The end or just a phase?..distraught..pls help

[Cholita]

Hi everyone, I need help! i think my marriage is falling apart

I have been married to a lovely man for almost 7 years now.
One year ago I started to have a very strong libido and felt like I needed to be physically close with other people. I was upfront and honest with my husband about it and we decided it would be OK to open the relationship.
For just a little over a year we managed to be doing fine at polyamory and I was very proud of our strengths. I saw the fact that we were doing poly and doing it right as a sign of our strengths. We have always been so honest with each other.

Over the last year we both got into serious relationships with other people and we both had moments of insecurity and so did our partners. But overall i think we were doing a pretty good job of managing our relationships. And our own relationship was still very strong and we continued having great sex.

But recently (particularly in the last few months) we've started to be very independent and lead different social lives. He has a girlfriend who he sees twice a week (usually one day just going out and one night sleeping over, with some flexibility in the arrangements). They been together about 8 months. So they are going steady. She and him share many common interests and seems like they are sharing a lot of good moments together and getting closer.

Recently I have noticed that he and I are losing our sexual connection and passion. I come home and his face does not light up the way it used to.
He hasn't picked me up and thrown me onto the couch and devoured me in many months. We don't have plans together that we look forward to anymore. Usually we remember and try to make an effort for each other, but no ones ever super exited about going out together.

We are still quite affectionate with each other.... We give each other a shoulder rub when feeling tired or cook for each other, snuggle a little bit... But just not in a sexual way and its killing me....

We are both getting the passion part elsewhere.
The other day I noticed bite marks on his shoulder so I know they go at it hard.
I am also seeing someone who i am feeling a very special connection with and things are heating up. Which is just making me reflect even more about whats missing in my marriage.

I don't know if my husband and i are losing our connection due to being with these other people or if its because of a process that is already happening to us anyway, and maybe poly just makes the issues between us way more evident.

I have started to feel insecure and not sexually confident around him. Ive spoken to him about how i miss the passion in our relationship. Although he has been really nice to me and been a good husband in other ways he has done nothing to respond to these issues ive been bringing up..

I feel like something that would help us would be to go on separate adventures somewhere overseas, and spend a couple of weeks apart, to miss each other, reconnect with our own selves, and then try to meet somewhere where we haven't been before and have a little adventure together. However, this is a luxury we just cant afford at the moment.

Soon we have to go and spend 8 days with my family and my family are very exited to see us both, But i also feel like maybe i should just leave him behind and see if we miss each other. Or maybe I am just pushing him away because im afraid of what i think might be comming anyway... (like a protection response) ......Part of me wants to test my heart and his to see if theres still something there because i cant handle wondering if we still have a future together or not when that used to be the one sure thing in life.

What should I do??? Im confused about whether we need time apart or time together. I fear if i leave him to give him some space he will not even miss me and just go to her. Could be a good way to speed up a process that is already happening and just find out what is happening and move on.

I love him and want to save our marriage but seems like im the only one that has noticed something is wrong. He tends to just pretend everything is fine.

I feel like ive been bottling this up too, because I know insecurity is not sexy. And i feel like more discussions and crying is not doing us any good. Now im resorting to giving him the cold shoulder to wake him up and make him consider life without each other.

Last night we had the biggest most serious discussion we've ever had about ending it and i slept on the couch unable to be be beside him. He pleaded with me to come back to bed and he started to cry but i felt no compassion for him because ive brought these issues up over a month ago and nothing has changed. I feel like i now need to go and stay at a friends place for a few days and let him think seriously about our marriage. But i dont know if i should do this or if we really need each other right now??

How do we reconnected?? I want to know if anybody has been in a similar situation and how you fixed it or did it just end?? so confused

He is the only person ive imagined growing old and dying with and we've built a life together... so the idea that we might not be able to make each other happy anymore is just shattering.

 

[KC43]

It sounds to me like New Relationship Energy (NRE) might be playing a role in the situation. Both you and your husband have recently begun relationships with others. Although 8 months might not sound "new", NRE can actually last for up to about two years after a relationship begins.

