The Notebook of JaneQSmythe

JaneQSmythe

Active member
It was actually pretty amusing but there were, literally, ZERO keto friendly options other than turkey at my in-laws yesterday. That and a 1/2 serving of the broccoli that my SIL had made for her kids was the sum total of my food intake for the day until we got home at 9:30 and I ate a hunk of cheese.

One of my co-workers brought in keto pumpkin cheesecake pie - YUM! I took her to 5 Guyz for lunch - bacon double cheeseburgers wrapped in lettuce instead of a bun. Yup. I can totally do this diet!

Tomorrow will be my pig-out day. I had to taste-test the deviled eggs that MrS is taking as his "keto-friendly-side-dish-that-others-will-enjoy" that mom requested. OMG, bacon! Other keto-friendly items on the menu - ham, tossed salad, cheese-stuffed olives, steamed veggies. Can. Not. Wait.
 

JaneQSmythe

Active member
Thanksgiving 2.0

Dinner at my parents with my sisters and their families was every bit what I wanted and expected.

I stuffed myself without breaking keto - the deviled eggs with bacon that MrS made were fucking AWESOME! (a LOT!) ham, salad, olives, broccoli and cauliflower - all the YUMS.

Played MTG with the nephews with the new Plainswalker decks that MrS bought - very fun. Even tempted my BIL into the game!
 

JaneQSmythe

Active member
Holy Fucking Shit!

My husband, MrS, initiated actual SEX with me! It has been quite a while since that has happened! (For those who are not familiar with my posts, my husband is largely asexual, although, by no means aromantic.)

I am curious about what triggered THAT. (Usually, he is content with helping me get "warmed up" - kissing and "oral favors" but leaves the penetrative sex - PIV - to Dude). Maybe because we spent the day together? Maybe because Dude's new "prospect" is due to arrive tomorrow (who MrS thinks sounds wonderful)? Maybe because we hung out with Mr. Interesting-no-longer-Couple tonight? Maybe because I lost 20# and got my hair and nails did? Whatever. I feel GREAT!
 
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JaneQSmythe

Active member
So, due to scheduling and me having the respiratory plague (or something similar :p), Dude and I haven't had sex in a bit. Last night, while the boys were tucking me in, Dude got turned on and I conceded that I wasn't opposed to the idea of sex but didn't want him sick as well (because he is SUPER-annoying when he is in the middle of DYING!). So we went for a "Lazy-JaneQ, var. Face-Down" - which tends to get him off fairly quickly, but I wasn't quite done.

SO, he ended up on my side of the bed in a post-orgasmic coma and I poked him and asked him to switch me places 'cuz the cord on my Magic Wand wouldn't reach. He argued with me ('cus he didn't want to move!) that it most certainly would!:eek: because you hold the wand like "this" >demonstrates< (PS. the angle is completely wrong for a righty!... and you generally end up unplugging the thing at a critical moment!)

Seriously, DUDE?!?!?!

I'm pretty sure that I, and only I, am the expert on how I masturbate! I have, seriously, been doing this for quite a while!

So, I am rehashing this in the morning with MrS present, and he turns to Dude and says, "Seriously, Dude, you just took 'mansplaining' to a WHOLE NEW LEVEL!!!":D
 
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JaneQSmythe

Active member
Marriage

I know I have touched on it a bit while posting here and it's incorporated into my Journey blog about our (Mine and MrS's) views on marriage - but it has come up a few times on the boards here recently, and I have been tempted to post, but haven't..since my position was not directly relevant to the conversation at hand.

I've been married to MrS for 22 1/2 years - and have really enjoyed being married, to him. BUT, even given that, I don't think that I would ever do it again, even if it were legal to marry Dude. Or something happened to MrS.

Wanting to be married, for the reasons that we did it, made sense for me/us at the time (MrS needed to be convinced). Two decades later - the financial/tax/health insurance benefits are nice, but I am financially capable of covering that myself now. Especially because we did not end up having children, the benefits of marriage no longer seem as pressing - why let the government have a say in my personal affairs?

My personal preference would be to abolish the "legal" state of marriage altogether and focus on responsibility to support your offspring (whether in the confines of marriage or not). Anything else could come in under "contract law" and people could have (or not) whatever civil or religious ceremonies their little romantic hearts desire, with however many people they so chose.

