The “sex positive community” has become quite negative

We could say, "People who are displaying some behaviors in common with those on the spectrum of narcissistic personality disorder."
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We could, but the actual wording was "narcissistic psychopaths" - two diagnoses that were hopefully used in hyperbole. I understand the need to vent frustrations, I just think taking it this far is not useful.

And again, if you can't access something like this, be proactive in creating a more diverse community. Start a casual meet up group and book a large Airbnb once in a while.
 
SEASONEDpolyAgain said:
bushwickdaily.com

Hacienda Villa: Brooklyn's First Sex-Positive and Polyamorous Community Is in Bushwick | Bushwick Daily

“Hacienda is a social experiment designed to celebrate sex, educate the curious, and dispel shame.”
bushwickdaily.com bushwickdaily.com

Read this, and then read the comments.
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Roberto
3 months ago
Reply to Mainichi

We’re late to the comment party, but this is on point. We are a couple of therapists who actually live in Bushwick. We’re both professionals, make a good living and have a sex-positive practice in Manhattan. Our membership was recently denied last year without explanation. What they don’t know is that we applied at the same time as another couple we are close with.

That couple was automatically accepted. Our friends are white and very fit. We are a Filipino couple with very average bodies. Hacienda is not a “sex positive community” it’s subsidized prostitution and the rumors of abuse and inappropriate behavor at their parties are expanding continually. Andrew Cray (the so called founder), and Elizabeth Pelletier (who is in charge of admissions) are racist bigots waving a progressive flag for show.

Any organization that needs “diversity” coordinators usually has a big discrimination problem. I know, I used to work for large corporations on this subject.

We feel like we dodged a bullet. I feel this place is going to be on the news in the next couple of years for human trafficking or some other shady dealings.
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This (and all the photos on the website and on that article) quite reminds me of two cults that ended up abusing women badly, with their leaders disgraced and one in jail: One Taste and NXIVM.

It all starts out as fun and games and lots of sex for young pretty "alternative" people who like to do yoga, try kinks and party, and ends up just one more abusive nightmare run by a heartless selfish narcissist, with thousands of lives completely ruined in the aftermath.

I watched both documentaries: Orgasm, Inc. about One Taste, and The Vow, about NXIVM, in the past year. I don't think there is much controversy in calling the leaders, Nicole Daedone and Keith Raniere, narcissistic psychopaths. The OP may be thinking of them when she is calling the leaders of Hacienda those epithets, whether there have been medical diagnoses or not. She interacted with them. We have not.

It's all too easy to manipulate progressive naive young people by tempting them with unlimited sex. Thousands of people gave over their entire lives to these cults and we have to be aware and vigilant about it. They are using the terms "ethical non-monogamy," free love, female empowerment, etc., to hook and use people and make the leaders rich and able to get pleasure out of actually abusing women (and some men, but mostly women).
 
I bet a lot of the people they let in do feel empowered. These places only work over the long term if it does as billed for a sizeable number of the clientele. That's the same for the places I went to. One of them was also involved in a big scandal where a guy serving at the club confessed he was trafficked from Mexico aged 17 but by this time he was an adult.
 
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Magdlyn said:
Yeah, that Hacienda place does look like a swinger or kink club, with an "atmosphere of beauty." Even though they say they accept people of all ages and body types, obviously that's a lie. The group photo there is full of people who all seem to be under 40, and everyone is draped all over each other, wearing sexy fetish gear, like they're about to engage in a big orgy. That's not polyamory to me.

I've been actively poly since 2009 here in Massachusetts and I've only engaged with people in perfectly (contemporary) traditional dating ways, chat online, meet for dinner, maybe sex on the second or third date if there's a click. I've had a few threesomes and one foursome, but only with people I knew quite well and trusted. My one-on-one sex experiences far far outnumber my group sex experiences.

I've never belonged to an irl poly community, although most of my friends are queer and poly just because we share those qualities. I've made my friends one by one, not by joining a big readymade group.

I can see why a place like Hacienda would end up with sexual abuse in its ranks. It's the perfect place for predators to go for victims.

I once dated a guy who had been into the "kink lifestyle" when he was younger. After we'd been dating a while, I agreed to go to an actual kink club with him in Providence RI. While they were happy to take our money at the door, I found that only the younger people were playing, flogging, fucking, and the older people were standing around fully clothed, talking, and just watching the young people out of the corners of their eyes. My partner and I went to a semi private room to have a little fun. No one offered to join us. A couple people watched and cheered us on a bit. As we left, the owners asked if we had fun, and after we unenthusiastically said yes, they told us it was an "off night." Hmm...

Polyamory isn't a "lifestyle," (we don't need or want code words like swingers and kinksters seem to) and it doesn't imply group sex, or going to clubs to "discover your sexuality" (as Hacienda's page says). You can be asexual and polyamorous.

