Struggling in my relationships

[mg23snail]

Hi, my name is Max. I'm a male. My two partners (I will use fake names with the first letter of their names, bc I know they do research sometimes, and I'm scared they will find this) Caleb and Idris, also males, are making me question things.

Caleb met Idris, and then he introduced him to me. After a while, I started falling for Idris, and we started dating, (Caleb had no issues, as he knows I'm poly, and it doesn't bother him accepted after I asked.) A while after, me and Idris had a small fallout from a fight, where I found out he had mental health issues and he wasn't really who I thought he was when I fell for him. (This is relevant.) But we recovered. I had no issues with his mental health and I found out who the real him was (or so I thought). After a while of this that happened, there were the usual couple arguments, but nothing extreme.

My issues here is one time I discussed with them both if they liked each other, because Caleb and Idris made me feel like they were dating without me knowing. Once when I found them cuddling in Idris's bedroom, they went on a date, and when they came back both wouldn't talk about it until the next day, when Idris and Caleb told me they didn't think they liked each other. But ever since that day, I realized Idris was different with Caleb than with me. He's sweeter with Caleb, but with me he's usually colder and quieter. Although they're not dating, Idris helps him with his anxiety when I'm not there.

Once we were cuddling, with me in the middle, and Idris kissed Caleb, and ever since then Caleb is confused as to whether he likes Idris or not. To me there are no issues if they date or like each other. The issue is that they both act completely different around me than when they're together.

Today me and Caleb had a fight. Him and me were both having a bad time. Idris told him to sit it out while he "talked to me" (which was basically just asking a few, you ok? questions here and there, as I cried my eyes out.) He then tells me Caleb has calmed down, so he's going to draw a bath for him and help him so he's OK. This stung me bad. Not because they can't be together or I'm jealous, because I'm being treated differently.

I'm not sure if I'm just being crazy or weird about it, but it feels like they don't like me. I got mad and went quiet after he said that, and said good night, hoping he'd say something like "Do you need something?" or anything. But he didn't. Later he comes back and says, do you need a hug? after realizing I was awake. I said, no it's too late. I threw it into his face how he should just focus on Caleb, since he's more important. I just shut down. I told him I needed to be alone because of the way I felt.

Now I'm here and trying to find out what to do, while they do god knows what.

I wanna add that for some reason they both are very scared (mostly Caleb) to date each other, Caleb's reason being our failed last poly relationships.

 

[Evie]

So, first up, you sound quite young and still learning how to navigate relationships. This is normal, we've all been there, but many of us didn't go straight to hard mode, being poly and trying to deal with two relationships at once, and super hard mode where those people are also into each other, maybe. So first up, take a pause, and really ask yourself if this is where you want to be.

1. Mental health issues are quite common, but is that person actually working on themselves or are they using it as an excuse for bad behaviour towards you and even themselves. If someone isn't trying to overcome their trauma, they are just going to smear that crap over everyone they encounter. Don't be the doormat they wipe their shoes on. That's what a boundary actually is - stating your won't be a doormat (whatever that has started looking like), and if they continue to try to do so, then picking yourself up and leaving.

2. If your people are different towards each other than towards you, well, that's natural since every dyad will have it's own dynamic. But if you feel like one or both of them are freezing you out, then they probably are and just don't have the guts to say it. Is that how you want to be treated? No. See the last two sentences of (1.)

3. It is not your job to smooth the path to their relationship.

4. You are not their go between.

5. Don't just wish for someone to do something you want. They cannot read your mind. Speak about what you need.

6. If you want someone who you feel is more in tune with your needs and will know you well enough to anticipate them, then dump the people who don't do that and go looking for that person.

7. Expect that even that future fantasy person will still need time to get to know you and you will have to communicate with them in the early stages of the relationship what it is that you need, and after a while they will learn you well enough to anticipate things. Be prepared to teach them how. And be prepared to learn from them what they need you to know about their needs.

Perhaps Caleb and Idris will truly grow into understanding and genuinely wanting to meet your needs, or perhaps they won't. How long will you wait before you cut your losses, embrace your growth, and move on?

 

[GalaGirl]

I don't know if my impressions could help you any. This is what sticks out to me.

To me there are no issues if they date or like each other.

I wanna add that for some reason they both are very scared (mostly Caleb) to date each other, Caleb's reason being our failed last poly relationships.

Why do you call them "failed" poly relationships, rather than just plain breakups? Even in monogamy, sometimes people break up. Breakups are a normal part of dating.