NRE is the "ooh, new shiny!" feeling you get when you have a new relationship. For some people, that excitement carries over into their existing relationship(s), renewing that relationship as well. But for many, NRE takes over and all of a sudden the newer relationship becomes the only thing that matters.

From what you're saying, it sounds like you and your husband have both found strong connections with your new partners, and unfortunately this is leading to less energy being devoted to your marriage. You recognize there's a problem, but unless your husband recognizes and acknowledges it as well, it's difficult to fix. You aren't the only one in your marriage, obviously. Sometimes when NRE comes into play, the person experiencing it denies it, especially if confronted by an existing partner, and this can lead to a vicious cycle where the more the person is confronted, the less time and energy they want to spend on the existing partner, and the more they want to spend on the new partner, which leads to stronger NRE.

To break that cycle, I would first strongly advise not crying or being negative about the changes in your marriage, at least not when speaking with your husband. (I don't know if that's how the discussions have been; that's the impression I got from your post, though.) Instead of going to him in tears saying "You don't devour me on the couch anymore", for example, go to him calmly, even smiling if you can, and say, "It's been a while since we fooled around on the couch. You up for it?"

In other words, give him concrete examples of the things you want from him, and offer solutions. Instead of just saying "We aren't spending enough time together" or "I feel like you aren't passionate toward me anymore," try "I'd love to spend some time together, just us. How about Wednesday night, we cook dinner and then rent a movie to watch on the couch?" Something I would probably do, but I know it wouldn't work for everyone, would be to tease him about the bite marks: "Ooh, looks like someone got you good! That must have been hot. Let's see if I can add to them." (Which is essentially what Hubby said to me last night when he noticed Woody had accidentally left marks on my neck...)

You feel however you feel, and it's okay to feel that way. But the way you speak to your husband about it can make the difference between your marriage improving or continuing to decline. It's okay to let him know you're unhappy, but try to speak to him about it constructively and positively. You're a team; you want to work *together* to fix things.

Spending time apart, in my opinion, would be absolutely counter to what you're trying to achieve. You're already spending time apart, even when you're in the same house. I think you need to spend more time *together* in positive ways, even if it doesn't feel passionate or exciting.

 

[Dagferi]

My advice start dating your husband again. Go out together. Have adventures. Don't just spend time doing household chores and routines.

 

[GalaGirl]

I am sorry you struggle.

You seem to want connection and to work on the marriage. So do that. Don't give him the cold shoulder. How does that help connection?

Ask if he wants to go to the family thing, go but cut it short and spend the rest of the time together, alone somewhere or nesting at home, or skip it and reconnect when you get back. Family doesn't need 8 days if what you need most is time with your hubby. Don't be afraid to try new stuff and shake up the routine. Remember to ask him out, not assume he is up for stuff just because you are married. Ask him to things other than family functions too. Date him again.

To me it sounds like you fell in a routine rut. It happens. But there is no need to take it like doom and make it bigger than it is in your head and then cold shoulder.

Instead have the conversations you need to be having to foster connection.

Galagirl

 

[Cholita]

Both of you gave great advice, Thank you!!!

NRE has definitely played a role in this.

I remember in the beginning of our poly life when i was dating someone new and hubby was just with me. He got really insecure and I remember not feeling attracted to him because he didn't approach me in his normal feisty confident way but was instead in a very sheepish shy way...but realising what was going on I made an effort for him to feel sexy again and I think after a bit of reassurance and coaxing he got his mojo back and then that the NRE thing actually fed into our relationship and for a while i remember our relationship being quite passionate even though i was spending time with someone else.

I know that me being confronting and demanding by making negative statements does not help at all....it puts a big downer on the relationship.... e.g. "its been too long since we've made love", "there is no passion left in our marriage","you're not exited to go out with me anymore".....

