Trying to process things

[arctic]

My partner and I are exploring the idea of an open relationship. Or maybe more accurately- we've been in some form of an open relationship from the start, and are just now attempting to learn how to acknowledge and communicate about it in healthy ways. We've been romantically involved on and off for over 10 years and there's never been a formal commitment, we've both dated other people but seemed to always come back together.

Immaturity and life circumstances made a traditional scenario unrealistic in our 20s, but life is becoming more stable and things have taken a more serious turn. We've just moved in together, we're getting to know each other's families, we talk about the future and possibility of kids, etc.. We've been exclusive for at least a couple years now but have agreed that if (and most likely when) that changes in the future, we'll discuss it with each other first. No specific rules yet, although we want to remain each other's primary relationship. I'm ok with this in theory and based on the reality of my past, but I'm still struggling to process and come to terms with it in some ways.

There was a pretty bad period a while ago where we were sleeping together very occasionally, and I was in a vulnerable place emotionally due to taking on some difficult but necessary "inner work". I told him he was free to do whatever he wanted, but asked that he tell me if he slept with anyone else, because I was only seeing him and wanted there to be transparency. He was in fact having sexual encounters with other people, but rather than tell me when I asked about it, he'd just get angry and defensive and end the conversation.

We've talked all this through at this point, there were complex reasons for those dynamics at that specific time (jealousy wasn't an insurmountable issue in the past).. but some of the details are recent discoveries and truthfully I'm still pretty hurt. I have fears about his capacity/willingness to work through his own internal issues that contributed to those conflicts, but I also believe in the longevity of our connection. So ultimately I want to move past it. I don't know what the future holds but I want to do my part to get past my insecurities and conditioned reactions to the concept of non-monogamy.. Not sure what I'm looking for exactly, but maybe posting here is a step in that direction.

 

[Evie]

Hi and welcome. I hope you feel a little liberated for writing all that down. I'm don't think I can give any advice, but I wish you well on this journey. I actually kinda envy that you're already talking poly (from what I gathered). I had a relationship that started very similarly, but it turned out that when we started cohabiting, we couldn't actually talk about these things as openly as our history would have believed. It's like we both bought into the narrative that we'd had our wild youths (frequently together, but even more frequently apart) and it was now time to settle down and live a mono traditional life. Needless to say we were both very lost in that and I finally saw it and pulled the pin. Because we never actually learned to say exactly what we really wanted.

So, I just wish you all the best in radical honesty. I hope you can just lay it all out, both of you, so you can decide if you want to design a life together that fits both if your aspirations.

 

[tdh]

I don't know what the future holds but I want to do my part to get past my insecurities and conditioned reactions to the concept of non-monogamy

Does this mean this is the path no matter what person you are with? You just want an ethically non-monogamous life? If it is great! Focus on creating that no matter what your current partner is doing/saying.

He was in fact having sexual encounters with other people, but rather than tell me when I asked about it, he'd just get angry and defensive and end the conversation.

This seems like a red flag in my book. If the only real rule was honestly and that basic request couldn't be met I would take the sage advice of Maya Angelou, "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time." You have to accept people where they are and if they do not show they want to do their inner work, that might be who you get.

have fears about his capacity/willingness to work through his own internal issues that contributed to those conflicts, but I also believe in the longevity of our connection

This is something to talk about with the person/people you did your inner work with Longevity of a connection is great but does not mean it is positive or healthy. I would think hard before proceeding, especially with the discussion of kids, if that is the real security or a false one by comparison.

I currently have a friend stuck because she was with a partner in a monogamish type of relationship, had a kid, she found out he lied about partners even though she would have been fine with some play together, keeps lying about little things (not even relationship related), ready to move on from the lies but can't ever really move on from that person due to the kid tying them together. Now that being said, kids do not have to be an anchor but it isn't uncommon that they are.

It is worthwhile to take a beat and really think is longevity actually care and security? If the worst happens, do you want the forced bond over your life if you get have kids? Can you really have an ethical non-monogamous you want starting with someone who already lied?

Start from, "this is what I am looking forward" and see if this matches.

 

[GalaGirl]

Or maybe more accurately- we've been in some form of an open relationship from the start, and are just now attempting to learn how to acknowledge and communicate about it in healthy ways.

I will admit to being kinda surprised. X years together on and off, then several years exclusive for a few years for a total of 10 years knowing each other. And just now you are trying to learn to communicate in a healthy way with each other better?

Is there other stuff that will need "catching up" for open/poly to go better? How will plans for TTC fit in there? Some couples spend a while talking, maybe even years before actually opening.

There was a pretty bad period a while ago where we were sleeping together very occasionally, and I was in a vulnerable place emotionally due to taking on some difficult but necessary "inner work". I told him he was free to do whatever he wanted, but asked that he tell me if he slept with anyone else, because I was only seeing him and wanted there to be transparency. He was in fact having sexual encounters with other people, but rather than tell me when I asked about it, he'd just get angry and defensive and end the conversation.

