Stringing her along to stay close to her husband.

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WifeAndBoyfriend

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My wife and I have been dating another couple, the Smiths, for six months now. Mrs. Smith is my wife's girlfriend, and Mr. Smith is my boyfriend. My wife and Mrs. Smith met first and introduced me to her husband. We all started dating as a group and things moved fast. Things got more difficult when my wife and Mr. Smith got closer and developed a sexual relationship. Mrs. Smith has a lower sex drive and had never really been with a woman before, and things petered out between she and my wife before they really got off the ground. As the NRE died down, Mr. Smith and I found ourselves in a deep and genuine love bond, my wife found herself having unprecedented feelings feelings for him (she's a lesbian and doesn't normally connect with men in this way)... and my wife and Mrs. Smith found themselves mostly fighting and draining each other of energy and joy. The longer things go on, the more convinced we both are that she isn't right for us. But we are so in love with Mr. Smith and he with us, and none of us can imagine losing one another. We are also terrified of how Mrs. Smith will suffer from the breakup. Even though the romance between herself and my wife has been diminishing for months, she doesn't have a lot of friends and we seem to be the closest people in her life. She also struggles with mental health challenges and has very low self-esteem. At the height of the conflict and misery between herself and my wife I asked her why she doesn't break up with my wife, and she says that she feels so undeserving of love that she is incapable of breaking up with anyone. Every time my wife resolves to break up with her, she convinces herself to keep trying, even though she tells me that she doesn't even like her girlfriend as a person. Mr. Smith knows that we struggle with some of his wife's behavior but he is a good husband, is always loyal to her, and tries to help us see good intentions in the worst moments. He desperately wants the four of us to work out and build a life together. I don't believe there's any amount of "working on it" that can make either of us be in love with someone we don't even like, but my wife just can't seem to bring herself to break it off, and I can't help but be glad each day that she doesn't while we keep pretending to believe in the dream.
 
This is why I would never do a quad type arrangement. They always seem to end up with someone being stuck with someone in order to keep the peace. It may kind of seem like it's more fair to keep her in the loop, but it's really not fair at all. They are going to break up eventually. For that reason I think it's better to break it off asap, rather than lead her on. Then the two of you could date the husband and she would be free to date someone she is more compatible with. I get the feeling the husband and wife don't do poly like that, am I right?
 
WifeAndBoyfriend said:
My wife and I have been dating another couple, the Smiths, for six months now. Mrs. Smith is my wife's girlfriend, and Mr. Smith is my boyfriend.

My wife and Mrs. Smith met first and introduced me to her husband. We all started dating as a group and things moved fast. Things got more difficult when my wife and Mr. Smith got closer and developed a sexual relationship.

Mrs. Smith has a lower sex drive and had never really been with a woman before, and things petered out between her and my wife before they really got off the ground. As the NRE died down, Mr. Smith and I found ourselves in a deep and genuine love bond, my wife found herself having unprecedented feelings feelings for him (she's a lesbian and doesn't normally connect with men in this way)... and my wife and Mrs. Smith found themselves mostly fighting and draining each other of energy and joy.

The longer things go on, the more convinced we both are that she isn't right for us. But we are so in love with Mr. Smith and he with us, and none of us can imagine losing one another. We are also terrified of how Mrs. Smith will suffer from the breakup.

Even though the romance between her and my wife has been diminishing for months, she doesn't have a lot of friends, and we seem to be the closest people in her life. She also struggles with mental health challenges and has very low self-esteem. At the height of the conflict and misery between herself and my wife I asked her why she doesn't break up with my wife, and she says that she feels so undeserving of love that she is incapable of breaking up with anyone. Every time my wife resolves to break up with her, she convinces herself to keep trying, even though she tells me that she doesn't even like her girlfriend as a person.

Mr. Smith knows that we struggle with some of his wife's behavior, but he is a good husband, is always loyal to her, and tries to help us see good intentions in the worst moments. He desperately wants the four of us to work out and build a life together. I don't believe there's any amount of "working on it" that can make either of us be in love with someone we don't even like, but my wife just can't seem to bring herself to break it off, and I can't help but be glad each day that she doesn't while we keep pretending to believe in the dream.
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I'm sorry you all think you need to pretend to like or love Mrs Smith when you really don't, just to keep having access to Mr Smith. Polyamory is supposed to be about all parties consenting to the arrangement joyfully. No healthy relationships should involve just "stringing someone along" to get what you want.

It must pain both Mr and Mrs Smith to have her be the "odd man out." I'd say the most ethical thing to do would be to bite the bullet. Your wife might feel it's cruel to break off the sham of a romance and go back to just being platonic friends, but that's the only way to make things clean.

