Thoughts, advice, support

J

Jbean

New member
I've been in an open relationship for 3.5 years. I have been seeing the same man outside of my marriage. About 6 months ago, I found out my bf was seeking out additional relationships/sex via online dating. I was pretty devastated but I took a step back and did some work and talking and concluded that I understood. But maybe not enough because today when I very accidentally saw an open email from a dating site, I was again a little heart broken. I understand, but it is so hard to fight the feeling of, "why am I not enough?"

I want to talk to him about it, but only to express myself. I foresee that being ill-received. But holding it in hurts. So, I am sharing here with a group of people who understand on some level. And, for that, thank you! ;)
 
Many times in poly have I seen someone believe they were ready to handle something, only for their own emotions to surprise them.

Re: why am I not enough ... I'm sure that in your mind you've already compared that to the question, "Why is my husband not enough?" because if he was enough you wouldn't be seeing a man outside the marriage, right?

And I'm sure that in your mind you've responded that it's not about being "enough," it's about wanting to love more than one person. You want to love both your husband and your boyfriend. Your boyfriend wants to love both you and well, someone ... call it the human craving for variety.

The mind can say, "I won't harbor a double standard." The heart can say, "Screw the mind; I'll harbor all the double standards I want." Sometimes it takes awhile to get the mind and heart working in sync.

A lot of uncomfortable feelings are like emotional weather. If you can wait out the storm, the clouds will clear and the Sun will shine again. Hang in there, and don't let the emotional weather get you down!

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Kevin - thank you for your kind thoughts.
All of very much on point. I appreciate the space to talk about this without judgment.

Funny thing is, I've never thought my husband wasn't enough.

I think one thing that makes it hard too is that I don't necessarily feel like I have an open space to speak to my bf about it. I tried when I first found out (6 months ago) and he really preferred not to. I want to respect that, but that is tricky since I usually just need to talk things out. I think seeing an online dating profile is also a bit of a rub.

Again, thanks for your thoughts and kind words.
 
not to sound mean but...suck it up buttercup

You've really only been half poly in my estimation, and the easier half at that. I don't believe anyone is truly full blown poly unless they have lived up to the standard from both sides of the coin. Its easy to love more than one, go on dates and have sex. The MUCH harder part is experiencing and supporting your spouse/lover doing the same. So often these double standards sneak into relationships. Sometimes they are out in the open where the offended partner proclaims "I want lovers but I don't want you to have them!". At least that is communication and can be dealt with. The more insidious and dangerous double standard is when a partner proclaims to accept poly but then undermines it all with passive aggression, guilt trips, and coming up with endless excuses why your particular partner just isn't "right" for them.

Bravo for recognizing your double standard and wanting to communicate it. Now what I suggest is writing your feelings down since he doesn't want to talk about it, and give him the letter. Now the real challenge for you is not to lay any guilt at his feet and to show him support . Tell him about the troubles that YOU are having that are not his fault and you don't blame him for them . Maybe even give him some words of praise for how well he has done dealing with you and your boyfriend . Thank him for all the times that he has shown love and support to you . Treat him the way you wish him to continue treating you when it comes to your others and you should be fine.
 
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I think a lot of the trouble people have with accepting that their partners may want other partners in addition to them comes down to self-identity. It is ingrained in our society to see ourselves as one half of a couple, to subsume our individual identity for a shared identity with another person. When the other person then seeks out another, it is a threat to who we think we are. Now we are no longer one half of a shared couple identity, we are...well, what? See what I mean?

Much easier to navigate such things if we see each person as an individual - ourselves included - rather than seeing ourselves as half of a couple. By viewing ourselves as separate, our self-dentity cannot be threatened.

We do this with our non-romantic friends. If a friend wants to go off and do something with someone else, it doesn't affect us, we're okay. We know their friendship with that other person is not a reflection on our friendship. That's because we don't have a shared identity with our friends. Why do we do this with a romantic partner?
 
Been there...

Hubby and I started out with an open marriage. The first time he had sex with another woman, even though by that point I'd had sex with three other men, it was hard as hell to deal with. I was jealous, hurt, and scared that he would like her better than me.

Guy and S2 both, obviously, can see other people. Guy has seen others; I don't know about S2, though he recently told me about his interest in a couple of women.

The thing is... You feel how you feel. Whatever *emotions* you're experiencing are valid and one hundred percent okay. If you feel jealous, hurt, angry, whatever... IT IS OKAY.

It's how you act, react, and speak in *response* to those emotions that's important.

