PinkPig
Well-known member
I wouldn't consider it cheating. Weird, yes. Cheating, no.
The blurry line from monogamy to non-monogamy via pornography
- Thread starter Shaya
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I wouldn't consider it cheating. Weird, yes. Cheating, no.
Shaya
New member
I'm not sure why it would be weird. Isn't that what sybians and vibrators are? Machines? Upgrading them to robots makes them even more appealing. They could go cook you breakfast! 
But I digress. The blurry line between monogamy and non monogamy with shades of grey in between that include porn. Most people on this forum would consider porn to be fine in monogamy. I can assure you there are many in the world who would consider it non monogamy, or cheating. Future tech can make this even greyer. So what defines monogamy from non monogamy. Or how can you convince a monogamous friend that their version of monogamy is actually closer to polyamory than they may think.
But I digress. The blurry line between monogamy and non monogamy with shades of grey in between that include porn. Most people on this forum would consider porn to be fine in monogamy. I can assure you there are many in the world who would consider it non monogamy, or cheating. Future tech can make this even greyer. So what defines monogamy from non monogamy. Or how can you convince a monogamous friend that their version of monogamy is actually closer to polyamory than they may think.
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PinkPig
Well-known member
I'm not sure why it would be weird. Isn't that what sybians and vibrators are? Machines? Upgrading them to robots makes them even more appealing. They could go cook you breakfast!
But I digress. The blurry line between monogamy and non monogamy with shades of grey in between that include porn. Most people on this forum would consider porn to be fine in monogamy. I can assure you there are many in the world who would consider it non monogamy, or cheating. Future tech can make this even greyer. So what defines monogamy from non monogamy. Or how can you convince a monogamous friend that their version of monogamy is actually closer to polyamory than they may think.
Oh, I agree. I know many people who consider viewing porn cheating. Porn can definitely cause issues if it's taken to the extreme. I had a friend whose husband viewed porn excessively, could not get off without watching porn, and thought sex should be like porn. It caused major issues in their marriage. The fundamentalist christian church that I attended once upon a time, would do sermons on the evils of porn, at least once a year.
As for robots, I thought about that. It's just, idk, vibrators and such are toys that we control to bring ourselves or our partners pleasure. While I know we would direct the robot (through the programming), it just feels different because we're not actively involved in directing the robot once the programming is set.
As for cheating, I agree with previous posters - if you've negotiated something in good faith with your partner, and he/she crosses that line, without your consent or knowledge, that's cheating. So, in the case of porn, virtual sex, etc, if your partner requests that you abstain, you agree to the restricition but then you do not refrain, that's cheating. The problem is that most people don't communicate their boundaries and just assume that their partner shares the same views.
My general impression is that people involved in sex positive communities are much more likely to discuss consent, define boundaries, communicate, and negotiate with their partners than the general population.
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FallenAngelina
Well-known member
You keep trying to get to poly through porn and that just ain't gonna fly. Opening the heart and unzipping pants are two very different animals.
(I edited it a little)
Whom are you trying to convince, and why? Are you trying to convince the monos on your cheaters board? Is that where you choose to expend energy?
As Angelina said, polyamory is about more than just masturbation, erotica, toys, and sex. I'm sure you understand that. But perhaps you struggle more with the "having sex with more than one person" bit, than the "having deep loving feelings" bit?
I grey out your "what" because I think it is WHO.
WHO defines it? The people who enter into the relationship decide which definitions to use when seeing up their agreeements. They have to come to agree on how THEY define it, and how THEY will practice it together. For some monogamous people, porn use will "count" as cheating. For others it's won't.
Did they ask to be convinced? Or want to change their opinion? Maybe they don't care to.
For them, in their understanding, it's nowhere close.
For you, in your understanding, it is closer than they think.
And then what? Why spend energy there?
Galagirl
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Spork
Active member
I'm not sure why it would be weird. Isn't that what sybians and vibrators are? Machines? Upgrading them to robots makes them even more appealing. They could go cook you breakfast!
But I digress. The blurry line between monogamy and non monogamy with shades of grey in between that include porn. Most people on this forum would consider porn to be fine in monogamy. I can assure you there are many in the world who would consider it non monogamy, or cheating. Future tech can make this even greyer. So what defines monogamy from non monogamy. Or how can you convince a monogamous friend that their version of monogamy is actually closer to polyamory than they may think.
And you get into all of this WestWorld ethics with regard to robots and AI's that develop sentience and they are basically people, but they aren't "technically" people, so we can like rape and kill them if we want. I don't watch that show. Trying to parse out a personal stance on those ethics is disturbing to me. At some point, you have to ask yourself, "Is this the person I want to be?" Even if your victim isn't a victim, if raping and killing gives you joy, what are you feeding, within yourself? Should your loved ones, your wife, be happy in a relationship with someone who gleefully indulges such monstrous behaviors and urges, even if "no one" is technically harmed by it? Are you poisoning your own spirit, maybe?
Some of this can go pretty damn far down a big, long existential rabbit hole.
And yes, questions like that are where we start getting into arbitrary ideas of right and wrong...morals and ethics...and humanity has always struggled there, and likely always will. Take religion out of it, and now we have to figure it all out for ourselves. Tall order perhaps.
I have to set aside the question of porn, I have too many issues that are mine and they are just not relevant. I'm leashing myself from dragging things any further in that direction of my own personal shit. (and I'm sorry, if anyone was annoyed by that!)