The biggest conundrum that I see, is that Health Insurance is inexplicably linked to employment and only "spouses" and certain sectors of children can come in under the employees plan. (i.e. if I am married and my wife's second husband has kids, with his wife, that we raise and take care of with him 1/2 time - I don't believe that I can put those kids on MY insurance).
 

icesong

Member
That's actually pretty easy to fix with a reasonable single-payer healthcare system...
(And yeah, I totally agree with you that I wouldn't get married again, much as I love Knight. I'm not even sure I would ever live with a partner again, at least not in a one on one situation. I either want a big rambling commune or a single person house, and nowhere in between.)
 

Dagferi

Active member
Honestly the only reason I am legally married is to be eligible for survivors benefits including Butch's pension if he were to pass. Plus to be able to be on his health insurance. He is a state employee and being on his insurance has been the difference between financial bankruptcy and being ok after my cancer diagnosis.
 

Vicki82

Member
I'm a hopeless romantic and marriage is important to me. Even after an ugly divorce I decided to do it again.

I really don't know a fair way to make plural marriage work in the legal/financial entwinements area or custody and whatnot... but if I got divorced again, I'd still probably be willing to tie the knot under the right circumstances.

It just feels different to me. I don't think it has to be that way for everyone, but it works that way for me.

I definitely wouldn't want to live in group/shared housing, but I like living with a partner. It's nice to have someone around for late night sex and preparing meals for one really sucks in my opinion. I just like having someone else there. Which doesn't apply to marriage, but I really do like a lot of things about it.
 

JaneQSmythe

Active member
Triggery stuff...again

I never reported my rape. I have always maintained that it was "no big deal", I can handle it. It was a mistake. I'm sure he didn't mean it... That doesn't really count, right?! He probably doesn't even remember, yet I worry that his life has been wracked by guilt...but, I'm "fine" so it doesn't matter.

So, I read the "Guru Falls" thread...and the discussion...and follow the links about "Transformative Justice"...and I think about my experience and my reaction(s)...and I don't have any answers.

I DO believe that people make mistakes, and that doesn't make them bad people...and that people can learn from and atone for their mistakes.

"Punitive Justice"
"Restorative Justice"
"Transformative Justice"

It feels like there are "crimes" for which each of these might be appropriate.

"Punitive Justice" - this seems appropriate for crimes that put other people in harm's way - but no measurable harm was done: speeding tickets, traffic violations, nudity laws, public drunkenness, noise violations...etc. You pays your fine, you learns your lesson, you go on your way...hopefully abashed at your stupidity.

At the other end of the spectrum - you punish people for crimes that there is NO excuse, mitigation, restoration for - by withdrawing their rights to life (death penalty) and liberty (imprisonment).

"Restorative Justice" - this seems appropriate for crimes that take something away from someone that is replaceable - theft, property damage, slander, embezzlement - to restore something, you make it whole again.


"TRANSFORMATIVE JUSTICE" - this is the subjective sticking point. Does the victim get to decide if the "transformation" is enough? That "justice has been served"? My rapist can't "restore" my un-raped state.

I worry that they discount it too much - and think that that was fine behavior to repeat, or decided that they are damned anyway and therefore there is no reason not to continue in the same vein. My biggest fear is that by not pressing the issue I have allowed other people to be victimized - that I have allowed harm to come to others because of my unwillingness to come forward. (In this way I can understand the desire to warn other women without taking formal legal steps...)

Have they "punished" themselves adequately for the harm done to me? I don't know if my rapist even remembers the event! (I don't remember his name or his face - although I knew them at the time. Does this mean that it wasn't traumatic enough to "count"?)

So, the story that I tell myself is that my experience with this boy was a "one off" event. That it was the first, and only, time that he took advantage of a vulnerable woman. That he "learned his lesson" and became a model male to "atone" for his transgressions. I sincerely hope that his "take away message" was NOT that such behavior is acceptable and that he, therefore, went on to escalate his transgressions.

(My opposite fear is that he felt "so bad" about what he had done that he committed suicide - which would eliminate the "next victim" issue but still not "restore" my injury and negate any good that he could do as atonement.)

