Things have definitely gotten complicated

[purpleboots]

Hey folks! I'm back! I was here around six years ago in a horrible poly-hell situation that so many people helped and supported and advised me through. I'm currently going through an experience that's triggering a bunch of my baggage/trauma from that time and I just re-read that thread to try to gain some perspective.


tl;dr: of that thread: I was in a super toxic and disrespectful triad while pregnant and caring for my partner's three kids (four if you count the unborn one. Two mine, two from his previous relationship) while he focused on indulging in a new dysfunctional relationship and all its complicated demands. They gaslighted me and forced me to be the only one processing and actually DOING ethical non-mono, while they just did whatever they wanted and disregarded my needs. It was horrible.

But I got the fuck out of there and survived, thrived, started building my career and new life for myself and am now in the same home I've been in for just over 5 years with my kids, now 5 and 7 years old. I ended up in a very complex and ultimately exhausting friendship/nonsexual partnership with the older kids' mother for a number of years before I also needed to walk away from that for my own sanity. As my close friend who was there for me throughout all this drama has said, my turnaround time for shitty situations keeps getting shorter. Progress, I say!

Anyway, after rereading the thread from 2013 for perspective, I feel the situation at hand might benefit from the wisdom of you amazing folks.

However, this will be a long one, fair warning.

Backstory:

My partner (Kyle, straight man, early 40s) and I have been together for close to three years. I made my poly orientation clear to him from the start. He had several relationships in tandem to a very long-term one, and was receptive and accepting that I am poly and that's who I am, and we will cross the multiple relationship bridge when we come to it. We've had other sex partners, it's been no problem handling that. He is not live-in, or a parent to my kids. I have shared custody with Garth, my kids' dad. (Helen has been out of the picture for over two years now.) So in the times where I don't have the kids, I basically move into Kyle's house, so between 2 and 4 days a week, alternating weeks. He is with me at my home on Fridays and often on the weekends when I have the kids.

After shifting away from my relationship with the older kids' mom, my life has begun to revolve around social events with a group of friends I met through Kyle: M (single straight man, late 40s), R (single straight woman, late 40s) Dane (single straight man, early 40s). I have them over for dinner most Friday nights. We hang out in some configuration most Saturdays, have occasional overnights as a group at my cottage, or at Kyle's. Kyle, R, Dane and I have a weekly event we attend every Sunday night. We coordinate all of this through a Facebook group chat we all talk in daily. It's been like this for around two years.

Around 18 months ago, I developed a pretty strong crush on Dane, which I discussed with Kyle once I was sure it was a thing. Now Dane is a special character (and this is probably why I was so drawn to him) in that he's smart, funny, good looking, successful, the "whole package" kind of guy, who has only had one significant relationship in his life, around ten years ago. Why is he single? Is he opting to be alone, or is it something more complex? He's very private and reserved in many ways. Who is he, even?

Around six months ago, R and I started openly talking about him, his mystery, how attractive he is, acknowledged our crushes on him. He was fun to talk about! And here he is, one to four times a week, in our lives, giving us more to ponder, to swoon over, etc. It was always acknowledged that if either of us had a chance to 'take things to another level,' we would, but we never really thought it would happen.

But then, of course, it did. On 30 December we had our usual Sunday night event. R went home early. Kyle, Dane and I stayed late. Kyle wasn't staying at mine that night. Dane and I left together. I offered to share a cab home. He agreed, and since it was unusual for him to agree, especially since he's not really on my way home, I decided to make an attempt. I cuddled up to him. Leaned on him. He leaned back. We held hands the whole drive home, and then he bolted when we arrived at his place. (I mean, it was 3 am, but like, holding hands in the cab was a bit of a BIG deal.)

The next day, I asked if we could talk and decided I'd tell him about my feelings. He said he didn't think he could do poly, that he's terrible at relationships, that it would be a bad idea for me to get involved with him. Then we spent 3 hours drinking, and having a heart-to-heart, and ended up in bed having sex.

