Struggling with monogamy/polyamory and jelousy

Tinwen

Active member
Dagferi: Thank you. Hopefully I haven't offended you by my assumptions.
I read the beginning and the and of your blog. Seems like had you asked for advice about some problems two years ago, people might have also told you to divorce. I am glad it worked out :)


I spent some time thinking about what I actually need and writing the pro's and cons of 50-50 timesplit (not very likely to get that, but at least I want to know if I would be up for it myself), stepping back to a causual/undefined relationship (might be enough to renegotiate some of the DS agreements then), and an abrupt ending. The last still might make most sense in the long term, but I don't want to make a one-sided decision because I am afraid of discussion, not this time. Besides, I have an interview for a job in a city 3 hours away on tuesday, and if I get it, it will change a lot anyway, so I'll wait for the results (hopefully within days, at worst till the end of month).
 

Dagferi

Well-known member
The problems in my marriage stemmed from Butch's BDSM needs and his not respecting my feelings on the subject. I am very vanilla and BDSM icks me out immensely. He has known this since we were dating. I actually broke up with him at that time over the subject. He said he could live without it and we moved forward but unfortunately that subject reared its ugly head with a vengeance a few years ago.

But I have learned that that is his issue to deal with not mine. If he doesn't want to continue the relationship with me without it (he is free to have play or romantic partners out side our relationship) he knows where the door is.
 

Tinwen

Active member
Ok, I've more or less broken up. I wrote two loooong emails on monday, we saw each other then, I messed up not following on my words, apologized the next day and discussed it on the phone.

I told him I reject the direction we had and that I will no longer be his submissive, since it is tied with certain relationship expectations for me. We agreed to let go of partnership ideas, we agreed that I will no longer come to sleep over at his place, that I will see perspective partners without telling him and no longer ask for advice or protection.

We are both very upset of course, but actually my pain is perhaps less then last week (at the moment at least), and I think we managed not to hurt each other more than necessary, although it wasn't perfectly clean. Maybe we will be able to meet occasionally and keep some of the intimacy, I don't know yet. I hope we can make some ritual a of "returning the collar" as a clear dividing line, at the moment he was too hurt to grant me that.

Hopefully I will be fine, I am going to see friends on saturday, and already making plans as how to find someone who would be up for some shibari... well, I think I have to grieve first, but it's a nice thought just now.

Thank you all for your listening and imput, this forum is very special, I can see there are a lot of people comming for reassurance and they do get a kind word and a clear view here. A compliment to all regular contributors. You are great.
Sorry to Dagferi and other vanilla folks for providing some DS details :)
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
We are both very upset of course, but actually my pain is perhaps less then last week (at the moment at least), and I think we managed not to hurt each other more than necessary,

No break up is "fun" but as far as break ups go, I think that is a pretty good outcome. That you guys tried to take it with grace and not get all mean or acting out at each other. Some feelings of grief are to be expected.

Glad to hear you are less pained today than you were last week.

Galagirl
 

Tinwen

Active member
Seems like I have been too optimistic. Of course it hurt like hell. And... no, in the end I didn't have the integrity to keep my distance. I still seem indecisive between the understanding that I should set myself free from the relationship as to have time and energy to look for what I really want in life, and the wish to keep mutual understanding and intimacy. He wishes to keep me near, begins to aknowledge that I might need a different form of relationship, but since he is poly, he has a hard time figuring why closeness between two people shoud interfere with finding a partner. Maybe my biggest wish is to increase distance as a joint decision and retaining mutual understanding and respect, since doing it one-sided feels like so much violence directed against his and mine feelings.
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
I am not sure I understand that paragraph.

Are you saying you tried to break up but then you went back because it felt too yucky to break up with him when he doesn't want to break up? Even though you know that you need to break up because that's what is best for you right now?

Could you be willing to clarify?