It's okay for you to feel inadequate because your boyfriend is dating online, as long as you are able to remind yourself--and him--that this is part of the deal, and that he has the right to see others. It's okay for you to say to him (if he'll listen) something like, "I'm a little hurt about your online dating, because it makes me wonder if I'm enough for you. Could you please give me some reassurance that even if you're dating others, you're still going to want to see me too?"

In any relationship, whether it's poly, mono, or whatever, each participant has the right to express their feelings, needs, and wants. And each participant has the right to refuse to meet those needs or wants, and to express their feelings in response. Communication is not only important, it's imperative. But there are positive and negative ways to communicate, and no matter how you *feel*, it's important to try to *communicate* calmly and respectfully.

You recognize that your *feelings* are part of a double standard, and that's a great thing to realize, because it makes it more likely that you'll be able to effectively discuss this with your boyfriend. But I hope you understand that is is okay to feel that way. Feelings are never wrong; actions and reactions can be.
 
Re (from Jbean):
"I think one thing that makes it hard too is that I don't necessarily feel like I have an open space to speak to my boyfriend about it. I tried when I first found out (six months ago) and he really preferred not to. I want to respect that, but that is tricky since I usually just need to talk things out."
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Hmmm. But I think he should respect you too, and that means respecting your need/desire to communicate. Maybe when you tried six months ago you just caught him at a bad time? I like graviton's idea of writing him letter (or email). Another idea might be to tell him that you want to have a "relationship talk" with him, and what would be a good time and place for him to have such a talk. It should be a time and place when you and he are both in a positive frame of mind, when there's not a lot of worries or distractions. Also when you talk to each other, do so compassionately and respectfully. Don't interrupt, and be a good listener when he talks. Set a good example for him to follow.

Re:
"I think seeing an online dating profile is also a bit of a rub."
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Now I know that you know that that's kind of splitting hairs. True he doesn't have a specific person picked out yet, but he knows that you have two guys and he wants to experience having two gals. Seems fair enough. Now I know that your emotions won't always cooperate with your thoughts, but maybe if you can get that chance to communicate with him, you'll feel better about it.

Good luck, and please keep us posted here on how things are going.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I am sorry you struggle. If you guys were essentially a "closed V" for 3.5 years and he suddenly goes and starts online dating abruptly, I can see where it is a bit of a shocker even if in your oral/written agreements it has always been that you both can date other people. In practice it was something else.

A little heads up would have been nice consideration so you aren't tripping over your feelings. Stumbling on his online things could feel like a bucket of cold water.

"I think one thing that makes it hard too is that I don't necessarily feel like I have an open space to speak to my boyfriend about it. I tried when I first found out (six months ago) and he really preferred not to. I want to respect that, but that is tricky since I usually just need to talk things out."
Click to expand...

I think it might be this more than the dating that bugs you. No communication, no heads up consideration. Ask to talk again.

He is free to decline again, but then that would change the problem from (deal with BF actively dating in a smoother way) to something else. (Are my needs met here or not when I date someone who just refuses to talk to me?)

But ask again... maybe change HOW you ask.

Does any of poly hell apply here? Talk it out together, esp if he's moving from "dormant" to "active" dating now.

Maybe something like...

"I want to talk. I need reassuring.

I brought my concerns up concerns 6 mos ago. You were not keen to talk. I let it go for your sake. But I still have the concerns today. Could you be willing to let it be my turn now?

Could you please be willing to make an appointment with me to cover this article together before you go on your next date? Then I can feel emotionally stable/safe during this new change. When I bring up concerns needing reassurance and you do not want to talk to me I feel rocky about this change. I would like to feel calm about it. Then you can go ahead smoothly and I can transition smoothly too.

Maybe you read it ahead of time and then we read it together on Friday at 8 PM? Does that work for you?"​

Maybe that helps him be more willing to talk and negotiate an appointment time to do it if he knows there's something to look at with a clear start and stop. Top of article, end of article. It isn't going to be like long looping around conversation like a plate of emotional spaghetti. YKWIM? People have different conversational styles. Some like that meandering thing and some do not. Maybe it helps him be more willing if he knows straight up what you need (reassurance) and what the shared goal is (he dates, you feel smoother about it.)

Hopefully you will feel better after a good talk.

Galagirl
 
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Oh my gosh! Thank you all for such thoughtful and helpful responses! I am grateful to have found this message board and grateful that there are people, like y'all, who are mindful about their emotions and relationships and willing to share!

