The story of Spork.

Magdlyn said:
I really love Avatar too. I saw in in the theater, and recently it was on TV. Pixi and I have a big projector TV and it was just as good there as on a theater screen. I didn't see it in 3D.

We had planned to go see Rogue One on Xmas Day but it didn't work out. We got a rain check and I want to go see it very soon! I've been hearing nothing but great feedback about it.
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Honest opinion here...

I am NOT a Star Wars geek, as I've mentioned before, if anything I find the whole "light versus dark" and "hero gets the girl" themes to be simplistic and annoying (though they were not so heavy handed with that shit in this film.) My children liked the movies when they were little. I was ok with the first set, saw them a crap ton of times in life, so fine. Then that next trilogy...which, annoyingly and confusingly to me, as prequels, are called "the first three movies" (the fuck??) came out, and aside from the fact that Young Man version of Anakin/Vader is cute as all get out, in general I was beyond unimpressed. I don't give a damn if he's secretly a Sith or not, Jar Jar was the stupidest thing I've ever seen. But I guess if you're trying to rope in the age 3-5 demographic and sell them plastic toys...

I was so put off by those, that I didn't bother to see whatever the most recent film that came out last year before Rogue One. I just completely lost my ability to give a damn about Star Wars by that point.

So that's where I come from to the point of sitting in a theater watching Rogue One. And I was low on personal energy, so during a long period of relatively slow plot-buildup for like at least the first half of the movie, I dozed off several times, and came-to feeling that I had not missed anything.

But the end is great, and there are a number of scenes, characters, and technologies that do redeem it and make it a decent film. I really don't think it has the epic grandeur of the original three, I'm not sure they'll ever properly recapture that. But you get, on rare occasion, a whiff of it, like an elusive perfume... And there wasn't anything that Jar-Jar'ed me into any irrational urges to throw objects at the screen, so that's good.

It's a decent movie. Not the BEST MOVIE EVER, but pretty decent.

Movies I liked more, personally, in recent-ish years:
Avatar
Crimson Peak
Doctor Strange
Deadpool

(Note: I'm not a Marvel geek, either.)

But I am in it for the eye candy, more than anything.

This... Hellboy II: The Golden Army, I mentioned it, that is one of my favorite movies of all time. This scene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-rl8q9jezU

...with the Angel of Death, is what I want in a movie, Guillermo Del Toro's general creepy as fuck aesthetic, made perhaps more famous by the creature in Pan's Labyrinth (although frankly I found the Pan to be just as impressive as the Pale Man monster.) It's stuff like that, and other iconic imagery, that just thrills my mind. I could see myself crafting sculptures and getting high res prints of some of my favorite creatures and scenes from films. Heck if I were an autograph collector like Zen is...? But I would love to have sand worms from Beetlejuice protruding from walls, and I already own art inspired by the Dark Crystal.

That's it--That's it precisely, I grew up with Labyrinth, The Dark Crystal, and the Neverending Story, filling my mind with those stunning practical effects and costumes. That is the stuff I am nerdy for. It's frickin' magical, man!

And I don't know if it makes me kind of hipster-ish, but overblown merchandising is a huge turn off for me. The more cheap plastic junk I see riding the wake of a film, the more sick of it I get, quickly. And that's a tremendous reason that I have difficulty with Star Wars...even when I was a kid, it was all about selling toys and lunchboxes. It stops feeling like art, or just a good story, when you feel like you're cowering in the shadow of a tsunami of plastic toys, t-shirts, and Pez dispensers, commercial voices loudly demanding that you BUY, BUY, BUY!! ....ugh. No. Stop it.

And they did that to Doctor Who! Damn them for that! I like Doctor Who, but the fucking merchandise is out of control. Calm your tits, BBC America! Don't fuck this up for all of us!

*sigh*

It's one thing too that has challenged me as a parent. I'm burned out on the unnecessary consumerism. Have been for ages. I'm really glad that my older son is turning 18 and my younger son isn't far behind him. I've done my best with it, and I adore my sons, but it wasn't my dream to be a mother. I don't really feel like it's the pinnacle of what defines me. And it's one of those things where I put a lot of pressure on myself for a lot of years, to "give them a good childhood" by giving them a ton of stuff. Whatever they were into this year, come Christmas, I'd bury them in it. And it was a mistake. And I think I knew that when it was happening, too. But I didn't know how else to be, or what else to do. Had to make the magic happen and everything. Well, I'm not doing that anymore. I couldn't afford it if I wanted to. And I don't want to.

So anyways. Again, I ramble. Point is, I carry my feeling of being trapped and oppressed by mainstream American mass consumerism and instant-memorabilia-production mills as baggage into a movie like Star Wars, so I suspect that my appreciation of it is always going to have its limits.

But it was alright! I'd go so far as to say that it was pretty awesome for a modern Star Wars movie. *shrug*
 
I have a serious question for people. If anyone reads this, I would appreciate advice.

So I've got a van I adore. It's a 2002 Caravan nearing 200k miles. She is my baby, I've driven her all over the country, up and down the mountains, up and down both coasts. I love her. She has my children's drawings on the back of the middle seat, you guys. And GWAR stickers all over her rear end. She is MY FUCKING BABY.

*sigh* *sob* ...but....

She keeps needing work. I just ran up a debt that I can't repay getting the radiator (which was leaking like crazy) replaced. Now, this very moment, there is a puddle of either transmission fluid, or power steering fluid (can be basically the same thing) underneath. This could be a pretty expensive fix, damn it. I have no money.