Galagirl
 
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Tinwen

Active member
Are you saying you tried to break up but then you went back because it felt too yucky to break up with him when he doesn't want to break up?
Well, that's not the only reason, but yes. It probably just felt too yucky to break up, and the other person reaching out to me with affection doesn't make it any easier. We are both excellent at reminding each other how much light there is between the two of us, and although reason might say one thing, I don't seem able to really believe that closing away from that light is the only or best way...
(I guess that is the very same feeling which made me to try out polyamory in the first place, the one that says to wellcome love instead of living up to pre-defined norms.)

Even though you know that you need to break up because that's what is best for you right now?
Galagirl
I managed to make clear a few things at least at this moment. I am not going to have any relationship to my metamour besides us meeting occasionally in our common circle of friends.
I communicated the idea that trying to entangle my life with them is a bad idea and not my direction.

Besides that I have so many doubts.
Does it follow, that it is best to break up? is "right now" right?
He sais we could focus more on opening up to others, so that I can find a partner. Is this possible?
Can I have any kind of relationship without falling back to concentrating on him solely? (Yes, this sounds (co)dependent. Perhaps it is, perhaps not, actually I think it would work if our life direction was campatible. I cannot change that by simply changing partners anyway.)

Please don't get me wrong. I see there are problems. I see there is love. I am looking for solutions acceptable for both, since I really don't want us to avoid or even resent each other. That would be such a shame after all we had and all we learnt.
 

KC43

New member
No matter how much you love him, it's far more important to love yourself. Sometimes that means making painful or difficult decisions so you can put yourself in the healthiest, most beneficial situation.

Sometimes closing off from one source of light is the only way to discover that there are others. And sometimes keeping that one source of light extinguishes the light in you.
 

GalaGirl

Well-known member
Thank you for clarifying some.

Besides that I have so many doubts.
Does it follow, that it is best to break up? is "right now" right?
He sais we could focus more on opening up to others, so that I can find a partner. Is this possible?
Can I have any kind of relationship without falling back to concentrating on him solely? (Yes, this sounds (co)dependent. Perhaps it is, perhaps not, actually I think it would work if our life direction was campatible. I cannot change that by simply changing partners anyway.)

I think those are all things you have to answer for yourself. As a stranger looking from the outside?

You have been agonizing for 2 weeks. You seem to want to stop agonozing. That requires you making a decision and sticking with it. To me feelings ensue after behavior. And if your behavior is sticking around in a thing that doesn't fit you any more... then of course you are going to feel ugh like you are stuck/trapped. it doesn't fit any more.

Does it follow, that it is best to break up? is "right now" right?

If you wish to be free of agonizing feelings or doubts? Then I think yes. Because only a firm decision can release you.

He says we could focus more on opening up to others, so that I can find a partner. Is this possible?

You know yourself and him better than I would.

I wonder if you BOTH are not bargaining -- knowing it has to end, but still trying to find a way to not.

Can I have any kind of relationship without falling back to concentrating on him solely? (Yes, this sounds (co)dependent. Perhaps it is, perhaps not, actually I think it would work if our life direction was campatible. I cannot change that by simply changing partners anyway.)

So you are basically saying that your life direction is NOT compatible. And you worry you get codependent around him.

If so? Staying here is healthy for you...how? :confused:


I am looking for solutions acceptable for both, since I really don't want us to avoid or even resent each other. That would be such a shame after all we had and all we learnt

I think you want to break up only if he says that you will both be pals as exes and still be close in future. Because you fear that may not happen, you aren't making your TODAY decisions. Paralysis.

I think you could decide what you need for your present day concerns and let the future take care of itself. He's either going to be ok being friends and exes or just be plain exes. Not friends. It's out of your hands.

You can tell him you would like to be friends, but his willingness for same is his choice, under his control. Not under yours.

Galagirl
 
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AutumnLeaves

New member
Sometimes taking a step back or breaking up might help you realize that there are things about the other person that you care about and really don't want to lose. If your break up turned into a renegotiation, minimizing the things that upset and hurt you and maximizing the things that are your light and make you happy, I don't think there's anything wrong with staying in the relationship. As long as you're willing to walk away if the renegotiated relationship isn't healthy either, I think you'll be fine.