Breakups are never fun, but maybe better things all around can come of it.

Edited to add: no one is under an obligation to date a person with mental health issues. I hear that you're terrified that Mrs Smith will react badly to a breakup. But if she has mental issues, it's her job to get treatment. If she wants a fuller richer life with more friends, probably therapy and medication would help. Pretending to be someone's gf in a quad, while knowing deep down it's all an ugly sham, is doing no one any favors.
 
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Re:I get the feeling the husband and wife don't do poly like that, am I right?

vinsanity0 said:
This is why I would never do a quad type arrangement. They always seem to end up with someone being stuck with someone in order to keep the peace. It may kind of seem like it's more fair to keep her in the loop, but it's really not fair at all. They are going to break up eventually. For that reason I think it's better to break it off asap, rather than lead her on. Then the two of you could date the husband and she would be free to date someone she is more compatible with. I get the feeling the husband and wife don't do poly like that, am I right?
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They were poly-identified and intermittently seeing other people when we met them. His outside relationships happened under a don't-ask-don't tell policy (she didn't want to know anything about them). As I understand it, she wept when he proposed the concept of polyamory. This dynamic has played into the struggle in our quad. While the other three of us find our highest joy and pleasure in seeing each other together and sharing affection and sex, she has a hard time seeing me with either/both of them in all capacities and sometimes seems disgusted or derisive about how much we all enjoy sex.
 
Let me repeat back in my own words what sticks out to me in time order. You tell me if I get it wrong ok?

BACKGROUND


  • Mrs Smith and her husband Mr Smith are married.

  • When he brought up polyamory, she wept.

  • They settled on a DADT arrangement. She didn't want to know anything about it.

TODAY

Then me and my wife came along. We started dating them 6 months ago. The couples are

  • Me + my wife
  • Mr Smith + Mrs Smith
  • My wife + Mrs Smith (but rocky as GFs, because my wife doesn't like Mrs Smith as a person)
  • My lesbian wife + Mr Smith (sex partners -- unprecedented attraction but there)
  • Me + Mr Smith (going well, sharing love + sex)

PROBLEMS

  • I don't want to break up with Mr Smith.
  • He doesn't want to break up with me.

  • My wife wants to break up with Mrs Smith because it's meh but doesn't actually do it.
  • Mrs Smith is unable to break up with anyone -- she will keep on with people that do not work because she thinks she's unlovable anyway.

  • My wife doesn't want to break up with Mr Smith
  • He doesn't want to break up with my wife.

  • Mr Smith doesn't want to break up with Mrs Smith
  • Mrs Smith is unable to break up with anyone -- she will keep on with people that do not work because she thinks she's unlovable anyway.

Because Mrs Smith doesn't love herself very much, she puts up with stuff she doesn't really want. The poly thing, the dadt thing, now this quad thing, etc. Which then leads to her not feeling proud of her behavior and not able to hold herself in high esteem.

She also struggles with mental health issues.

Is that how it goes? If so...

OPINION

I think Mrs Smith is a like doormat with a misery bucket. (Not saying it like mean, but like short fast description of situation)

It boils down to examine each person. Who is ADDING to the bucket, TAKING AWAY from the bucket or NEUTRAL?

Going from outside in.

Y'all might be having a fun time with each other and thriving. But to turn a blind eye on the quad member that is WILTING? I think that is mean. Could stop doing that. :(

YOU are doing 1 tromping.
  • You could step back from Mr Smith. Then rather than ADDING to the bucket like before, YOU will have gone to NEUTRAL. Not adding any more, but not taking away. Cuz you cannot fix their marriage problems.

Your wife is doing 2 trompings.

  • She could break up with her. It's weird to not even like the person you date. Get that cleaned up and stop wussing out. Then your wife is not adding to the misery bucket that way.

  • Your wife could step back from Mr Smith. Then rather than ADDING to the bucket like before, she will have gone to NEUTRAL. Not adding any more, but not taking away. Cuz your wife cannot fix their marriage problems.

Then Mr Smith cleans up his marriage one way or another. He is doing at least 3 trompings.

1) Seeing you.
2) Seeing your wife.
3) Jumping the gun on polydating when his wonky marriage isn't clear for that.

  • He cuts her loose. Cuz he wants poly and she does not. These two things are not compatible. He ends it with her because sometimes that IS the most loving and loyal thing to do. Then he no longer ADDS to her misery bucket that way. Then he is free to see you both again.

  • Or he gives up wanting to poly date. He stops seeing other people. So he no longer ADDS to her misery bucket that way. (I assume if he picks this choice, he isn't suppressing. He is actually ok with it.)