***** - I may overthink things sometimes...

...maybe I should bite the bullet and pay for an actual therapist rather than subjecting people to this blog...
 

JaneQSmythe

Active member
Anniversary!

9 years! Time to update my sig...
 

JaneQSmythe

Active member
Reality check...

Wow...I was curious about something and popped into FetLife. I hadn't been there for a while and so was poking around and re-familiarizing myself with the site and chanced upon a thread in a Poly group that I had a small thought to contribute and left a comment. Went back to check on the thread today and, holy shit, a hateful mean-spirited comment war had broken out!

I have gotten so used to the generally civil tone here that I was actually quite shocked. :eek: Rather like when I read the comments on mainstream articles about poly and am shocked by the vehemence with which non-poly folk abhor the choices of strangers.

Just. Wow.

Just appreciating how much lovely conversation I have had here on poly.com over the last SEVEN years. Thanks all!:)
 

JaneQSmythe

Active member
So...a new thread popped up, and I looked up the older threads posted by the OP, so I would have a context for the updates....and ended up reading through a number of older threads which have got me observing and thinking....

1.) A number of female members who express that they will never consider partners who have "nesting partners" - so, because my boys live with me (now), they are not candidates to have ANY other partners?! "Co-nesting" is not an option?

This IS a gender specific point. These are women who don't want to clash with female wives/primaries that I have observes. My BF, on the other hand, prefers to date women who are happily coupled - because they have "proved" their ability to have successful relationships

2.) People are not willing to date poly "newbies". - The vast majority of people (at least, Americans) do not know that "poly" is an option - so, who they hell are they supposed to date if they just learned about the possibility - the other "newbie" in their hometown? (that may not be appealing to them romantically/sexually?"

I am not saying, by any means, that someone is, in any way, obligated to talk to/interact with/ date anyone that they don't want to!!! But if "newbie" is your criteria for dismissal? Really?!!? You were never the unsure kid at the "club" wondering if you would ever fit it?

3.) It's not that I am trying to "recruit" people to the poly "option"! (On a grand scale...) but, how do you allow that as a viable option for people if all that they read is that established poly folks won't give them the time of day and that dating "inexperienced" poly people will only cause heartache and misery?

Bull-fucking-Shit!!! (Pardon my French - not at all, even a little)!!! People FEEL things!!! People ACT on those feeling!! Sometimes they even work out! How many lives do you think that you have to work this out? (ONE? better speed it up. MANY? why not start now?)
 

JaneQSmythe

Active member
So, now I am responding to my own last post - but is my own blog so WTF!?!

I have a husband and a boyfriend, a dog, a snake, and a best-friend. All but the last live with me. The best friend has her own home, 2 kids, and a dog. These people are my "chosen family". BFF has her own family - biological and "chosen" that are known to me.

My parents, my husband's parents/step-parents, our siblings, their spouses, their offspring are our "extended family". My boyfriend is estranged from him/our family (although we have met some of them).

So, what is my point with this post? I feel closer to my BFF's boyfriend that I do to my BF's sister. Is this a problem? NO. Biological/relational configurations are ONE PART of our interactions with people!

So, just because someone is related to me/my people doesn't mean I have to like them!

PS. As a disclosure, every partner that I have ever had IN MY LIFE, first heard of "poly" because that is how I identified...Dude's GF Lotus was the first poly-ID's person that any of us had ever dated.

Just because someone is friends with my people doesn't mean I have to like/spend time with them.

etc. and etc.

There are 24 hours in a day. I have so much (not a lot) of social energy to spend. Do I spend it on people who enrich my life... or people who suck me dry? Just. Asking.
 
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YouAreHere

Active member
Chops co-nests. The traffic between work and our home together drives him nuts, but he does this because he wants to. There's no chance of all of us living together in the near future, and if it does happen, there needs to be some clear delineation of space, because I don't want to live with Xena or Curls (no roommates for me, TYVM).

But, this is how it started out for all of us. I imagine it's considerably harder to consider a co-nesting model when opening up a previously monogamous relationship, especially if kids are involved.