Everyone was coming over for pre-NYE party dinner at his place, so we cleaned up. Kyle, R, Dane and I had dinner, then headed out to the party.

Here, things got interesting. There are a lot of details I won't get into, because I'm already being insanely long-winded but basically he and I had a very romantic dance, and New Year's kiss. Then I told R via text what had happened earlier in the day. He was flirting with R super hard. She asked me if I wanted her to stop. I was like "No, have fun. Who even is he right now?!"

And. Then. He. Took. Her. Home.

What?

So the next morning, as she was arriving home from spending the night in his bed, was a whirlwind of processing for me and her. (Kyle was still asleep.)

I went over to see Dane later in the day to figure out where we stood and wtf was happening. He told me he'd like to try things out, take it slow, and then we went to bed and had sex again.

And then, he withdrew from everyone, almost completely, to process and figure out where he was at. He came out the other end of an agonizing week of processing for me, Kyle and R with a decision to pursue nothing with anyone. So now we're in this limbo where he can't deal, but is clearly attracted to both me and R, and everything feels hella unstable and up in the air.

All my competition for affection and emotional abandonment shit is triggered. I am only now feeling somewhat stabilized. I don't know how to lean in to this new paradigm of sexual tension in our group of friends. I feel still so deeply drawn to him. He has not talked to Kyle, his friend of over 20 years, about having sex with his GF. He doesn't seem to really know how he feels except RUN and 'Let's go back to how things were,' and 'This can only end badly.'

WHAT TO DO? Thoughts, anyone?

 

[GalaGirl]

WHAT TO DO?

You could do nothing.

Make a decision to stop.

Stop talking to R about how cute Dane is, and whatnot, so you aren't tempted to pursue him.

Stop sharing sex with him so you aren't tempted to pursue him some more.

Let this one go.

The next day I asked if we could talk. I decided I'd tell him about my feelings. He said he didn't think he could do poly, that he's terrible at relationships, it would be a bad idea for me to get involved with him.

He told you from the start. You did not heed his words. Then you slept with him.

He was flirting with R super hard. She asked me if I wanted her to stop. I was like "No, have fun. Who even IS he even right now?!" And. Then. He. Took. Her. Home.

Then she slept with him because when she checked in you gave her the green flag, rather than yellow or red.

He withdrew from everyone. Almost completely. To process and figure out where he was at, and came out the other end of an agonizing week of processing for me, Kyle and R with a decision to pursue nothing with anyone.

There you go. Don't pursue.

So now we're in this limbo where he can't deal, but is clearly attracted to both me and R. Everything feels hella unstable and up in the air.

The situation is not unstable. Y'all decided not to purse. It sounds solved enough to me. As for the feelings, give them time to pass. This JUST happened.

If he can't deal, that's his internal emotional management and that is for him to do. It's not your job to stabilize his emotions for him.

All my competition for affection and emotional abandonment shit is triggered. I am only now feeling somewhat stabilized.

That is YOUR emotional management to do. To calm, not get all up in competition with R, reduce triggery things, etc.

I don't know how to lean in to this new paradigm of sexual tension in our group of friends. I feel still so deeply drawn to him.

You could let it pass, ride the tension out as it dissipates, and let pursuing him go.

And in future, maybe decide not take up with "messy people" --- people are who too close, roomies, coworkers, friends, etc., for this very reason.

It makes things too weird, and then it leaves you without your normal social support group who would be there for you and comfort you if the breakup person had been someone else.

Be honest with your partner Kyle about all this. You slept with Dane, and then R did, and it's too tight/confined/weird, so you are bowing out.

Then let everyone else deal with their own emotional-management stuff, while you do yours. That's my suggestion.

GG

 

[purpleboots]

Thanks for your reply GalaGirl. I know this is sound advice and the right thing to do. Give things time to heal, move forward. I'm having trouble with the emotions in the *now* It doesn't help that there's still just lots of flirting going on. It doesn't help that letting go of him means taking a long hard look at all the things the fascination with him were distracting me from.