Mainly the irony was killing me, of people on a poly board saying in such an arbitrary way, "this action is ok, that is not" when we have pretty much got a consensus here that you can't just assume things, that even a RELATIONSHIP, full blown with another human with every possible thing that entails...is not cheating, if partners have an agreement that it's not.
Therefore why is it, that porn, or any particular thing, is assumed to be "not cheating" or doesn't count... Can things not go the other direction, if there is an AGREEMENT in place? Seems to me, it's the terms and promises we make and the trust we invest in those, that matter, more than the particular acts.
So ultimately, is it cheating if there is a robot, or a sybian, or a virtual reality Skype session? That depends. Have those people in that relationship negotiated boundaries and agreements? Is someone violating trust?
If that's all that matters, regardless of the semantics of what you call your relationship...it's either healthy, loving, respectful relating, or it isn't.
I mean, you go into "maybe their mono is kinda close to poly"...well here I am feelin' pretty poly-ish, in my thinking at least, when I'm doing something that looks a whole lot like monogamy, with a man. Who cares, really? I think the bigger difference is merely one of cognitive flexibility.
If you have friends, relatives, or loved ones in your life, who are monogamous but having a hard time accepting your interest in polyamory...maybe they are condemning you for continuing to try and keep your marriage happy, when she cheated and they think you should leave her, or they are telling you, "Well I wouldn't let her do this and that" or "I could never forgive..." Thing is, you have to stand your ground with confidence, because yanno...it's YOUR relationship. Not theirs. Your life. Your happiness. They can negotiate their own shit. They don't get to tell you how you "should" be. Not your friends, or your family, or a forum about cheaters, or anyone.
Ask your heart what feels right. Don't ask the peanut gallery. You don't need their permission to live what feels best and right for you. You don't need their validation. Your heart knows.
powerpuffgrl1969
Active member
I fully agree with Spork that a relationship should be structured in whatever way the people involved want it to be. I would be more upset with my husband if he watched "The Americans" without me, than if he watched porn. That is part of OUR marriage; we don't watch that show without each other. Weird, maybe; ours to decide? Definitely.
The term "cheating" is only useful to those involved in THAT relationship. The terms "monogamous," "polyamorous," "monogamish," or whatever are only useful to those in those relationships. I don't want anyone telling me what is considered cheating between my husband and I, and I don't want anyone telling me if our relationship is monogamous or not.
The term "cheating" is only useful to those involved in THAT relationship. The terms "monogamous," "polyamorous," "monogamish," or whatever are only useful to those in those relationships. I don't want anyone telling me what is considered cheating between my husband and I, and I don't want anyone telling me if our relationship is monogamous or not.
vinsanity0
Active member
LOL...I think that falls into a gray area that would have to be discussed among partners. Personally, I would view a robot as a glorified vibrator.
I think this brings the discussion more to the mentality of the person using the porn, robot, whatever. I imagine a person could become attached to an object. The question (asked above somewhere) is can that person still satisfy their partner, or do they become too withdrawn into their own fantasy world? If the latter, there is likely worse problems than cheating going on.
And can you cheat on a robot with another robot?
vinsanity0
Active member
Mainly the irony was killing me, of people on a poly board saying in such an arbitrary way, "this action is ok, that is not" when we have pretty much got a consensus here that you can't just assume things, that even a RELATIONSHIP, full blown with another human with every possible thing that entails...is not cheating, if partners have an agreement that it's not.
But you understand that we are only answering for ourselves, right?
I don't think it could be considered cheating. If I met a woman who did, I would have to question if our worldview was compatible. It's fine for her if she thinks that. It just wouldn't be fine for me.
But you understand that we are only answering for ourselves, right?
I don't think it could be considered cheating. If I met a woman who did, I would have to question if our worldview was compatible. It's fine for her if she thinks that. It just wouldn't be fine for me.
Spork
Active member
FWIW, I have had three different partners become so habituated to extremely frequent porn use, that it caused some kind of sexual dysfunction for them when trying to have intercourse with a person.
Even when it wasn't just me, but also a different woman.
Even when attempts were made to make the physical stimulation the same (for instance, a mutual masturbation session or similar.)
The brain acclimates to its arousal cues sometimes, to the point where a person can't even get off without that whole set of circumstances anymore, or it is a struggle.
I have known men also who have these habits and have NOT had any problem, so it isn't a cause A = effect B situation. But it can happen. Trying to do online research to see if there were any good solutions, I found forums where other men (seems to generally be men) had the same thing happen.
Sucks when you are really into a partner and you know you can never please them.
Even when it wasn't just me, but also a different woman.
Even when attempts were made to make the physical stimulation the same (for instance, a mutual masturbation session or similar.)
The brain acclimates to its arousal cues sometimes, to the point where a person can't even get off without that whole set of circumstances anymore, or it is a struggle.
I have known men also who have these habits and have NOT had any problem, so it isn't a cause A = effect B situation. But it can happen. Trying to do online research to see if there were any good solutions, I found forums where other men (seems to generally be men) had the same thing happen.
Sucks when you are really into a partner and you know you can never please them.
vinsanity0
Active member
Elle is like that. But...if she wants me to fuck her like a porn star, I'm fine with that.
I see this as more of an addiction problem than a cheating problem. Any addiction that is out of control will put a strain on a relationship.
Cat had this thing where she didn't really enjoy sex unless she had at least a slight buzz on. I had a problem with that at some point because it made me feel like she need a buzz to have sex with ME. It wasn't me. That's just the way she was. A guy who is so into porn that it affects his relationships, that's him, not his partner.