As for dating newbies, I guess it's a bullet dodged from the beginning? If a potential partner doesn't have time or desire to go through the emotional work it can take to have a relationship with someone new to poly, then the newbie will probably have a hard time in a relationship with them. I get the irritation, though; it's like an entry-level job that requires 5 years of experience. What, now? You might miss some really good people.

And this?
Just because someone is friends with my people doesn't mean I have to like/spend time with them.

Hell to the yes. If a friendship/closeness doesn't "click", then I'm not going to try to force it. Too much effort when I have other people in my life who I really do want to make time to see. If a meta pushes for more than I'm ready/able to give, it feels pushy, presumptuous, and like expectations need some managing.

And I'm not even in a cranky mood today, but I think that last paragraph sounded that way. Whoops. :eek:
 

Vicki82

Member
I dunno. I can see it from both sides, with regards to the newbies.

I think the majority of newbies make similar mistakes early in their poly journey, and those mistakes often leave their partners as collateral damage. I can understand not wanting to take the risk that someone's partner is going to pull a veto, or that they'll decide poly isn't for them, or any of a number of other mistakes that would just leave me with heartache.

It's not that poly people who have been around the block once or twice are guaranteed not to hurt me, but at least I know they have some idea of what they are getting into. That's the big problem. Someone can have intense feelings for you and you can click well together, but if they don't have a frame of reference for the situation, they can't be sure that even just the relationship style is going to work for them.

I've never been in a situation where I already had a connection with someone who was a total newbie- it's been more of the online dating sites where I just prefer not to build that connection. I don't know what I'd do if I already had a spark. I probably would go for it, but with a lot of trepidation.
 

JaneQSmythe

Active member
Thanks YouAreHere and Vicki82 for dropping by!

I was feeling a bit snarky when I made those last two posts - but I think that may because I came to poly long before the internet was here to bring like-minded people together - practicing my own brand of solo poly in high school and college and having to explain/demonstrate the concept to anyone I met that I shared an interest in. It was simply not a known concept in many parts of the country!


But, this is how it started out for all of us. I imagine it's considerably harder to consider a co-nesting model when opening up a previously monogamous relationship, especially if kids are involved.

I would imagine that you are correct! Since I have always identified as poly I never had to make that paradigm shift, personally. All of the people that did decide to make that shift to be with me knew, from the beginning, that true monogamy was never on the table. If we had children they would have been born after we were already practiced in poly - so that would have been a consideration from the beginning, rather than a change.

As for dating newbies, I guess it's a bullet dodged from the beginning? If a potential partner doesn't have time or desire to go through the emotional work it can take to have a relationship with someone new to poly, then the newbie will probably have a hard time in a relationship with them.

I guess I feel that every relationship has a learning curve - whether your partner has a different relationship orientation (poly), different religion or philosophy, come from a different culture or socioeconomic strata, different political or economic views, different ways to handle money, etc. Poly is just one of a long list of potential incompatibilities.

MrS was NOT good with money when we got together, whereas I am very frugal - that was probably a bigger paradigm shift for him than the poly one was (he was intellectually poly-friendly even if he hadn't been formally introduced to the concept). Is the (VERY common) conflict over money really any less of a hurdle than poly?

I get the irritation, though; it's like an entry-level job that requires 5 years of experience. What, now? You might miss some really good people.

Bingo!!! (ding, ding, ding) How do you get started if you never have the opportunity to start? I was fortunate that I formed my poly philosophy (thanks to Heinlein) before I was ever invested in a relationship - so I was able to shape the trajectory of my sexual/relational life from the very beginning

If a friendship/closeness doesn't "click", then I'm not going to try to force it. Too much effort when I have other people in my life who I really do want to make time to see. If a meta pushes for more than I'm ready/able to give, it feels pushy, presumptuous, and like expectations need some managing.

Yup. I would put metas in the same category as my friends' spouses/significant others, or our extended families. If I don't mind hanging out with them (and they with me! :eek:) then that expands the opportunities to hand out with my friend, partner, family member. If I don't like being around them - then I will decline invitations/opportunities when the are present. One of the reasons that I love my BFF SLeW is that she ALWAYS lets me know if there will be other people present, who they are, and that I am free to decline. (She knows ALL of my introvert triggers - I can wait weeks to see her alone - she can always FaceTime me or ask me to stop it for a short hug if she misses my face.)