But you should decide if that's something you really want. Right now, from the tone of your posts, it sounds like you're not really making decisions and just sort of lettings things happen to you. I'm always more anxious and concerned when stuff is happening to me than I am when I take the reins, make some decisions, and take responsibility for the direction my life is headed. All of that anxiety and lack of control is likely to make you constantly question your direction. I think you should take a few hours, days, whatever, to figure out what it is you really want, and then resolve to pursue it wholeheartedly for at least a few weeks before reexamining.
 

Tinwen

Active member
I think you want to break up only if he says that you will both be pals as exes and still be close in future. Because you fear that may not happen, you aren't making your TODAY decisions. Paralysis.
... It's out of your hands.
Galagirl
Thank you for this reminder.


Sometimes taking a step back...

I think AutumnLeaves nails it. I aggree with the whole post, renegotiation is probably fine and I can see myself in the second paragraph as well. I have been rather calm in the last two days (with doubts, sure, but not feeling torn appart), which tells me this cannot be entirelly wrong. But I should clarify what shape I want to give this relationship and go for it for some time.

Maybe I'll update later, thanks to all for now.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Staff member
Hi Tinwen,

It sounds like you're planning to keep your current relationship, but just take charge of where that relationship goes. That seems okay to me and I would like to hear any updates you have (now or later).

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 

Tinwen

Active member
Hi Tinwen,

It sounds like you're planning to keep your current relationship, but just take charge of where that relationship goes. That seems okay to me and I would like to hear any updates you have (now or later).

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

Hello,
yes, I guess that's what I try to do, or even better, to take charge of myself and how I follow up on my intentions. I am not entirelly successful so far, but there is some improvement for sure :)

There hasn't been that much change, except I haven't been to their home since (it complicates things, but I really don't wish to, so we met in public and once at my place).
I feel I have pretty much internalized that there will be no plans together.

Also, I reject the sense of "belonging" to him, or at least I try to. This is a tricky one, since this is mixture of love, trust and devotion, submission and commitment, seeking for guidance, but also passivity and giving up responsibility, possibly also a feeling of being obligated to do some things (including the ones I don't want to do). I mostly liked that feeling so I tend to fall back to it including the undesired parts.

In the moment I am trying to figure out how my monogamish tendencies work, and if this is really something I should choose over the freedom to fall in love and follow it sometimes. I would like to understand what holds me back from searching for a partner now - is that inherent to being in a romantic relationship? Is it my doubts about what I want which hold me back? (Kind of unfair to search for a monogamous or a polyamorous man if I am not really sure I can commit to either.) Or is it more being "lazy" since a big part of my needs for sex and intimacy are being met?

I am pretty sure I will post an update when the next inevitable crisis/change comes, but I feel happy at the moment.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Staff member
Hi Tinwen, thanks for your update, I am glad that you are feeling well.

So, you are keeping your current relationship, but also trying to determine what (if anything?) is blocking you from finding another partner (in addition to your current partner?), is that right? and, is there a D/s element to your relationship/s?

Regards,
Kevin T.
 

Tinwen

Active member
...is there a D/s element to your relationship/s?

I wouldn't call it a D/S relationship any more. In bed only.
There have been few explicit rules anyway, but he has always been the stronger person (and more experienced in polyamory, bdsm, yoga, selfknowledge, ...), and I trusted his judgement. I think I managed to grow more even over the year, and also lost some of the trust, since he admitted that he saw me going in the wrong direction - and did listen but didn't make much effort to help me correct it, in my opinion. I must rely on myself much more. I am not sure if I can or want to give myself in the "relationship Ds" sense to anyone ever more, it's a pitty though, it felt healing and enhanced our attraction for quite some time.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Staff member
Sounds like your partner mishandled the D/s, or let you down in some way.
 

Tinwen

Active member
Sounds like your partner mishandled the D/s, or let you down in some way.

Yes, I think he did, though no on pourpose, there must have been a different view. I should have been clearer about my expectations.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Staff member
Yeah, communication is important.
 

Tinwen

Active member
Update

Hello,
I thought I would continue with my story. Sorry if this gets a little more bloggish :) I spent quite some time reading other threads in here and two or three really took me by heart, so I like this forum, and it clears my head writing things down.