My $$ situation is that following the divorce I took on more debt than I could really handle. But it wouldn't have done me any good to saddle my ex with it. Basically...I have the financial acumen to recover from disaster, and the accounts were in my name anyhow, so there wasn't much sense in trying to "nail him" for money he doesn't have and stick him with debt he can't pay. In the last month or so, it's become crystal clear for a number of reasons that I must declare bankruptcy. I haven't got a choice. Especially since there could be other defaults on the horizon from his end that I can only protect myself from, by doing so.

Declaring bankruptcy, and stopping the payments I'm making on the debts I would discharge (I haven't defaulted on anything yet) would save me $450/month. I'm close to the break-even point right now, but I can't make ANY progress on my debts...just paying the interest and treading water. They're all maxxed out. There is no refinance that would save me. The rates on these debts are not very high, but the balances are. They were got when my credit was very good, ran up as times got worse and worse over the last couple years... Anyhow. That's where it's at.

And I'm considering, like immediately after work, going to a dealership and trying to trade in my old van on a used car. The van is paid off, but she's gonna quit running if I keep this up. I can't afford the repairs. Then I'll be out of a vehicle and unable to get to work. If I do it now, before the bankruptcy, my credit score is at least "good"...because I haven't yet defaulted on anything. If I wait, I'll be looking at a seriously subprime loan.

Can I afford it?

Well...

I had hoped that post-bankruptcy, I'd have extra money to save up for emergencies, to mitigate some life risks, to afford to cover down on rent on a house if Zen and I moved in together and something went wrong. My budget is presently squeaky-tight...and this would eat my buffer, at least like a significant chunk of it. Not to mention that it could make it hard to save up the deposits as I'd planned. *sigh* DAMMIT. So if I wait until after my bankruptcy, I'd have trouble getting a loan, or face really shit rates on one, but I have to do the bankruptcy as soon as possible regardless to start saving for deposits, and to protect myself from Old Wolf's various defaults...

I really just don't know what to do here.

Hm...hmhmhm...

Known fact. My van is, now or soon, going to require repairs that I cannot afford. She's always been reliable, but that time seems to be coming to an end. If I wait, there is a higher chance that I'll hit that point where she stops running and I'm stuck.

It feels crazy to go get a car right now. Like I have no down payment and I'll have to stop making payments on my credit cards in order to afford the car payment and it just feels like an insane proposition. I think it's possible. It just feels crazy. I'm not sure what to do...

Thoughts anyone?
 
Would saving the $450 a month from debt payments allow you to save up enough money in a few months to buy a really cheap used car? That might at least buy you time.

Also, if you get a car loan and then declare bankruptcy, what happens to the car loan? Can you choose to not include that or does it have to be everything, in which case does the car get repo'd?

Before you make any decision it might be worth at least having the van looked at to see if the fix is, in fact, costly or possibly just a hose replacement or something cheap.
 
We declared bankruptcy (Chapter 13) back in 2013. My husband got a newer car right before we declared because the car he was driving would not last the five years it would take to discharge the bankruptcy. The new car loan was "rolled into" the bankruptcy just fine.

Saving up for a cheap used car for a few months might not be able to get you a car that will last at least five years.

If you declare bankruptcy, and you wind up needing a new car AFTER the fact, you will need permission from the court to get a car loan. A big hassle.

That has been my experience.
 
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I'm looking at Chapter 7, not 13. I pass the tests to do that. I've looked into it. I'm doing it with no lawyer, because I can't afford one, which means I've researched the minutia of the laws and rules...

The vehicle, either the one I have presently, or any new one I got, is an asset. There is a list of the value of assets you are allowed to "exempt." If you own more than what is in that list, you're expected to liquidate it to do what you can to pay whatever of your debts might be paid with that money. It would go to the trustee for distribution to creditors. Well I inventoried my possessions and I don't own above or beyond the exempt value. For a vehicle it is $3,000...BUT that is only the equity, and if I had a new car, I'd have no equity. Blue book on my old van is about $1,000 so I'm good there.

The car loan would have to be included in my report of all my debts, but I'm allowed to continue to make the payments and keep the asset and keep the loan. That is "affirming" a debt post-bankruptcy. That, I can do.

So I went to lunch, and I took my van down to my mechanic to have a look at it. This new leak today...not actually a big deal. I was wrong about what it was that was leaking, my coolant actually has a pinkish tint to it and that's what it was. During recent repairs, there was a hose clamp that wasn't tightened down quite tight enough. The guy showed me what was going on. So the immediate crisis is averted. Having sat and thought and ate some food and chewed the problem, here's what I'm thinking...

I'll get the bankruptcy done and I won't buy a new vehicle right now. I'll keep trying to get by with the van. I'll save my money and get my deposits and moving costs together so that Zen and I can move in together later this year. That's what I need that money for. And I need to save for emergencies. That is all after the bankruptcy is done. Thing is though...even right after a bankruptcy, there are places that will do "second chance" bad credit loans on cars. It's just that the rate would suck. So I'd have to refinance it as soon as my credit recovered enough, if it came to that. Otherwise...I hope I get through a few years with the van, and do what I can to rebuild my credit as I'm able.

It's damn tempting to go over to the dealership down the way tonight and test drive a car I like, and all, but my gut is telling me that getting another car loan if I can possibly avoid it right now is a bad idea.

At least my van is ok for the moment, thank goodness, and I didn't have to pay anything to get her sorted out.
 
It still upsets me to no end that I have to do a bankruptcy at all...I feel like I was so proud for so many years of being so in control, and then it all just went haywire and there was nothing I could do. It's infuriating.

