Triad goal - stuck in limbo (very long)

[New2This3]

Where do I even begin? I am a very soon to be 30yr old, married to my husband, S, for 4yrs, been together for just about 6 and knew each other all through high school...we have 2 kids together, 2.5 and 1...before we had kids we talked of an open relationship or more just a swinging lifestyle as I was and still am Bicurious and he was interested and okay with it... After going through a traumatic experience, we both fell into a rut...when we found out we were pregnant, things got better....but then afterwards our communication dropped and we fell into a rut yet again only this time, as I have recently found out, S has expressed that he was at a point where he thought there was no future left for the two of us, that is how badly things were for him...I didn't see it that way and wish we could have communicated things better so we could have worked on it.

Fast forward to March of this year, S meets a woman, K, through mutual friends one night while out with them. They hit it off and become close friends. I was not aware of this at the time. He kept the friendship hidden. She is in an unhappy marriage and has 3 kids. She confided in him a lot. And at times I have felt and expressed that they were having an emotional affair without my or her spouses knowledge.....regardless, I ended up becoming friends with her and connected with her right away as best friends.....she confided in me about her verbally abusive husband and how she wanted to leave and I invited her and her kids to move in with us without hesitation....that's how strong of a connection I felt with her....

Since then it's been a huge whirlwind of ups and downs....lots of discussions and hurt feelings...times where we thought things were over...times when a future with all of us together as a family was never more clearer in our minds....

A lot of issues have arisen however...and I know there are a lot of red flags as well....she is still married, but is moving into her own apartment in October. Her and my husband are completely in love. She has expressed her desire to possibly explore with me in the future but is not committing to anything right now and would just like to be best friends with me....she has only known monogamy for the last 12yrs...he was her first sexually she's never been with any other men...she is religious and her faith confuses her a lot when it comes to the thought of our vision of a triad....she is not comfortable at all with my husband and I being intimate, whether sexually or cuddling or kissing or holding hands....a lot of things that I get to do with him that are simple that she doesn't makes her jealous and sad, like being able to see him after work each day and getting to sleep in the same bed even if we aren't touching and getting to go to family events together etc. at the same time she is not free from marriage to explore any feelings or relationships with either of us....however my husband and her continue to grow in their relationship as close to pushing boundaries as she will allow.... And in turn my husband has neglected our relationship....all the issues that we have gone through before have arisen...it's put a strain on us to the point where he feels he needs to find me again, he wants to work on us without being sexual (which is a hard thing for me because I felt like it was a big aspect of our relationship that we connected on, we both are very sexual people) he feels better about himself, his relationship with her is changing him as a person and in turn is making him see us in a different light I suppose....I have read up about this and I do understand and realize that a triad relationship will change all relationships in some way...that the couple can't expect to not be affected in some way.... So I get that part....regardless I feel like while her jealousy on things that I have with him are understandable, my marriage with my husband is in jeopardy and I can't do anything about it until we are all free to explore relationships together with each other and as a group....

I will backtrack and add that in the beginning when I found out he and her were friends without my knowledge and were extremely close and that he was falling in love with her, I was actually okay with it and I think it's because I liked her from the moment she and I first hung out together ...I was upset about their hidden emotional affair, but I was more excited about the vision of her moving in with her kids and all of us being a family together...I was excited at the idea of having a closed triad relationship with them both. The insecurities and jealousy and negativity began when I was told that they had made a pact that they would tell each other when the other had sex or was intimate in any way with their spouses, because it hurt them both to think of the other with someone else in that way.......I was not told or included in the discussion ....and then I became aware of all the things that she was uncomfortable with about us, about him and I, and our vision of the future that I was excited about, about sharing my husband with me. And the more I knew how she confused she was about things the more I became insecure about my relationship with my husband, the more I realized how much he was neglecting our marriage and relationship so as to not hurt her....and he felt and still feels like he's in The middle, stuck with trying to make both his relationships work with us, with trying to find some scenario for present time that will be as close to fair as it can be for all involved until such a time when things are able to progress further.....

In our most recent discussions, my husband has proposed an option, which felt more like an ultimatum to me....if I want a future with him, I needed to be okay with him and her together and I need to make her see that I am okay and make her feel that I am comfortable with us all being together....I felt that way in the beginning and need to find it again and not scare her away with my insecurities...either I do all this or he and I cannot be together....because he wants us both, as one family, he doesn't want to break up his home and he doesn't want to loose me, and this is the only way he can think of to fix things and work towards that goal/future....because he knows how her mind works and knows her fears and needs to ease her into feeling comfortable and accepting of this kind of relationship and future with us. I have to hold back and wait for her to be okay with he and I being in an actual intimate relationship again while he and her explore and grow in their relationship at whatever pace they see fit.