It may be worth mentioning that he initiated the going to bed together both times. That I wholeheartedly accepted his initial reaction to not pursue, but took these invitations it to mean his heart was saying something else. But now he's leading with his head, that's his right. I feel I really need to *understand* how he feels and why he made the choices he did. I don't think he knows, so how can he explain it to me?

I guess I'm afraid I'm just going to be tempted to keep the feelings afloat, I know he has feelings for me, but he's made it clear that for him they're not enough to risk making a mess of the friend group and all our relationships. I suppose that's fair. Rational. My emotions around this are not. It doesn't help to quell the emotions to be spending so much time with him, but of course I *want* to.

I'm worried about how to balance the hanging out all the time and sex-off-the-table with the very real possibility he will change his mind. This was SO out of character for him that we're all just really shocked and don't know what to expect.

 

[GalaGirl]

I know this is sound advice and the right thing to do. Give things time to heal, move forward.

Glad to hear you recognize that. How can forum people help you with your own emotional management?

I'm having trouble with the emotions in the *now* It doesn't help that there's still just lots of flirting going on.

Well... think about the behaviors.

• If you are flirting, you could stop.
  
• If others are flirting around you, request if they could please be willing not to do that in front of you for X weeks since you changed your mind, are bowing out, and feel weird right now.

It doesn't help that letting go of him means taking a long hard look at all the things the fascination with him were distracting me from.

So he was you escape fantasy from X? What's going on with X?

• You could address your X things.
• Or get a new escape fantasy and keep avoiding dealing with X things.

It may be worth mentioning that he initiated the going to bed together both times. That I wholeheartedly accepted his initial reaction to not pursue, but took these invitations it to mean his heart was saying something else.

That is him giving mixed messages.

• When people do that, you could think "This person doesn't know WHAT they want right now, or tell me one thing and do another. That could ding me. No thanks. "

But now he's leading with his head, that's his right. I feel I really need to *understand* how he feels and why he made the choices he did. I don't think he knows, so how can he explain it to me?

I think he already explained it to you. He said...

He said he didn't think he could do poly, that he's terrible at relationships, it would be a bad idea for ME to get involved with him.

• You could not look for secret meanings.
• You could take people at face value.

He was either being super honest. Or that could be his schtick. Be Mr. Deep and Brooding then "admit things" as a hook to have people come "rescue" or "bring him out of his shell." Which means he gets a lot of free emotional labor done for him.

Either way? He doesn't sound healthy to have romantic relationships with. So stick to being friends and that is it.

• You could decide to only date/hook up with healthy people.

• Since you were gaslighted a lot in your previous relationships, you could be SUPER picky and leery when forming new ones so it doesn't become "same old song, different day/person."

I guess I'm afraid I'm just going to be tempted to keep the feelings afloat, I know he has feelings for me, but he's made it clear that for him they're not enough to risk making a mess of the friend group and all our relationships.

• You could respect his limit.
• If you find him breaking it or edging around it? Call him on it.

Recognize that as him saying one thing (so he doesn't have to take responsibility later) and then doing another (which is hinky rather than forthright behavior and you don't need that.)

• You are allowed to have personal limits of your own. You could make some.
• Like "I don't mess about with hinky sounding people. Esp since I have past abusive relationships. I don't need new ones that mess with my head."

I suppose that's fair. Rational. My emotions around this are not. It doesn't help to quell the emotions to be spending so much time with him, but of course I *want* to.

Well, if you were getting a "love high" thinking about him, crushing with R on him and all that? And now you have to stop because things are weird and you are getting weird communication? Plus he was your Escape fantasy to not have to deal with X?

I could understand that this might feel like a splash of cold water. No longer gonna get the "love high." Might even feel some "withdrawal" while keeping away from all these mixed messages. And have to find a new escape fantasy or actually move on to deal with your load of X.

You will have to adjust your OWN behaviors.

Be ok with your emotions being wobbly during the transition time. All feelings pass -- whether fun ones or unfun ones.

