The story of Spork.

[JaneQSmythe]

Have to go back and read the last few posts - but I had to stop and say that the "You're poly and bi - so why won't you give me a TRY?" is a meme that needs a name. Because...I DON'T WANT TO! - and that should be enough of an answer. I am allowed to want what I want when I want it.

For me - it is actually not that hard, relatively speaking, because while I do have trouble "saying NO" in some instances (unrelated to relationships or sexuality) - the reality is that I am an introvert (unlike you) and don't give two fucks what most people think of me.

Lotus's husband, TT, was actually GREAT about this - "I want to fool around with you but I don't want to be romantic or have anything to do with your penis." "OK, I can do that." Never a problem.

Dude is actually terrible with this - I want to cuddle you and be sexual but don't want to have sex or interact with your penis. "How about now? now ? NOW? NOW?" - Nope, still not interested in genitals and if you keep asking I am gonna get seriously pissed off. It has been a serious learning curve for him. (As an aside, I really liked Reverie's recent post about how she can be sexual with Rider without ever taking her panties off...Ima gonna go tell her!)

 

[Spork]

Well, thing is, I am very into being a masochist and a bottom, and I love many sorts of play. And mostly it isn't sexual. Except when it is. But I don't think it's proper to consider it a sex activity by default.

I actually almost raise an eyebrow at the designation of "kinky" and it as one's "sexuality" when I think about so many of the experiences I have had. Is getting a professional massage automatically a sex act? I don't think so. Having someone who is really good at it, set me on fire, zap me with electricity, flog me or pour wax on me...especially at a party where it's maybe a bit easier to keep those boundaries clearly drawn. Sure, they are seeing me with no clothes on, but I think we're past that being a big deal. No one is touching anyone's bits or bobs, so yeah...not really sexual.

But I trust some tops to really keep sex out of it...the ones who are in high demand for their specialties and service top a LOT, the guy who will flog ANYONE because he just likes to do it. As opposed to the guy I flirted with heavily (pretty much offered him a sexual interaction, which he didn't want THEN but is kind of interested in NOW)...who does the things because they are part of his sexuality and who is not very experienced in just service topping. That guy? I don't know...I am shy of him "getting ideas"...

I went to a discussion group, a new one, yesterday. It's about effective communication. We talked about how hard it can be to establish and defend our boundaries. That as women, we're trained to not say no, or to give "soft no"s instead of just being definitive about it. A number of women, even Dominant ones, said they had trouble with this. We are actually going to do a whole session on it, and practice firmly saying NO to each other.

As for the weekend stuff, I ended up not going to either of the play parties. I didn't feel like driving to Denver, and I didn't feel like doing play without Zen, so Friday night I went to the other stuff....social gathering at Voodoo, and First Fridays for a minute to say hi to some friends. Saturday I did my laundry and watched Aliens and Aliens 3. *sigh* I love H.R. Giger so much. One of my favorite ever artists, really.

Yesterday was weird though. I am normally not easy to offend. But I do have my triggers. There are certain areas and concepts that are sensitive for me. And the recent Trump debacle has pushed some of my buttons. I finally reached a point where I simply couldn't deal with it anymore, went on Facebook, and told my friends that for the first time ever, I will remove friends over this. Mainly my issue was...I don't give a damn who anyone is voting for, I don't want to know, it's none of my business...but anyone who says that this is what "all men" say or think when women aren't around...can just frankly fuck right off. I have struggled my whole life with the idea that no man can ever actually love me, that male love is a lie. Men only know how to use, not to respect or love. Because I see men, every man, as a PERSON. A whole entire person. Not a life support unit for a dick. I've been told and told that I was stupid to think a man could be my friend, they all just want to have sex with me. I finally realized after so many years that my ex husband told me that because he wanted me to stay away from other men. He was asking me to defend HIS PROPERTY from the interest of other men because he was AFRAID of them competing or taking me away. It took me a long time to realize that other men, my friends, did NOT see me "that way." HE DID. He saw me as an object, and was scared another PERSON (man) would steal me. Well I am not with him anymore. And I know how Zen feels about me. And I know that my friends...lots of them had the opportunity to turn up the heat and try to get laid, and while sure, a few were interested and bold enough to try, not many. Out of the ones who were previously my FRIENDS, almost none. The way Trump talked about women? That is NOT what all men think. And any man who tries to tell me that sadly that's the reality we live in, all men think and say those things behind my back, HE is specifically telling me that HE has said and thought those things. HE does not get to speak for all men. He can only speak for himself, maybe his buddies, but mostly, himself. Which means, that THAT guy in particular is not my friend.

But doing this...getting all upset on Facebook and unfriending people...not something I tend to do. And part of me is screaming "WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?? You made a fuss! You've upset people! Go delete it, quickly!! Troublemaker!" No, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to sit down and take this any more.

 

[Spork]

You know what is awesome?

More of my male friends on Facebook have posted things like, "Um, I'm frequently in locker rooms and no one talks like this. The guys in there are talking about sports usually." or "No, all men do not talk like this, but sure, we've all heard it. It's that ONE GUY and nobody likes to listen to his shit. He's generally some half drunk sweaty dudebro in a polo shirt whose entire understanding of women comes from porn, and he's talking big because he thinks it makes him cool. He's a douche and the rest of us know it. We usually laugh at him when he leaves." That's the kind of stuff I'm seeing quite a bit of. I had to unfriend 3 people. One of them started my entire reaction by (aside from being in general a REALLY vocal Trump supporter all the time) posting the video where Scott Baio tells women to "grow up" for not appreciating this kind of talk... Congrats, Scott, you're That Guy. Another one came on my thread with the same "all men talk this way" spiel. No, they don't, you don't represent All Men, dude, only yourself, and congrats...you are also That Guy. And a third I'd meant to get rid of for being disgusting a long time ago, but had kept him on my list because he actually made vague threats against a friend and I wanted to keep an eye on him. Well the need for surveillance has long since passed I think, so time to jettison that garbage scow.