...I'm not even in a cranky mood today, but I think that last paragraph sounded that way. Whoops. :eek:

Didn't sound cranky to me! Simple statement of fact/observation.

I dunno. I can see it from both sides, with regards to the newbies.

I think the majority of newbies make similar mistakes early in their poly journey, and those mistakes often leave their partners as collateral damage. I can understand not wanting to take the risk that someone's partner is going to pull a veto, or that they'll decide poly isn't for them, or any of a number of other mistakes that would just leave me with heartache.

I agree that poly newbies make the same mistakes that previous poly newbies have made - at this stage of my life I expect and wait for them. I am prepared :rolleyes:. This doesn't particularly bother me - BUT, I do not easily invest in relationships, I basically have to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the "relationship arena" - I am WAY more comfortable with FWBs! I am not a fan of NRE, and "feelings" are something that I only ever admit to grudgingly - so..."heartbreak" is not really on my radar. (From MY end, I have learned to be more cognizant that other people do not operate the same way that I do and have learned to mitigate their expectations - I am NOT going to leave my partners(s) for Mr. New-and-Shiny, you are NOT going to "turn me mono", "sweeping me off my feet" would require an industrial strength road-sweeper - so, NO.)

It's not that poly people who have been around the block once or twice are guaranteed not to hurt me, but at least I know they have some idea of what they are getting into. That's the big problem. Someone can have intense feelings for you and you can click well together, but if they don't have a frame of reference for the situation, they can't be sure that even just the relationship style is going to work for them.

Hmmm. (This is my cynical self talking...) I think that poly people who have been around the block once or twice are in danger of THINKING that that they have some idea of what they are getting into...when, in fact, no one EVER does (mono or poly). So they had this one experience that worked with this one person and therefore that is how EVERY situation should work from now on. NO! I am not that other person, I have different needs/wants/desires/priorities.

I've never been in a situation where I already had a connection with someone who was a total newbie- it's been more of the online dating sites where I just prefer not to build that connection. I don't know what I'd do if I already had a spark. I probably would go for it, but with a lot of trepidation.

All of my real "connections" have been with people that I met IRL over the years. I have met a few folks on dating sites, but those have never led to anything more than a brief sexual or social encounter. (I may be too old for this! )
 
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fuchka

Member
Really interesting discussion! Makes me think of the similarities and differences between another common boundary in sexual relationships which is whether / not you date someone who is experimenting with their sexual preferences.
 

MeeraReed

Member
Hmm, I think the people who say they will not date a poly newbie and/or a man with a nesting partner have had bad experiences with those situations so have simply vowed never to do it again. Seems reasonable.

For me, I want to date someone who is inherently non-monogamous (or inherently not into traditional monogamy), someone who has always felt that way. That's just the type of philosophy that would be compatible with me. So, a poly newbie wouldn't interest me unless it's someone who just recently discovered the terms/labels but has a longer experience or affinity for the concepts, if that makes sense.

Like, on OKC I get messages from guys who are like, "Wow, my wife of 10 years and I just discovered the idea of poly and opened our marriage!" and I'm not interested. I can already tell we have nothing in common.
 

Vicki82

Member
Hmmm. (This is my cynical self talking...) I think that poly people who have been around the block once or twice are in danger of THINKING that that they have some idea of what they are getting into...when, in fact, no one EVER does (mono or poly). So they had this one experience that worked with this one person and therefore that is how EVERY situation should work from now on. NO! I am not that other person, I have different needs/wants/desires/priorities.

See, now this is something I can absolutely agree with. Every relationship IS different, because not only is each individual different but because the combination is different.

That being said, I wouldn't expect stuff like a veto or certain types of issues with people who have been poly for a while. To me, it's not about having a roadmap into a specific relationship but rather just about being able to avoid the newbie issues.

Also, I am indeed one of those people that falls hard when I catch feels. While I do connect with people on the friends/FWB/play partner level if that works, once the romance gets in I'm down for the count if we're hitting it off. So I don't want to take the chance of being crushed by something I should have seen coming, if that makes sense. The first "poly" relationship I had caused me so much anguish while I was trying to figure it out that I spent more time recovering from it than I spent in it (total, not even against happy time :p). So I think I likely come at it from a different side of things.
 