You don't have to feel comfortable to be safe. You do have to be safe to be safe.

• Do NEW behaviors and allow time for NEW feelings to ensue while keeping yourself safe from any NEW hinky.

I'm worried about how to balance the hanging out all the time and sex-off-the-table with the very real possibility he will change his mind.

If he changes his mind, you have to share sex with him? You don't control your body and who YOU choose to share sex with?

It is possible for him to change his mind. And you don't.

• You could remain firm on stopping all this so it doesn't bring you a NEW load of emotional ugh to process. Because this first batch was enough.

This was SO out of character for him that we're all just really shocked and don't know what to expect.

All the more reason to maintain your distance even if it feels ugh/withdrawal right now to do so.

Those would be my suggestions.

Galagirl

 

[FallenAngelina]

All my competition for affection and emotional abandonment shit is triggered.

This is a great opportunity for you to develop security in something other than your relationships. Spiritual, emotional, physical health all begin in you. The last person who can give you emotional stability is this man - although he does give you a perfect opportunity to work on yourself. Relationships always reflect what we have going on inside ourselves. Don't struggle to figure him out, you'll get nowhere in a hamster wheel of anxiety. Keep your focus on making your own internal progress toward real and lasting emotional security in yourself.

 

[purpleboots]

Thank you both so much. These are all things I've thought and considered about the situation but hearing them from others really helps. I need to figure out how to get better at boundary setting. How to have higher standards in who I choose to be attracted to, or at the very least who I pursue that attraction with. I need to work on me, my self esteem, my own self respect. I can't spend so much energy trying to earn respect and love from those unwilling or unable to give it. I have a wonderful partner who loves me. And with any luck I will have other wonderful partners who love me. But chasing the "love high" as GG put it, where I'm at right now on my emotional journey, isn't very productive and just leads me back into the same kind of chaos over and over. I need to work on me. But it's scary. Breaking the cycle of negative self talk and destructive behavior is hard. I can do it. But I keep running from it. I need to stop that, or I'm just going to keep cycling through messes like this. And what do I gain? Temporary relief from my angst? Not good enough.

Now, to love myself enough that I feel that I am good enough. That's the trick.

Thanks again guys.

 

[GalaGirl]

FWIW this is what sticks out to me.

I need to work on me, my self esteem, my own self respect.

Breaking the cycle of negative self talk and destructive behavior is hard. I can do it. But I keep running from it.

I think like this...

If you do negative self talk and destructive behavior to yourself? That is not YOU treating you with respect and honor. It is you being your own self bully. So then as a result you cannot feel proud of that behavior and be able to hold yourself in high regard or high esteem. If you pick out questionable people to hang out with? That's also not you treating yourself well.

You can be attracted to whoever -- but you are not obligated to pursue every attraction. Your personal standard for dating could be a higher bar than just "I think X is cute." There's lots of cute people. Some of them are cute but not healthy or great for relationships.

"Good self esteem" that is not based on self respecting behavior? That's not going to last. It's just telling yourself stories. And then you cannot be proud of that either.... like being your own con man or telling your own self stories.

Good news is that YOU are in charge of your behaviors and you can change them.

A person can face challenges and make hard choices and come out of it feeling proud that they did self respecting behavior through the crisis rather than self damaging behavior. Then they can feel proud of how they behaved and how they handled it.

So you may have to choose some initial discomfort as you learn this new skill -- NOT to down talk and to put off impulsiveness or short term gains in favor of more long lasting relief. Could start to notice it when you do down talk and recognize it as behavior you are doing rather than what you ARE.

All people have worth and dignity. Could treat yourself so.

It is not dignified to chase around after a "love high" from a guy who sounds wonky at best.

As you say... what do you gain? Some temporary relief from the angst through sex with a new person? Which comes at a price tag of Ugh feelings after which may leave you lower than you were originally.

Sex can bring a stress-relieving kinda vibe. Might be easier to masturbate in fun ways or think of fun sex with your stable partner instead. So you get some stress relief via sex WITHOUT having to pay that emotional price tag.