But him just tralalala with his new partners while his wife is wilting? What's so great about that behavior? Kinda makes him sound like a jerk.

Why would you and wife be attracted to that? :confused:

I don't get it.

I don't believe there's any amount of "working on it" that can make either of us be in love with someone we don't even like
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You taking a step back (behavior) would align with what you think above. (thoughts). Then you have no inner conflict and can be at peace inside. Your thoughts and behavior MATCH. You stop "working on it." You just step back. And expect Mr Smith to either make a decision about leaving his wife or not. YOU are out of the mess making. YOU are not adding to misery buckets. YOU can be more at peace in your mind.

Rather than thinking that no amount of "working on it" will solve it. But still tromping on her by continuing to date him. And ignoring your own wife tromping on her twice -- seeing him and not dumping her. And ignoring him tromping on her three times.

All this ignoring of poor behavior just because you want to maintain access to him to get love and sex out of him? That's messed up sounding to me. On some level I suspect you agree or you wouldn't be posting.

Now... extraneous trompings removed?

Mrs Smith can stop tromping on herself. She STOPS putting up with stuff she doesn't really want. If Mrs Smith has nobody else from the quad adding to her misery bucket weighing her down? And she is still gonna lay there like a doormat not taking better care of herself? Not get medical help? Not change her own behaviors choices? Not work on her self esteem problems? At that point it is JUST HER adding to her misery bucket.

And none of y'all are responsible for her actions. So it's her problem.

And if desired, you and wife can move forward to polydate more CLEAN.

It's not you and your wife's job to be some kind of enabling bandaid thing to help Mr Smith endure a wonky marriage. A wonky marriage he is in because he's too much of a wuss to clean it up BEFORE poly dating. I think he's jumping the gun.

Like either the couple is totally ok with poly dating. So he's in the clear to date you both.

Or they have already split because one wants to and the other doesn't. So he's in the clear to date you both.

Not him dragging his unhappy wife along for the ride.

I think that's mean in general and if the woman has mental issues and is a patient on top of it? That's extra mean. :(

What kind of character does this dude have? :confused:

You have only known him 6 mos -- maybe he presented his situation different or it took time to come to light. But now that is IS in the light? What are you going to do about it? Keep ignoring and piling things in her misery bucket? Then that makes YOU the jerk.

I suggest you not do that.

Instead I encourage you to step back and expect your wife to step it up. And expect him to step it up too. Or not. And then you see him for his true colors. And your wife's too, I guess. Cuz if you step back and she keeps on with the wonky just to retain access to a sex partner? You might start to think differently about her character.

I get that you don't like the idea of breaking up and losing him. But it's not worth it if you have to lose your own integrity and your own liking of yourself because you keep ignoring the trompings. I think that's too high a price of admission when there's other people to poly date without mess attached to it.

If you see mess happening? Get out of it. Don't lay down and roll around in it. That would be my opinion.

Galagirl
 
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She did it.

Thanks y’all. We both knew what she needed to do. Guess we just needed somebody to tell us about ourselves.

My wife has ended her relationship with Mrs. Smith. Mr. Smith and I have no intentions to part ways, although we have don’t know if or how we’ll be able to see each other (we live 4 hours apart and have always visited each other as couples).

My wife and Mr. Smith don’t plan to continue their relationship as it has been because they both believe that would be cruel to Mrs. Smith. We’ll have to wait to see what happens on all fronts.

Either way, the deception is over. And even though we’re grieving the dream, that feels really, really good.

Better roads ahead.
 
Either way, the deception is over. And even though we’re grieving the dream, that feels really, really good.

Better roads ahead.
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I'm so glad to hear that the deception is over.

  • Your wife broke up with Mrs Smith
  • Your wife ended the FWB ish thing with Mr Smith. Whether or not they pick back up in future? That is TBD.
  • You have not broken up with Mr Smith, but are stepping back and holding space to see what comes next. No plans to see him right this minute. Also TBD.

And the result of those behaviors? Is better feelings for each of you two.

Like... not totally out of the woods yet. But better and least less "misery bucket piling" from you two.

Good on you! :)

Now it's his turn. I hope Mr Smith demonstrates the same resolve to straighten his share of all this mess and stops wonky-ing along. (For lack of a better word.)

GL!
Galagirl
 
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Hello WifeAndBoyfriend,

It sounds like you were able to make the right decision given the situation. I hope Mrs. Smith will get some professional help (therapy and/or meds). It's not good that she feels completely unlovable. Maybe Mr. Smith can help, he can encourage her to get the professional help that she needs. In any case, I think you made the right decision.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
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