But....These all come out in a big explosion when i am just feeling way too upset to contain myself....because he hasn't responded to my more positive attempts.
I have been trying to start dating him again. I found it helped when the two of us just went to a new bar together. The thing is its always me inviting him to places and he never arranges anything for us to do. Knowing how much our marriage has suffered lately would it be so hard for him to book a night out for us or just even include me in some of his plans.

Last night, I snuck into the shower with him and teased him a little, i saw he got hard but i wanted to let him finish his shower in peace ...so i went to wait for him in bed, it was the first time I had worked up the courage to initiate sex with him after a few weeks of a completely dead sex life and to my disappointment he got out of the shower and went straight over to the computer and left me there waiting.
About 10 minutes later he came to bed....but my mood had changed... I tried not to say anything and to bottle it up inside me......but he knew what i wanted and needed and he ignored it.... Then he was all like lets watch a movie.... suggesting another pleasant activity but trying to avoid being intimate with me. Thats when i exploded and made myself look like a desperate banchee. I said a bunch of things i shouldn't have said. And I even bit him really hard on the other shoulder just for the other girl to see and just to hurt him.

Im totally ashamed of my own behaviour but i feel like he is completely avoiding the real issue which would be really easy to fix. All I want is a good hard fuck... He keeps saying our relationship is not all just about sex, but I can't handle living with him if our relationship is going to become platonic like we are brother and sister or flatmates. I am too attached to the memories of how things used to be. He told me sex would happen naturally if I just chilled and cuddle with him a bit, but thats just him avoiding it again. Every time I do that nothing happens.

I will take him on the family trip and I will surprise him for his birthday too. But it seems like at this point even anything positive from me just makes him feel pressured anyway because ive already exploded and been negative so many times that when i attempt to approach him in a more positive way he probably gets scared that if he doesnt respond properly i will explode again. The thing is its getting increasingly hard for me to hide these negative feelings im having. Thats why i started to thing about a break.

 

[vinsanity0]

My longest relationship is 20 years. It is normal for things to ebb and flow. Enjoy what you have. The rest will come back around again.

 

[AJM]

Last night, I snuck into the shower with him and teased him a little, i saw he got hard but i wanted to let him finish his shower in peace ...so i went to wait for him in bed, it was the first time I had worked up the courage to initiate sex with him after a few weeks of a completely dead sex life and to my disappointment he got out of the shower and went straight over to the computer and left me there waiting.
About 10 minutes later he came to bed....but my mood had changed... I tried not to say anything and to bottle it up inside me......but he knew what i wanted and needed and he ignored it.... Then he was all like lets watch a movie.... suggesting another pleasant activity but trying to avoid being intimate with me. Thats when i exploded and made myself look like a desperate banchee. I said a bunch of things i shouldn't have said. And I even bit him really hard on the other shoulder just for the other girl to see and just to hurt him. .

you are making assumptions and counting on him reading your mind. you need to communicate clearly and effectively. use one syllable words if you must. "I need you, NOW" and "fuck me hard" are examples.

someone else posted that you need to date him again. YES, YES, YES!! rekindle the spark of romance! try something new, do it on the kitchen counter, blow him in the middle of the move or while he's on the computer. I'm just brainstorming here. I know you can be more creative. do you have sexy nightgowns? toys?

you have to work if you want to save your marriage. even a garden needs watering from time to time. neglect it and it will wither.

 

[Tinwen]

But it seems like at this point even anything positive from me just makes him feel pressured anyway because ive already exploded and been negative so many times that when i attempt to approach him in a more positive way he probably gets scared that if he doesnt respond properly i will explode again. The thing is its getting increasingly hard for me to hide these negative feelings im having. Thats why i started to thing about a break.

I get how this can get more and more difficult, as you get in the spiral of blowing up because he neglects you and him neglecting you because you tend to blow up.
For blow-ups, I have successfuly applied only one method: learn to recognise your feelings earlier, and state your needs waaay before you blow up.