Three "friends" gone. Good riddance.

Many more rejecting the Donald's desperate "Heyyy all guys talk like this, amirite? Guys? Ya'll got my back, right? Guys??" Nope. Sorry dude. They do not.

And you know, honestly, I don't care if men I like have said things about women. I have too, jokingly, said really tasteless shit around the appropriate audience. I've been asked if it bothers me that men might see me and "think thoughts"...no, as long as they ACT RIGHT to me then we can be decent respectful humans together in the world here. What I object to is anyone saying that it is normal, that all men, do not respect women as people, and see women as only commodified sex objects. That would then mean that any man's love or affection for any woman is a complete bullshit lie. And one that women maybe ought to wise up to and stop participating in. ?? I don't like that answer. I don't think there's a lot of happiness in that answer for anyone.

If men don't like "feminazi man hating" and want women to actually raise kids with them, love them, partner them, give affection, and be part of their lives, then they had better fucking not be all "grab em by the pussy" when they think and talk about women. Not in a real sense. You cannot expect someone to give you good treatment if all you have to offer is shit. That is just Human 101 for chrissakes.

I've had a time trying to explain to Facebook, that this has nothing to do with "language" or "words" or jokes or fiction or even actions. This has to do with IDEAS. BELIEFS. With a normalized mentality. And yeah, hate to go there, but yes absolutely it's a finger on a tentacle of the many headed beast that is "rape culture"...the reality where a boy can destroy a life (doesn't matter, not a person) and it's "20 minutes of action" and people will actually cluck over HIS life potential being harmed, and he can get away with it. Where no matter how solidly proven a rape might be, people will STILL be trying to argue that somehow it just ain't so, or it's not that bad, or maybe she lied, perhaps she asked for it, etc. There is REAL FUCKING HARM to real people underneath this attitude, as spoken by Trump, and people are seriously thinking they might just go on ahead and make him our President.

Well...people are gonna make their choices based on their own reasons. A lot of those reasons are good, even if I don't agree with them. That wasn't ever what this was all about.

So anyhow. "Not in my locker room" has outnumbered "all men think/say this" by a long shot in my social media. I think that's pretty cool.

In other news...

Like some of my fellow bloggers, my social life is a busy one this week!

Sunday was Effective Communication discussion group.
Yesterday was Slave Hearts discussion group.
Today I spend the evening with Zen (Yayyy!)
Tomorrow, too. (Also yay!)
Thursday is Switch discussion group.
Friday is Game Night at the club (non kinky games, like Cards Against Humanity.)
Saturday a play party.
Sunday a pyro workshop.

So lots going on...

Oddly I still haven't figured out what I'm doing for Halloween. I'd really like to find some kind of a costume contest event for teenagers, to take my teenagers to. Maybe I should host one at Old Wolf's house... He's said he's not doing anything, though, so I couldn't count on any help from him if I wanted to. I'd have to drive across down to decorate. So probably not.

Hm. Hm. Hm.

 

[Spork]

I am wishing happy good lucky vibes at my Zen today, he is going on a job interview. He can't stand his job. The hours are unpredictable, there's more lifting involved than he should be doing, and the conditions are just generally not the best. The only big benefit of his current job over this other opportunity is location, his work is right now close to home...this job is across town.

This however opens up some new possible considerations. My gut has been telling me, with regard to the question of "move in with Zen, maybe?" that I should wait...not just wait as in wait to move in with him, but wait to make the decision. I sat and thought and wrote out pros and cons and talked to my mother and pondered and wondered... And my instincts (which are quite good usually) said, "results inconclusive. Wait for further data."

Well I am NOT breaking my lease and I've got until like late March or April 1 or whatever before it's up. I'd need to decide...60 or 90 days before that, because they offer their best rent prices as an "early bird" thing. So no decision is necessary until at least the end of this year, possibly later than that.

But now we've got "further data" coming in, which is that Zen MIGHT end up working across town, and my kiddo Q now wishes he lived closer to his high school. Both situations could be accommodated with a move to a certain area. What bugs me is the unpredictability of the rental market. We would need to rent a house, and there aren't ALWAYS suitable options on the market. And I don't have the flexibility of going month to month.

Well. There are still pros, cons, and questions without good answers. Fortunately being a military wife gave me some experience in not knowing what might happen, and living with some ambiguity in my future plans, and trusting that things will work out, since they always have.

So. Positive thoughts for Zen in his job interview, plz and thx!

I just wish I could see him, because he looks really nice in his suit!

 

[Spork]

This morning, I saw a post on Facebook from a friend, who said:

"And just like that I'm left with a world of memories rattling in my head that I can't escape. They used to bring happiness, but are just painful echoes now. Relationships aren't worth this. There is really no point. Not if everyone is just considered expendable and forgettable in the end anyway. We are a society made of paper dolls."

And in the comments, responding to a friend of his,

"It ended well. But it still ended."

This brought to light a huge difference between me...and everyone who is not me. Apparently. Or at least people like this. My ex suffered from similar stuff, anger that what he had expected to be a "forever" thing was not, and that women don't seem willing to camp out in your cave until one of you dies, which leaves him feeling cheated of something he felt was his due.

I don't expect forever. I've said it before...I don't really believe in it. I see it like, we have this span of time, we get, to walk this awesome path. And along the road we can have adventures, and companions in our journey will be with us for parts of the road, but not the whole thing. And we should be very grateful for every traveling companion who consents to walk by our side for however long, because they bring color and light and a new perspective.

To me, the idea of sitting in the same home, with the same person, staring at screens or repeating the same routines, day after day, for 50 years or more, is insufferable. But people don't seem horrified by the stagnation of this. They seem to see it as some sort of a goal. Reach this destination and then you can stop striving. Will you also stop growing, learning, improving yourself? Well sure because you have the "luxury" of this captive audience who is somehow obligated by your entitlement to be your LIFE PARTNER for-EVER. What? No. NO! That is insane, to me, it sounds like a prison.

