Triad advice

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polyfidelity

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I've been the third in a triad for over a year now. There's kind of been something I've been bothered about and I'm not sure how to appropriately approach it with my two partners. They are nesting partners. (I'll call them Jack and Jill.) I am currently solo.

We've kind of fallen into a routine when we hang out, it works really well, for the most part. Then there are times that I feel "othered," to a certain point. Jack and I mostly only do things together with Jill also present. (I'm perfectly happy with this dynamic.) Jack and Jill do things alone. Sometimes Jill and I plan trips alone. We also all three do lots of things together. When Jill and I have plans, Jack asks to spend extra time with Jill beforehand, since he will miss her. I respect that, but at the same time that can put me off from seeing either of them for up to a week, with how we schedule things.

They are both my partners, and we've mutually agreed to not see anyone else. So, going four to six days without both of them is a lot, when we typically keep it to one to three days. Four to six days may not sound terribly long, but they are my partners and my best friends. I want to spend my free time with them. I also don't have sex during these periods, while I know they do nightly.

How can I broach the subject with respect for Jack's feelings? It's even to a point where he doesn't want dinner dates or anything leading up to a weekend away with Jill. I get in my head about it sometimes and feel like it's a control thing for Jack.
 
Would they be prepared to sit down and have a conversation with you about it? I’m in a similar problem with my girlfriend and boyfriend (a married couple). Communication is definitely the biggest thing in a triad, which is what I have learned over the last few days.
 
Serenity123 said:
Would they be prepared to sit down and have a conversation with you about it? I’m in a similar problem with my girlfriend and boyfriend (married couple) communication is definitely the biggest thing in a triad which is what I have learned over the last few days.
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I brought it up with Jill recently and would love to talk to Jack about it. It's his (I'm not sure if boundary is quite the right word) wish? I want to talk to him about it maturely without setting whatever off has him wanting that boundary. I'm not even sure it would set him off. It's just something that he's wanted since the beginning and I want to broach it carefully.
 
I am sorry you struggle. FWIW, I see several things you could reflect on.

ONE
You aren't a "third," like you got "added" to their relationship. Jack and Jill basically BROKE UP their two-person thing, in order to start a brand new three-person thing with you. Does this group understand that? Or is everyone operating like the couple comes first and you are this bonus add-on feature?

TWO
I'm not sure why you would agreed to a closed-triad model, rather than an open one, where everyone can date independently.

THREE
Jack and I mostly only do anything together with Jill present. (I'm perfectly happy with this dynamic.)
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You and Jack never have alone time? Why are you okay with this?

Is he only doing this triad thing like a "group project?" Are you?

Would this be better as a V?

FOUR
Isn't reassuring Jack when Jill is gone a problem for Jill to solve?

Say there was another guy, BOB, not a nesting partner, not also a dude you date, just a random other partner Jill has. If Bob said he missed Jill when she went on a weekend away with you, that's a thing on the (Bob+Jill) layer, right? Jill would deal with Bob herself. You would not be expected to deal with it. This extra care would come out of HER free time, not at the expense of your time.

So, why is Jill blowing you off, rather than talking to Jack like this? "I can reassure you verbally now and have a special date before I leave, then text you good morning and good night while I'm gone. When I get back I can cuddle you and talk. [This is before-care, during-care, and after-care.] But I'm still going on my weekend away date with Polyfidelity. I'm not standing them up."

If it would be one way for this theoretical "Bob" (that you are not dating), what makes it different here just because it is Jack, a nesting partner that you are ALSO dating? Don't you expect Jill to deal with her Jack problems herself?

Right now, you think you have a Jack problem, when I think really it is a Jill-hinge problem. She's letting Jack's requests to HER on that (Jack + Jill) side of things spill over on to the (you+Jill) side of things.

FIVE
You have been dating them for a year. How long does this triad have to exist before Jack is good with participating in a triad? What work has he done? How about Jill? You? And how about them as a couple? Have they missed taking certain steps? Are they too enmeshed/entangled?

Are you all trying to trade "couple enmeshed" for "trio enmeshed"?

Is that why Jack wants to date you? To "absorb you" somehow, or "not be left out then too," or something?

SIX
Are people using "personal boundary" interchangeably with "shared agreement" here? Do people know what a personal boundary is?

How about "request"? What is a reasonable and rational request, vs what is an unreasonable and irrational request?

Are you people good at saying, "No, thank you. I won't be doing that," when needed? Or do you struggle with people pleasing?