To break the spiral? Not sure what to do. It seems you have no idea if he is just "forgetful" because his fantasies are elsewhere, or why he does not want to have sex. I guess you will have to guard yourself with patience and understanding, to find out. Sounds like he might have something he doesn't want to say, so you will probably also have to be more honest, to allow him to be honest as well. Try to that without blame. Is that a possibility?

 

[IndieSolo]

There is a reason for the term "Seven-year Itch."

I think that what you're going through is par for the course in most long-term relationships, and probably would be happening whether you were in other relationships or not. You become more familiar with your partner and the passion is not as intense. That is "normal." But you are acting like it's a major catastrophe. Let go of the past and accept that relationships do change, but a period of less sex doesn't necessarily mean it's over between you.

Lighten up. Relationships should be light-hearted and joyful, not bogged down with expectation and demands.

If you want sex, ask for it; don't be passive aggressive about it. You left him in the shower, but did you say, "I'll meet you in bed to finish what I started," or something like that? No, you got him hard in the shower, walked away from him and his hard-on, so he probably jerked off, and then you lay there waiting, hoping he would know you wanted him to fuck you. Then you got all mad that he didn't read your mind. All he knew was that you had just fiddled around with his dick a little bit and walked away.

Practice speaking your truth in a calm manner. If you're cuddling and he doesn't initiate sex, what stops you from initiating? Why are you waiting for him to make all the moves? When you're turned on, let him know.

Practice patience. Look at all the wonderful things in your relationship and about this man that you are grateful for, and feel appreciation for what you've got.

 

[GalaGirl]

I agree with the others.

Speak up sooner. Don't let yourself get to the blowing up upset place. See a counselor if you need help doing your emotional management.

I know that me being confronting and demanding by making negative statements does not help at all....it puts a big downer on the relationship

But....These all come out in a big explosion when i am just feeling way too upset to contain myself....because he hasn't responded to my more positive attempts.

You seem to know being confronting and demanding is not good. Then you seem to excuse it and blame him like "he made me do it."

I think you could own it and not excuse your poor behavior or shift blame. You could review how you do your "more positive attempts" and see what could change. What DO you do? Are you actually SPEAKING UP and asking him something? In the example you give I didn't see where you speak up.

If you are going to jump in the shower and tease him and he welcomes it? ASK if he wants to share sex there in the shower or in the bed. Because you would love to share sex with him. Be pleasant and be direct.

Don't assume he wants to have "a shower in peace" and then get grumpy because he's doing something else after his shower. He is not a mind reader. Maybe he took it like you just wanted to flirt and you did not want to go all the way to sex. You flirted and then disappeared. Maybe he figured "That was a nice change" and left it there, pleased that there was no blow up. He went to do his stuff. Only to come to bed later...maybe wanting more... and find there was a blow up after all. With biting!

Talk about a total turn off!

If you want things to change? Start with you. You have to exercise some self control and stop blowing up. Stop letting yourself get to that blowing up place. Get help from a counselor to do that if you need help. And it sounds like you do. You remind me a lot of this cartoon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iraGmA7-9FA

If you are making it so he is walking on eggshells around you never knowing when you are going to blow up? He's not going to be EAGER to engage with you because you've blown up in the recent past and he doesn't want you to rain "mean" all over him again.

When you complain to him that he's not eager to engage? You are not seeing your own part in the situation making. Who WOULD be eager to engage with you if your recent track record is raining mean on people?

I found it helped when the two of us just went to a new bar together. The thing is its always me inviting him to places and he never arranges anything for us to do. Knowing how much our marriage has suffered lately would it be so hard for him to book a night out for us or just even include me in some of his plans.

So you found something that works to alleviate your suffering that you can do. Do MORE of it from your side so you get more connection that you want.

DO NOT go complain he's not doing enough because he's not immediately showering you with many dates. If you've been behaving poorly lately, accept it's going to take him some time to get over that and get used to you behaving ok again and let his guard back down and be willing to engage with you more. It's going to take more than one good bar date from you.