Especially if either of the people is barely an adult when they undertake this. I mean, your brain is physically not done growing, and you figure that you and your partner will continue to be compatible for a LIFETIME. That's just not right.

I think and hope that with the right partner, we can walk hand in hand for a good long time, and I think how wonderful to be able to do that because you want to...not because you feel driven by need or desperation. Not because the kids need two parents and you can't afford to live on your own. Not because you're afraid of being unpartnered. But because both of you CHOOSE THIS out of loving and positive feelings for one another. What a miracle! What a wonder.

I can say that when it comes to Zen...the way I feel right now is ^this^ kind of positive. I think it's too soon to think seriously about commitments, but if I feel this way still, next year or the year after... I could see this being that happy choice, and today...I hope we have those years. I actually feel, while neither of us would have been right for the other in earlier phases of life perhaps, I wish that so many of the good things I have seen and done and experienced were gifts I could give to him, to share with him...and since that is not a possible thing, I hope I am able to make lots of good memories with him. I know he is all about "being here now" and not grasping at the past and the future. But if we get to have a future, well...I'd like that. Today-Spork says, you know, that sounds really nice.

But of course even that is not FOREVER. And to me it seems so...profound. Like I've been granted the greatest gift, that I'm allowed to hope, that I can choose someone and they'll choose me and we'll be together for a nice long time. What I'm saying is that I cannot imagine the mentality that assumes that's how it is, or feels entitled to it. That "OK, I've got you, so now you're mine forever." and one doesn't feel they have to continue being worthy of their partner, it is taken for granted they will stay for good. To the extent that if the partner chooses to leave, it is considered a grievous WRONG. The assumption that a properly done relationship lasts "forever"...just because.

Not celebrated. Not nurtured. Not earned or appreciated. As one day follows the next with the same old routines and everything turns grey and brown and dusty. Just because. And that is happiness? One is supposed to want that? It feels like a waste of perfectly good life, to me. Life is meant to be lived, not endured in a dim prison, with or without a cellmate.

Since the only times I have felt deep and exciting connection to another person, they did not return the feeling and it ended before it got serious...and THIS with Zen is the first time ever that I really believe we're both "all in"...he isn't the only one who feels like they won the lottery. Only, I'm the one who has been standing in the convenience store getting covered in bits of silvery crud from scratching tickets, and he's been the one sitting at home analyzing the odds and finally decided just to go ahead and buy one.

It is fall, it finally feels like fall here. The leaves are turning. And it reminds me of so many memories. Fall has always been a season that I feel things about...I remember feeling the excitement that was school starting and Halloween coming. I remember being a teenager and feeling this undercurrent of unknown adventure...I wanted to get out and own the night and be cool and spooky in the dark or something, but I didn't know just quite what it was I wanted to do or how to do it or where anyone went to be that cool thing I wanted to be so badly. It's like how as a kid, I'd see water and it filled me with primitive joy, what did I want to do, swim in it? Drink it? I have no idea! I felt almost a reverse-nostalgia though, that when I was grown up, I was going to do so many things. I couldn't wait! And I have. It took me until my thirties to really start doing the things, but man have I ever. I've worn cool clothes and I've traveled to cool places and I've spent time with cool people and I still go to really cool parties. So now I sit and remember, and I remember being that girl who was looking forward as I am the woman looking back. And for me, fall is when I feel that way the most. Of course, too, I have lived in enough places where winter is a hardship, that I also feel a bit of sadness that summer is ending and winter is coming.

We are not a society of paper dolls. We are living things enjoying our seasons. But summer doesn't last forever, eventually we are all dry leaves dancing in the wind. That's beautiful too...but I think we ought to all enjoy our lives while we've got 'em.

I think of so many things I hope I can do with Zen. I would love to walk in the fall leaves, play in the snow, drink hot chocolate together. Escape to a mountain cabin for a weekend, sit in a hot spring. Comfort his troubles, and celebrate his victories. But you know, I am so incredibly lucky, and I'm thankful for every moment of every day that he is in my life.

 

[WarMan]

To the extent that if the partner chooses to leave, it is considered a grievous WRONG.

Thanks so much for writing this. I've never understood that mindset.

 

[Spork]

Oh for pete's sakes.

I'd posted another thing about Trump. Mainly about how he really isn't the business genius people think he is. My ex (Old Wolf) came along and tried to argue with me. His main point is "liberals are sheep who only pay attention to what the media tells them to, and Hillary is gonna steal the election and get us into a war with Russia that will flatten us." My argument was, if Trump were talking about no fly zones, and Hillary were saying "I dunno, maybe we can be bros with Putin, you know, I'm not sure if Russia is all that bad..." Then conservative Trump supporters would be screaming that she was sucking up to America's enemies and Trump was being properly "tough" and doing the right thing threatening force.

I am concerned about Russia, sure. But I'm pretty sure I owned my ex in the argument. And then. THEN.

The Worm King showed up.

And he is a liberal, and he cussed my ex out on my facebook, while I sat here half stunned and wanting to burst into hysterics.

I don't have enough popcorn to watch two...frenemy-ish...ex...something or others...have at it over politics on my page. And when the Worm King messaged me to apologize (...?) for cussing out my ex, I told him so.

And he's like "wait...we're frenemies? Have I ever been rude to you?" Like he got all defensive. Dude are you even serious?

It's a trip, it's like...he does this thing. This is the thing, that he does. He picks up women, usually ones who are right out of divorces or relationships, and has sex with them very quickly (he's pretty persuasive and charismatic.) And over a period of weeks or months, gradually distances himself, all the while saying "we'll get together soon" which is generally untrue. Eventually the women get over it, but we all end up still social media friends with him somehow, and it's like he NEEDS these women to continue to be his friends. He reaches out on rare occasion to "ping" us and make sure we're still cool with him.

It is SO damn weird!

