So let me start off by saying I'm pretty new to poly I like it it's a good concept and it's something I want to do with my life no matter how this ends up for me I've been married for 10 years to a wonderful woman let's call her Cleopatra we have 2 kids let's call the little one Miss bear and the older one princess recently I figured out that i was gaslighting my wife I was abused as a child for very long time I went into the system came out I thought it was a better person I am a better person overall but I have relationship issues I have insecurities I worry that I'm not good enough even though Cleopatra says I am but nevertheless I didn't trust her I went through her things read things I shouldn't have the problem came when I got caught doing that I lied I lied because I didn't want her to hate me for reading her messages I didn't want her to be mad at me the same way a child would lie I did it to manipulate her to make her think that I wasn't doing that and that's not ok to me the issue isn't even Poly it happened before we were poly I'd always lie to her and she's never done anything to prove otherwise she's always been honest with me I'm working on myself trying to figure out how to fix that about me never known good relationships in my life my mom divorced II Men ands working on the 3rd I don't want to end up like her I want to fix myself I'm trying to stop I haven't lied to the Cleopatra in 6 days about anything right now we're separated we're living in the same house in separate bedrooms and that's hard for me because I still love her I want to hold her and kiss her and make everything better but I can I know it's hard for me to see her go on dates with her boyfriends still we told our older daughter a little bit Miss bear doesn't know anything yet other than we're sleeping in separate rooms but she's young so I just was looking for some advice you know we're still talking we're still doing stuff with the kids that's important and she still cares about me she just has to distance herself and I have to give her that space how do I give her space to give her space so I've never been good at that and I am seeking help from a therapist I'll be starting going on Tuesday so hopefully it'll help therapist is poly friendly so that is good I'm she's dealt with this issue before i hate myself for hurting her its not fair to her and i am amazed that she is even giving me a chance
so i fucked up and i want to fix things
- Thread starter Sowrong
- Start date
MrFarFromRight
Banned
Hi, Sowrong, and welcome to the family!
First: a couple of technical points:
a) It's a shame that you chose that user name. (Aside from the fact that it "sounds" a little like mine
, but I give my reasons here. [Sorry: I can't provide the link, I've scrolled through my list of past comments, but only the most recent 500 are stored. I must have answered the question Why do you use the online name that you use? earlier on.] Recap: it's to do with my far-from-right-wing politics + a poem I once wrote with the lines: "If you're looking for Mr. Right / What the hell are you doing here?!")
In your case, I can't see any reason for your name but self-blame. And you really shouldn't get into that mind-set. If you're going into therapy, you've got to believe that you can change your "wicked ways". If you don't believe that, therapy isn't going to do you much good.
PLEASE believe that you aren't a bad person NOR too weak a person to effect positive changes in your life. Think positive! Learn to love yourself.
b) PLEASE space out your comments more. A block like your OP is hard on the eyes and makes it more difficult to read through > understand.
Now: back to the particulars of your problem. According to your wife (and a recent self-revelation), you've been gaslighting her. Nasty, nasty, I must admit. While scrolling through my past comments, looking for the reason for my name, I came across this, which you might find interesting/helpful.
Your wife has given you a 2nd chance... and a 3rd... and a 4th... and... And she hasn't moved out yet. Is this
1) for financial reasons?
2) because of the children?
3) because she STILL believes that there's some hope for you?
(I hope that it's a combination of 2) and 3).)
You owe it to her, to your children, and - above all - to yourself to prove that her hope is not groundless.
(Incidentally, don't be such a WUSS! Learn that getting a slagging off from your wife for overstepping some boundaries is MUCH preferable to continued lying to her. In doing the latter, you're building a dishonest relationship. Which - in my opinion - is worse than no relationship at all. But - at the same time - work hard on not crossing those boundaries. That would be a sign of respect for her person: also very important in a relationship.)
So, you've got your work cut out for you. Hard work, it will sometimes seem to you. (And - sorry to break this to you - it might take years.) But worth every drop of blood that you sweat. The first step is admitting that you need to make changes. Some (most?) people don't even get that far, so you're one (very important) step ahead of them already.
I hope that your wife will be taking part in the therapy with you. Her POV needs to be heard. The therapist might even point out details in her behaviour that pull this fear trigger in you: "She mustn't find out!!!" That might be something that she needs to work on.
As someone who struggled for years with insecurity issues, I know what a hell they can be.
Believe in your wife. Something tells me that she still loves you. Believe in that love. (And prove that you're worthy of it. But don't push her: she asked for space, and you've got to respect that need of hers. Frankly, after so many years of "fucking up", you need to earn intimacy. Is it worth it to put in all this effort? Then prove it!) Kick arse for your daughters. Believe in yourself!
I wish the 4 of you all the best.
p.s. Do you accept hugs from strange men?
