Trying to understand

K

Krissy

New member
hello,

My husband and I have been married for almost 12 years, together almost 13. We have 3 kids, 2 of them together. We have been monogamous during this time. This past weekend he fully opened up to me about his feelings and identifying with polyamory. I am monogamous and only want or desire to be with my husband. There has been feelings of betrayal, hurt, confusion, of being lost, questioning everything, fights, me wanting to throat punch him (several times), and jealousy. After calming down some (okay a lot), talking to him, prayer, and thinking, I feel as if I need to understand polyamory more to be there for him and to give him what I can in this aspect. I have a million questions and concerns and have no clue what they are yet. We have boundaries we have to figure out and things we have to grow together and of course I understand there will times we will hit a brick wall but I feel as if I need to try for him, for our kids, and for our marriage.


Krissy
 
Krissy

I feel as if I need to understand polyamory more to be there for him and to give him what I can in this aspect. I have a million questions and concerns and have no clue what they are yet. We have boundaries we have to figure out and things we have to grow together and of course I understand there will times we will hit a brick wall but I feel as if I need to try for him, for our kids, and for our marriage.


No, you need to learn and understand but you are not obliged to try anything if you are not OK with it. You might want to read two books
"opening Up"
"More Than Two"

i suggest you do this BEFORE agreeing to anything.

You need to understand that just about any form of non monogamy only works in most cases with the total commitment of BOTH partners, and you are about to enter into something that definitely has the potential to end your marriage.

And understand these boundaries that you are talking about discussing have a tendency to go out the window once emotions get involved so included in your conversation should be how you are going to "re-negotiate" boundaries when issues occur.

I would also delve deeply into what has occurred that has made your husband suddenly 'discover" his polyamorous nature. if he already has a partner picked out or is talking to someone he is cheating on you to start out with.

You also may want to discuss with him on what his reaction will be should you decide you do not want to be the mono partner. many times men push their wives into non monogamy only to discover that when the shoe is on the other foot it is not so much fun and then all of a sudden they want monogamy again.

Should you become a participant he better understand you will have much more opportunity to engage in other relationships than he will.

I pushed my husband into non monogamy, and while he stuck around, he has never fully accepted it and it is on the verge on ending my marriage. if you can get 'all in" then fine, but you do not have to sacrifice your needs and wants just to satisfy anyone.

I think most of sensible folks on here will tell you to proceed with caution, especially since it is obvious this is a shock to your thought process.

Good luck to you.
 
I am sorry you struggle.

I feel as if I need to understand polyamory more to be there for him and to give him what I can in this aspect.
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Ok. What does "be there for him" actually MEAN in this context? What exactly is your husband asking of you?

  • To (Open the marriage) so he can have other partners? (He could have other partners via divorce too. Opening the marriage isn't the only way.)
  • To be (Open to hearing about his inner thoughts and feelings) so you both can create emotional/mental intimacy between you? (That sounds reasonable in a marriage. If he doesn't share more of himself because he worries you are going to punch him in the throat if he does... there's stuff there to sort out.)
  • Or both?
  • Or something else?

And what is husband giving you, how is he there for you? What are you asking of him?

Are his requests of you reasonable, rational and doable?
Are your requests of him reasonable, rational and doable?

Or these requests incompatible or mutually exclusive?

If you need education, here's some starting links. They are "hub pages" that lead to other reading links.

http://practicalpolyamory.com/downloadabledocuments.html

http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles

https://www.morethantwo.com/polyhowto.html

http://openingup.net/resources/free-downloads-from-opening-up/


But remember that your consent belongs to you. You don't have to participate in things just because husband wants to go there. You are allowed to say "No, thank you. Not for me. Where you want to go? I wish you well but there I cannot follow. So we need to talk about me getting off this bus first before you continue on your journey."

I feel as if I need to try for him, for our kids, and for our marriage.
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I might be reading this wrong. It's not totally clear. But I am concerned that you are thinking about consenting to participate in an Open Model you don't especially want for yourself just to avoid having to talk about breaking up so he is FREE TO pursue the open stuff he wants and you are FREE FROM doing things you don't want.

Like you want to "preserve the marriage shape" more than you want to "preserve the well being and health of the people."

I'd put people before shape. You are "people" too. Do not subsume yourself to the relationship shape.