What is wrong with you and Jill going away for a weekend sometimes, and Jack being on his own? Is he codependent, NEVER spending time alone? He wants to be with Jill, or you AND Jill, because being on his own wigs him out? Would "respecting his boundary" on that actually help him to become a healthy person, or is it just enabling/coddling him, and helping him to avoid doing his personal work?

These might be some things to think about.

Galagirl
 
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GalaGirl said:
I am sorry you struggle.

FWiW I see several things you could reflect on.

ONE

You aren't a third. Like you got "added" to their relationship. Jack and Jill basically BROKE UP their 2 people thing. In order to start a brand new 3 people thing with you.

So... does this group understand that? Or is everyone operating like the couple comes first and you are this bonus add on feature?

TWO

Not sure why you would agreed to a closed triad model rather than all can date.

THREE



You and Jack never have alone time? Why are you ok with it?

Is he only doing this triad thing like "group project?" Are you?

Would this be better as a V?

FOUR

Isn't reassuring Jack when Jill is gone a Jill problem to solve?

Say it was BOB. Not a nesting partner. Not also a dude you date. Just random other partner elsewhere.

If Bob said he misses Jill when she goes on a weekend away with you? That's a thing on the (Bob+Jill) layer right? Jill would deal with Bob herself and you would not be expected to deal in that. This extra care would come out of HER free time, not at the expense of your time, right?

So... why is Jill blowing you off? Rather than telling Jack "I can reassure you verbally now and have a special date before I leave. Then text you good morning and good night while I'm gone. Then when I am back I can cuddle you and talk. Like before care, during care, and after care.

But I'm still going on my weekend away date with Polyfidelity. I'm not standing them up."

If it would be one way for theoretical "Bob" that you do not also date.... What makes it different here just cuz it is a nesting Jack partner that you ALSO date? You do not expect Jill to deal with her Jack problems herself?

Cuz right now? You think you have a Jack problem. When I think really it is a Jill hinging problem. She's letting Jack requests to HER on that (Jack + Jill) side of things spill over on to the (you+Jill) side of things.

FIVE

Dating for a year. So how long does this triad have to exist before Jack is good with participating in a triad? What work has he done? How about Jill? You?

And how about them as a couple? Have they missed steps and are too enmeshed / entangled?

Anyone here trying to trade "couple enmeshed" for "trio enmeshed?"

Is that why Jack wants to date you? To "absorb you" somehow or "not be left out then too" or something?

SIX

Are people using "personal boundary" interchangeably with "shared agreement" or something here? Do people know what a personal boundary is?

How about "request" -- what is a reasonable and rational request vs what is an unreasonable and irrational request?

Are people here good at saying "No, thank you. I won't be doing that" when needed? Or struggle with people pleasing?

What is wrong with you and Jill going away for a weekend sometimes? And Jack being on his own?

Is he codependent? NEVER spends time alone? He wants to be with Jill or you AND Jill. And being on his own wigs him out? Would "respecting his boundary" on that actually help him be a healthy person or is it just enabling/coddling and helping him avoid dealing with his personal work?

Maybe some things to think about.

Galagirl
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I hear you on a lot of these things. It's hard to get it all out in text sometimes. To answer a bulk of your reply, the three of us did not begin things ethically and did not do any prep work before the relationship began. There were big issues that we have worked through and are continuing to work through together. We love each other and we are trying. That's the important part, in my eyes. My relationship with Jack does need the most work, but we are getting there.

For the specific issue I asked about, I've asked Jack to keep our regular schedule going for seeing each other before Jill and I go on planned weekends. He claims he wants to spend extra time alone with Jill before I get extra time alone with Jill. He's 100% good with Jill and me having time to ourselves. Jack enjoys our time alone, as well. We both just don't seek it out as much, since we both enjoy Jill being around, as well.

While you could say this is a Jack and Jill convo, I was there and a part of it. I agreed to his request. This last time ended up pushing six days of not seeing them, with how our schedules fell. It left me feeling othered and I want to express that to the both of them.
 
For specifically the issue I asked about, I've asked Jack to keep our regular schedule going for seeing each. other before Jill and I go on planned weekends. He claims he wants to spend extra time alone with Jill before I get extra time alone with Jill.
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How can BOTH keeping the regular schedule AND carving out extra time happen? Who is responsible for solving that? Jack and Jill, not you?

How will they work together to solve the problem differently, this time? Stay up late and squeeze in an in-house date, like pizza and a movie, or take a planned day off together?