That last bit is probably just a tiny bit exaggerated because I was hurt by this proposal so it's probably coming out harsher than he said it to me....and by how it feels like he is only catering to her feelings and their relationship and not considering my feelings at all....and maybe he feels because he has known me longer or because I was originally okay with and wanted the same future with her and him that he did, maybe that's why he is suggesting I hold back and coax her into the idea along with him....but I still have so many insecurities about this way of doing things, this way of moving forward until she's actually free to do more.... I'm afraid of watching them grow in their love and relationship and be affectionate in front of me, and having to show that I'm okay yet feeling resentment that he will not do the same with me in front of her because it might scare her away...the unbalance and unfairness of it all is hard to deal with and I'm afraid that at the end of this "phase" I will feel too much jealousy and pain at my needs not being met and my voice not being heard or considered that I will end up loosing them both.

I do want this to work. I want to feel excited again about all three of us being together.... I feel in my heart that I want a relationship with the both of them. I love my husband so much and don't want to loose him. There are times when we all hang out together that it feels right...the connection is there among all of us and it all "fits".....I want that feeling back. And most of all, I want my relationship with my husband back.

I know there are even more things to consider that I haven't even touched on, like our kids and also the fact that as of right now, she would never want anyone to know And wants to stay in the closet...The fact that she's going to be separated yet still legally married is a huge thing as well. Though she ultimately wants to get a divorce but is unsure of that timeline.....And I'm sure there are other issues I've forgotten to mention.

I need insight...constructive criticism is welcomed but I am more looking for advice on how to make this work right now...while its still so unfair and uneven....I need all of us to be on the same page....But it seems like because things are so unfair right now, and because she's not free to act upon her feelings, that a compromise is extremely hard to negotiate....someone is always feeling left out or hurt....I for one am extremely worried that my marriage won't survive past this stage of waiting and going at her pace and that's the number one thing I'd like to avoid...maybe that is selfish of me I'm not sure...I feel like I've tried to be understanding and that I've tried my best to give them want they want....I step back sometimes so they can enjoy some alone time together or I'll go in the other room and play with the kids so they can have time together since she sees him less than I do. And other things too....and I want alone time with her as well...I want to build our friendship and connection but it seems like theirs always takes precedence because I get to see my husband and be with him more than her....

I could probably add a lot more but I'll stop there....

Ugh. Please be gentle lol
Thanks for hearing me out.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi New2This3,

Re:

"But it seems like because things are so unfair right now, and because she's not free to act upon her feelings, that a compromise is extremely hard to negotiate ..."

What's stopping her from acting on her feelings?

I may be able to give you some advice, we shall see. You certainly have a difficult situation on your hands.

With sympathy,
Kevin T.

 

[New2This3]

Hi New2This3,

Re:


What's stopping her from acting on her feelings?

I may be able to give you some advice, we shall see. You certainly have a difficult situation on your hands.

With sympathy,
Kevin T.

I believe her faith has a lot to do with it. And I also believe that she cares a lot about what people think of her...and since this type of relationship is new to her, new to all three of us really, she doesn't want anyone to know....she's also not divorced yet and doesn't want to cheat or be accused of cheating....her family means a lot to her but they live 4 hours away and she feels she doesn't have many close friends around here so it's important to her what people will think.... I also think knowing that I'm now insecure and that my husband and I are having issues, I think she feels guilty and like a home wrecker.....

However, my husband feels that she is coming around and becoming more open to him and more understanding than How closed minded she was in the beginning.... They have kissed twice now in the past week but she still doesn't want me to know....he says that she wants to keep it special between him and her and doesn't want anyone else to find out....(((which makes me feel like she only wants a monogamous relationship with him instead)). he still tells me because he doesn't want me to think he is cheating or trying to have a relationship with her behind my back and he feels he trusts me more to be okay with their relationship than she would feel if it were him telling her about him and I kissing or being intimate......that in and of itself is wrong on a lot of levels because by telling me he is being disloyal to her and by her not wanting me to know, it makes me feel more insecure about them and about all three of us and how much it's going to take to get to a level where we can all be 100% trusting and loyal and honest with other....

It's actually like this a lot now that I think of it....a lot of one on one talks about the relationships and what's going on but I think only maybe two or three actual discussions with all three of us involved and making our voices heard. i actually told my husband today that we all need to talk together because I know for me, I need her to understand how all of this is making me feel....and I want us all to come to an agreement together.....I feel like it's unfair that my husband is trying to control the dynamics for the sake of only her feelings and how she is taking things when my feelings and needs should be just as important as theirs.

Am I completely off base? Or should I be the one sacrificing so much??