If Caleb is worried about poly dating, why jump into a triad thing, rather than leaving it as poly-V or poly-N shapes, where you and Caleb date your own separate people, rather than both of you dating the same one? Was that the problem in the past, other triads that did not pan out?

You are okay with those two dating. So you could decide that they are basically dating, but haven't made it "official" yet, because of their own issues. You can see the writing on the wall. You don't need them declaring it officially to be okay with it. You are already okay with it.

I don't cuddle and kiss/make out with my friends. I like strong personal boundaries. If you three are having group cuddles/group dates, etc., and it leads you you feeling "ugh," stop doing group stuff and skip the ugh.

Feelings ensue after behaviors. So change your thinking/action behaviors and see if better feelings ensue.

I got mad and went quiet after he said that, and said good night, hoping he'd say something like "Do you need something?" or anything. But he didn't.

You did not ask for what you needed here-- attention, a hug, kind words, etc. You were hoping Idris would guess/read your mind. They didn't guess, they aren't a mind reader. So you got even more up in your feels because of unmet needs.

Later he comes back and says, do you need a hug? I said, no it's too late.

So Idris made a bid for connection later, and you rejected it.

I threw it into his face how he should just focus on Caleb, since he's more important.

When you don't speak up for what you need, and expect others to guess, how is that you treating yourself as important? How is throwing things in Idris's face treating Idris as important?

I just shut down. I told him I needed to be alone because of the way I felt.

It's understandable if you are overwhelmed in the moment and cannot really think straight. But when you two come to calm, you and Idris could talk about how to handle it when one or both of you is all up in your feels; what are/aren't realistic expectations of each other; how you don't like competing with Caleb for Idris' attention and care; how you don't like Idris butting into your + Caleb's arguments.

The issue is that they both act completely different around me than when they're together.

Why is that a problem? That's fine. (You + Caleb) and (You + Idris) and (Caleb + Idris) are all different dyads because there are different people combos in a triad.

Or did you mean when you all hang out in a group, they are all lovey-dovey/in NRE/showing PDA, and you feel awkward? You end up feeling like a third wheel? That's different than each dyad having their own style.

It sounds like there is too much togetherness in this group, and witnessing them with each other bugs you. So you could stop hanging out in a group/having group dates.

If you are all going to hang out as friends, be clear about that it is NOT a group date and request the PDAs be limited to hello/goodbye kisses and hugs. If people cannot limit their PDAs, stop hanging out in a group.

If they ask why, you get to say, "I'm fine with you two dating each other. I'm not fine watching you two make out in front of me."

YOU get to decide what you are/are not okay with.

Once when I found them cuddling in Idris's bedroom, they went on a date. When they came back, they wouldn't talk about it until the next day, when Idris and Caleb told me they didn't think they liked each other.

What are you doing just going into Idris's bedroom? Don't people close their doors? Don't others knock?

Where do you all live? Separately? Together? In a dorm? What is the living situation? That could be adding to the problem of "too much togetherness" and "too casual about personal boundaries."

Although they're not dating, Idris helps him with his anxiety when I'm not there.

Why is Idris helping Caleb with his anxiety when you are not there a problem for you? You want to be the only one who helps Caleb with that?

You all sound young. Them cuddling and going on dates is fine. They are dating. You are good with them dating.

Group cuddles/make outs with you? Idris inserting themselves into arguments into the (You + Caleb) dyad rather than giving you two some privacy? Not so much. You DO NOT sound okay with all that.

Separate their emerging(?) dating life from YOUR date times with Caleb and YOUR date times with Idris.

Every dyad needs its own time, on its own. Here it sounds like it skews like "too much group" and "not enough 1:1 dates" with your partners. There are also a lot of fuzzy boundaries, rather than firm ones, so you end up comparing and contrasting. Firm up the personal boundaries.

Today me and Caleb had a fight. Him and me were both having a bad time. Idris told him to sit it out while he "talked to me" (which was basically just asking a few, you ok? questions here and there, as I cried my eyes out.) He then tells me Caleb has calmed down, so he's going to draw a bath for him and help him so he's OK. This stung me bad. Not because they can't be together or I'm jealous, because I'm being treated differently.

Why are you and Caleb arguing in front of Idris, rather than sorting it out in private?

Why is Idris getting all up in it, acting "parent-y"? It's not their job to "parent" you both, or be the "go-between" or "peacemaker."