TBH, I'd find it hard to live with you unmanaged. Come here all sexy in the shower, then blow up all mean because you don't get laid fast enough. I'd get tired of you expecting me to be a mind reader. I would get tired of the mixed messages. I would get tired of the push-pull behavior. I'd also get tired of the entitlement.

He is not obligated to share sex with you. His body belongs to him. Just because you are married doesn't mean he "owes you" sex and you are right to be mad because he is withholding something that "rightfully belongs" to you and "giving it" to the other woman instead.

Thats when i exploded and made myself look like a desperate banchee. I said a bunch of things i shouldn't have said. And I even bit him really hard on the other shoulder just for the other girl to see and just to hurt him.

All that rage only 10 minutes later? Maybe he thought a movie could continue the flirty and then lead to sex? Regardless of what he was thinking... you didn't stop to ask him what he was thinking. You didn't stop to express you wanted to share sex.

What did you do? You spent 10 min cranking yourself up in your head and then blew up! I don't think that level of explosion is normal, hon. You go from verbal abuse to physical abuse? When is biting one's partner in an argument good?

I'm glad you could you could tell your story here, and I see that you are ashamed of the behavior. But don't stop there and sweep it under the rug from guilt or shame. Get actual HELP so you do not do that any more. Address it.

I hope you have apologized to him and let him know what you are planning to do to prevent doing that behavior in future.

He had to have a "learning space" when you were in NRE. Now you are having to have a "learning space" while he is in NRE that seems exacerbated by you having strong emotions and you not always being able to regulate them. It was ok when YOU were in NRE because the strong emotions were pleasant to feel. Not so hot when he's in NRE and the feelings are not fun to feel.

Work to combat your jealousy and put it down rather than work to crank it up even higher. Ask if he will read that together with you, esp page 5 and 6.

Take time, and be more patient. Also realize that while NRE time is fun, that is NOT "normal intensity" living. A return to more normal on your end is just coming off the super intense time. It can feel like a step down, but it doesn't mean it two steps down into the doom place. It's just back to normal living.

Watching him take his turn at NRE? It can feel a bit lonely for a bit since he has to spend time over there securing his new relationship, but it doesn't mean he's abandoning you. It doesn't have to go two steps down there either.

You might want to check for cognitive distortions and see if you are in the habit of doing any of those. If so, work to combat those as well.

I strongly encourage you to seek counseling. Biting your partner in anger is just NOT good.

I hope you take steps toward counseling and things get better for you.

Galagirl

 

[Becca]

Biting, or being nonconsensually violent in any way, is a huge red flag. It's a big deal that you did this, and therapy is a really good idea-- to find a safe space to address the unhappiness you're feeling, and the abusive way you're lashing out.

 

[LifesRichPageant]

My husband and I had at one point been through a period of little sex or affection. At one point he approached me and told me he felt undesirable and that he was worried that I wasn't attracted to him anymore.

There were a few reasons why my libido with him got so low. First of all, he went through a brief period where he would blow up at me for the stupidest reasons, or if he was having a bad day, he would loudly throw shit around his office until he got it out of his system. I got to the point where I felt relief when he left for work, and anxiety when he came home. It was hard to get in the mood for someone I was walking on eggshells around.

Second, he would not be very affectionate, and I would have to initiate everything, and then get rejected. I got to a point where I just got used to the infrequent sex, and just didn't want to be rejected anymore, so I stopped initiating.

Things got better after we talked about all this, and he and I both improved. He curbed his anger and stopped blowing up at me, and he also started making more moves on me, instead of the other way around. I, in turn, became more affectionate and sexual with him.

What I mean in all this, things can definitely get better, but the blowing up at him only makes it worse and makes it harder for him to give you what you need from him. And if you distance yourself from him, it will only push him away.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Cholita,

I'm thinking you and your husband are experiencing a natural process of a roaring fire dying down to embers, and the NRE with your outside partners is making that process more obvious. There are things you can do to regain some of the old fire, but you must be proactive, both of you. Make sure you're doing special things together, just the two of you. But also keep in mind, just because the fire dies down does not necessarily spell the end. The embers are the strongest (if subtlest) stage of the fire.