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hello purpleboots,

Can I just say? I think D sounds like a hot man. Like he is all dark and mysterious, you always want to know more, plus he's smart, funny, attractive, successful, he ticks all the boxes. It is not hard to see why you would be interested in him, plus the fact that he is somewhat torn about whether he wants to be involved with you (and R), like in his heart he still wants to be with you, but in his mind he is trying to pull away. Plus you do not have closure, like you do not know *why* he is pulling away. So it is not hard for me to understand why you would want that just one more intimate conversation with him, that just one more date, just one more touch, just one more brush of the arm. You will probably always want just a little bit more with him. He is a magnetic man, with a magnetic personality.

It will be really awkward to try to go back to just being friends with him, to just hanging out with him along with K, M, and R. Like you will have to deny your feelings for him, he will be like the forbidden fruit. What will you do? You can't just stop hanging out with K, M, and R, can you? What can you do? You can't just tell D he is no longer invited, can you? So you are stuck in an awkward situation, and it will be *really* tempting to keep the feelings afloat, what with all the flirting that's going on. Will you be able to resist that temptation?

The most you can do right now is, remember that you do not want to invite any more chaos into your life, you have had chaos before and you know what that was like. Don't let yourself get pulled into a situation where you are getting pulled in two directions at once (his heart and his head). You have a really good partner right now (K), focus on that and just trust that you will have other great partners in the future. Be patient.

I don't blame you for feeling a little bit torn about the situation ...
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[powerpuffgrl1969]

Purpleboots, this guy is definitely not someone you want to spend any more time on in a romantic way. He is the way he is because he likes it. He has women drawn to him to help demonstrate to him that love really IS worth the effort. He knows what he's doing, and he doesn't need to expend any effort at all! The women keep coming to him to "fix" him! He is having his cake and eating it too. He is telling you upfront that he is no good in relationships, but presents like a poor wounded little bird who just needs some TLC. Guess what? He really IS no good in a relationship!

It's all bullshit. You are listening to your radar and that's good. If you can, just act like it never happened.

 

[purpleboots]

Thanks Kevin, for being so understanding, for so clearly reiterating the issues I'm grappling with.

So you are stuck in an awkward situation, and it will be *really* tempting to keep the feelings afloat, what with all the flirting that's going on. Will you be able to resist that temptation?

This is exactly it. I don't know. I know I should should, but *will* I be able to?
Can I stop myself? I'm trying to reframe my thoughts, perspective, feelings, so that I can approach this situation in the healthiest way possible but it's *hard*

Given who I am, the family I came from, and what I'm used to, I am willing to tolerate *way* less than ideal treatment for the prospect of 'getting through' to lost and suffering men. That's my baggage. I know why I do it, but now how do I find the strength to *stop* doing it and *start* doing what's right for me.

Thanks for the emotional validation. It really helps.

 

[kdt26417]

Glad if I could help.

You are strong, push hard against the temptation, you know what's the right thing to do, I'm pulling for you!

 

[FallenAngelina]

Given who I am, the family I came from, and what I'm used to, I am willing to tolerate *way* less than ideal treatment for the prospect of 'getting through' to lost and suffering men. That's my baggage. I know why I do it, but now how do I find the strength to *stop* doing it and *start* doing what's right for me.

Baggage can be left behind. Nobody is doomed to carry the baggage of his/her family of origin - and almost everyone has some. It's not strength or will power that changes this, it's making different choices to think and act differently because it feels better to live better. There are many ways to change - I won't pretend to be a therapist and tell you how. Much is available for people who want to make healthier and more emotionally secure choices in thought. I'm just here to say that there's really no such lasting thing as being strong. There is, however, such a thing as choosing to learn about different approaches, different perspectives, different thoughts that lead to improved behavior and positive feelings. Many small changes make a changed life, little by little. "Being strong" and just avoiding people is really not a concept that leads to true and lasting inner emotional security. You see from your own life that unless you make internal changes, the same kind of problem keeps cropping up again and again.