JaneQSmythe

Active member
Really interesting discussion!

Thanks for joining in! I am quite enjoying it myself.:rolleyes:

Makes me think of the similarities and differences between another common boundary in sexual relationships which is whether / not you date someone who is experimenting with their sexual preferences.

Yes, this comes up here a fair amount as well. We all have our own preferences (and biases). I have read where people object to being someone's "experiment". Usually this is said regarding a Unicorn-Hunting couple where the wife has recently discovered that she might be bisexual. The Unicorn-Hunting part is the deal-breaker for me, not the "experimenting" part - I'm totally up for that! (Been there, done that, got in line for the ride again!) For me it is a lot of the same reasons that newbie poly isn't a problem for me - I take people as they come, and relationships as they go. I am not looking for anything in particular so I have no expectations to get hung up on.

Funny story - my now-husband/then-boyfriend originally hooked me up with my long-time (26 years?) FWB VV because he knew she was looking for someone to "experiment" with. (I found this out YEARS later - I didn't know I was her "first".) Well, the experiment was a raging success! (PS. We 3 are going to her wedding in Vegas later this month!)

I have to admit that I think I would have a lot harder of a time dating someone who was questioning their gender identity - as this is something that I have no experience with.

Hmm, I think the people who say they will not date a poly newbie and/or a man with a nesting partner have had bad experiences with those situations so have simply vowed never to do it again. Seems reasonable.

Certainly - our experiences shape who we are! I have been incredibly fortunate to have had relatively few "bad experiences" in my life (not just relating to relationships, but life in general).

For me, I want to date someone who is inherently non-monogamous (or inherently not into traditional monogamy), someone who has always felt that way. That's just the type of philosophy that would be compatible with me. So, a poly newbie wouldn't interest me unless it's someone who just recently discovered the terms/labels but has a longer experience or affinity for the concepts, if that makes sense.

That makes perfect sense.

But, anyone I am meeting socially knows that I am poly and partner(s)ed (what's the plural of partnered?) - if they are all "Wow, I could NEVER do that!", my reply is "Well, then it is a good thing that no one is asking you to!" It's a non-starter, I'm not trying to "convert" anyone.

Like, on OKC I get messages from guys who are like, "Wow, my wife of 10 years and I just discovered the idea of poly and opened our marriage!" and I'm not interested. I can already tell we have nothing in common.

Well, I would say they might have an untested "affinity for the concepts" if they got far enough to have the "let's open our marriage" conversation. Just having "poly" in common though isn't enough. Truth is, I don't like MOST people, so if think there is anything about the situation that has potential - I'll probably at least talk to them (if only in a mentoring "you might want to consider these resources" kind of way - which may be why I find OKC exhausting and only do it in short stints :rolleyes:)

See, now this is something I can absolutely agree with. Every relationship IS different, because not only is each individual different but because the combination is different.

Hear, Hear!!!

That being said, I wouldn't expect stuff like a veto or certain types of issues with people who have been poly for a while. To me, it's not about having a roadmap into a specific relationship but rather just about being able to avoid the newbie issues.

Fair enough.

While I do think that a veto is a generally bad idea, and a phase that many new poly relationships break over, I wouldn't rule out someone just because they currently have a veto in place if they are, in fact, on a learning curve that will likely eliminate that down the road. I think it is highly likely that, if I were going to be vetoed, then that would happen well before I was invested in a relationship (which takes me a LONG time).


Also, I am indeed one of those people that falls hard when I catch feels. While I do connect with people on the friends/FWB/play partner level if that works, once the romance gets in I'm down for the count if we're hitting it off. So I don't want to take the chance of being crushed by something I should have seen coming, if that makes sense. The first "poly" relationship I had caused me so much anguish while I was trying to figure it out that I spent more time recovering from it than I spent in it (total, not even against happy time :p). So I think I likely come at it from a different side of things.

Well, we ALL come at it from a different side of things, because we are different people with different experiences and preferences and everything!:D Knowing who we are and where we are at and what we struggle with helps us make the decisions that are right for us as individuals.
 
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