But being upset doesn't change anything. So. Here we are. Doing what must be done, I guess. For now...
 
Well, I know filing for bankruptcy certainly upset US. I don't think the majority of people go into it with a sense of glee. I used to have a 780 credit score. Shit happens and you just deal with it.
 
I'm making peace with the idea of cutting my debt loose. Honestly letting go of the stubborn desire to find another way, to make good on my "obligations" (HUGE Spork thing, obligations...like if there was a small catalog of Very Important Words that shape and define my existence, that would be one of the top few) has been a mental exercise I have to get through before I can even put serious energy into Doing The Thing. I'm getting there. I should be able to put serious effort into it this weekend. I'm a little worried about doing it with no lawyer, but I can't conscience paying one. Might look into lawyers that are willing to do installments or something. It doesn't help that the paperwork is full of dire warnings about the consequences of trying to do this on your own.

I am having one of those mornings where my head is full of stuff. Words and thoughts spinning off in all directions. Once in a while a ball of sticky emotions would come flying in my direction and I'd dodge it handily and now I'm listening to my good music so I can't feel bad things. I only hope I can think coherently enough to write anything that even makes sense.

Gonna bust this ramble up into a few posts, because it's fucking stupid long...
 
Been thinking about value. How do we assign value to ourselves, to others? Why do I give other people the ability to affect my own idea of my own value? Should anyone have that right? Why is it so hard for me to hold my own concept of self worth, without looking for evidence to support this persistent suspicion that I'm basically pretty worthless? Where does that come from? I need to figure out a better foundation for why I Am Awesome, something I can point to and not concern myself about other people.

Like I made a list of things I can do, and yet I don't really do any of them consistently enough. I think my art is one of the coolest things about me, once in a while I produce something that is pretty damn neat. But not often. Should do that more. I have this feeling that I should put more of my own energy into the things that make me feel big, and cool, and strong inside.

I have to get away from what men think in particular. Lots of men have been willing, even eager, to get rid of me, to push me out of their lives, and yet for those men there were other things that mattered to them that they'd have fought not to lose. I've mentioned I've got a weakness around pornography. Well, I keep trying to pick apart the threads of that and figure out what the hell is up with this, why I've got a problem with it. Why it makes me feel bad. Setting aside certain present difficulties which have other, new layers... There is the fact that during my marriage, my ex lectured me on how I was boring to him, wasn't dressing up or doing exciting and different enough things, and with porn he could have whatever he wanted. Being put down about sex all the time made me want it even less, so our intimacy went into a death spiral within the first couple of years. So when I told him that we were at a crisis point in our marriage, he was perfectly willing to smash it to death with a sledgehammer, violently and frighteningly and humiliatingly.

Porn is valuable to him, he'd never give that up.

I was not valuable to him, he did give me up. Gave him half of my life, my youth, my childbearing, tried and struggled to make him happy, shut up about my problems and smiled and made everything all about him and gave him everything I could for 18 years, and it got me called a whore in front of my children, and menaced with a gun.

It was worthless, everything I gave. But two dimensional, dehumanized, women-as-sex, novelty and variety on demand? Now that's good stuff. Why have an actual human being when you can have that? If I'd been more like porn and less like me, maybe our relationship and family might have been worth something to him.

Every man I ever wanted to keep in my life who fucked me and then pushed me out...would have thrown an almighty unholy fit if asked to not enjoy women on a purely visual basis. It's worth more than me. And how not, I guess, because that is ALL the women, or at least a pretty infinite supply. I am only me. Can only BE me. Don't want to be two dimensional, or dehumanized. But...men enjoying porn is universal. Men wanting me isn't, and even when they do...I'm pretty disappointing. (That thought needs extra weight. I feel that I am disappointing. I feel that no matter what I do or how hard I try I'm not really pleasing, so then I'm like "why try? I'm no good.") So I'm letting the sexuality of men define a pretty significant piece of my self worth, or at least periodically and when feeling less confident, I'm letting this particular indictment stand as proof of my own diminishments of self.

I don't know how to solve this.

No matter how patiently others tell me that I shouldn't feel this way, the feeling won't stop. It's in there. I know it's not right. It's not reasonable. I've tried so hard to think my way through and around it. I've even tried to watch the stuff myself, hoping that exposure to it might desensitize me, and all I can think of is "That's what men want." That's what they want me to be, oh look, she's very shapely, much prettier than I am, and that's all that matters right?

And I like women, too.

But in porn it's like everything I love about people is stripped away. I can't engage with it. Part of it, is that I'm just not really visually turned on. I've got to really immerse myself in imagining the feeling of something, to be aroused by it. Seeing attractive humans does nothing for me. I don't see even a really gorgeous person and want to have sex with them, even if I can acknowledge that they are nice to look at. I've got to connect with their mind, voice, and ENERGY. Point to a stranger across a room and ask, "would you?" and I could never answer that. I need to interact with them first to know.

But then...sometimes... If I'm feeling really, really solid with Zen I think I CAN be ok with porn. We included it in our own play once and it didn't bother me then. He is the only man I've ever been with who could make me comfortable enough for that. He is the only one who has ever made me feel so safe, loved, assured. It's the sense of feeling confident in his wanting of me. But that is not by any means 100% solid, 100% of the time. When it is, though, that's as comfortable with that particular prickly idea as I've been able to get.