It has been asked, why I continue to be friends with him. I can now say with no question, that I actually do find his personality interesting enough to want to keep tabs on him. He's odd enough to be a curiosity, and smart enough I do enjoy the occasional...chat?...on Facebook. And I'm so far removed from my hurt over being pushed out of his life, especially as in love with Zen as I am...that it's not a factor. Like I don't NEED to forget he exists. It's ok. He's over there, I'm over here, no emotional skin in this game anymore.

Even the part of me that was willing or interested to see him again started rapidly vanishing about the time my friend told me she knew two other women who had the same experience with him. It was a weird but important kind of closure to KNOW that there wasn't anything inadequate or wrong with ME, that this was just Worm King doing Worm King stuff. There was not anything I could have done to get a different outcome. It's how he is. That kicked the legs out from under investment my ego had in the situation.

The ego, is not the amigo.

So that was...fun? Can't wait for my ex husband to see those posts, I wonder if he'll argue back. Fucking weird, is what all that is. Weird as hell.

Fun stuff this weekend! I think I'm gonna go to Game Night tonight. There are a couple of other parties going on but I'm not really interested. Then there is a play party tomorrow night, and pyro in Denver on Sunday. Family stuff with kiddo in between, soccer-momming and so forth.

Starting to figure some stuff out for Halloween, too. I think I'm gonna take my boys, and any friends who can or want to go, to ALL of the haunted house attractions in the city. And maybe some kind of a hay ride thing or two. Since Old Wolf isn't cooperating and I now live in an apartment, we'll go out and find Halloween...

 

[Spork]

Yeah so it was already silly, when I had Old Wolf and the Worm King arguing politics on my Facebook...and then my ex's somewhat egomaniacal friend showed up to back him up and it was like the setup for a joke, I swear.

"A narcissist, a sociopath, and an egomaniac walk into a bar."

And Spork STILL does not have adequate popcorn for the situation.

So. I wound up going to Game Night on Friday and playing Cards Against Humanity with a bunch of friends there. There was a woman who had not ever played before, and she was reduced to helpless hysterics over a few of the cards. It's funny how having one person completely losing it can make everyone, especially as it gets later and people get punchy and tired, laugh more. We all had lots of fun and stayed up past our bedtimes.

Saturday night Zen and I got together at Voodoo for a play party. Did a lovely impact scene, not TOO heavy, but certainly good, and very enjoyable. Then yesterday he came over and I made steak and we watched some Lewis Black standup he had on DVD and an episode of American Pickers. We'd wanted to use the hot tub, but it was closed for maintenance. Oh, well. Another time!

He's going out of town to see his Dad soon. I'll miss him, but it's a busy time for me...I imagine it'll go by quickly enough.

 

[Spork]

It's all relative...

I had spoken to my Mom and others about the notion Zen and I have kicked back and forth that we might live together at some point.

Mom freaked out and said it was way too soon. Others have said same. Oddly my ex says I should go for it. But I think that despite me repeatedly telling him it ain't gonna happen, he is hoping I'd rent the house from him. He also thinks it'd be a keen idea for him to meet Zen and I do not think so. I don't really know what's in his head sometimes, and it makes me nervous. I used to think I knew him really well. But I'm suspicious of his motives these days.

Anyhoo. Zen and I have known each other a year as of July or August of last year (I can't remember for sure but it was the first Friday of one or the other of those months that we met.) We have been play partners over a year as of September. And we will have been lovers for a year, in just a few weeks.

Also, any change that would maybe happen in my living situation, would not be until next March.

So "too soon"...? What is too soon? I'm posting on a thread about PhysicsIsPants and FieryFlames and their living situation, I think they said they moved in with a woman after being involved with her for six months? For me, that'd be too soon for sure.

But a year and a half?

*shrug* I told Zen, and it's true, that I have worked out a lot of pros and cons on paper (actually on a spreadsheet, because that's how I roll)...but ultimately nothing there was strong enough to shove me to one side or another of a decision. So I consult my gut, and my gut tells me to wait and see. That more data will come, and my choice will get easier.

I can say definitively...

If Old Wolf is able to refi the debt he owes me and pay it off, I'll be more inclined to consider moving in with Zen. It makes my $$ situation less sucky if that happens, and that IS the plan, but plans aren't reality until the approvals are in place.

And if Zen got a job in a different location, I'd be more strongly inclined to consider a move. If it would improve his commute. Right now he and I both live VERY close to our workplaces. A move to another part of town would be inconvenient for both of us, and options in this area up here (in our size and budget range) are limited.

I'm encouraged by the fact that there do seem to be a number of suitable rentals on the market at any given time that I've looked. I think my biggest fear would be to plan to move in together, and then give notice at my apartment to not renew, and the time comes to seek housing and there's nothing on the market that suits our needs. The rental market can be pretty unpredictable, and good rental homes tend to get snatched up fast.

It's a weird near-secret, but I absolutely LOVE being domestic. Doing the "happy home" gig. It's the Capricorn in me (or it's not, whatever.) I like keeping the place nice and the dishes clean and putting up a Christmas tree. A harmonious, peaceful, and happy home is vitally important to me, and I am damn good at making it happen. Zen is already really good at showing appreciation for what I have brought to his life. If we lived together, for less money than what either of us is paying right now, I could show him all the benefits of having a woman like me around, I keep thinking.

Well there is still a tiny part of me that is scared to say stuff like this, because the love feels so amazing to me that I'm afraid I'll come off as "too serious" or demanding things (totally not!) and spook him. But I don't realistically think I will. Or rather I think if he needs me to slow my roll, he'll say so. Therefore this is an exercise in not being scared or timid...in daring to dream out loud.

But, then on the other hand, my apartment is pretty cool. Q is thinking about working at the Safeway across the street, and it's nice to have the hot tub available. I take nothing for granted and what I have is pretty nice. I'll be ok however it all shakes loose.