Sorry I went off on a tangent instead of just answering your question lol. It is a very difficult situation indeed.

 

[kdt26417]

Okay, so she is mostly holding herself back (due to her faith, social image, divorce and what have you), it's not you saying she can't do it. Therefore, I don't think it's fair of your husband to say you can't do stuff (kissing, intimacy, those kinds of things) with him. You're not stopping her; she shouldn't be stopping you. But that's what he's letting her do.

I don't think you're off base. I don't think you should be sacrificing so much. Maybe you guys can have a three-person sit-down where you can express your feelings and come to some reasonable agreements. Truthfully you should probably be having such sit-downs once a week, at least while there's so much upset.

I'm also concerned that she may not really want poly, she may not be suited for it. I am concerned that she doesn't seem to want to share your husband with you. I am also concerned that your husband is taking her side. He has given you an ultimatum that you must convince her to be intimate with him, or else he will leave you. That's asking way too much of you. You shouldn't have to pretend like you feel differently than you really do.

I know that you are sincere in wanting this triad to work. Though I would suggest making it a V, at least at first. Your husband can be the hinge of the V. You two ladies can just have a platonic relationship, at least for now. I say that because I don't want her getting intimate with you just because she thinks that's how she can earn intimacy with your husband.

There are many reasons why this whole thing may not work going forward. And most of those reasons have to do with the actions and attitude of your husband and her -- not of you. I think you're already doing everything you can. They have to pitch in too. This is a three-person arrangement. You can't pull the whole train by yourself.

Hopefully in time I'll think of more advice. Keep us posted on how things are going.
Regards,
Kevin T.

 

[Becca]

First, it doesn't sound at all like she's interested in a triad. She just wants to be friends, and it doesn't sound like there's any real spark between you and her. So start by letting that fantasy go.

Second, it sounds like she wants a monogamous relationship with your husband. And he doesn't sound like he's that committed to his relationship with you.

If he's giving ultimatums, then maybe you need to talk with him about what things would look like if you divorced. Property division, custody, support-- how would that all shake out? Be realists. What exactly is on the table?

If things are going to work out between you and him, he'll have to make a priority of your relationship. Maybe a brutally honest conversation can help him see that.

 

[New2This3]

Okay, so she is mostly holding herself back (due to her faith, social image, divorce and what have you), it's not you saying she can't do it. Therefore, I don't think it's fair of your husband to say you can't do stuff (kissing, intimacy, those kinds of things) with him. You're not stopping her; she shouldn't be stopping you. But that's what he's letting her do.

I don't think you're off base. I don't think you should be sacrificing so much. Maybe you guys can have a three-person sit-down where you can express your feelings and come to some reasonable agreements. Truthfully you should probably be having such sit-downs once a week, at least while there's so much upset.

I'm also concerned that she may not really want poly, she may not be suited for it. I am concerned that she doesn't seem to want to share your husband with you. I am also concerned that your husband is taking her side. He has given you an ultimatum that you must convince her to be intimate with him, or else he will leave you. That's asking way too much of you. You shouldn't have to pretend like you feel differently than you really do.

I know that you are sincere in wanting this triad to work. Though I would suggest making it a V, at least at first. Your husband can be the hinge of the V. You two ladies can just have a platonic relationship, at least for now. I say that because I don't want her getting intimate with you just because she thinks that's how she can earn intimacy with your husband.

There are many reasons why this whole thing may not work going forward. And most of those reasons have to do with the actions and attitude of your husband and her -- not of you. I think you're already doing everything you can. They have to pitch in too. This is a three-person arrangement. You can't pull the whole train by yourself.

Hopefully in time I'll think of more advice. Keep us posted on how things are going.
Regards,
Kevin T.

Thank you for your insight....I agree with a lot of your points. I will try to respond to each of them.

I agree that she is the one stopping herself from doing anything because of her own reasons, I have done my best to show her that I am okay with her loving my husband and he loving her etc. She has expressed her discomfort at the thought of us together intimately and her other jealousy issues but she also has admitted that she knows we are together and that she doesn't want to get in the way of us being together.... She still is definitely not sure about her feelings on sharing my husband though and that is most likely the root of all the other issues....when My husband and I have been intimate we tell her because she requested to be told and we wanted to respect her wishes in hopes of helping her become comfortable with it....instead it's hurt her and in turn made my husband hold back more so as not to hurt her ...... It's like she isn't outright saying she doesn't want this all to work, but she isn't ready for it either and my husband wants to go at her pace and hope that it leads to her being ready and comfortable for the type of dynamic and relationship that we all want....