Re (from OP):

"I've spoken to him about how I miss the passion in our relationship."

When you tell him that, what does he say?

It sounds like there's a communication gap between you two, and you're trying to bottle things in, hoping he'll know what you want from your non-verbal cues. Unfortunately, he's not good at taking a hint. So, you need to tell him exactly what you want him to do, e.g., "Could you plan some special nights out for us now and then? and I'll do that too." Or, "I need you to seduce me aggressively sometimes; would you be willing to do that?"

Others in the previous posts have suggested good ideas of things you could tell him to let him know what you want. Things in the short-term, like when you're in the mood for sex, just come right out and tell him so. Use your words to invite him into your arms. Above all, don't bottle things in. If something is bothering you, say so right away (when you can still do so calmly and kindly), in a non-accusatory way. The longer you wait to talk about what's on your mind, the more frustrated you'll get.

Anyway, those are some thoughts.
Sympathetically,
Kevin T.

 

[Cholita]

Hi everyone,

Thank you all for taking the time to give me advice.

I am going to see a psychologist about my borderline traits and do some cognitive behavioural therapy or something to help me identify my emotions and deal with them before i get to blowing up stage... also trying to be more conscious about communicating directly....not idealise my relationship and be all black and white all the time and stuck in the past.

So tonight he sleeps at his girlfriends house and then tomorrow we have one afternoon free together before we leave for the family trip.

So I invited him to a party and asked if we could get high together as we haven't done that in a while and i said think we really need to relax and enjoy some good music and have a dance together. He rolled his eyes and said he hated that party because he thought the people there were pretentious. I felt hurt by his total lack of enthusiasm about going on a date together.... but didn't say anything. Later on I sent him a text saying "if you don't want to go to that party, then feel free to suggest something different and i will be open to it, i would really like to enjoy a fun afternoon with you before we get stuck with the family for a week"....

Yes, i have to change my behaviour but i really would like to see some more effort from him too. I have been reading lots of books on polyamory and relationships and working on myself and being proactive about our relationship (maybe im doing it wrong but I am trying)... he is lazy.... I cannot get him to read a book for our sake.

I said to him yesterday "could you please invite me to do some fun stuff sometimes because i think this would be good for our relationship.".... But yeh this is also just him being how he has always been a "go with the flow pisces" happy to take a back seat in any plans and let me organise everything. Except now he is not even happy to do that sometimes.

Basically I am trying really hard to be positive and fun around him...but it feels like im letting us down when i accidentally show my true emotions. So then when they do show through i get disappointed with myself and the emotions intensify 10 fold. Im becomming more aware of thought processes but still hard to control them

 

[GalaGirl]

I am going to see a psychologist about my borderline traits and do some cognitive behavioural therapy or something to help me identify my emotions and deal with them before i get to blowing up stage... also trying to be more conscious about communicating directly....not idealise my relationship and be all black and white all the time and stuck in the past.

Good for you! I hope you are able to do all that.

Later on I sent him a text saying "if you don't want to go to that party, then feel free to suggest something different and i will be open to it, i would really like to enjoy a fun afternoon with you before we get stuck with the family for a week"

Good for you. You chose to focus on what you want -- a fun afternoon together and what you prefer for his NEW behavior next time. It's ok to say he doesn't want to attend this party like a polite "No, thank you. I don't really want to do that. How about..." There's no need to be eyeball rolling.

You want him to participate in this relationship and not just be like a bump on a log. You are right that he could do his share.

Basically I am trying really hard to be positive and fun around him...but it feels like im letting us down when i accidentally show my true emotions. So then when they do show through i get disappointed with myself and the emotions intensify 10 fold. Im becomming more aware of thought processes but still hard to control them

It's ok to be emotionally authentic. You don't have to "act positive and fun" when you just don't feel that way. How are you letting yourself down if you are authentic?