Oh, one of the more PERFECT houses I have seen on the market, with rent less than what either of us is now paying, also basically has this damn near right in the backyard...within an easy walk anyways. (Garden of the Gods park, though possibly not this exact vantage.)

http://www.larsleber.net/p681503714/e23197136

 

[GirlFromTexlahoma]

I don't get people thinking a year plus of dating is "too soon"... But then I'm all about the domestic bliss myself, so possibly biased

I will say that I would be nervous officially moving in with someone if I didn't already have a lot of practice sharing space with them day to day. Like I could not go from spending one or two nights a week together to signing a joint lease. Andy and I had spent every night together for six months before we decided it was probably time for me to give up my apartment. It was a nice way to make the transition. By the time we were officially cohabiting, we were damn sure we could deal with each other's routines (and snoring, lol!)

Not sure how feasible that is with a small apartment and a kid, just thought I'd throw it out there, since it's what made the Big Scary Decision easy back in the day.

 

[Spork]

I don't get people thinking a year plus of dating is "too soon"... But then I'm all about the domestic bliss myself, so possibly biased

I will say that I would be nervous officially moving in with someone if I didn't already have a lot of practice sharing space with them day to day. Like I could not go from spending one or two nights a week together to signing a joint lease. Andy and I had spent every night together for six months before we decided it was probably time for me to give up my apartment. It was a nice way to make the transition. By the time we were officially cohabiting, we were damn sure we could deal with each other's routines (and snoring, lol!)

Not sure how feasible that is with a small apartment and a kid, just thought I'd throw it out there, since it's what made the Big Scary Decision easy back in the day.

Well I think we'd be looking to get enough space so that we could each have plenty of room, and we might even maintain separate sleeping areas. Thing is, we don't always sleep well in the same bed and at some point, getting a good night's sleep has got to be a priority, y'know?

But we went from being fine with seeing one another 1-3 times per week...like, a dedicated evening at his place, meet up at a party, and lunch during the week...at the beginning, to now what we're doing is more like 3-5 days of the week, and seeking every possible opportunity to get together. I adjust a lot of my calendar around his work schedule because I want to spend as much time with him as I can.

If anything I feel like living together would make it easier to spend time with each other, which we both seem to want to do.

I dunno. There are lots of pros and cons to the whole thing. Honestly, probably the biggest con for me, the one thing that makes me very hesitant to do this...the only thing that makes it a Big Scary Decision...

Is the fact of my financial situation.

I mean, doing this would be a good financial move for me, and for him, we'd both be paying less than what we do now and we'd be getting much more. But I have bad financial baggage that means I don't operate with a safety net. Like, if a life crisis like losing my job or something happened to me right now, I might be sunk. That is bad and I want to fix that, but I can't at this very moment. I'm carrying risk. And I don't feel ok asking Zen to share in that risk. Like I actually struggle with the feeling that I am an unworthy partner because of my messiness in this regard. I say things like, "I wouldn't date me." And it's true.

Honestly I wanted to be a lot more financially secure before I ever divorced my husband if it had to come to that. None of that went the way it was supposed to.

But yeah, that's the Big Scary to me. It's not living with him or whether we'll get along or whether he and my kid will do alright, I'm the ultimate peacemaker and he could never be worse than my ex. I fear nothing in any of that.

So really it's just...waiting, and trusting that ultimately Zen does know what my situation is, and he can decide if it's worth the risk to entangle with me, even if I haven't got my baggage properly stowed here.

 

[Spork]

I just figured something out. One word that describes how I feel about the stuff I wrote about.

Protective.

I'm protective of him. Even from myself.

Hm.

 

[Spork]

Zen is off to see his Dad.

Mentioned to him about the subject matter of the last couple posts from yesterday, last night. Mentioned I had seen a really cool house on the rental market for a good price. It's what I refer to as "house porn." I love looking at house listings anyways. There have been times I have, with no plan to change my circumstance, looked at house listings just for fun. In this case the only practical purpose of it is to have an idea of what the market is like in case we did decide to get a place together in the spring. But I'm not getting too invested in that as a plan. I mean, it's tough to explain that I'm not pushing this like I expect things, when I think and talk about it a lot. It's really more that I love to have something to obsessively think about and "plan" as though I'm planning for real...but I'm really good at rolling with whatever comes, in terms of actual happenings. I think on my feet and adjust my plans usually quite well.

I just like to have something to ponder. And I like looking at house porn. It is better than getting mad about politics. A much better subject to contemplate. So I look at houses and imagine in my mind, how Zen and Q and I might fit into them. Looking at this last one, it had that lovely basement with the fireplace and everything, and I was totally imagining having kinky sex with Zen in that room, I will not even lie.

What I remember doing actually, and have not done in a while...I used to love looking at historical homes in Virginia. There was a time I used to really hope and wish I could live in my home state again. And I love the old houses. But I've learned an important thing...that I truly connect with a place through its people. If I feel like I've got some good community, I can be at home pretty much anywhere. When I found the kink community here in the Springs, I felt so much more at home here. When things started going dramatically sideways with the GWAR community, and with some of my blood family, in Virginia, I began to have far less investment in the idea of ever living there again.

However...now I dream of taking Zen for visits, to show him the cool historical stuff, and go spend time at the Outer Banks. I miss the beach. It's been since 2012. That's too damn long to not see the ocean. With Zen's affinity for water, I like to hope he would appreciate the peace and calm and sheer relaxing harmony of listening to the waves and the gulls. I've been told, "you know they have recorded tracks you can listen to, of the ocean"...psh...that's not the same. Not remotely the same. And he says he would like to see the Wright Brothers stuff out there. He is also interested in aviation. Might have to hit the Air & Space Museum, much as I loathe DC, going anywhere near feels like a huge hassle. Might make it work out if he wants.

Still more reasons I wish I had my financial house in order, and I'm restless and fussy over the fact that I do not. I want to get on with making memories and experiences with Zen. Wish I'd never spent money sharing my life and times with anyone who didn't appreciate it. And there were sure people who were willing to go along and make me pay for everything, but bitched and moaned and ruined my trip. My god how amazing it is, to have a love who knows how to appreciate good things!