As for the three person sit down once a week, I agree and would love that...but I am one to always want to talk about feelings and thoughts to make sure that I'm on the same page with everyone else....I feel like they get overwhelmed by it....they don't want to always talk about feelings...they sometimes feel overwhelmed by it all, by the ups and downs....and I don't want to end up pushing them away or becoming overbearing...but I do agree That we at least need to start having them more often...

I also have thought the same thing about her not wanting to be poly.. It is a big fear of mine. And that my husband will not let go of her if she chooses to not be a part of this in the end.....I don't see them ever leaving each other which makes my thoughts turn to them continuing a relationship secretly if it ever came down to her not wanting to be a part of what my husband and I are proposing .....maybe I'm way off base on that thought but it's one of my fears that I hope never comes true... And yes, I feel like he's giving me an ultimatum but not to make her feel comfortable with being intimate with him....he wants me to go at her pace and help her feel comfortable with us all being together ...make her feel welcomed and not guilty and help her to see that I am okay with her being a part of us...and he doesn't want to leave me...he says he doesn't want to have to choose because he wants us both in his life and wants a relationship with us both....but if I don't agree with that vision or future that he pictures then I am basically the one choosing to end things with him.....

I think that basically is what this is currently....a V with my husband as the hinge...her and I are just friends....I don't think she thinks she has to be intimate with me just so she can be intimate with him. They're relationship is blossoming on its own...she has become more comfortable and open with him....he says what would scare her before doesn't scare her much now and that's why he believes that eventually she will also be comfortable and open with us sharing a life as one big family together....but that we have to go at her pace.

Yes, I fear that I am trying to do as much as I can and its their actions and feelings that seem to be the only things that matter right now... I feel like I am the one who is being forced to step back and wait it out....I am so deeply afraid that it means that once this phase pans out, that like you said things just may not work out and I will end up loosing them both. I hate fearing that.

 

[New2This3]

First, it doesn't sound at all like she's interested in a triad. She just wants to be friends, and it doesn't sound like there's any real spark between you and her. So start by letting that fantasy go.

Second, it sounds like she wants a monogamous relationship with your husband. And he doesn't sound like he's that committed to his relationship with you.

If he's giving ultimatums, then maybe you need to talk with him about what things would look like if you divorced. Property division, custody, support-- how would that all shake out? Be realists. What exactly is on the table?

If things are going to work out between you and him, he'll have to make a priority of your relationship. Maybe a brutally honest conversation can help him see that.

I've only written about my fears and concerns....there have been times were her and I have hung out and the connection and spark is there....we have shared fantasies with each other about each other....she has shared them with my husband as well....but I think her fears, insecurities, guilt, jealousy, and her current situation with her husband interferes with her exploring any kind of relationship with me other than friendship.

He wants to work on our relationship...the problem is that he wants to do it within parameters that cater to her and not me and my needs and feelings.... We have talked about what would happen if I walked away, because he doesn't want to walk away or loose me, so if we split it would be me giving up on us..... And it's not something we both want...but yet we can't see eye to eye on the WAY or approach to helping us and our relationship.....I agree that he needs to make our relationship a priority as well ....

 

[kdt26417]

Re (from New2This3):

"... and he doesn't want to leave me ... he says he doesn't want to have to choose because he wants us both in his life and wants a relationship with us both ... but if I don't agree with that vision or future that he pictures then I am basically the one choosing to end things with him ..."

Sounds to me like he is trying to shift the responsibility for his decisions onto you.

If he wants to wait for her to move at her speed, then he needs to be patient and stop talking about breaking up with you. You mentioned that she is loosening up a bit so maybe there's some hope in that area.

In poly -- in fact in any kind of responsible nonmonogamy -- there needs to be consent on the part of all the adults in the equation. That means your consent also. You shouldn't *have* to give your consent. That wouldn't even be real consent. It should be up to you.

 

[New2This3]

Had a thought today....

I had a thought today after reading a few threads on here (this site has been very helpful).....and rather than post a new thread I figured I'd ask here since it gives some background to whats going on in my life at the current moment....

I understand that not every relationship dynamic will be the same across the board.....but generally, and specifically to V relationships, Does the hinge always have to 'share' details of their relationships with all involved?

For example, I find myself always asking him, so whats going on with K?
or "did you get to see her at the gym today?" or "how do you both feel about this that and the other part of your relationship together"...... and i dont think its jealousy causing me to ask, (although sometimes i admit it is) but mostly i feel like i ask because i want to be a part of that relationship he has with her.....and my thought today was that i shouldn't be acting that way or trying to force myself into their relationship....