First: a couple of technical points:
a) It's a shame that you chose that user name. (Aside from the fact that it "sounds" a little like mine
, but I give my reasons here. [Sorry: I can't provide the link, I've scrolled through my list of past comments, but only the most recent 500 are stored. I must have answered the question Why do you use the online name that you use? earlier on.] Recap: it's to do with my far-from-right-wing politics + a poem I once wrote with the lines: "If you're looking for Mr. Right / What the hell are you doing here?!")In your case, I can't see any reason for your name but self-blame. And you really shouldn't get into that mind-set. If you're going into therapy, you've got to believe that you can change your "wicked ways"
. If you don't believe that, therapy isn't going to do you much good.PLEASE believe that you aren't a bad person NOR too weak a person to effect positive changes in your life. Think positive! Learn to love yourself.
b) PLEASE space out your comments more. A block like your OP is hard on the eyes and makes it more difficult to read through > understand.
Now: back to the particulars of your problem. According to your wife (and a recent self-revelation), you've been gaslighting her. Nasty, nasty, I must admit. While scrolling through my past comments, looking for the reason for my name, I came across this, which you might find interesting/helpful.
Your wife has given you a 2nd chance... and a 3rd... and a 4th... and... And she hasn't moved out yet. Is this
1) for financial reasons?
2) because of the children?
3) because she STILL believes that there's some hope for you?
(I hope that it's a combination of 2) and 3).)
You owe it to her, to your children, and - above all - to yourself to prove that her hope is not groundless.
(Incidentally, don't be such a WUSS! Learn that getting a slagging off from your wife for overstepping some boundaries is MUCH preferable to continued lying to her. In doing the latter, you're building a dishonest relationship. Which - in my opinion - is worse than no relationship at all. But - at the same time - work hard on not crossing those boundaries. That would be a sign of respect for her person: also very important in a relationship.)
So, you've got your work cut out for you. Hard work, it will sometimes seem to you. (And - sorry to break this to you - it might take years.) But worth every drop of blood that you sweat. The first step is admitting that you need to make changes. Some (most?) people don't even get that far, so you're one (very important) step ahead of them already.
I hope that your wife will be taking part in the therapy with you. Her POV needs to be heard. The therapist might even point out details in her behaviour that pull this fear trigger in you: "She mustn't find out!!!" That might be something that she needs to work on.
As someone who struggled for years with insecurity issues, I know what a hell they can be.
Believe in your wife. Something tells me that she still loves you. Believe in that love. (And prove that you're worthy of it. But don't push her: she asked for space, and you've got to respect that need of hers. Frankly, after so many years of "fucking up", you need to earn intimacy. Is it worth it to put in all this effort? Then prove it!) Kick arse for your daughters. Believe in yourself!
I wish the 4 of you all the best.
p.s. Do you accept hugs from strange men?
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MrFarFromRight
Banned
You lying *******!
(I've edited the name-calling, 'cause I've already been sanctioned for that once on this forum. ) You're in the middle of a good relationship RIGHT NOW! Cleopatra is - on your own admission - "a wonderful woman", and (from what you say) she hasn't kicked you out, only asked for a break.
So... you've got a chance at a GREAT relationship with "a wonderful woman"!
Give it your best shot.
Hi, sowrong, welcome to the board! I took the liberty of editing your post to show proper punctuation. It's OK you wrote a wall of text, sometimes people do that in early posts, since they have held their feelings in so long, and it just comes pouring out. However, many members will skip your thread since it is so hard to read a block of thoughts with no periods, commas or paragraphs. So, do try. You were very clear, despite your lack of punctuation, in your thoughts surrounding your current problems.
Admitting you have a problem is an important first step! I hope therapy helps! Is this your first time seeking it? You've been dealing with your marital relationship using outmoded behaviors that were, I am sure, necessary to protect yourself as a child. Now it's time to grow a little and learn how to be honest and respectful to your wife (and any other partners you have, have had, or will have).
Healthy polyamory requires complete honesty and respect and cooperation. I wish you well as you relearn how to successfully communicate! (((hugs))) Give it all you've got. Try to stop hating yourself. Do not be your own bully. It sounds like you've got a great woman in your life. She is hanging in there to give you a second chance. Live up to her love and patience!
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I am sorry you struggle.
It sounds like you are doing what you can for now -- seeking a therapist, not lying to her in the last 6 days, trying to figure out how to give her space/respect her privacy/not go through her things.
Are you able to ask for what you need? Here is a need inventory.
https://www.cnvc.org/sites/default/files/needs_inventory_0.pdf
To me it sounds like you needed some reassurance, and rather than come right out and say "I feel weird. I need some reassurance so I can stop thinking/feeling ___. Could you be willing to help me by _____?" you went through her things trying to reassure yourself somehow. Something a kid who is afraid might do.
But you know that behavior of rifling through people's things is not respectful. And you were afraid she would be mad and hate you. So you hid the behavior. That doesn't sound like it works for you. You might be reassured, but now you have NEW yucky feelings of guilt/shame/fear.
This is your partner -- sooner or later you have to let the wall down and trust her. You say she's never done anything to deserve this lying behavior... so what are you trying to "protect" or "avoid" by doing it?
Maybe that's something you could talk to the therapist about as well as abuse recovery and marriage skills? Find a better way to behave so you get what you need WITHOUT disrespecting your partner and her things.