The fact that you said you and your husband, "we," had a profile, implies that you're thinking with a swinger mindset. You might be unicorn hunters, expecting to find a hot bi babe to share. I'd recommend dating independently. Of course, women will get hit on more often, but it's just as hard for women to find a proper partner as it is for guys (because most guys that hit on poly women are just looking for an quick hookup). Men need to write really good profiles, have several well-shot pictures of themselves, and be caring, interesting, good listeners, and charming when they first start chatting back and forth.
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Whoa! That’s a lot of assumptions in one paragraph. Unicorn hunters? The people in the ENM community we dislike the most? And you are also assuming that my husband isn’t charming or has a crappy profile. I’m glad we don’t know each other, let’s keep it that way. Continue your gate keeping duties.
 
Polycouple69 said:
Whoa! That’s a lot of assumptions in one paragraph. Unicorn hunters? The people in the ENM community we dislike the most? And you are also assuming that my husband isn’t charming or has a crappy profile. I’m glad we don’t know each other, let’s keep it that way. Continue your gate keeping duties.
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That was all suggestions, you made the assumptions. Mag was trying to be helpful. It’s too bad you don’t see it that way. Please take what you like and leave the rest behind. No need to get snarky.
 
Unicorn hunters? The people in the ENM community we dislike the most?
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Oh, we do? I recognise that there are often problematic behaviours regarding unrecognised power imbalances in couples "looking for their third" but it's just so common now there's no point taking the time to dislike them as a category. Once in a while, on this forum, we attempt to point disillusioned unicorn hunters at resources that might illuminate for them why they keep striking out, or their relationships fail pretty early on, but most of the time they post their ads in our Friendships and Dating section and since this isn't actually a dating site, we never hear from them again.

Triads are obviously a legitimate form of polyamory, the most successful ones have already worked through their power and privilege. They are more and more popular in the media, especially for younger Millennials/Gen Z, and just maybe the knock on effect is that there will be more single women making the informed choice to seek out couples to for such a relationship, eventually making the unicorn less rare and the triad a more sustainable relationship shape for those that deeply desire it.
 
SEASONEDpolyAgain said:
It's for queer people, and they want to keep it that way, so yes, if you're AMAB you're more likely to get in wearing a little black dress than a cis woman. Gatekeeping at queer venues is actually an interesting topic. The ethics of it. I find European venues far more unapologetic about their standards than American venues.
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So, if you passed inspection and got into this club for queer people, are you only allowed to have gay sex, or would they kick you out if you had sex in a way that could be perceived as too heteronormative?
 
SEASONEDpolyAgain said:
If the people are queer, it wouldn't be hereronormative. So moot question
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It is not a "moot question". I didn't say it would BE heteronormative. I said it COULD BE PERCEIVED as heteronormative. I knew you would play games with my words. Stop being deliberately obtuse. Just answer the question. So a gay man and a lesbian woman could have PIV sex at this club and not be kicked out? That requires a "yes" or a "no".
 
ref2018 said:
It is not a "moot question". I didn't say it would BE heteronormative. I said it COULD BE PERCEIVED as heteronormative. I knew you would play games with my words. Stop being deliberately obtuse. Just answer the question. So a gay man and a lesbian woman could have PIV sex at this club and not be kicked out? That requires a "yes" or a "no".
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Why would they if they're both queer people? People who aren't the same gender or agender can have sex. It's just people who don't appear queer cannot.
 
SEASONEDpolyAgain said:
Gay and lesbian usually refers to a monosexual orientation.

As I said, if they got through the door, they can have whatever sex they want. Only visibly queer people get in.
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I guess if a penis-having person who is a transwoman or non-binary put said penis into the vagina of a person, transman or non-binary... I doubt it would actually look hetero if this happened though.

I once met a cis guy at a transgender health conference in Philadelphia who told me he and his transman partner always ended up doing sex the "conventional way," PiV.

I'd have to make sure to dress butch to get into this club of which you speak. I'm pan and non-binary but I often wear femme clothing and I'm pretty curvy and have long wavy hair. I don't like sex clubs though so it's all moot. I'm too demisexual.
 
Magdlyn said:
This (and all the photos on the website and on that article) quite reminds me of two cults that ended up abusing women badly, with their leaders disgraced and one in jail: One Taste and NXIVM.

It all starts out as fun and games and lots of sex for young pretty "alternative" people who like to do yoga, try kinks and party, and ends up just one more abusive nightmare run by a heartless selfish narcissist, with thousands of lives completely ruined in the aftermath.

I watched both documentaries: Orgasm, Inc. about One Taste, and The Vow, about NXIVM, in the past year. I don't think there is much controversy in calling the leaders, Nicole Daedone and Keith Raniere, narcissistic psychopaths. The OP may be thinking of them when she is calling the leaders of Hacienda those epithets, whether there have been medical diagnoses or not. She interacted with them. We have not.

It's all too easy to manipulate progressive naive young people by tempting them with unlimited sex. Thousands of people gave over their entire lives to these cults and we have to be aware and vigilant about it. They are using the terms "ethical non-monogamy," free love, female empowerment, etc., to hook and use people and make the leaders rich and able to get pleasure out of actually abusing women (and some men, but mostly women).
Click to expand...
This is a great analogy. Thanks for your insight, we might use it to help some people.
 
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