I actually think that part of my personal insecurities and jealousy have something to do with always having a mind set before that if my husband and i were ever to actually venture into a poly lifestyle, that he and I would date someone together....his relationship with K kinda blossomed on its own, without us 'preparing' for it....so it feels like we have been adapting as things have been progressing and i feel excluded from being a part of that relationship....and maybe on some level, I am still expecting that it will end up as "us" dating her rather than 'they are dating each other" while "he and i are together"......but i'm still unsure on what that means when it comes to my friendship with her? how do i move past these feelings?

does any of that make any sense? :-/

 

[kdt26417]

Re:

"Does the hinge always have to 'share' details of their relationships with all involved?"

No ... but in some cases they do; it all depends on what works for the specific V in question. In my V for instance, the details are available if there's a reason to share and/or the details are requested. However, few intimate details have been shared in practice and that's only become increasingly true over time.

Re: dating K as a couple ... dating anyone as a couple in fact, is a, well, dubious proposition. It's better suited for swinging than for poly. It's like shoring up the original couple at the expense of the "third." If you really want an MFF triad here, you should just become a triad, three people together, three dyads together, and not a couple plus one. Otherwise you and S run the risk of becoming a dreaded unicorn hunter couple ...

This isn't to say that dating K as a couple is out of the question. But at the very least it would require the consent of all three people: you, S, and K.

I know, I'm being a wet blanket. Sorry about that.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[FallenAngelina]

....Does the hinge always have to 'share' details of their relationships with all involved?

No No No The only "rule" of poly is that all consent. The rest, you customize to fit your situation, personalities and preferences.

i want to be a part of that relationship he has with her.....and my thought today was that i shouldn't be acting that way or trying to force myself into their relationship....
....I am still expecting that it will end up as "us" dating her rather than 'they are dating each other" while "he and i are together"......but i'm still unsure on what that means when it comes to my friendship with her?

I am dating a couple and it's lovely, but only because the guy and I originally met and developed a friendship. We had quite a few dates, just us two, during which time there was zero discussion about couple dating. They, as a couple, never had designs on me and there was never an expectation that she and I would be friends. Things evolved, as many friendships do, to include other people. I met his GF and eventually they met my husband. The GF and I just happen to hit it off, so the three of us have dinners and overnights now, but there was never any expectation that this would be the case. Like any friendship, you have to just let things develop. Obviously, this isn't modeled much in sexual relationships, so you have to forge your own way, but you already know how to do this because you do it with new friends all of the time. Just let the story unfold and you'll find a much more satisfying experience than if you require things to look a certain way (AKA: "have expectations.")

...how do i move past these feelings?

You move past these feelings of insecurity (and possibly jealously) by focusing on your life instead of on you-as-half-of-a-couple. What do you dream about, think about? What makes you excited? What kinds of people are you drawn to? Insecurity can only be assuaged by you finding more of you. That's one big reason that couples who set out to date as a unit meet with failure. They are not bringing the whole of who they are to the new relationship.

 

[New2This3]

Re:


No ... but in some cases they do; it all depends on what works for the specific V in question. In my V for instance, the details are available if there's a reason to share and/or the details are requested. However, few intimate details have been shared in practice and that's only become increasingly true over time.

Re: dating K as a couple ... dating anyone as a couple in fact, is a, well, dubious proposition. It's better suited for swinging than for poly. It's like shoring up the original couple at the expense of the "third." If you really want an MFF triad here, you should just become a triad, three people together, three dyads together, and not a couple plus one. Otherwise you and S run the risk of becoming a dreaded unicorn hunter couple ...

This isn't to say that dating K as a couple is out of the question. But at the very least it would require the consent of all three people: you, S, and K.

I know, I'm being a wet blanket. Sorry about that.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

Thanks for the insight. it does help!

 

[New2This3]

I am dating a couple and it's lovely, but only because the guy and I originally met and developed a friendship. We had quite a few dates, just us two, during which time there was zero discussion about couple dating. They, as a couple, never had designs on me and there was never an expectation that she and I would be friends. Things evolved, as many friendships do, to include other people. I met his GF and eventually they met my husband. The GF and I just happen to hit it off, so the three of us have dinners and overnights now, but there was never any expectation that this would be the case. Like any friendship, you have to just let things develop. Obviously, this isn't modeled much in sexual relationships, so you have to forge your own way, but you already know how to do this because you do it with new friends all of the time. Just let the story unfold and you'll find a much more satisfying experience than if you require things to look a certain way (AKA: "have expectations.")

Thanks for sharing. This helps me realize that I should and need to get rid of the expectation right away before it messes with my emotions even more. In a way, this is what we all share now anyhow, K and S have "somewhat" a relationship, I'm married to S and then K and I hit it off and are good friends....I do need to just take a step back and let all the relationships go at their own pace and just see what happens.... its my fears and insecurities and jealousy that are overwhelming me right now....and of course, as I explained in previous posts, the way things are between me and S and how i feel that he has been treating me - that all has been overwhelming me and stressing me out as well.

