Yeah, I suggest Rider have a chat with anyone he is involved with or may get involved with where he is explicit about the couple privilege he wants in his relationship with you and that he makes sure everyone else knows that he wants this. Not so much a heads up before each visit, but so they know that this is how it will always be and he is aware of the restrictions it might put on other relationships but it is what he wants.
I had thought he was doing this (in part because I certainly do—I make it very clear to everyone that Rider is my "default person" right at the outset), but in conversation last night, it turns out that he hadn't been. He said, "Well, she certainly KNOWS even if I haven't said it explicitly!" and I countered with, "Well, maybe she doesn't, if she is making these assumptions." And he countered with, "Well, she knows that we are moving to Opposite Coast together, and she knows that if it comes down to a couple thing, it's going to be me and you." But I still don't know if that gets the full picture across. And I don't know if he wants to bother with that with her, since there's less than six months before we leave and it may be easier to just do occasion-by-occasion prep. But he did say that he'd make it clear to others from the outset.
What I didn't comprehend was that it was my partner who agreed to certain things with my metamour, even requested other things like no sleepovers and then found it difficult to be honest about that to me (and others) so made out it was just bad luck or when that couldn't work, a needy metamour.
That sucks about the dishonesty and also about the lack of sleepovers. Our stuff is not nearly so restrictive. For most of our relationship, it was totally "no rules" other than safe sex and tell each other everything. With some time and experience, we've implemented some "guidelines": clean up area/person to best of ability after someone visits; don't fire up something new when existing relationship(s) are in a shaky place (redirect that energy toward healing or amicably ending the relationships first); and it's probably a bad idea to hook up with someone at an event your partner had to drop out of and was bummed about. Other than that, we can each do whatever we want, hypothetically, as time restrictions allow. Sometimes we have to discuss things to death to get to a comfort place, but I don't think that either of us would tell the other not to do a particular thing, hierarchy or not.
When she started being honest about it, people who didn't suit her restrictions just didn't bother, and she had many more happier and mutually enjoyable secondary relationships.
This makes all the sense in the world and, I think, is our ultimate goal. I know that, for me, I really would rather not get involved with people who wouldn't be able to accept that Rider is my center. So far, I've been really lucky in that all three of the romantic connections (more than FWB) I've made over the course of being with him have totally understood that and totally opted in, with good humor and being totally laid back about it. I've not heard a single gripe out of any of them, and sometimes they even ENCOURAGE me to take time away from them to focus on Rider, if they see I'm struggling with something on that end. Or maybe it has been less luck and more that I've been so explicit from the get-go.
I agree that rider needs to be communicating this and that it's his desire otherwise you look like the bad guy. I had some experience in this where people view me as this controlling wife with the double standard but the fact is Nate doesn't want a girlfriend, he doesnt want the responsibility of dealing with someone else's emotions or being obligated to spend time with anyone else. He made me out to be the bad guy because he didn't want to look like some kind of user instead of communicating that fwb is the most he's willing to offer
I don't THINK anyone has viewed me as controlling, at least not so far. If Kelly has, she hasn't let on to me or to Rider. I do think that maybe he hasn't made it totally clear to her that (as he has told me) even if I didn't exist, his relationship with her would not be more than the FWB+ that it currently is. She is not made of "primary stuff" for him. I don't know how one says that tactfully though. Maybe "I really like what we have as it is, and even under different circumstances, it'd still be at about this level"?
I think it is really important that these sorts of things are communicated clearly up front. And that Rider chooses FWBs wisely.
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Really important to be clear about all of that up front and to make sure that FWBs are happy, confident, independent people with good support networks of their own so that they can withstand the difficulties that inevitably come with being shown repeatedly that they are good for a shag but don't make the grade as a girlfriend.
Well, here's the thing. He DOES like her more than in just the "occasional fuck" way. That's where the "+" in "FWB+" comes from. He does have some level of romantic feelings for her, in that he has fun hanging out with her, thinks they have excellent sex, and misses her when she's not around. He gets sad at the thought that it will end when we move. So it's not just callous wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am hooking up.
But she's not happy, and she's not confident (serious self-image issues), and she doesn't have a local support network. That much is all for sure. I think all of those reasons are why she was reduced to "whining" (her words) to get her way that night.
And I do think that the fact that there is a level of genuine caring-for between them makes things complicated. This is not the first time that Rider has been in a "FWB" situation with a much-younger woman who he genuinely cared about but could not see himself ever making a girlfriend. The first one ended very badly, because she fell in love with him and it slowly drove her crazy (granted, she was kind of crazy from the outset). Kelly seems to have her head on a lot straighter, but I know that doesn't make her immune to falling in love and being slowly driven crazy by its not being reciprocated. I hope that is not what ends up happening.
The thing about Rider is that he is a deeply squishy, sentimental, caring person who genuinely finds beauty in a lot of people that other people don't see the same beauty in, and then he almost worships them in his treatment of them...even if he is not in love. He opens car doors and makes playlists and shows up with surprises and sends little hearts via IM (even to friends). He loves to cuddle and laugh and build inside jokes with people. He's submissive and kind and reverent of the beauty that he beholds. It's intoxicating to be the recipient of that kind of attention, and it made ME fall like a ton of bricks before I'd even kissed him, when we were just friends. And I am used to a lot of attention and tend to be very picky. I can only imagine what it does to people like Kelly who are lonely, have poor self-image, and are not used to being the focus of such attention.
To me, it seems like playing with fire, to show people all of the wonderful ways you can be, to seduce them with kindness and genuine interest, and then to say "but I'm not in love with you." Like it's a recipe for heartbreak. Not mine, because I know he is madly in love with me. But for those people who don't quite trigger that emotion in him. But I am not going to try to tell him how to be or who to date, you know? I don't WANT to be that controlling person who is always saying how it's a bad idea (even if I truly believe that it is).
Anyway, that is a whole other can of worms than what this thread was originally on.