So we went for dinner last night, and then watched "Wishful Drinking"...a DVD he had of Carrie Fisher telling her life story more or less, which I guess was a Broadway thing, anyways it was really cool. He loves human stories, I do too. He is a sensitive and sentimental soul, and I love him for it. Well of course I do, and listen to me go on. I've told my friends you know, that I am insufferable about Zen. I'm sure. I don't know how anyone listens to me.

So. Then instead of watching the truly insufferable stuff, the damn debate (ugh)...we spent the balance of our night indulging in one another. I feel so tuned to him. My body, sure, but more...the part of the sexuality that is more the domain of the spirit. I respond to him, powerfully. So much more than I ever have to anyone. Partly I'm sure it's just that he is a very, very skilled and attentive lover. But on a day like today, I feel infused with a kind of love-energy. This is what sex should be like. And I feel like a novice myself, though I've had plenty of partners in my past, I have never had anyone or anything like this.

So. I must now endure some days without my Zen. I hope his Dad is doing well. I admit to rather selfishly hoping that his Dad can hold out on his own for a few more years, until I can get Q raised through high school. I know this Sword of Damocles is over Zen's head that he might have to pull up stakes and go to Phoenix to live if his Dad needs him. I'd never argue with the rightness of that. But after I'd thought about it, I realized I really need to keep my son here and in the same school if I possibly can.

Just a few more years...

But I will take what I can get. And I'm thankful for it.

 

[Magdlyn]

I had similar factors in my decision to get a place with Pixi. I was also newly separated, when I met her, from a long term mono hetero marriage. I also was not financially wonderfully secure. Neither was she.

Of course sharing rent saves money. But when I met her I was still in my marital home (my ex had moved into an apartment in the next town). My kids were not independent. They were drifting between our 2 places. Then we sold the house, and I got an apartment, 20 miles away from Pixi. I needed to stay close to my marital town because one of our daughters was/is mentally ill and struggling with addiction and other risky behaviors at the time.

Also, Pixi and I couldn't really afford ($ wise) for me to move again so soon-- just the moving expenses alone. So we commuted 20 miles to see each other for 3 years. We spent, on average, half the week together. I liked having my own place, and I liked her being in Boston as my pied a terre for cosmopolitan adventures too.

But then she came into an inheritance, and finally we felt like it was time for getting a place together.

And it has worked out really well.

So, the wait one year until the NRE wears off is really a ballpark figure people here throw around. NRE can fade sooner, or later (hers for me faded after 3 months, mine took about 18-24 months). But our established relationship intimacy (ERI) has lasted since then. It's so strong.

So, I'd recommend you be in no rush. And I know you aren't. You know you come from a very fucked up marriage, from which you are struggling to heal. You know you value your independence and love your little clean apartment. You know you are your bf's first relationship. He is so used to living alone.

You are both also figuring out how to do relationships. You claim to not be poly, but you both share kink in public. That seems to be going well, so far. You are getting more insight into what went wrong with your quad.

I know you feel you've known him a pretty long time now, but you're so deep in NRE, as you know... you can't stop gushing. The sun rises and sets in his eyes. I remember the feeling. It can take a while to really see and really experience a new lover's flaws, and learn to make allowances for them, and lives with them day after day. I remember it took me a good 18-24 months to fully see, and experience Ginger's flaws, and oh my god, were they bad. So bad, I was almost ashamed I had somehow overlooked them. A full blown Don Juan Narcissist, and here I thought he was just a casually charismatic pagan hippie! I found, as soon as I moved to be even near him (2 towns, 7 miles apart), never mind actually live with him, he felt he had me in the bag, and started to withdraw from me. I could not live with these deep flaws. He was barely human by any definition, just an excellent actor.

We can never predict all the variables and human failings, but I have learned to err on the side of caution.

 

[Spork]

Funny story, about that.

So I agree, Mags, and your post is so good and resonates well with me.

I talk to my Mom all the time. Sometimes she gives me good advice, sometimes terrible advice, but I know her so well that I know what is a postcard from planet Mom, and what is some good wisdoms I need to hear. And sometimes, like everyone and anyone might do, she just helps to make me think.

So I was on the phone with her, some few months ago, and gushing about how in love I was. (Hers has been the loudest voice saying, "slow your roll!" with regard to escalation.) She said, "So, he sounds wonderful, but what's wrong with him?" I was like excuse me and she says you know what I mean...no one is perfect, what are his flaws, what is wrong with him?

I'd given her all the pros, she was asking about the cons.

At the time I had a couple...one she dismissed out of hand (bit personal to share here) the other had to do with his tendency to stagnate a bit. Like he has settled in a job that makes him unhappy for a really long time, and he's lived in the same place a really long time and while he gets a damn good deal on it, there are some maintenance issues he doesn't want to bother the owners with because they give him such a bargain. So he is sort of holed up in this place, which isn't really a great place, but he has made do quite well because it is cheap. He had a neighbor who made him absolutely crazy though. He tolerates a lot, because he gets (I think) sort of comfortable in his rut, and is not very comfortable with change. He knows this about himself. Well, Mom didn't think that was a flaw either. She said that in fact for someone his age, stability was a fantastic trait that I should place a very high value upon.

OK. I see that.

I could not think of anything else.

Well...now I can. But the "cons" I see are still "he's human and I can deal with that" stuff. He's been a bachelor for a really long time. He had some alarmingly expired condiments in his fridge. I can laugh at this. But if we lived together....if I had a problem with that, I'd buy him some new condiments for crying out loud, it isn't a big deal. I actually find it a little funny. I'm like "honey you need a woman in your life, this mayo is old enough to be enrolled in preschool, alright? I think it is evolving sentience."

And I know that given our age difference, I am likely to become some kind of a caregiver at some point if this goes really longterm. And I may also face the end of his life and losing him, and the hurt of that. But in all the times I have loved and lost, it HAS been better than not loving at all...never have I said that it wasn't worth it, to have someone great in my life, because I had to survive them leaving it, under any circumstances. As for being a caregiver, I am good at that, and enjoy doing it. Just as I actually enjoy domestic stuff quite a lot, too. Particularly if I feel appreciated, honestly that's key to a lot.