You move past these feelings of insecurity (and possibly jealously) by focusing on your life instead of on you-as-half-of-a-couple. What do you dream about, think about? What makes you excited? What kinds of people are you drawn to? Insecurity can only be assuaged by you finding more of you. That's one big reason that couples who set out to date as a unit meet with failure. They are not bringing the whole of who they are to the new relationship.

THANK YOU for this!!!! I really need to do this. I feel like not only will it distract me from the stress of "my marriage is falling apart"....but perhaps it will help me find myself again and become happier with myself. And i suppose it will make my husband happy too, given the ultimatum he has made about going at K's pace....i will have time to kill it really is a very slow pace given that she doesnt want to progress any faster until her situation is fixed.....i only hope that the distance I put between S and I while focusing on myself wont become permanent, that in the end it will bring us back together as a couple and help strengthen our relationship. But yes, thank you. Your advice and insight really helps.

 

[New2This3]

a few random thoughts from today

Opportunities are presenting itself in our lives and big changes are on the horizon.....

1) K is moving into her own apartment (separating from her husband) on Oct. 1st.

2) S has been unemployed, but recently has a strong possibility that he will have a new job very soon....he will find out in two weeks.

3) S has an appointment on Monday about getting some funding for college - he is interested in pursuing a degree but only if he can obtain some funding for it.

4) I will be heading back to college part time at the end of Sept. while still working full time.

so needless to say.....quality time is going to be even harder to share among all three of us and all of our kids. There are pros and cons. but overall, i am feeling excitement over having things to fill up the time rather than dwell on the things that are so off right now.

 

[Norwegianpoly]

People have different ways of sharing in V relationships. With us, I share very little sexual or/and emotionally intimate stuff but very much of what I call the family stuff: daily events, what is my boyfriend up to, his life decitions etc. These things are also stuff that my men discuss with each other.

 

[FallenAngelina]

But yes, thank you. Your advice and insight really helps.

Happy to have said something helpful for you. Let us know how things go.

 

[Magdlyn]

New2This, welcome.


I am sorry, but you guys are in way over your heads.

K is Christian? And has only had one lover, her soon to be ex husband.

Therefore, she should not be messing around with your husband. Even if she and he are not having sex, Jesus forbids lusting in your heart after someone else's spouse. She must keep herself in check until she is at least legally separated, if not formally divorced. Is she talking to a lawyer? Does her lawyer know she is in love with, and living with, another man and HIS wife?

She has been living with you two now for several weeks or months? Goodness, that sounds terrible. It's one thing to help out a PLATONIC friend who is splitting from a spouse, but if one of you has a huge-ass crush on her, and she is sorely tempted into having sex with him, that could severely jeopardize her divorce agreement. The courts do not look kindly on adultery and abandonment.

Also, she is a drowning insecure woman who has depended on one man to meet her companionship and sexual needs all her adult life. Now she's just switching that neediness to YOUR husband. He is flattered, he is hot for her, and he is acting like a FOOL.

When my ex h and I first tried poly, he also got a huge crush/fell in love with a woman who was jealous of the relationship he and I had. We'd been together 20 years! When she came to visit for a week or two at a time, I gave my blessing for them to sleep together (and have sex if they wanted, and they did want), every night. But when I wanted sex and intimate connection when she was there, my h would wait til she was otherwise occupied, and give me an 8 minute standing up quickie in the bathroom, so that she wouldn't know, and become envious or jealous! It was ridiculous.

2 things you can do: educate yourself. Reading here is a good start. Read also this article on poly hell: http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/are-you-in-poly-hell

Read 2 books: More Than Two, and Opening Up.

Your husband is doing everything wrong. You guys have kids, she has kids, she is walking on thin ice messing around with another guy while she is still married, he is telling you to just accept the entire mess or he will leave you, etc., etc. He is thinking with his dick, and is all puffed up and turned on, by being the white knight to a damsel in distress! Oy. Good grief.

I am glad she is moving out, but October is a long way away. Lots more hurts can and will happen to you. And those 2 idiots (sorry) don't want to sit down and talk about their FEELINGS and plans with you? They need to grow the fuck up. I'd be so angry. I'd be reading them both the riot act. Just who do they think they are? You've got babies to nurture and protect and they are having this wild affair in the midst of her divorce? It's unethical, it's juvenile and it's irresponsible. Period.