While you could say this is a Jack and Jill convo, I was there and a part of it. I agreed to his request. This last time ended up pushing six days of not seeing them, with how our schedules fell. It left me feeling othered and I want to express that to the both of them.
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Now you have learned to say, "No, thank you. I prefer to leave standing dates as is, and any extra time you need with Jill comes out of Jill's free time. Jack and Jill work that out with each other."

Not everything has to be a group meeting.

He claims he wants to spend extra time alone with Jill before I get extra time alone with Jill.
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Why is this "extra time" and not "scheduled weekend time?"

If it's extra, Jack can go sort it out with Jill. Why is he bugging out about polyfidelity? Isn't Jill in charge of her time management and calendar?

It's good y'all are trying. But HOW? What works? What does not?

Do you all need to learn another way to schedule? Like X is the pattern for work nights, and Y is the pattern for the weekend?

For example:

Monday-- All together
Tuesday-- Jack and Jill
Wednesday-- Flex (can be separate for rest, friends, and family, or a bonus all together)
Thursday-- You and Jill
Friday-- Doing poly triad homework

1st weekend-- All together
2nd weekend-- Jack and Jill
3rd weekend-- You and Jill
4th weekend-- Flex (can be separate for rest, friends, and family, or a bonus all together)
The odd 5th weekend in a month-- You and Jack alone, since it's wanted less often. Or can be another flexible one.


GG
 
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Hello polyfidelity,

When you and Jill are going on a trip (just you two), and Jack wants extra time with Jill before the trip: why doesn't he also want extra time with you? I also think you should have more one-on-one sex with each of them.

Just my opinion,
Kevin T.
 
I think that it's perfectly reasonable for each couple to relate to each other differently. Granted they weren't closed triads but I've been in triads where I just didn't have 1v1 time with one party because we just didn't gel that way. I only realise this in hindsight because we weren't doing anything other than what came naturally so it was never a problem in the triad.
 
I agree. The sides of a triangle don't have to be exactly the same for it to be stable. If Jack and Polyfidelity naturally want less time together, that's fine. But if Jack is doing couple-privilege stuff, that doesn't sound great to me.

Polyfidelity, you are the one actually there. I encourage you to talk to your partners and get this calendar thing sorted.

GG
 
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Since you said you started this triad in an unethical way and are kind of flying blind, besides this particular issue, I'm sure there are many others you are struggling with. You've been in this closed triad for a year. Is this the first time you've reached out to experienced polyamorists for advice?

To augment any help you get here, I highly recommend reading the book Opening Up. It covers all the bases of how to avoid common pitfalls everyone encounters when they are new to poly. It's on Amazon. Check it out.
 
Magdlyn said:
Since you said you started this triad in an unethical way and are kind of flying blind, besides this particular issue, I'm sure there are many others you are struggling with. You've been in this closed triad for a year. Is this the first time you've reached out to experienced polyamorists for advice?

To augment any help you get here, I highly recommend reading the book Opening Up. It covers all the bases of how to avoid common pitfalls everyone encounters when they are new to poly. It's on Amazon. Check it out.
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I've actually used Reddit quit a bit, but feel like it can be a rather toxic place. I wanted to give another place a try, and so far I'm enjoying it here. A lot of people on reddit tend to jump on Jill really harshly and I don't feel like that's fair with strangers not knowing the entire situation. I have gotten a lot of hate with people calling them unicorn hunters and I do not feel that is the case at all. We have a loving relationship and we have been willing to work on hurdles.

I'll add that to the list of books I plan to read.
 
Yeah, reddit can be pretty terrible!

Since you are trying to establish relationships with 2 members of a couple, you are in a secondary position and may not be aware that you have rights. This is a helpful article that you can quickly read as you wait for Opening Up to arrive.

 
Magdlyn said:
Yeah, reddit can be pretty terrible!

Since you are trying to establish relationships with 2 members of a couple, you are in a secondary position and may not be aware that you have rights. This is a helpful article that you can quickly read as you wait for Opening Up to arrive.

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That was a good read. We definitely struggled through a lot of things mentioned in the article for the first 6 to 8 months. I believe we are on a much healthier path now.
 
This does not sound healthy at all. Your feelings are being hurt, you are not okay with some of this. Your feelings matter. Your needs matter.

Every poly situation is different, but if it's ethical, you would feel secure, valued, and respected. It may not be about quantity of time, but rather quality of that time. Because it didn't start off ethical, Jill has the upper hand here. And Jack may have made private promises to her, or feel he needs to always make up to her for what happened before. If you all have truly put the past behind you and worked through this, things would not feel as bad as they are feeling to you right now. Trust your heart. Are you willing to exit if needed? You don't deserve table scraps. No matter how this all started.
 
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