I will say that all of your responses made me think and feel heard.

:) jbean

(A little clarification -- b-friend is also married.).
 
my bad...its your bf and not your husband. I guess I can understand a little more but I guess poly is poly. I know many people stop at two but there are others who want the freedom to meet as many people as they desire.
 
Hmmm ... so how does your boyfriend's wife feel about him seeking a third woman in his life?

I guess it's up to you whether you want to be in a relationship with a man who has three (or more) partners while you only have two. I must confess, it did not occur to me that he might already be married.
 
@Kevin - I don't think his wife knows about him seeking out others.

I think one thing that I have realized while thinking through these thoughts is that BF and I have a very different approach (and experience, frankly) to sexuality. I have been with only two people -- including him. So his seeking out casual sex on dating sites is very far from my experience or comfort level.

I'm not saying that his approach is wrong -- just that casual sex is not something I'm well-versed in.

At the end of the day, I don't want the way I interact with him to be colored by the knowledge I have about his "extracurriculars."

*shrugs shoulders*
 
Re:
"So ... he cheats on his wife? Is that what you are saying?"
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Yeah, that does thicken the plot a little.

I have no theoretical objections to him seeking casual encounters on the side, but he needs to consult you more about your comfort level, and he certainly needs to consult his wife.

Other than that I guess you could argue that he's not actually seeking a third partner per se. Maybe FWB's at the most?
 
Cheating on his wife may be jumping to conclusions. Maybe they have an open r'ship (he has the OP after all) and doesn't want to know any details if they don't really impact her day to day.

Jbean, I have recently had a similar experience to yours, leading to me breaking up with my married bf (altho 2 mos after the breakup, we are now communicating again).

I felt like a hypocrite too, when, after a few months of being together, and him only seeing me, he and my gf started wanting each other. We went ahead with that, and after some glitches, they settled into a FWB thing. Well and good. But then, after we moved near him, he started flirting with and dating others from ok cupid, and having sex with a couple FB friends, and people he met through a hobby group.

So, in the course of the 2nd year of our r'ship, he had sex of one kind or another with: me, his wife, my gf, 2 single women, a married MF couple, and then one more single woman. 8 people!

I finally broke it off with him 3 months into his (stormy, jealousy ridden) r'ship with the married couple.

I had 2 other men plus my gf when Ginger and I first met, and first dates with 2-3 men after I met Ginger (and broke it off with the 2 previous men). My heart wasn't really into it, because Ginger and my gf really met my r'ship needs. But Ginger wanted more, and I didn't realize that in the first year of our r'ship.

I found it very very very hard to adjust to him having a new lover every 2 months for over a year. I had no interest or right to veto, so I did the only thing I could, broke it off with him...

A month after we broke up, his couple broke up with him. The woman he had sex with after our breakup but before his 2nd breakup doesn't seem to want to get together with him again, so they just chat online.

It all became so much drama! I was going insane. But now that I've had a break from him, and recently started having some online talks with him to see where our heads are at now, I realize he does not WANT a revolving door of other lovers, just one other. He and his wife are not that intimate. They even live and sleep in different houses on their land. My gf doesn't come through with the "benefits" all that often.

So, my recent feelings are, if I do want to get back together with my bf, it will be as a platonic friend or a FWB. I felt too bonded with him from all the great sex we used to have. I tend to be "all in" in a r'ship or even friendships. I couldn't develop compersion for him and his dating. I think partly it's because he has Asperger's syndrome and doesn't understand me instinctively the way my gf does. Also, I have not approved of many of his lovers. Especially the married couple, because they were poly noobs and the h was extremely jealous and insisted he be there participating for all sex between his wife and Ginger. And Ginger went for that.

Also, Ginger had many health problems in the past year and a half, which led to frequent erectile dysfunction, which added to the stress and my confusion.

So, conclusions: I have complete compersion for my gf's other r'ships, but she is very discriminating and has only had 3 bfs in the 5 1/2 years we have been together. Ginger will continue to date others, but he isn't interested in juggling more than one other partner (besides me, his wife and my gf). But of course, when one is dating, one needs to kiss a lot of frogs before we find someone who really lives up to the promise.

It's a work in progress, very difficult and confusing and stressful. I have learned so much from this board to even be able to talk to Ginger about our needs, desires, emotions, plans. It's complicated! I wish you luck and strength.
 