 

[Magdlyn]

Here is an excerpt from the poly hell article

COMMON PITFALLS IN OPEN RELATIONSHIPS

Many people who are in a primary relationship stumble into an outside relationship either by choice or by chance, and once involved, things can go beautifully or can go terribly awry. Here are some of the most common problems that develop and some ideas for either avoiding them or effectively addressing them should they arise.

The most typical poly dilemmas are inevitably created if the partner that has an outside relationship devotes too much time and energy to the new relationship and to some extent ignores or neglects the partner at home.

On the one hand, this is understandable as a new romance, even if casual or “secondary,” is often imbued with that infamous “New Relationship Energy,” or NRE, which involves a lot of fantasy and projection. When we first get involved with someone, we imagine them to be the perfect person and ideal romantic partner we have been longing for, since we don't know them very well yet and do not know all their bad habits and annoying behaviors. There is an unbeatable combination of novelty, mystery, and chemistry, mixed with our own romantic fantasies and the fact that our new partner is on their best behavior and trying to impress us by exhibiting their most attractive qualities. So there is some excuse for getting distracted by the “shiny new toy” aspect of a hot new love affair and want to spend a lot of time exploring this new person and thinking about them obsessively.

On the other hand, it is understandable that the partner who is left at home will feel extremely hurt and threatened by this new relationship that seems to be taking over your life. So some compromise must be struck between the compelling desire to bask in this fun and exciting new experience and the primary partner's need for reassurance, security, and attention...

And it goes on from there.

 

[New2This3]

New2This, welcome.

I am sorry, but you guys are in way over your heads.

K is Christian? And has only had one lover, her soon to be ex husband.

Therefore, she should not be messing around with your husband. Even if she and he are not having sex, Jesus forbids lusting in your heart after someone else's spouse. She must keep herself in check until she is at least legally separated, if not formally divorced. Is she talking to a lawyer? Does her lawyer know she is in love with, and living with, another man and HIS wife?

Yes on all points. They're aren't messing around. They just have fallen in love and I understand that she is well aware of it being wrong and that is one of the conflicts and guilt she has in her heart because of it....I do not believe she has a lawyer yet....

She has been living with you two now for several weeks or months?

No. She is still living at home with her husband and kids. Yes we offered her our place if she needed somewhere to go, but she declined for many reasons and is now set to move into her own apartment in October.

Also, she is a drowning insecure woman who has depended on one man to meet her companionship and sexual needs all her adult life. Now she's just switching that neediness to YOUR husband. He is flattered, he is hot for her, and he is acting like a FOOL.

Of course I have these same thoughts as well.

2 things you can do: educate yourself. Reading here is a good start. Read also this article on poly hell: http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/are-you-in-poly-hell

Read 2 books: More Than Two, and Opening Up.

Thank you for the suggestions. I actually downloaded More than Two last night on my kindle....

Your husband is doing everything wrong. You guys have kids, she has kids, she is walking on thin ice messing around with another guy while she is still married, he is telling you to just accept the entire mess or he will leave you, etc., etc. He is thinking with his dick, and is all puffed up and turned on, by being the white knight to a damsel in distress! Oy. Good grief.

I've thought of this as well. But he's sometimes too blinded by his feelings to hear me out....and I dont want to push the matter, maybe that is wrong of me for not doing so I'm not sure.

I am glad she is moving out, but October is a long way away. Lots more hurts can and will happen to you. And those 2 idiots (sorry) don't want to sit down and talk about their FEELINGS and plans with you? They need to grow the fuck up. I'd be so angry. I'd be reading them both the riot act. Just who do they think they are? You've got babies to nurture and protect and they are having this wild affair in the midst of her divorce? It's unethical, it's juvenile and it's irresponsible. Period.

I wouldn't call it a wild affair....we are all friends right now...yes boundaries and borders have been crossed that shouldn't have, I do admit to that.....And yes, I do get angry at this whole thing....but what else can I do but try to ride it out? the alternative is a husband who won't listen/cooperate so I separate from him?? loosing a close friend whom I DO care a lot about?

we all do know we have our kids to think about....there's way more thoughts/emotions/"what-if" scenarios that have crossed my mind AND that HAVE been talked about than what i've mentioned on here.....

but its all in limbo right now....idk what else to say or how else to explain things......

 

[GalaGirl]

I am so sorry you struggle. This is all kinds of messed up.

If another POV helps any? As a stranger reading it, it sounds like this to me: "Relationship broken. Add more people." And now you are finding out that it does NOT work. It's only ramped up the intensity/amount of problems you were having with your husband.

Before K there were already problems in the marriage:

• traumatic experience, then in a rut
• then pregnant, better for a bit
• communication dropped, new rut
• S thinks there is no future left for this marriage.