 

[GalaGirl]

Given who I am, the family I came from, and what I'm used to, I am willing to tolerate *way* less than ideal treatment for the prospect of 'getting through' to lost and suffering men. That's my baggage. I know why I do it, but now how do I find the strength to *stop* doing it and *start* doing what's right for me.

Understandable, but doesn't doom you to ride the same merry-go-round for life. You can get off that ride.

You do it by thinking "Wait.... Given who I am, the family I came from, and what I'm used to, I am willing to tolerate *way* less than ideal treatment for the prospect of 'getting through' to lost and suffering men. That's my baggage.

So THIS situation... is that just more baggage? Or not?"

when a new situation arises. Use your yardstick. Size things up. You do not have to be the "man fixer." They can fix themselves. You can expect better treatment. A new mindset like that can take some getting used to, but you ARE allowed to have your OWN preferences, boundaries, limits, etc.

Galagirl

 

[Magdlyn]

I'm not good with remembering initials, especially multiple initials.

I'm going to use Ken for K.
Dave for D.
Rose for R.
M doesn't seem to be in the loop, but let's call him Mike.

Feel free to use other nicknames. Our Guidelines request nicknames.

The others have given you good feedback, but I just wonder about one little aspect. You and Ken (your bf) spend an awful lot of time with these others... every week? Every single week? Why? I mean, yeah, you have fun. But is it necessary to hang with them every single week?

What's the point? Couldn't you see other friends? You personally, see others. Or you and Ken see others. Or just hang out together or go out together, without seeing others at all.

The reason I am asking this is, you and this attractive single guy Dave are around each other every weekend, all weekend, it seems. Right? And you and Rose for some reason, both crush on him. Is Rose single and horny? What's up with 2 grown women crushing on and giggling about and flirting with the same guy? Why is he so mysterious if you talk to him every weekend all weekend?

Anyway, you could try hanging out with this friends group less. I find, if I am around someone constantly, and I find them attractive, I get a crush on them "just because." Pheromones, familiarity, etc. It's not sensible, it's not practical, it's maybe not healthy.

So a behavior you could change is stop seeing Dave so often. So you can't stare at him, moon around him, fantasize, and flirt. Stop seeing Rose so often too, for at least a while, to get off the habit of crushing on Dave, talking about him like his 2 biggest fans in the fan club. It sounds sort of high school.

Maybe while your crush dissipates, you and Ken could just hang with Mike... if he's not that attractive to you. Or not. Your choice. Make new friends, get a new hobby group, spend more time with (straight) female friends where there are built-in boundaries around sexual behavior.

 

[MayDecember]

Now D is a special character (and this is probably why I was so drawn to him) in that he's smart, funny, good looking, successful, kinda the "whole package" kind of guy who has only had one significant relationship in his life, around ten years ago.

When I read this, I slammed the brakes hard. Because it was the renaissance man until that point.

Were it really the renaissance man, we would be hearing about how his stunning girlfriend was squished by a bus, and in his remorse you rescued his broken heart, etc. How fortunate for you, and tragic for her.

But you've known him as a romantic target for 1.5 years and longer than that altogether. It sounded like you get together several times a week with him. So that would be 1.5*52*3 = 234 times you had been together, at least. Let's say 250 including time before the crush developed.

I am happy to revise those numbers.

But it is a staggering # of times to be around someone and not know them, especially if you want to "do" them. Three times would be too many for me. But even ten or a dozen - beyond that is really bizarre frankly.

It cannot be an accident. It is by design. The numbers do not square. Or else a lot of information has been left out.

If I want to know something about someone, I ask. Oh, but I am a guy. So if I was a girl I would ask this chain of people, the more the better, to get the same information by subterfuge.

If it is a person, place, or a circumstance where poly is inappropriate - then you don't ask. You send clear signals of disinterest sexually. Like a boss, a little sister or whatever. That would explain why 1.5 years could go by and no sex happening.