Thing is, I don't feel like I've got any right to ask for anything in this regard. I just feel like I've got to beat on my own brain with a hammer until I get my own shit under control here. It's wrong for me to feel hurt feelings and to feel inadequate, disappointing, and worthless, because men love pornography. Even if most men love it way more than they'll ever be able to love me. Or at least it turns them on way more. Another reason it pisses me off that I feel bad feelings about porn is that I want to be sex positive, and it doesn't seem to me to be very sex positive, to feel this way.

And it doesn't matter if I'm good looking or not, either. No one woman can be all the woman. I can't be infinite pure sex, nor would I choose to be.

I personally value myself for like a hundred other things I am and do and think and feel and...the whole person. I like my whole person. I just don't expect most men to care or be interested in that. I doubt any man's ability to be actually demisexual or sapiosexual at all. They like to look at shapely woman shapes and bouncy bits and hydraulic motions and what's in a woman's heart or mind doesn't matter that much in my experience.

Zen challenges that more than any other man I've ever been intimate with. because despite the fact that hey...it is a factor that I'm in the right age and body shape range for him...I do feel like we reached a point where we connect more meaningfully than that. At least I do provide companionship. Porn can't do that.

But anyways. Keep getting distracted. My morning brain. It's part of my weird feelings about it all, that I have my own value scale for how I rate my own worth and the value I see in other people. It's a complicated one. But I feel like the value scale in the minds of most men, which starts with a heavily weighted judgement of appearance, invalidates it. At least if I am relying on men (or any particular man) for love and validation. After all, if nothing else, if I'm using the male-driven value scale, the minute I gain weight, or have some kind of a health crisis like cancer or get older, poof there it's gone. Maybe I need to talk to Magdlyn more. See, in my eyes, (hi Mags, if you read this!) I have touched enough of her energy through her writing that she's a brilliant bright spirit to me, beautiful as can be, a sapphire of precious worth and age, hair loss, whatever, nothing can affect my concept of high value there, which is also tied tightly to what I consider to be "attractive." And...I'm just afraid that either I can't expect that kind of evaluation from others, or that maybe what's inside of me is just...crap. I don't know how others see me, beyond the most superficial of impressions. And I feel very much rejected and abandoned by anyone who had years to connect with me deeply.

Like, if being sexy and hot is the most important thing, but they have access to THAT dialed up to 11-infinity on a screen, then what value could I possibly have to any man? And then you've got like...situations with my friend, Supernova...he acts like he thinks I'm SO COOL, but he propositions me for sex constantly. I know he wants me mostly because I keep saying no! If I gave in, he'd hit it and quit it in a heartbeat. The fact that I don't want to...just makes him like and want me more! The fuck is up with that??
 
LAST BIT (sorry!)

I swear. There are times the whole business is confusing enough to make me kinda half-wish I could throw up my hands and go be a hermit, just me and my cat. But I know I'd hate that. I can hardly deal with like one day stuck in my apartment with no human contact.

So. Spork. What do you want??

I want to feel sexy to my partner in all of my three dimensional selfness. I want to feel like I "do it for him" in ways that aren't easily threatened by his interest in other women, visually or otherwise. And we do achieve that sometimes. I want to feel like I'm enough. I honestly can't wait to live with him because on a day like today, I'd stay up or get up, just to get a little contact after he got home from work. A hug, a kiss, a few moments looking into one another's eyes. Helps a lot when I feel a bit wobbly.

I think I might want to see a counselor. I'd like to figure out how to carve out some time for that. I'd like to figure out which bits are "Spork, you have baggage and Daddy issues and whatever and you need to sort your shit" and which are me having needs, feelings, or boundaries that I'm not respecting or honoring. Because make no mistake, there is that, too. We had our communications class on "how to say no" and part was an exercise where a roleplay partner would try to hug us, and invade our space, and we had to give a hard no, not a soft no, no excuses or reasons, we had to enforce our own physical boundaries and space.

I could not do it. I just couldn't. I'm adept enough in social situations of extracting myself from the presence of someone who bothers me, but not when it comes to being in any sense confrontational about my needs or boundaries, making any sort of a demand or standing my own ground. I fold like a house of cards. My only defense is to disappear or shut down. I feel I need to address this, because it's not a healthy relationship habit.

OK, enough ramble...sorry for the wall o' text...but I wanted to chew this stuff a bit while I'm feeling emotionally stable.
 
Spork said:
I know it's weird. It's hard for me to try and spell out why I've got such a discomfort. I try though.

That's just the thing, I know I would probably find you extremely sexy. And I am certain that your partners do.

I just have a hard time with an individual who would point to a computer full of porn and say, "This is my sexuality, it's how I am wired" and somehow supposedly want a real human. The phrase, "men are visual" bothers me. Like, sure ok you've got a lifetime of achievements and a whole story, nice, whatever...but liking what they see with their eyes, now THAT is what matters.

Why bother being real? And our culture is full of stories...the whole Westworld thing...what a glorious fantasy, convincing and sexy but not human robots, that a man might do anything he wanted to. Brutalize them, who cares! They aren't people. There is a part of me deep down that is wounded and saying, "you would like that, wouldn't you?" to the men of the world. Do they really harbor such a desire to cause hurt and harm? A wish to express sexuality upon an object, or a wish to dehumanize a woman until she IS one...and he need not concern himself with morals then, or compassion. It's all tied together in my mind. With the core concept being that men don't value women (me) as PEOPLE in the way that I value people as people.

There are these narratives, that are popular, that people...at least enough to fuel interest in such stories...enjoy contemplating. So they exist, they are there, and it's...it's a thing. I can't pretend it isn't.