I guess that's an area to work on. Using condoms/safer sex practices is reasonable enough to ask for.

You can ask "Has there been anyone else since the last time we were together?" and he can answer. Just like he could ask you and you could answer. Not like a big deal thing if you are in an open/poly thing... but to be able to give informed consent if you want to share sex again together and not be in the dark you have to actually talk. It's part of continuing consent.

You are each responsible for your own sex health hygiene. You can't be mind readers. Kinda have to ask. And if you aren't TTC right now, you could be using condoms with him.

Why's using BC and sharing basic sex health hygiene info a problem for him?

We've talked all this through at this point, there were complex reasons for those dynamics at that specific time (jealousy wasn't an insurmountable issue in the past).. but some of the details are recent discoveries and truthfully I'm still pretty hurt. I have fears about his capacity/willingness to work through his own internal issues that contributed to those conflicts, but I also believe in the longevity of our connection. So ultimately I want to move past it.

Doesn't the longevity of the connection hinge on his ability to own this stuff? And work out his ability to the honest and up front with you if you are going to do open/poly?

Cuz if he can't do that, and it is same old song, different day? This up and downy thing for 10 years that's not all that great or healthy? Maybe you let it go. Or adjust expectations.

If you still are willing to do open/poly with him? You might have to change your expectations of him to be more realistic to match what he CAN deliver. Maybe you don't have him as your primary and potential future co-parent. But more like a secondary or tertiary that you aren't doing nesting partner kinda stuff with him if you are going to practice a hierarchical model. Less entanglements.

There's a lot of ways to move past something.

I don't know what the future holds but I want to do my part to get past my insecurities and conditioned reactions to the concept of non-monogamy.

That part sounds like your stuff.

You could do some reading to educate yourself. Maybe start at

Practical Polyamory

Information on relationship skills, education and activism information related to the practice of polyamory; polyamory media resource.

practicalpolyamory.com

Subpages - kathylabriola.com

To promote the private practice for Kathy Labriola, Counselor/Nurse and to provide educational materials for the community.

www.kathylabriola.com

Maybe read "Opening Up" and other books.

Sort out deep compatibility issues now that you are living together. Try open/poly first with BC and safer sex practices in place and put off children and other commitments til later. That would be my suggestion.

Maybe it turns out you can do open/poly fine with people who match your style. Just not with him because his style of "doing" open/poly doesn't match yours.

HTH!
Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hello arctic,

It sounds like you need to do some digging into what made your partner's actions so painful in the past. Like you are struggling to forgive him and to rebuild your trust in him. I don't know if you could go into more detail about what made him get angry and defensive when you asked if he was having sex with anyone. Also more detail on why that was difficult for you, and on what makes that continue to hurt you now. It sounds like there are some complex reasons, I think we could help you better if we knew all of those reasons.

Can he do better now than he has done in the past? Will he do better? How can you be sure? I don't mean that as a rhetorical question, I am honestly wondering what has changed for (you and) him that would convince him to act differently. By the same token, what has remained the same? You mentioned having insecurities and conditioned reactions to the concept of nonmonogamy. Can you describe that conditioning and where it is coming from? Certainly society in general spews out a lot of monogamous dogma, but I am wondering if you also have some more personal experiences in your past that help prop up that dogma today.

Hopefully the posts in this thread have helped you so far.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[arctic]

Thanks for the replies! I'd love to answer all the questions individually but it may be easier to just give some general background and then circle back to some of the other points you've all made.

How things ended up this way- I'm in recovery (4 years sober). Shortly before I got sober, we were going to try to give a real relationship a chance.. Without going into all the details, I sabotaged it pretty badly and felt very guilty. So afterwards there was an element of self-punishment- he'd dodge the question, get defensive, or blatantly not respond if I asked if he was seeing anyone else, and I knew in my gut he was.. but I wasn't about to have any of my own fun with other partners because I didn't feel I deserved to. Not to mention sex was (and still is) very different for me now than it was when I was disassociated from my body and emotions.

I felt safe with him and totally understand I probably needed more from him at that time than he could give.. but I still didn't think it was unreasonable to ask for transparency regarding other sexual partners. When we've discussed it since then, his rationalization for lying was that "we weren't together so he had no obligation to tell me anything." Be that as it may, if he had allowed me the space to be even slightly upset and express how I felt about it after he eventually told me (super casually months afterwards- as if I should have no reaction whatsoever).. it would've been easier to let go of.

What changed to make me think things could be different now? Healing occurred, I got into therapy to address childhood trauma/dysfunction stuff, I let go of unrealistic expectations regarding him and the relationship. Somehow we started bonding on a deeper level and are now closer than we've ever been. I couldn't tell you exactly what that process was like for him, but he's expressed that he wants to be exclusive- at least for the time being. Really I'm fine with it either way, as long as there's honest communication. I've actually been the one to suggest an open relationship in the past, but I guess it was just never a serious consideration until now.