Right now I haven't seen any flaws that really put me off.

Oh, as for the poly/not poly and play in public...I don't see the connection. Our play at parties never involves others. It's not swinger stuff. No one is allowed to be involved without our permission, which no one asks for and we don't give. We are in our own bubble enjoying one another, we just might have some wallflower voyeurs watching...which is fine with both of us. I'm usually the only one naked, and I'm the exhibitionist anyways. All of that is very typical of BDSM party behavior. Our scenes are our own.

My Mom also asked at one point how on earth I could make it work being monogamous, with my "BDSM family" if I wasn't allowed to fuck whoever I wanted. I was really confused by that question, I am not sure what she thought I was doing. No one fucks me at the parties. lol Zen beats my ass, and generally torments me in whatever way he sees fit, but it's not sex going on. Maybe she thought it was like a swinger party. I don't know.

Anyhoo. Yeah, I'm still gushy, still NRE-ish I guess. I feel like my energies are all full up and I'm glowing with happiness and love sometimes, after I've spent time with him. And the more I have him, the more I want him. Part of that is the phenom I'm aware of, that the more sex I have, the more I want...I know that's a thing. But I find it really easy to imagine enjoying more mellow times with him too, and I feel there is a good base compatibility to go on with there.

Really I'm not 100% sure I could come up with the costs to get us moved either. I've thought about that, it's kind of contingent upon a few agreements I have with Old Wolf regarding him getting a loan to consolidate his debts to me, and paying off some things...and I don't dare pin my hopes and dreams on that. So yeah, I'm thinking...dreaming even...but not in a very committed way. I won't experience disappointment if I stay in my apartment for another year.

 

[Reverie]

He's been a bachelor for a really long time. He had some alarmingly expired condiments in his fridge. I can laugh at this. But if we lived together....if I had a problem with that, I'd buy him some new condiments for crying out loud, it isn't a big deal. I actually find it a little funny. I'm like "honey you need a woman in your life, this mayo is old enough to be enrolled in preschool, alright? I think it is evolving sentience."

I know this is a weird thing to seize onto, but OMG RIDER HAD THE EXACT SAME FRIDGE. When I cleaned it out last year (or maybe the year before?), I found condiments there THAT HAD EXPIRED BEFORE HE'D MOVED IN.

In 2008.

He'd MOVED with expired condiments, and then left them in there. For seven years.

Chrissakes.

 

[Spork]

I know this is a weird thing to seize onto, but OMG RIDER HAD THE EXACT SAME FRIDGE. When I cleaned it out last year (or maybe the year before?), I found condiments there THAT HAD EXPIRED BEFORE HE'D MOVED IN.

In 2008.

He'd MOVED with expired condiments, and then left them in there. For seven years.

Chrissakes.

LOL!!! OK, well thank you for sharing that. I dimly recall a guy on some comedy show complaining about when he started living with his girlfriend and she wanted to decorate and she got rid of his stuff or whatever and I felt defensive, you know, like "I would NEVER!"

And then I saw the mayo and I was like..."do I say something?"

I'm really not sure that it's fair to refer to expired condiments as "vintage" there, guys...and I'm not out to "change you." Not really. But...I'm gonna laugh about this with the girls. I hope that's ok.

...

I love you Zen.

I only wish to save you. From yourself. And the sentient mayo monsters.

...

In other news, I voted today! But I didn't get a sticker. I had hoped there would be a sticker.

 

[Spork]

Today sucks because my stupid cat wouldn't let me sleep. My god he can be such a jerk.

He decided after eating half of the food I gave him at bed time, that he didn't want the rest, but at 2am he was still hungry and I should get up and give him some different food. Which I am not inclined to do, at 2 in the damn morning!

He was on the bed poking my feet with his claws. I'd kick at him, he'd run off, moments later he'd be back. I put him out of the room and closed the door. He scratched at the door and sang me loud cat songs until I finally got up at 5 and fed him.

I am so tired right now. So. Tired. Damn cat. Ugh.

I costumed up as a demon and went to a house party on Saturday night. I didn't play, and I went planning not to, which was all to the best since my costume wasn't one that came off easily. I have a top hat with big curling ram shaped black horns on it, and a vest I made with big spikes on the shoulders, black bat wings, a bra with skeleton hands sewn onto it and face prosthetics. I also have a cool thing I made last year for a photo shoot, I took a sort of nosferatu mask with a gory bloody fanged mouth and lower jaw, and I cut the jaw and mouth off of the mask and I sewed it to a pair of underwear. So I look like I've got a monster crotch. And I have made these weird leg things that have eyeballs on them and green and black monster hair/fur from a wig, they go over my boots. So in other words...I costume up really weird and really well. I was abundantly complimented on my appearance. And Supernova was there with his sub, who is also a friend, and I visited with them some. He's still shamelessly flirtatious. I'm truly not sure if it's a matter of play and fun between us, as it certainly is from my end...or if he sees me as more of a challenge since I'm not available. But while I am very fond of him and find the flirting to be fun, that's all he gets.

I am Zen's girl now.

And he's coming home tomorrow! I can't wait. Gonna go pick him up from the airport after work.

 

[Spork]

I dozed at my desk for 20 minutes, quite involuntarily, just put on my baseball cap so no one could see that I was nodding off.

I hope.

But after that I felt totally refreshed! lol

Bringing a train of thought over here, I get too intense about this to have it become the primary focus of a Fireplace thread. I need to be careful about that topic, the subjects of humanism, feminism, masculinity (toxic or healthy versions thereof) and etc.

So all of the struggling men who have got me talking to them online have dropped off the map except for one...and he's intermittent on Facebook, we're not in deep talks right now. I'm getting a bit of a break! Why, I am not sure, maybe because I don't tell them off, I get guys who are in difficulty and desire a bit of talk therapy...or a LOT of talk therapy...