Rather than focus on doom stuff form the past about how you never had positive relationships or your mom's relationships? I think you could work on focussing on the present, better articulating what you need, and better asking Cleopatra for help when you need it. I think it's fine to know what you do NOT want, but you also have to know what behaviors you DO want so you can work toward them.
Relationships aren't something people just have -- and have to guard like it is going to be taken away. It is something they build and participate in. Sounds like you want to change how you participate in this one -- by changing some behaviors you realize no longer serve you.
She's still giving it a chance, so all is not lost. If you haven't already, apologize and tell her your intent. Something like...
GL!
Galagirl
It sounds like you are doing what you can for now -- seeking a therapist, not lying to her in the last 6 days, trying to figure out how to give her space/respect her privacy/not go through her things.
Are you able to ask for what you need? Here is a need inventory.
https://www.cnvc.org/sites/default/files/needs_inventory_0.pdf
To me it sounds like you needed some reassurance, and rather than come right out and say "I feel weird. I need some reassurance so I can stop thinking/feeling ___. Could you be willing to help me by _____?" you went through her things trying to reassure yourself somehow. Something a kid who is afraid might do.
But you know that behavior of rifling through people's things is not respectful. And you were afraid she would be mad and hate you. So you hid the behavior. That doesn't sound like it works for you. You might be reassured, but now you have NEW yucky feelings of guilt/shame/fear.
This is your partner -- sooner or later you have to let the wall down and trust her. You say she's never done anything to deserve this lying behavior... so what are you trying to "protect" or "avoid" by doing it?
Maybe that's something you could talk to the therapist about as well as abuse recovery and marriage skills? Find a better way to behave so you get what you need WITHOUT disrespecting your partner and her things.
Rather than focus on doom stuff form the past about how you never had positive relationships or your mom's relationships? I think you could work on focussing on the present, better articulating what you need, and better asking Cleopatra for help when you need it. I think it's fine to know what you do NOT want, but you also have to know what behaviors you DO want so you can work toward them.
Relationships aren't something people just have -- and have to guard like it is going to be taken away. It is something they build and participate in. Sounds like you want to change how you participate in this one -- by changing some behaviors you realize no longer serve you.
She's still giving it a chance, so all is not lost. If you haven't already, apologize and tell her your intent. Something like...
"I want to apologize for going through your things and then lying about it. In future when I need reassuring, I plan to ask directly for what I need rather than sneak around behind your back.
I realize I need to work on my relating skills. To help me learn them, I am making a therapist appointment and intend to work with them on this as well as healing from abuse in the past.
I would also like to ask for your forgiveness and make amends if you will allow it. What could I do to demonstrate that I am serious about changing this poor behavior?"
I realize I need to work on my relating skills. To help me learn them, I am making a therapist appointment and intend to work with them on this as well as healing from abuse in the past.
I would also like to ask for your forgiveness and make amends if you will allow it. What could I do to demonstrate that I am serious about changing this poor behavior?"
GL!
Galagirl
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here goes
First sowrong is anything to do with my post. it is a lime a friendly funny thing when so say with a laugh that is so wrong lol ok.
Second i told my mom about the break( who i have a very bad relationship with from all the abuse from my step dad and her) she went off and made it about her told her cant does this and not so few words said until u fix u i cant have you hurtin g me or messingwith my kids emotions
Then i told my dad alittle better bit he asked did she cheat on you one of the first questions he asked igot upset and said no nobody has cheated on any one then the next day i asked him
Why he asked that and he said i didnt mean it like that he was worried and i said Cleopatra isnt the issue i am and dont ever put things like that on her
My girlfriend has been supportive not prying so it nice to have that and Cleopatra boyfriend has been too for her
Cleopatra and my girlfriend told me maybe i should talk to online poly community for advice and help that why im here
First sowrong is anything to do with my post. it is a lime a friendly funny thing when so say with a laugh that is so wrong lol ok.
Second i told my mom about the break( who i have a very bad relationship with from all the abuse from my step dad and her) she went off and made it about her told her cant does this and not so few words said until u fix u i cant have you hurtin g me or messingwith my kids emotions
Then i told my dad alittle better bit he asked did she cheat on you one of the first questions he asked igot upset and said no nobody has cheated on any one then the next day i asked him
Why he asked that and he said i didnt mean it like that he was worried and i said Cleopatra isnt the issue i am and dont ever put things like that on her
My girlfriend has been supportive not prying so it nice to have that and Cleopatra boyfriend has been too for her
Cleopatra and my girlfriend told me maybe i should talk to online poly community for advice and help that why im here
Hi Sowrong,
It sounds like the main thing you need to do is start coming clean with Cleopatra, admit you looked through her stuff and lied about it. Then maybe ask her what she needs you to do to help fix the relationship. Of course, don't gaslight her anymore.
Anyway that's my initial advice.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
It sounds like the main thing you need to do is start coming clean with Cleopatra, admit you looked through her stuff and lied about it. Then maybe ask her what she needs you to do to help fix the relationship. Of course, don't gaslight her anymore.
Anyway that's my initial advice.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.