And then there is, pushing hard back again at those frightening and threatening concepts, there is my every memory of Zen's eyes looking into mine, his laugh, his hands on me, his mouth on me, his body squished against and into mine. He does like porn, and he does like hurting me, but I do not for one moment feel dehumanized or objectified by him.

And again, this is probably why I find it safe to crack open my discomforts and try to figure out what in the hell is going on there, why, and how to battle it and hopefully lay it to rest, with his help. I don't like feeling so diminished and threatened by anything, and I don't like feeling so negative about anything sexual, whether it's part of my own sexuality or being judgmental about that of others.

Oh, and yes, it has a lot to do with being age 18-36, growing up and living so much, with someone like my ex. And he did love me in ways more complex than just defined by his sexuality, but I was only ever a cardboard cutout defined by his needs. His need for a surrogate mother is a big part of that, too. And I think there is more to it, too, that I won't get into here. It's complicated me stuff. Interestingly, my ex is hurt by the fact that I am NOT so shallow in my attractions and sexuality! He wanted to be wanted in a "you are hot and I wanna bang you" way, and keeps expressing confusion along the lines of why and how I didn't leave him for a "hotter" man. The only thing that makes sense to him is that I'd "trade him in for a younger, hotter model." I don't work that way. I've never worked that way.
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That in response to a couple of posts in Magdlyn's blog where she responded to my thoughts here.

I feel like at the same time as I am working through my own stuff, I'm struggling also to understand male sexuality, in the absence of the model I had to deal with for that, for so damn long. I don't have a lot of good male life-models, to help me understand how men tick, in my history. My own Daddy issue, that mine just wasn't around much. My parents didn't have a loving relationship at any time I can recall. My grandparents were nonsexual to the best of my knowledge and didn't even really like one another. I don't have many memories of loving, healthy longterm relationships among my caregivers and rolemodels in life. I grew up watching women work their asses off for men who didn't really like them but needed them. My family is full of badass matriarchs, and men who either took advantage or were indifferent or whatever. Honestly the phrase "man up" is kind of ridiculous to me. Because what I've watched, are women who step up and swallow their tears and their pain and do what has to be done. Selfishness was a crime if you are female, and expected as the rewards of life if you are male, in my worldview.

So what does this have to do with my issues around porn? It goes to that concept of trying to understand how or why a man loves a whole woman, an entire person. And why Zen is so different...because he is so appreciative. I am not used to it. I'm used to watching men use women, and being used by my ex. Overlay that with sexuality...a "healthy" (compatible) sexual connection is very important in relationships, I know men who would rather deal with a psycho if she's a good lay, than a kind, smart, great mother and partner...her they will cheat on, or leave...if the sex isn't good... And every man just loves porn, or almost every man (I've met like ONE who told me he refuses to look at it, because he thinks it diminishes a man's enjoyment of sex)...so if that's the way a man's sexuality is expressed, and sexuality is so important, it follows that the connection is not as desirable as the basic aid to physical gratification...just another use. Or no?

Zen asked me to define what porn is to me, before we try to have this conversation. As opposed to, say, erotic art (which I don't consider necessarily to be porn, though some of it comes close.)

I feel like what I consider to be porn, is actors pretending, it's stripped of its human spirit, art has a lot of spirit invested in it. The art he has, is a celebration of sexuality. Porn actors aren't celebrating sex, they're going to work to do a job. Strip clubs bother me in similar ways, and I've never been in one. Zen has. And it's another thing I'm probably going to have to learn to deal with if his friend's marriage falls apart...his friend will want him to go with him to strip clubs.

You know, maybe it's because when I think about it, I imagine men getting far more excited at the prospect of looking at strange women they don't know, showing their bodies and showing sex, than they do the idea of having sex with me. I've been rejected, turned down, and pushed away. But none of the men who ever did that would turn down the chance to look at strange women's private parts or watch them have sex. It's just more universally WANTED than love or sex or connection or whatever, with me. And so I come back to either, "that is what men prefer, sexuality with no humanity" or else "I am specifically and particularly not as desirable to men as dehumanized and visual-based sex. Either I'm not as exciting to look at, or more significantly once you add in my personality and feelings and SELF, all of that stuff is too much, it's a turn off, nobody wants to deal with that."

The 3D Person is too much. That's what gets rejected. The pussy doesn't. That's most appealing when it's strange. Every man who wants to "hit it and quit it" reinforces that. And the ex who simply refused to engage with the inner person and wanted me to be more like porn for him reinforced it. It's behind my need to be liked and my fear of being used, and the difficulty I have in being wanted sexually. I've felt like my body was wanted only if they could have it and use it without the spirit inside.

So I try very hard not to bother people with my stuff, assuming that's what they don't like. Entertaining stories, yes, when possible. Feelings...positive or negative...I try not to even feel, and I'm embarrassed when I do.

That stuff goes back further than the ex. That stuff is childhood stuff. Learning to be quiet and not cry. Learning that my parents didn't really like me much and I was disappointing. I needed repair, counseling, I wasn't enough like other kids, I didn't fit in. I was being rejected for who I was by the time I was probably 6 years old, I'd guess. My only goodness was when I could take care of other people.

Thing is, as heavy as some of this stuff feels, the fact is, it's so very "first world problems" of me. I mean, I had a roof over my head. I had food. I had clothing. I have grown up to be pretty functional, reasonably intelligent. I'm not addicted to anything, I've got no criminal record, I'm able to earn a living. Things could be so much worse, that I feel foolish for complaining.