They tend to be submissive men. They tend to feel rejected by women and society. They tend to feel that they are the victims of toxic masculinity, and hate themselves and that which is male in general, and want punishment by women for being men. They tend to feel alienated from normal culture and from the society of other men. They feel that expectations of being manly and/or being bullied growing up has contributed to their difficulty, and that they have and deserve the contempt of women...but they crave a woman to love and worship, and don't understand why they cannot get any luck in this.

One of them denies his submissiveness in the same breath as telling me that he hopes a woman will collar him and saying that he just wants to serve her.

Another one showed up at a discussion group once after a spate of talk online where I finally just suggested Voodoo to him... He showed up ONCE, to that discussion group, and that was IT. Afterwards, I wanted to ask what he thought of the space and if he thought he'd like to return for parties or anything, and with big weird eyes he kept demanding of me, "Do I LOOK LIKE A SUBMISSIVE TO YOU?? DO I? I am you know. Oh, yes. I am told I don't come off like one. But I am, I want a woman to beat me to the ground and I'd love to get a whole bunch of women in high heels to step on me and kick me. DO I COME OFF AS A SUB??" He seemed very concerned as to whether the imaginary neon sign over his head was in proper working order or something, I don't know. He vanished after that and I never saw or heard from him again. I guess he was disappointed that he went to the trouble of coming to the club and no gang of Dommes was waiting to beat him up.

Another man, a few weeks of conversation. He was socially isolated. I told him that I felt that might be contributing to his difficulties. That finding a partner might be easier if he went to parties or into his local scene (this was a talk on Fetlife.) He said he would, but he isn't comfortable around men. He feels very threatened by other men. He was a very smart guy and I felt he had great potential, if he got through some of his issues...and he is doing therapy, doing the work, which is promising for him. I tried to offer encouragement and perspective. He ended up eventually posting naked pics of himself and drawing my attention to them...my response was along the lukewarm of "very nice, I like your long hair." And then he stopped talking to me and disappeared off the map. Said that he was getting more upset being on Fetlife and not finding what he wanted, so he was leaving.
...ok...

Then there was InTheDark from here, whose wife was involved with a long distance Dom very much against his wishes and will, and said LD-D wanted HIM to abide by rules concerning the wife, basically to engage in a D/s relationship also, which he hadn't consented to. The poor guy let his wife and her paramours walk all over him. I talked to him for months, but he eventually disappeared too. I hope he's ok.

And there is the man I'm talking to on Facebook now. Sweet man, and downright brilliant. He struggles with some cultural expectations from the black community in his area and the difficulty of finding a good match for his sub interests, too. I think he's seen so much toxic masculinity, he's struggling against it, but feels that almost...inevitability, that it's what is "expected" of him.

Had a man (don't remember if it was ^ him or someone else) on FB mention that men are conditioned to not show emotion, that they are not "supposed" to cry or show weakness. I do not agree. My Sadist has his sentimental streak and frankly I feel honored to be allowed to see it. It makes me feel closer to him, it certainly doesn't diminish my respect for him one bit. He shared his humanity with me. How would I not want that?

Hm. This reminds me. I was at a class yesterday called "Defining your Dynamic." It wasn't very helpful to me, though it was good talky talk social time. Thing is, I have no idea honestly if Zen and I are really ever going to be D/s or not...or if I want us to be. I definitely have a strong enough personality that if we cohabitated, accepting a very submissive role to the extent that some do would be hard for me. In our intimacy, sure. But I feel we circle and balance one another, yin and yang as he says, and almost it's like, "You are amazing and I want to serve your needs." "No, YOU are amazing, I want to serve YOUR needs!" I feel devoted and adoring, but I get a lot of that same feeling back from him. And although he is top and Sadist, and in control, he fulfills me so completely that I really feel like he is in service to me, even from the position of top. Maybe we serve one another. And maybe that is good. But it doesn't feel switchy though. Just...it's all and both and neither at the same time, and it's gloriously good. And I would definitely wear a symbol of that, like a collar, to happily signal to the rest of our community that I am Zen's girl. But if he doesn't want to, that's ok too. Despite how I still go on about him (because he really is that special) some of the insanity of NRE is calming for me. But I feel good with this, I feel like something more comfortable and sustainable is settling in, still as full of desire but a lot less frightening somehow.

/end ramble

 

[Tinwen]

Thing is, I have no idea honestly if Zen and I are really ever going to be D/s or not...or if I want us to be. I definitely have a strong enough personality that if we cohabitated, accepting a very submissive role to the extent that some do would be hard for me. In our intimacy, sure. But I feel we circle and balance one another, yin and yang as he says, and almost it's like, "You are amazing and I want to serve your needs." "No, YOU are amazing, I want to serve YOUR needs!" I feel devoted and adoring, but I get a lot of that same feeling back from him. And although he is top and Sadist, and in control, he fulfills me so completely that I really feel like he is in service to me, even from the position of top. Maybe we serve one another. And maybe that is good. But it doesn't feel switchy though. Just...it's all and both and neither at the same time, and it's gloriously good. And I would definitely wear a symbol of that, like a collar, to happily signal to the rest of our community that I am Zen's girl. But if he doesn't want to, that's ok too. Despite how I still go on about him (because he really is that special) some of the insanity of NRE is calming for me. But I feel good with this, I feel like something more comfortable and sustainable is settling in, still as full of desire but a lot less frightening somehow.

I always think when reading your descriptions how your dynamics is close to my dynamics and how you have beautiful words for it. I do wear a collar and identify as submissive (and generally Idealist seems to enjoy being in charge in relationships more then your Zen does) but there's not much control going on on the practical everyday level and I keep my right to say no any time and I'm definitelly not a servant, and I relate to your description of the bond. To me too, I give my love and devotion and wish to have him happy and I offer my attention and my submissivity freely, and I feel his love and adoration for me and he offers me his attention and dominance and protection freely - it is energy flowing both ways, and it must be balanced to form a full circle...