So why does it still hurt? When he initially told me about the timeframe where he was seeing me and other people, he said he hadn't had sex with anyone, but there were other physical acts. That was painful but I accepted it and healed slowly. Then not even 2 months ago, right before we moved in together, he tells me there was actually sex one time. That was yet another shock and I've tried to suppress it to some extent. But the reality is I don't feel I can trust him right now. He's apologized but expected me to be over it literally by the next day, which just again makes it harder to let go of. A couple weeks ago someone made a comment about it that made it sound like there was more than one incident.. and it made me realize how close to the surface it still actually is. I don't want to keep finding out half-truths slowly, after the fact.. and I don't want to have to continually suppress my emotions for the sake of keeping the peace. So I'm aware there's been significant damage to the foundation and several red flags, but I guess I'm not ready to give up on it yet. We've made progress I didn't think was possible in the past couple years, so I'm hoping it can continue despite the setbacks, but I also know ultimately I can only take care of and control myself. Thanks for listening and sorry if this is still unclear..

 

[GalaGirl]

Be that as it may, if he had allowed me the space to be even slightly upset and express how I felt about it after he eventually told me (super casually months afterwards- as if I should have no reaction whatsoever).. it would've been easier to let go of.

It that one of the problems? He doesn't want to be "inconvenienced" by you having emotions even though you are back together again?

So why does it still hurt? When he initially told me about the timeframe where he was seeing me and other people, he said he hadn't had sex with anyone, but there were other physical acts. That was painful but I accepted it and healed slowly. Then not even 2 months ago, right before we moved in together, he tells me there was actually sex one time. That was yet another shock and I've tried to suppress it to some extent.

It sounds like he only counts PIV sex as "actual sex." Where I think any sexual activity is "sex." Oral sex? That's sex. Digital sex? That's sex. Different kinds of outercourse? That's sex. Mutual or parallel masturbation? That's sex. Phone sex? Still sex. The list goes on and on.

What do YOU think sex is? And at what point does he need to tell you there's been new people he shared sexual activity with? Presumably before he shares sex again with you, right?

But the reality is I don't feel I can trust him right now.

So don't. It's ok not to trust him until you see his behavior changes. You could just expect more of same here til it does.

He's apologized but expected me to be over it literally by the next day, which just again makes it harder to let go of.

Not a realistic expectation -- people don't "just get over things" like that in a day.

A couple weeks ago someone made a comment about it that made it sound like there was more than one incident.. and it made me realize how close to the surface it still actually is. I don't want to keep finding out half-truths slowly, after the fact.. and I don't want to have to continually suppress my emotions for the sake of keeping the peace.

Why do you suppress your emotions rather than expressing them?

Why's the "outer appearance of peace" more valuable to you than you having actual inner peace?

So I'm aware there's been significant damage to the foundation and several red flags, but I guess I'm not ready to give up on it yet.

That's fine.

But what are the dealbreakers? Your lines in the sand? I figure you know your own limit of tolerance.

We've made progress I didn't think was possible in the past couple years, so I'm hoping it can continue despite the setbacks, but I also know ultimately I can only take care of and control myself. Thanks for listening and sorry if this is still unclear..

Sounds like you want to keep trying here. I hope he decides to try better as well.

Good that you know that you can only take care of and control yourself, so if he hits a dealbreaker? You take care of you even if it means by walking away. Be careful of sunk cost fallacy.

Galagirl

 

[tdh]

Thanks for the details artic. Know it is hard to share and figure things out sometimes.

What changed to make me think things could be different now? Healing occurred, I got into therapy to address childhood trauma/dysfunction stuff, I let go of unrealistic expectations regarding him and the relationship.

've tried to suppress it to some extent. But the reality is I don't feel I can trust him right now. He's apologized but expected me to be over it literally by the next day,

So one thing you might realize in partnerships post healing is they only work as expected when you are in the unrealistic negative cycle. You are letting go of unrealistic expectations yet the old you might have just suppressed emotions and detached emotionally and he expected that version of you. You have changed but how he thinks of you/your relationship has not. Is it possible part of the attraction for him was the easy come/easy go detachment?

I have been told some relationships never quite work when someone becomes sober as the non-sober bond was a big part of the actual relationships.

When we've discussed it since then, his rationalization for lying was that "we weren't together so he had no obligation to tell me anything."

If you are having sex with someone, they have a obligation to tell you there is a risk for you. They do not have to go into detail unless explicitly asked I would say but a simple acknowledgement so you can make your own risk assessment to respectful. A simple, "I am seeing other people" type of thing.

but he's expressed that he wants to be exclusive- at least for the time being. Really I'm fine with it either way,

Remember to focus on what you want. This line confuses me a bit as before you did mention about getting past your issues with non-monogamy. What do you truly want here?