So I have been quite happy with my decision to renew the relationship for a month or so. Also I got the rest of what I should be doing somehow running for the moment (a part-time job on data processing, and my father volunteered to supervise my thesis and gets really excited studying the physics, he is really cute and it keeps me motivated :)), so I felt fine. I also started to attend tantra meetings, because I find it interresting and I want to shine some more light on my insecurities concerning intimacy. My partner joined after the first one, which I enjoy (but I am kind of proud that I found that particular group suiting me with no concern whether he will be interrested or not).

I avoided my metamour and their home, actually I am still pretty jealous and angry with her. Letting aside territoriality and some communication issues, my biggest fear in meeting her seems to be that she disturbs our intimacy with my partner - there was a very very inconvinient situation of this type prior to the not-to-be-complete breakup, and my fight or flight reflex still seems to go on if I even briefly think about it (any suggestion on that?). But we met for one weekend in the common friends circle, and that was fine.

With my partner we have been meeting about twice a week, visiting tantra and the local bdsm club. (He is hesitant to come to my place since my parents don't agree to the relationship.) Of course we miss each other, so we usually at least talk on the phone to stay in daily contact. So I got space for more regularity in my life, which is good for me, and I also got more assertive with him, which is kind of double-edged, maybe good for me but hard to swallow for him so it breeds conflict and pain (e.g. my change of view that I can be submissive to him in a scene, but I don't consider myself being "his"). It all seemed to work for me for a few weeks, but of course as time passes the missing elements to our relationship are becoming more important, for both of us (the daily contact, the future plans). He seems to really miss how I used spending nights at his place, and I really miss it too, but it always had the stress of breaking my habits and usually not sleeping long enough, and with the additional strain of my jealousy this is not really an option.

I had been pretty depressed this week, but this time I am quite sure it is (or at least initially wasn't) due to relationship insecurities, maybe "just" my natural cycle (I do get mood swings for no reason), or the exhaustion of hard intellectual work. But of course then I am unable to just enjoy the moment and it causes some of the unresolved things to come out. So we talked, and he kind of mirrored back on me that it is still my work to figure out what I want from the relationship (I know that... anyway... shit!), that he cannot grasp how close I want to be now etc. I said I wanted/needed someone to build a "pretty normal" shared life with and I thought it was not possible with him (even if it wasn't for the metamour), and he pretty spot on called my perceived conflict and left me with the question "Okay, how can you want me and an ordinary life at the same time?".

Sure there will be a majority of those who comment telling me I should leave him and find someone monogamous, that I have been looking for a solution long enough. Please do, or don't, I just feel like I would be left with the same insecurities without him anyway and no one to hug me.
 

Tinwen

Active member
Oh, and for me and "monogamy". Hard question, really. I think I am like 60-70% monogamous ;), which means I do tend to have long relationships, a strong need to share my life with a very close person, and inhibitions/braks concerning casual sex.

Anyway my experience also says that I start wanting to try something different after some time (which, in really closed relationships leads to serial monogamy, not nice), that I may be able of loving multiple partners (in some way I still love my ex, and I definitely experienced it before I gave up on the relationship), that I definitely want to be open to some amount of intimacy from outside (like, say, tenderness from my female friends, or an occasional bdsm threesome,... intimacy is nice and fun), that I do have the urge to experiment with others (like getting tied up from someone else) which I am to shy to follow...

And that if I fall in love, which doesn't happen to often, I really cant help but to follow the connection, which is really really scary (especially for the dream about the one and only life partner). I hope managing being in love better can be learned, but since it happened something like 3 times up to now, I don't have much practice :)

Reading what I wrote I guess some "monogamish" but not entirely closed agreement might really be best for me. I also would be able to have multiple relationships. The thing is I am inconsistent and if I do have a live in partner, I know I would be excited if he finds other girls lovely and shows them some affection, but I probably cannot tolerate a truly poly partner who has other relationships on an equal level (and I have seen for myself how much harm a secondary structure can do, so I don't wish to be the one who imposes it).

Well, as confused about myself as ever.
 
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