Galagirl
 
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sexyserb said:
you need to learn and understand but you are not obliged to try anything if you are not OK with it
...
you do not have to sacrifice your needs and wants just to satisfy anyone
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This is perfectly true.

There are also well functioning poly-mono relationships, at least a few on this forum. I am quite happy in mine for the moment, although it has been a rough path.

More then two is a webside as well. It may be a good start, I started there. Look through it, and make sure your husband does too if he hasn't, so that you two at least get a similar understanding of polyamory
https://www.morethantwo.com/

Take your time. Look up the concepts, sort through your feelings so that you know what is true and what is prejudice, get an understanding what your husband actually wants/expects from polyamory. Take a close look on the relationship between the two of you and see if there are problems to work through first.

If you have specific - or even general - questions, that's what the Poly Relationships forum is for. We'll be happy to help.
 
I would join in urging a great deal of caution.

I would also disagree with GalaGirl regarding "the marriage shape," as though it were some arbitrary invention imposed on you.

Think of it this way: you currently have a functioning partnership, a household that includes three children. Whatever you do, you have a responsibility to your children and to one another to keep that household functioning.

You may also have community connections you hope to maintain, at church, in your town, in other areas of your life, that support your household and help you to function well together.

Paying too much attention to what either one of you "needs" or "wants", as though that is the main or the only consideration, puts everything else at risk.

Does it seem plausible to you that your husband can go off and pursue other relationships - serious, intimate, committed relationships - while at the same time maintaining your household as a functioning whole, living up to his responsibilities to you, the children, and your place in the world, and maintaining the ties to your community that sustain you and your household?

Since you live - as I gather from his thread - in Texas, I suppose that maintaining community ties would depend critically on him being "discreet" (that is to say, furtive) lest those community ties be severed . . . but then he would have to lead a double life, and you would be in the position of having to enable him in that without being able to confide in anyone in your local community.

That is likely to distort a lot of relationships: his relationships with others with whom he is intimate - and I speak from experience on this - his relationship with you, your relationship with the community, your relationship with your own children.

Please avoid the trap of thinking that all of this is just about the needs and wants of your husband, or your own needs and wants. There is much, much more at stake than that.

There may be a way to maintain functioning households that are consistent with the ethical practice of non-monogamy, but I suspect the conditions that would make such an arrangement possible are available only to a very few people and that only under very special circumstances.

Where you and where I live, at least for the foreseeable future, monogamy may be the only game in town.
 
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I would also disagree with GalaGirl regarding "the marriage shape," as though it were some arbitrary invention imposed on you.
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I don't think marriage is some arbitrary invention. I think marriage is a serious commitment.

But sometimes people marry too young or they change over time. The marriage is no longer what they really want. But they keep trying to keep the marriage going to "save face" or "avoid divorce" or "for the kids" or some other reason other than truly wanting to be together in a marital union with this partner.

Maybe they try to use poly as a bandaid -- to help them endure a marriage they no longer really have heart in.

If my spouse no longer really wanted to be married to me but was sticking just to maintain the look of the thing? That's not healthy for him. That's also robbing me of opportunity to have a spouse who really wants to be there with me. Not great for me. The marriage is being continued... but at the expense of the actual well being of the people within it. Like just going through the motions.

I'm just saying to think this out carefully. Not just agree to Open the marriage for the husband's enjoyment or so the kid's don't experience divorce.

Her well being counts too.

Galagirl
 
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GalaGirl said:
I don't think marriage is some arbitrary invention. I think marriage is a serious commitment.

But sometimes people marry too young or they change over time. The marriage is no longer what they really want. But they keep trying to keep the marriage going to "save face" or "avoid divorce" or "for the kids" or some other reason other than truly wanting to be together in a marital union with this partner.
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Maybe so, but it's far from clear that's the situation here.

Krissy, it seems to me you and Jeremy really need to dig into what it is that prompts him to see polyamory as his "path", something for which he seems to think himself destined.

What he says is this:

For the most part it has been a healthy marriage, but I've always felt out of place. I love my wife dearly. She is a great woman and a wonderful mother.
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What does that even mean, "out of place?"

If it is basically a "healthy" marriage, and both of you see marriage as a serious commitment, then it's not something to be thrown away (in divorce) or seriously jeopardized (through a lopsided and secretive "opening") just because he's always felt kinda weird.

