she also talked about it on a forum, so that's good, right? what do you mean by the last part, that it "can lead to problems"?

Maybe start a transition journal. She can gush all she wants any time. Even daily. And she can bring it for you to read only and discuss only on Fridays so you aren't getting overloaded daily.

this sounds like an interesting idea, i'll bring it up to her.

Ask her to read poly hell with you so you can plan and avoid pitfalls.

we just read "are you in poly hell" and found it helpful in better understanding our feelings. a lot of times i found myself thinking: "yes! that's exactly how i feel, although i wouldn't have been able to express it that precisely.", so thank you for that
i have just read "Making Peace with Jealousy in Polyamorous Relationships". it described many underlying problems i was already aware of - i'm familiar with the nonviolent communication concepts of Rosenberg and i often access and analyze my feelings, trying to find out what causes them. but like "are you in poly hell", it did manage to point out certain particularities to me, which i wouldn't have known how to verbalize or which i hadn't even noticed before. thank you, again!

Look at the opening up sheets. Educate yourselves.

i'll definitely check this out, as well thanks for all the literature!

Hi DrD,

Thank you for sharing your story, it initiated a valuable thread that will help many people in similar situations. Hopefully it's helped you too.

it did help me a lot just to write down how i feel, to let it all out and at the same time, take it all in, as in thinking about it while i re-read it and being able to analyze my feelings and the whole situation one step at a time.

I agree with the idea that you and T (your girlfriend) should build specific routines into your lives to preserve (and improve) your closeness with each other. So, for example, weekly dates would probably be a good idea. It would be good if you had sexual contact on a fairly regular basis; I know it can't sound very romantic to put it like that, but there it is. Frequent communication is important; for example once-a-week sit-downs would probably be a good idea.

yes, Bebe and i have been talking about how our routines haven't been congruent lately and i've told her that i need more intimacy besides sexual contact. we have been having more intercourse recently and i like that. i think it's because it makes me happy knowing i can make her feel good. before, she needed lots of emotional support and encouragement and i really enjoyed doing that for her and i enjoyed being needed. now, as Bebe has become more and more independent emotionally, i guess i just felt like she didn't really "need" me anymore. we do talk a lot, as we spend most of our time next to one another, only that we usually don't do things together because of our mostly different interests.

I suggest being proactive about nurturing your relationship. Doing so will probably help to keep that jealousy under control.

we're working on it! we also don't want our relationship just to fall apart, especially after all the things we've been through together. we both love each other and want everything to work out.
concerning my jealousy: when Kouhai was at our place Wednesday through Thursday, we both talked about this relationship constellation and our own fears and hopes and insecurities. she told me that it was hard for her, as well, that she felt like an intruder and somehow insignificant at the same time, as if she had to compete with me for Bebe's affection and love and having nothing compared to Bebe's and my five year relationship, like being pit against an insurmountable foe. i was deeply moved by this and i think i could understand a little what Bebe feels for her. i felt like she was so insecure, that she didn't have very much self-esteem, like she felt that she only made things complicated, that she just meant trouble. i felt that with her and it just made me like her and want to assure her that i want her to be happy, too, that she deserves to be happy. maybe i felt for her like i did for Bebe when she was insecure about herself and uncertain about this whole confusing thing we call life. i just wanted to be there and to make both of them feel safe and accepted as they are, Bebe before, and Kouhai just recently.

 

[DrDrosselbart]

wow, this became longer than i had originally planned, but it feels really good having written it. it was a good decision to come here. i'm sooooooo thankful for all of your support and help! thank you very much. i can't say it enough^^

i still have so many questions. like, do any of you have/have any of you had much contact with your partners' partners? what does it feel like? do you do things together?

 

[kdt26417]

I am in a closed (MFM) V and we all three live together. So I see and interact with the other guy fairly often. It doesn't seem like a big deal, just two guys interacting in a friendly way. We often watch movies and TV shows together.

 

[Magdlyn]

wow, this became longer than i had originally planned, but it feels really good having written it. it was a good decision to come here. i'm sooooooo thankful for all of your support and help! thank you very much. i can't say it enough^^

i still have so many questions. like, do any of you have/have any of you had much contact with your partners' partners? what does it feel like? do you do things together?

Hey Bart, from what you said it sounds like you enjoyed mentoring Bebe a lot. You helped her grow and become more mature, confident and self reliant. Now that she's healthier and just less of a kid and more adult, it seems you felt less important and unsure of your role.

Some Doms enjoy mentoring those that are "weak," repressed, insecure, damaged by their families or previous partners. Others are not Doms, but have White Knight syndrome. You might have a touch of that. Or you might just be very nurturing and empathetic.

Now it seems you feel drawn to Kohai, to help her in the way you helped Bebe. Is there a chance you're heading into triad territory, instead of viewing Kohai as Bebe's lover (and perhaps her "project")?

Right now, Kohai is your metamour. Poly people vary greatly in how much contact or relationship they have with their partner's OSO, from gritting their teeth with dislike (or enduring outright hostility), to never meeting them due to distance or preference.

(I haven't met my gf's Master, as he is very introverted, but I met her last Dom as he was extremely outgoing. My bfs come to the house I share with my gf and she has a habit of becoming friends with them.)

Other poly people are open to being friendly acquaintances with metas, or become friends, good friends, friends with benefits, or even ultimately, a lover and full partner (in a triad situation). It all depends on the parties involved. There is no "right" way. Being enemies isn't an ideal of course, but any of the other configurations work well for different people.