Galagirl

 

[Tinwen]

It's ok to be emotionally authentic. You don't have to "act positive and fun" when you just don't feel that way. How are you letting yourself down if you are authentic?

If I may take a guess, she gets into blowing up or blaming and it doesn't serve her purpose, or he gets defensive just by seeing a negative emotion.
I've lived that. It's a real riddle to solve this dilema if you are frustrated already. Am I being "authentic" and expressing my in-the-moment feeling, the (constant) frustration? Pushing him away? Expressing negative emotions might feel like blackmail to the partner (possibly responding to a feeling of entitlement), even if you don't inted it.
Or am I working on the relationship with holding back and trying to be positive, hoping for a positive response?
I don't know. I think a big part of the paradox is changing how you express negative emotions. (Or it may require the partner to work on their listening.) As of now I still see holding back sometimes as necessary, especially if the partner is in a negative mindset too. There would be a fine line to where it is good to be authentic.
What is your way to balance this Galagirl?

 

[SchrodingersCat]

How do we reconnected??

Throw him on the couch and devour him.

Quit giving him the cold shoulder. Reverse-psychology is bullshit.

If you want passion back in your marriage, then pony up and become passionate with your husband. Quit waiting around for him to do all the devouring, look how well that's working out for you.

You say he's always been a go-with-the-flow type, so why are you expecting him to suddenly change now, when you've given him every reason to pull away further? What motivation have you given him to ask you out on dates? This entire thread is all about what YOU want, what HE can do for YOU. Have you stopped for even one second to ask him how he's feeling, and what you can do to make your marriage more enjoyable for him?

Have you asked him if he even wants more passion back in the marriage? When the passion died out in my marriage, at first I was upset about it, but I admittedly hadn't gone out of my own way to do anything about it either. So I sat down with him one day and had a frank and honest conversation about it, and we both realized we were perfectly content with how our marriage was now. Passion is great but it's not usually sustainable, and it can get in the way of some of the deeper connections we're capable of.

A big lesson for me, in my own marriage, was giving us permission to not have sex. Popular culture would have us believe that if you're not having a minimum amount of sex, your relationship is broken. Frankly, that's bullshit. You say you miss the sex all the time, but you're obviously not horny enough to jump his bones right there in the shower, even though he was aroused. So how much of this is your own true desire, and how much is pressure you're putting on yourself according to what you think your marriage "should" be like?

 

[Tri46guy]

I'm definitely not one who should or can give advice on poly relationships, so take this message with that in mind... but just to reflect back a few questions based on what you have said:

Do you think its possible that because you are afraid he might be so into his new girlfriend that he might leave you, that you are trying to push him away first as a defense mechanism? If so that might be something to admit to yourself and him.

You say he hasn't noticed a problem, is it possible that for him it's not a problem? Maybe he expects sex to ebb and flow a bit while you all explore your other relationships and he's not worried if it simmers for a while. But clearly when you talked seriously he cried, so could that indicate the he really cares, but he doesn't quite get where you are with this?

After he cried, you got mad because you had mentioned it a month before and he hadn't reacted enough, but maybe he didn't get how much this was concerning you. Do you think if he's got it now you could forgive him for not getting it then but allow for the idea that maybe he's getting it now (based on his emotional response seems like maybe he is).

Have you considered that maybe its not actually a huge problem to have sex with him simmer for a while? That it might stoke back up if you let the pressure come off of it and just let things happen when they happen?

Questions that only you can answer from someone who is till pretty clueless about poly...

Hang in there. Hope you feel better about things after working through a counselor.

 

[Ravenscroft]

Intimacy in many relationships (if not most) waxes & wanes with time. There were extended stretches when me & my SO were more like best friend/roommates than primary sexual partners. Then eventually we'd realise we'd become totally hot for each other, & weren't making so many "outside" dates because we were having fun (in bed & going out to dinner & shopping) by ourselves, & enjoyed falling in love again.