But it cannot explain why you don't know him, meaning why he is unsuccessful in relationships.

I meet people who are, and it is generally clear straight away why they have trouble: Social anxiety disorder, autism spectrum, various personality disorders, birth defects, fetal alcohol spectrum, abused childhood, alcoholic/drug dependent, a mercenary on long deployments, you can list dozens of self-explanatory reasons.

If a person not only wants to know, but it is urgent as we are led to believe... this is so odd.

To go from knowing nothing but enticing sexual data, pent up for 1.5 years, to sudden sex, this blast of promiscuity, then back to zero again...

I can't figure that one out.

 

[purpleboots]

I'm working on the healthier mindset, being more respectful to myself, not investing any more energy in someone who clearly is not willing to invest more energy in me. Spending less time with these folks is an option, but part of this configuration works because they are willing to converge at my house on nights where I'm home with the kids. (I'm in my early 30s and many of my friends are more into going out on Friday nights rather than spending the night playing board games as we do) But I should invest more time in hangouts with other friends, find a new hobby group - this is good advice.

I just wanted to respond to this @MayDecember:

It cannot be an accident. It is by design. The numbers do not square. Or else a lot of information has been left out.

If I want to know something about someone, I ask. Oh, but I am a guy. So if I was a girl I would ask this chain of people, the more the better, to get the same information by subterfuge.

I'm going to try to not read that last little bit as hostile toward women and presumptuous about my (or women's in general) communication style, and just respond to the first part.

Yes, I left out some information, I suppose. Mental health and alcohol use is at play here - D can be socially anxious and it's hard to get him to open up, he also has all the symptoms of clinical depression and generalized anxiety disorder. What information I have been able to learn over the years has been via the direct questions I've asked him, about his family, his work, his history. But it's hard to get beyond one or two questions at a time because he gets so uncomfortable. Being highly attuned to the emotions of others, I also become uncomfortable and stop asking questions. And it's not like I can ask a question and it leads to a detailed response. We're talking like one and two sentence answers, max.

He self medicates with alcohol for the anxiety and depression and we are able to have very long and comfortable one on one conversations when he's drunk. This is how I've been able to glean information about his political leanings, for example. He never speaks freely about his life, his experiences, his hobbies, his family, his other friends. He will speak at length about current events and, for the past year or so, the difficult politics at his job.

Recently, he's been actually volunteering personal information, spontaneously telling stories about his life and family, K and I even met his mother and brother over Christmas. This new more open behaviour (but like, still very reserved by most standards) coincided with him leaving the difficult-politics job, the relief of leaving the job may have facilitated him coming out of his shell a bit.

To go from knowing nothing but enticing sexual data, pent up for 1.5 years, to sudden sex, this blast of promiscuity, then back to zero again...

I can't figure that one out.

I think this was a case of him letting way too loose, scaring the shit out of himself, creating an impossible to manage situation, and then retreating. He was still willing to give things a shot with me on New Years day when I went over to his place to talk to him after he'd slept with R, (he was hungover, so probably still not letting his rational mind do the heavy lifting) but upon further reflection over the subsequent week, couldn't imagine a scenario that wouldn't be extremely difficult for him to manage. So he decided he just wanted to revert back to where we were before he had sex with his two closest female friends within 8h of each other. I get that. It's just annoying af.

 

[FallenAngelina]

He self medicates with alcohol for the anxiety and depression and we are able to have very long and comfortable one on one conversations when he's drunk.

Self-medication for depression and anxiety underlies most alcoholism. You won't ever find a problem drinker who has no underlying emotional/mental pain. This, in and of itself, is much, much bigger than any love relationship can heal without additional community support. You can find love with a problem drinker and you can find relief via breakthroughs from time to time, but you cannot make him better. If he gets better, it will be his doing, not yours. You do not need to, nor can you "fix" him.

 

[WhatHappened]

When life gets this complex, it's time to decide if you really want to stay in situations and with people who make your life this complex.

My life is much happier since walking away from people who require :tldr.