Next time, keep arguments private. Don't argue with Caleb in front of others. You can say "Caleb, we need to sort that out. I'd prefer to come to calm first, then sort it out in private. Could we talk it out on Friday?" or similar.

If Idris starts trying to help, without even asking if his help is wanted, and his "help" feels more like he's "butting in"? Speak up for yourself, like:

"No, thank you. I have not asked for your help, Idris. Caleb and I will sort it on our own time in private. I think it best if we cut this group date/hang-out short. I'd like to go home."

And then you go home to cool off.

Idris had a small fallout from a fight, where I found out he had mental health issues and he wasn't really who I thought he was when I fell for him. (This is relevant.) But we recovered. I had no issues with his mental health and I found out who the real him was (or so I thought). After a while of this that happened, there were the usual couple arguments, but nothing extreme.

I'm going to guess. I might guess wrong. Is the problem that you are cooling off on Idris? He isn't who you thought at first, he's kind of cold towards you, and dating him has become kinda "meh"? Is it time to break up with Idris, but you're hesitant to do it because of the mental health stuff?

Does Idris have BPD? Has he made Caleb their "favorite person?" Is that part of the problem?

Did Idris start dating you just to get access to Caleb, the one he really wanted to date, so you feel kind of used?

Is the problem being in a triad? Triads and quads are difficult models, because your partner is ALSO your meta, AND the hinge to someone else. They aren't just "my partner." They wear multiple hats. Perhaps after this you might decide not to date the same people your partner dates any more. You don't date any more of Caleb's potential or partners. You don't date any more of Idris' potentials or partners.

The issue could be none of those things. But maybe some are in play. I suggest you take some time to reflect.

Galagirl

 

[nks]

Hi! You have to realize that you are in a very complex relationship. You should go over each and every point the previous posters raised and think it through. Depending on how you answer those questions, my answer might become irrelevant. However, I used to be in a triad with two girls. (I am male.) We were quite inexperienced. It just kind of happened, and everyone was happy together.

But, I feel that creating a triad relationship can be really difficult. It is rewarding, but very difficult. There will be all kinds of issues and problematic situations. You have to ask if it is what you want. Or perhaps do the relationships separately. If it is a triad you would like, and the others are also on board, then there is a lot of work to do.

I really loved being in this kind of relationship, so I often tell people to go for it, but there is so much failure that many people advise against it.

Now, the issue is that there are three dyads, and then there is the group. So, when things get heated, it is a good idea to deal with things one-on-one and try to work things out. You did not tell us what the fights were about, or how serious the issues are, so it is difficult to say where you are here. From what you told us, things look pretty messy right now.

I had a crush on an ex-girlfriend's male friend once. After we broke up, she told me he was gay, introduced him to me, and we got closer. I was kind of into him, but I had little experience with guys, and we were also far away. He found a boyfriend, but we kept talking. I used to tell him that I very much wanted a boyfriend. (Back then, I felt the need).

One day, he suggested I become the third in their relationship. I got nervous. To be honest, I really wanted to try it, but I was not sure if I could do it. For one thing, I did not even know his boyfriend. I knew he was attractive, but not much else. Besides, I liked this guy, but I had no experience with guys, and I was still struggling with my bi identity. I was not against trying the triad, but I wanted to work things out with him first.

I had feelings for him, but I did not want to get into their relationship, with all its issues and other things. I probably could have liked the other guy too, but at that point I had no clue if I could have the same kind of feelings. I was not in love with him yet. We lived far apart and nothing happened. But, imagine I decided to try. He and I had feelings for each other, so our relationship would be pretty solid. But he might have a fight with his ex, who might get jealous. I might compensate by trying to be with him, and now the first guy might get jealous. He was supposed to be my boyfriend, but now we are getting much closer. We fight and then there is a lack of trust.

If I just barge into their relationship, then it is likely that I create a mess. Yet sometimes I imagine how nice it would be to simply be in a throuple with two guys... I have to say, it feels so tempting!

Lots of care and attention is needed. You need to be patient and understand that these kinds of problems will happen.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Max,

This doesn't sound very polyamorous, but maybe Caleb and Idris have gradually transitioned from being in love with you, to being in love with each other. They seem to be caught up in NRE for each other, and overlooking your needs. Perhaps the thing to do is to sit down with them, tell them you are feeling left out, and ask them to be honest about whether they are in love with each other. The purpose of this meeting would be to get a firm grip on where you stand, so that you can make informed decisions. I'm sorry this is happening to you.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.