I just want to figure out how to rewrite my code. Other people are ok with this stuff, it doesn't threaten their faith in love and connection. So...if I figure out what the root causes are of these issues, then what? Like I've only heard of these "breakthroughs" where therapists and counselors get people to dig back to the causation...not how you unprogram the thinking, make yourself not feel bad feelings about something.
 
OK so setting that stuff aside again for a moment. I had a great weekend. I spent quite a lot of time visiting with Fire and we did some hiking yesterday, which is something I've wanted to do. It was the first time I've exercised since I quit smoking and I was THRILLED about how well I was able to breathe and how breathing didn't hurt! Not even after trudging up a steep hill!

So that was super great. I'm not ready to try the Manitou Incline yet...

(from Google images)...

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/d1/c0/49/d1c04946d0bfa518995d6156eca5feb2.jpg

https://c5.staticflickr.com/5/4087/4964620596_781e330da9_z.jpg

http://americanexpeditioners.com/blog/manitou-incline/manitou-incline05.jpg

... But I'm definitely doing better than before, when I was a smoker.

Actually I think the Incline would probably trip my fear of heights...which is situational to the feeling that "I could fall." Like being strapped into a ride and going way up high is no problem, standing on a tall building behind a railing, no problem...but not being secured to anything and just being up high where I feel one clumsy move could kill me? Even if it's not THAT high up? Oh yeah, sheer paralytic terror.

So...yeah maybe not.

In other news... At the party this last Saturday night, I helped Fire with some electrical play, we topped a friend of ours who had never bottomed for anything before. He quite enjoyed himself. We were right next to another friend, who is known for being our very own Show Pony... OK so look, before getting to know him, and some others, I'd have rolled my eyes about people who dress in horse tack. Like it was somewhere akin to furries and to bronies, and ugh, I'm just not sure about all that stuff. So I started with an attitude of "your kink is not my kink" but this guy is just the HAPPIEST and most genuine and lovable person, and he's delightful when he's all pony'ed up and prancing around. Well, pony is a pretty heavy duty masochist, too. And he was taking some pretty serious genital torture, and screaming. And one of their friends over there was recording it and made a ringtone of it.

Later in the night, a few of us, including me and Fire, went sliding down the floor in our socks. Run, lock up the legs, and sliiiide... It was silly and fun.

And today we're having a CRAZY windstorm here in Colorado Springs. Like Cat 2 hurricane force wind gusts. It's so bad that my son's school district has cancelled bus service because of all the high profile vehicles that have blown over, and parents have to go pick up kids. So...I'll be heading out of here to go get him soon. My older son got out of school early because the power was out, and he walked home (to Old Wolf's house) and he's been texting me because there's quite a bit of damage to the house. Fence is blown down, garage door is blown in. Quite a mess! This morning I think the noise of the wind was scaring the cat, he was hiding in the bathtub. Either that or he was just hanging out in there because he's weird.
 
To some extent, for *some* men who like porn and strippers, the reason they would rather watch a strange woman have sex or look at a stranger's private parts than have sex with a real woman... is their own insecurity. They figure they can't get the woman they want, so instead of even trying, they watch strangers and get off that way.

That isn't true of *all* men who like porn. But it's definitely true for some of them, just like some guys frequent dating sites because they don't have the guts to try dating in real life.

And I think some like porn *as well as* sex with real women, because masturbation and fantasizing can be fun. Speaking for myself, sometimes I would rather masturbate than have sex with either of my partners, because that's simply what I'm in the mood for; I don't feel like interacting with anyone, I just want to get off. For some people of any gender who enjoy porn, it just serves to get them revved up enough to masturbate.
 
KC43 said:
And I think some like porn *as well as* sex with real women, because masturbation and fantasizing can be fun. Speaking for myself, sometimes I would rather masturbate than have sex with either of my partners, because that's simply what I'm in the mood for; I don't feel like interacting with anyone, I just want to get off. For some people of any gender who enjoy porn, it just serves to get them revved up enough to masturbate.
Click to expand...

This is how I've always thought about it, too. Watching porn is a very different experience than having sex with a partner, and both are enjoyable in their own right.

I'm sure there are some men who see women solely as bodies and objects. But those guys are assholes and not worth anyone's time. There are also lots of people (of all genders and orientations!) who want sex with real, complicated, flawed partners, but use porn as a substitute when they are between partners. Or when their partner isnt in the mood. Or as a way to get variety without actually sleeping with someone new. Or because they are too tired for sex with a partner. Or just to get some ideas for new things to try.

As for men caring more about a woman's appearance than the rest of her... Again, some do, and they are assholes. Honestly, though, I've seen plenty of cases where guys thought all they wanted was a pretty face and a hot body, but realized after a few go rounds that there is more good sex than objective attractiveness. Not to mention, spending your non naked time with someone dumb or annoying gets old fast ;)
 
That incline looked awesome from the bottom but made my knees go wobbly with the views from the top.
I quit smoking a little over 2 years ago, I know how tough it is. Good on you for making it stick.
 
I've felt some of what you describe feeling too Spork. I've been luckier with partners though and after a brief period when we had small children about ten years ago where dh was watching porn occasionally and it did mess with his desire for me we talked and both decided we wanted a satisfying sex life together so we would avoid porn completely for a while and see what happened. Well ten years later and we're still most happy having sex together daily and it's wonderful. I think some of its conditioning and training your brain to respond to certain things which sounds a bit clinical but seems to work for us.
 
Spork, thanks for sharing the info about your childhood. It helps explain why you chose to be promiscuous in your young teens, marry a sociopath at 18, and accept his abuse, and your role as his caretaker, for a couple decades.