Polyamory Motivations

My fiancé wants to live a polyamorous lifestyle, but I am having a very difficult time understanding his reasons. He says he wants to do some things in the bedroom that he know's I'm not comfortable with and doesn't want to coerce me into them, but to me that doesn't seem to be true Polyamory, at least based on my limited understanding.
When I ask him to try to explain his desires for other women to me, he has no way of doing so. I should add, I identify as monogamous and the only rationalizations I can come up with for this are me not being enough for him, which is terrifying to me, and him not loving me the way I love him. Is there anywhere I can go to get a better understanding of what is going on? Any help would be appreciated. He and I have been talking about this constantly but I continue to feel increasingly lost.
 
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*Tears*

@Magdyln -- yes, there are definite similarities in the dating world you just described. He is playing the field way more than I even have the time, energy or desire to try. But, I'd appreciate the consideration of talking to me a bit. I don't need details, but trust me to handle the information and process alone. I get that he is

A post earlier cited possible passive aggressive behavior on my part and it is true. But a better description is likely a slightly lost or unsure place. I second guess my behavior -- maybe even pull away -- not to get back at him, but to try to protect myself and give him space only assuming that is what he is asking for.

And, Yes, I am all in. For better or worse, it is how I operate. It is funny (maybe not the right word), that you mention the autism, because on certain days I feel the same way about my BF. I realize that in your guy's situation, it was what sounds like a veritable diagnosis, but my BF has these cycles -- mania, depression and introversion (yes, I know not autism, per se, but still something to work with.) I think we are in a bit of a manic period right now. And I get it and I roll with it, but then we get the OkCupid activity, the overt comments about other women, etc. I want to say, "Please just talk to me. Tell me what you want!" I asked him once, months ago, after learning about the online dating, "Are we open in our open relationship?" and I think he took it as a bit of an attack, stating, "there is nothing I can say right now because anything I say I lose."

The bottom line is that I do really love this guy and, at the end of the day, I want him to be happy, but I feel betrayed and scared by the secrecy.

And then there is, of course, is aversion to STD testing . . . oh another story.

(I apologize, my posts are a bit rambling, but it is good to get it off my chest . . .)
 
CompleteNewbie --He sounds like he wants to explore polysexual (sex share), not polyamory (love share). Or maybe he wants both love share AND sex share (polyamorous and polysexual).

I don't know if this could help you with the core beliefs.

http://www.cat-and-dragon.com/stef/poly/Labriola/jealousy.html

I think it boils down to whether or not you are willing and able to participate as a monoamorous person in a polyshipping "V" with him as the shared sweetie "hinge person" who has another partner. You still get your one sweetie in that model.

If you are monoamorous (love one sweetie only) AND monogamous (prefer to relate in a 2 people model max) you might find you have no desire to even go there or that after trying it on that participating in 3 people "V" polyship is not to your liking and goes against the grain. Be true to yourself -- your values, your preferences, your way of going.

In a V, you get the one sweetie, but you do not get their undivided time and attention like in the other model. It isn't that you are not enough but it could be that this model is just not for you. People just like what shapes they like, YKWIM? Nothing wrong with liking a (2 people only) model. It isn't like it is some failing, like you are not enough. It is simply a preference.

Talk to your BF and sort it out. Guard against agreeing to do things you really do not want just to "not lose him" though. Stay true to you.

Galagirl
 
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Jbean -- I am still confused. Does the wife know? Is this like him cheating or is this like they have a DADT agreement -- she knows he sees other people but doesn't want to hear details about it? :confused:

What kind of agreement do (you and he) have? To me it kinda sounds like he does whatever and expects you to deal with it / never question it? (I could be wrong. )

I asked him once, months ago, after learning about the online dating, "Are we open in our open relationship?" and I think he took it as a bit of an attack, stating, "there is nothing I can say right now because anything I say I lose.
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Weird. It's a simple "yes/no" thing. What does he "lose?"

Did that ever get sorted out or still left up in the air? :confused:

at the end of the day, I want him to be happy, but I feel betrayed and scared by the secrecy.
Click to expand...

I would feel same. Has he ever explained why he is not willing/able to just say what's going on straight up? What's with the evasiveness? :confused:

I think over time that kind of behavior erodes trust. How much do you value (forthrightness) and (integrity) in your relationships? Are those traits you are willing to forgo as price of admission to be in a relationship with him?

How do you feel about your own happiness? Is it there too in the "at the end of the day?" Are you thriving here or surviving here?

You sound upset and struggling. I am very sorry. You could be treated better than this. :(

Galagirl
 
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