Anxiety will cause more problems than the "cooling off" itself. For many people, fevered fantasy of impending disaster is somehow easier than trusting oneself & each other.

Don't worry about the sex; remember to hold hands, show simple affection all the time, & always talk -- be friends, stay friends.

 

[GalaGirl]

What is your way to balance this Galagirl?

I was hoping to hear Cholita's POV on that... but how I balance it?

I view it as "Me doing my job and let them do their job."

They cannot mind reader me. If I am upset to the point of blowing up? I report that.

"I am really upset right now. I am going to take a time out. I would like to finish this talk later." I go do my self care.

If they chase me down wanting do do it NOW because they don't want to deal with their feelings of impatience? I still say "NO. I am not ready" and leave them to do their OWN emotional management. I have to do mine.

If they choose to take it personally? Well, that's their problem to solve too. I have my own problem to solve of how to express strong feelings without crossing the inappropriate line. You say it yourself -- sometimes it's that the other guy needs to LISTEN better.​

Then when ready to do the talk? I do not focus on how people are feeling. I focus on behavior I want, and behavior I don't want and make my requests.

"I don't like it when you do ____ behavior. I would like it if you did ____ behavior instead. Are you willing and able to do that? Is there a behavior I am doing you do not like? Is there a behavior you want me to do instead? "​

Because I believe feelings ensue after behavior. Don't like how I feel? See where I can change behaviors. Feelings are mostly like a "thermometer" to me -- address the situation and take the pot off the stove so to speak, and people cool off.

I think people sometimes end up distracted by all the feelings. Happy feelings, sad feelings, mad feelings -- it's just emotional weather. They all pass in time. New feelings arise. I also think people sometimes are not confident in their conflict resolution skills.

It's a real riddle to solve this dilema if you are frustrated already. Am I being "authentic" and expressing my in-the-moment feeling, the (constant) frustration? Pushing him away?

Yes. You are being authentic.

HOW you express? Well, if you are acting out your feelings by pushing him away? That's a way to express but not the most effective way to express. Especially if you meant it literally -- physically pushing him. Even "emotionally pushing them away" with could shoulder business is not effective.

When I say I am upset and I need a time out to calm down and I want to finish the conversation later? I'm not pushing them away. I am making them aware I need a time out, and I intend to come back to it when I am more fit for actual conversation.

Expressing negative emotions might feel like blackmail to the partner (possibly responding to a feeling of entitlement), even if you don't inted it.

That's their problem and their job to do. They could learn to HEAR someone expressing strong feelings appropriately without leaping to conclusions that the person is trying to emotionally blackmail. If this person has grown up thinking that other people's feelings are their job to manage? They could update their belief as an adult and realize each person is responsible for their own emotional management. When someone is expressing things? They are expressing things. Until they make a request? They are simply expressing.

I see people who have been "trained" just automatically jump and and start trying to fix things for the other person when no request has been made. Then they get annoyed this person is "guilting them into doing things" rather than owning that in fact.... they are the ones jumping up. They don't HAVE to do it.

Or am I working on the relationship with holding back and trying to be positive, hoping for a positive response?

To me if you do that? You are trying to do your emotional management, not trying to work on the shared relationship. And not doing it effectively because nobody can fake the happies forever. Then instead of the original problem you have this extra problem of not being authentic and feeling trapped. Original problem is not changed, and the pressure of faking happy starts getting to you.

Faking positive is giving false information to the partner, and if the partner is me? I would be annoyed you are presenting false data. I don't want you pushing me around, but I rather hear you are angry about me doing X behavior and you are asking me to change my behavior to do Y instead. If reasonable, I am going to be willing to change it. If impossible, I am going to tell you why it is impossible. But we are sorting it out. Together.

I think a big part of the paradox is changing how you express negative emotions. (Or it may require the partner to work on their listening.)

I see people get stuck in the "either / or" thing. IME, I usually consider that sometimes it BOTH/AND.

It is BOTH one person has to change how they express themselves AND the other person working on their listening.

Galagirl