I'd wondered why you chose to do that.

You're thinking in very black and white terms. Others here have offered nuanced ideas as to why anyone, male or female, would look at porn instead of having sex with another human.

I'd add something to the female "not being in the mood," as to why men use porn (or cheat or go to strip clubs, etc.).

I know from my own experience as a woman, and from now being in a LTR with one, that women's libidos vary more than men's do. Our hormones make us "in heat" during ovulation. Some of us are only desirous of sex then. Of course, this varies, but it's pretty common.

Then, we might also have lowered libidos during pregnancy, lactation, peri-menopause and menopause. And just from the pure exhaustion of raising children, and all the other stuff women do.

Men are much more consistent in desire. I think this variation in women's libidos is a reason polygyny was so common back in ancient times. (Of course many men still want a harem today.) Jewish law even prevented men and women from touching each other during menses, for a week to 10 days per month.

You ask how therapy could help... You suggest all you do in therapy is dig back to the causes, but not "unprogram yourself and stop yourself from feeling bad feelings." Well, the goal of therapy is to break down old worn out inappropriate coping skills and then BUILD NEW HEALTHIER COPING SKILLS.

And speaking of coping skills and therapy, many people use BDSM practices as a form of therapeutic healing. But perhaps you do not. Perhaps you do it merely to "entertain" people, instead of using it to work through old traumas, letting your old views die, and new ones emerge. Especially when you scene with your bf, who is a rounded human being. Or do you? Or could you do it more?

I wonder... you say you're an exhibitionist. Obviously from your words here, you want to be seen-- but not just your body, writhing under the lash, or lighting fires on people's skin. You want your inner spirit to be seen. You want to trust enough to show it so people can see it. You seem to have found a trustworthy partner in your bf. You, the student of life, were ready for a new teacher, and he was ready for you, after a monkish life. Of course, we can't get all our new life views from one person. You depended on your ex h for a certain way of being, as a long suffering caretaker. Now you seem dependent on your bf for a different kind of affirmation. Perhaps you could find more teachers, the more you allow yourself to be vulnerable and open up your armor and let your spirit shine.
 
Thank you for your thoughts! I love you guys. This site and its people, are wonderful.

And yes, Magdlyn, I most certainly have found a tremendous amount of healing and therapy in BDSM on a number of levels. Some of them I'm still gaining understanding of.

Another weird...Spork thing, though I'm sure I'm one of many in this...is that my turn-ons can be very compartmentalized from my thinking-self. I've heard people say that they have watched porn of things that they would never do, and fantasized things that they would never do, and I was that way for most of my life, I'd open up the mental box of fantasy stuff to get myself going, but then close it and never think about it, because I'd be ashamed or horrified by what was in my head that turned me on. The concept of someone that I turn to for love and affirmation, being blind or uncaring to anything further than skin-deep for me, is a hurt-feelings-trigger. A very sensitive one. But when we're talking about basic sexuality, I enjoy concepts of objectification, exhibitionism/voyeurism, even some degradation or humiliation stuff. But I have to be in a very safe-feeling environment to do anything with that. Of course, alone in my head, that's safe. I feel safe with Zen. I feel safe, to some extent, at the kink club, too, or around kinky people. Like... OK, so I feel like the people in "The Community" are somehow more enlightened about sex. I'm friends with them. We talk and hug and do discussion groups. I'm comfortably respected and appreciated there. So I could bare myself and expose my sexuality in all sorts of ways in front of that group and in that place. My boundaries, too, will be respected and enforced, if need be. I can let down the walls. Contrast that to, say, any given frat-boy general population group of standard issue males...or even ONE man, my ex husband... They will hungrily gaze, want, maybe even take, and then paint me (or any sexualized female) with shame over it all. Thinking about it makes me almost physically sick.

Like with strippers in strip clubs...men go, pay, look with hungry eyes, and then judge the fuck out of those women. See them as less, as broken, as things to use and throw away, damaged goods, and certainly never worthy of love.

During my promiscuous teenage years, I was very nearly flipping the script. I used to talk about "Mine" as conquests. Notches in the bedpost if you will. I acted like I was the predator, using them for my own desires. Actually I was also a weird sort of a Satanist back then and fancied that I was sampling their souls a bit, teenage high gothic drama of the 90's and all that. It made me feel powerful. They were not using me. I was chewing them up and spitting them out. With the exception of the few I wanted to keep, fell in love with...every one of those that turned from me only made me feel like my inner self was becoming harder and more jaded.

I settled in with my ex, because I figured that if it were impossible to have a relationship where both of us loved one another...if the ones I loved would never love me back...then it made sense to stay with one who would cling obsessively, who NEEDED me as a babe needs its mother, so at least I could count on his actions and assume he wouldn't leave. Be in control somewhat. I would cope with not having anyone to give my love to. Pack it away forever in a little box right along with my sexual vulnerability. After all...I was hard and strong inside, right? So I've been having to learn things and come to terms with even the notion of getting my own needs met in a relationship. Lots of stuff is new to me now.

So. My ex wants sex to be a dirty business full of shame, he does things now that for some reason he tells me about...well I know why. He's ashamed of the stuff he's into now, that turns him on, and he feels like with the things that I do, he can unload his filthiest secrets on me because I have no shame. He's right in that, I have no shame, but I'm squicked as can be at his. Not so much the stuff he's doing, but his self image about it. It smells poisonous. He actually hates himself for his sexuality. I don't hate myself for mine, I just don't want to be disrespected because of it.