Instead of getting outside help or starting the process to disband respectfully? He has an emotional affair with K and hid it. Cheating on you is not treating you well.

He also went after a broken lady. (How's that good? Other than being easy pickings for him?)

You were upset by the affair, but were excited at the idea that here was this handy person you could play out your triad fantasy with and get to keep the "lost interest" husband after all. (Even though he has been neglecting the marriage and kinda meh on it even before K arrives.)

K is going through divorce, has a crush on your husband, but not you. She sounds like she is having second thoughts and feels guilt/bad about the cheating. Rather than let her go so she can heal from bad choices, your husband pushes her boundaries and much as she allows. That sounds kinda predatory to me. Wearing her down. That is not treating her kindly either. What is WITH this guy?

You were wanting her to fulfill your triad fantasy. You seem to be realizing this was wrong to do and getting over it. That still leaves the husband problem.

K is about to leave and move to her own flat. Hopefully healthier for her and her kids too. Now your husband gives you an ultimatum to recruit your help in pressuring this woman to continue in a thing that does not work for her and you don't seem to want any more (triad) before she breaks too far off. Not just dump her STBX husband but your husband too.

So you husband pressures YOU. That if you want a future with him?

• You need to be okay with him and her together
• You need to make her see that you are okay
• You need to make her feel that you are comfortable with all 3 being together.

You actually don't need to be doing any of that. It is not what you feel. You do not feel ok here -- you feel angry.

It is also NOT your job to be co-bully. If you are best friends with her, you would not be helping him to pressure her. And if he was interested in treating you well, he wouldn't be asking you such FRESH and inappropriate things in the first place!

And what quality of future is he offering you anyway? One with more of these shenanigans? Who would be eager to sign up for THAT?

He is behaving like a jerk. Since there were problems here with him before K ever arrived? Rather than jump through hoops to keep him, you may consider leaving. However he behaved in the past?

In the present he cheated, he will not listen, is not cooperative, he is giving you ultimatums, he is wanting to recruit you to pressure his emotional affair partner to go against her grain. That behavior does not add up to treating you kindly or well. Does not treat her well either. He is behaving like a loose canon.

That last bit is probably just a tiny bit exaggerated because I was hurt by this proposal so it's probably coming out harsher than he said it to me

Him giving you ultimatums to manipulate your behavior is not you calling it "too harsh" because you are upset. What he is doing IS mean/harsh. I think you called it right and feel uncomfortable with it. Rightly so. It is not your husband suddenly regaining interest in a relationship with you. That is him having an interest in USING you to ensnare K. Gross.

I hope K does get out. I hope you do too. This is a mess.

boundaries and borders have been crossed that shouldn't have, I do admit to that.....And yes, I do get angry at this whole thing....but what else can I do but try to ride it out? the alternative is a husband who won't listen/cooperate so I separate from him??

Yes.

• You could say "No" to his ultimatum.
  
• You could also seriously contemplate life without him even if it is scary/hard to think about.

I will be heading back to college part time at the end of Sept. while still working full time.

It's a lot, but it could also be a fresh start for you. Leave husband, return to college, work full time, parent kids. Leave all the mess behind you and turn over a new leaf. Take some time to heal, and if you still want to poly, be more selective about how you choose to poly WITH. Pick healthy people.

I suggest you get outside advice from a local professional. Be it a counselor, a mediator, a lawyer, or a combo to address all these layers. Take it one chunk at a time. I think at this time, you could quietly check out what your options are on your own and learn about the laws in your area pertaining to divorce. Perhaps waiting till in school gives you access to more affordable school health resources -- like personal counseling?

But do deal with it and think it out. Make a plan.

Because if K goes way, you are still back at Square 1 -- in a rut, husband thinks there's no future in this marriage, not treating you well. That's why "relationship broken add more people" doesn't work. The foundational problems are still there even if you take a long side trip. It circles back around.

I am so sorry. I do hope you are gaining clarity in your situation and can take healthier steps for YOU. Step way back.

Let K deal with K problems.
Let husband deal with his.
YOU deal with yours and don't get involved in drama. Say "no" to any bullying or other shenanigans.

Everyone carries their own baggage. That is fair. You do not have to carry other people's load.

I think you could examine this fear:

(I) am extremely worried that my marriage won't survive past this stage of waiting and going at her pace and that's the number one thing I'd like to avoid

Why are you so afraid of ending a wonky marriage where you are not being treated well? What bad thing would happen that you are trying to avoid?

Why this desire for "I keep my marriage going no matter what even if it is killing me" on the front burner?

Why are you not willing for the front burner thing to be "I keep my health and my well being above all else?" You have dependents. They need a healthy mom, not a stressed out and overwhelmed to the max one.

Galagirl