So part of my attempted mental re-frame of the concept of porn, is my attempt to "flip the coin" and examine my own turn ons in all fairness. I arouse via fantasy, and sometimes I think of things that while I have come to a place of "actually I COULD do that" because I now (unlike during my marriage) know of environments where I could safely DO the things in my head, with people I trust, in a place I trust, where the culture is something I trust... Yet I imagine that just as I have my discomforts with porn, Zen has his discomforts with other men doing sexual things with me. One of my fantasies involves doing a scene at the club where I am blind and have no idea who is touching me, but it is basically anyone who wants to. (My ex would judge me SO harshly if he knew that was something I fantasized about, or would even maybe do.) I don't have to do it. I probably won't, because I don't think Zen would be comfortable with it. But I'm not going to stop THINKING about it.

So here's a thought. If Zen must deal with stuff in my head while we're together that maybe he might not appreciate much...there is that much more fairness in the notion that I need to get more comfortable with him enjoying porn and being turned on by it. I imagine that even though I'm not thinking of any one specific man besides my lover during sex, the fact that I'm thinking about some scenario involving being touched by perhaps many others, might bother my partner. In a sense I've been watching my OWN kind of "porn" during our sex more often than not, it's just in my head.

Oh, to come back to responding to particular points... I love to scene with Zen, but our work schedules make it tricky to attend parties together sometimes lately. We do when we can. We used to do far more often, when his schedule made it easier. But we definitely get up to a lot of pain-kink in private, too.

And I go to the parties even without him, and occasionally scene with others, but it's non-sexual stuff. And I've got some time in with Fire and she is a very affirming and validating sort of person in my life. We appreciate each other a great deal. My only issue there, is her husband. He loves me, and I am quite fond of him, too. But I've agreed to monosexualish behavior with Zen, at least not to share sex with other men. I made that agreement with no reservations, much as I like Hefe, and other men may have spots in my heart...I really feel no great desire to have sex with any of them. But I do have desire to have sex with other women. Yet I feel like Hefe might be unhappy if I am sharing sex with his wife and he is not able to share sex with me. I'd rather not do hurtful things to him. I know I could be all "could let this be his stuff to manage"...but I do care enough about the man that I don't want to rub his face in the fact that we're not a thing anymore like that. Seems...inconsiderate at the very least.

So frankly, I don't know what the parameters of a...thing...with Fire, might wind up being. I'm tentatively interested in exploring them. I think maybe private close "chosen family" friendship with both Fire and Hefe and others, combined with Voodoo-party-public ONLY sexual/kink contact with Fire, and maybe other women, might be the sort of thing that could work, if she were interested in it. I definitely enjoy doing electrical play with her.

I want more female love energy in my life. Just...don't want to hurt anybody to get it, if possible. And Fire is definitely someone I trust to help me talk out some of this stuff.

As to the whole "point of therapy" stuff...I'm just contemplating HOW one uses discussion to go further than deep analysis of issues, into the realm of resolving and healing them... I've never had therapy or counseling work that well for me. I'm trying really hard to at least do the head-work myself if I can.
 
Atlantis said:
That incline looked awesome from the bottom but made my knees go wobbly with the views from the top.
I quit smoking a little over 2 years ago, I know how tough it is. Good on you for making it stick.
Click to expand...

Thanks, by the way, to this post as well! I think I had to hit a "ready" point to quit smoking. I still vape sometimes, like a few times a day, but that's decreasing a lot, too. At one point, I went to my ex's house and smoked his cigarettes, a whole bunch of them, one day...it was in late November. Anyhow. I got this horrendous sinus infection. I was out of commission completely, feverish and wretched for a couple of days, and under the weather somewhat significantly for over a week. And STILL, my sinuses aren't fully recovered from that. And since then, if I vape, more than just a little bit, it sometimes will trigger bad sinus symptoms. I can get away with a few hits a few times a day, but not much more than that. And I can't smoke actual cigs at all, or I'm going to be in for some misery. My sinuses are pretty adamant that my smoking days are over and my vaping days are numbered.

Which is cool, since I only wanted the vape to help wean me off and decrease my feelings of panic at the idea of quitting and so on. I didn't want to trade one habit for another, in the long run.

Oddly it doesn't feel like as big a deal and a change to my life as I used to expect it would, or even as much as it felt like the last time I made a significant try to quit. So I don't know. I think I was just...ready.

..............

I'm seeing Zen after work today. And I am very glad of that. We did laundry together yesterday and watched an episode of Sherlock, and a movie ("Wings of Desire" which actually I thought was very cool) and partly due to where I'm at hormonally and partly just proximity to him, I'm full of all sorts of sex needs, so I'm counting the minutes until I can get out of here.

And my birthday is Thursday. I'm turning 38. My kid asked if we were doing anything this weekend for my Birthday. I told him, not that I know of, that I figured I'd take him down to his Dad's house and drop him off, for gaming and stuff, and I had some stuff with my friends I could be doing, but no big special plans. Fire says she wants to do something, but I'm not sure what she's got in mind.

Zen had some very cool intimate gifts (toys and things that had meaning to us in particular) for me last year, and he's helped with a situation that was stressing me out this time around, and hints at more tonight, though a gift of himself is what I hope for...17 minutes...

And I am REALLY into this song lately:

Vernian Process
"The Alchemist's Vision"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZxEzMZFBF4

And it's making me wish I could go all gothy and go to a club and get all stalky on hot women like I used to in like 1998. I need my top hat and my trenchcoat, DAMMIT! lol *sigh* Feeling spooky. And hungry...
 
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