Feeling kinda weird about things is, quite honestly, just part of being a human adult in the human world.

Sometimes, when you make a serious commitment - and especially when children are involved - you just have to kinda suck it up, do what needs to be done to uphold the commitment and to be true to the "great" and "wonderful" people to whom you have bound yourself.

And you may tell him I said so.
 
Hi Krissy,
You mentioned prayer as one of the things that happened in between your having been totally against polyamory to now considering it to "make your husband happy." I will be blunt and say that I just hope you haven't bought into the mistaken notion that a good and obedient Christian wife's most important duty is to please her husband and make him happy, even at her own expense. If that idea is part of what convinced you to try poly, then I hope you will consider that that is just patriarchal nonsense promoted by those who would twist the words in the Bible for their own satisfaction.

You don't have to agree or consent to anything you don't want. You shouldn't have to sacrifice your own happiness and peace of mind for your husband to be happy. You can say "No" to opening up your marriage and let your husband pout about it and have a tantrum. Each person's happiness is an inside job, not dependent upon others. Besides, he has a duty to you, as well - as your partner, not your boss.

If there is one tiny sliver of doubt in your mind, or of fear, disgust, disappointment, betrayal, and/or any question of your value and self-worth as you consider polyamory, DON'T DO IT. Instead, seek counseling and get to the root of why now, why your husband has suddenly confronted you with this, and how soon he expects to be able to develop another relationship with someone else. Do not give in to pressure. Take your time, even if it takes five years, before giving your final answer. Consenting will drastically alter your relationship in ways you cannot begin to fathom after only one weekend of talkinking about it. He made a commitment to stand by you as your partner when you got marrried - the very least he can do is be patient and humble while you examine the bomb he dropped in your lap.
 
Thank you for the resources. I will definitely have to read them. Yes I am making it a very big point to proceed with caution. He is aware that it may come to a point (when he either finds or looks for another partner) that I am not as open about it as I thought. I honestly can't say how I would react until the time comes.

I would never actually throat punch my husband (or anyone else for that matter). I felt like it this weekend but I could never actually follow through, I was just extremely emotional. When he told me about his feelings, he expected me to also explore his feelings for myself knowing that I had no need or desire to be with anyone other than him. He had come in with that he wanted to become swingers. After 13 years of being monogamous together and having an "agreement" that there would be nobody else, he came to me wanting to change that "agreement" and for me to be completely open minded to it. I tend to be a VERY stubborn person so as you can imagine this was not the greatest idea on his part. We are taking small steps to see what works for us with as little uneasiness or resentfulness as possible from the other (if that is possible). My expectations for him are mostly to stick to our boundaries and what works for us. To give me the respect I deserve as his wife and the mother to his two daughters in this aspect and to talk and be open with me. I have my strong holds and the things I know I could never compromise on without giving up a part of myself and what makes me who I am. I am right now just trying to understand things and what he is feeling. He is trying to figure things out for himself as well since this is something he has felt for a long time but bottled up for our relationship and my ideals of a marriage. Our marriage will always be first and we have talked a lot about what this means for us. I understand feelings can at times get in the way of boundaries but we will deal with that if the time comes. Being there for him is just (for now) not asking him to ignore his feelings and to try to understand them. Talking to him about it and my feelings. We are still in our marriage for ourselves. We aren't in it for the kids or to save face. I am still very much in love with my husband and he is me. If we weren't I would have left when it got to the point I didn't. He is too much to deal with otherwise. lol

Nycindie, No that is not what I think at all. Just prayer to help figure things out for myself with what was thrown at me without sacrificing who I am and what I need. I typically have a strong opinion on things in my life and am trying to go about this in a different way. I am not a submissive person and it takes a lot for me to delve into something I feel is not for me.
 
I think it's great that you are at least looking at this in a manner that is considerate of your husband's feelings. Too many people don't realize that is what loving couples do. While in the end you may decide against it, at least you are giving it careful consideration.
 
Krissy said:
He had come in with that he wanted to become swingers.
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So, swingers or polyamory?
They have something in common in the work you have to do on a sex-positive attitude and jealousy, but very different in the things that you need to consider. Likely, if you have absolutely no desire in sex with others, swinging is not so much for you. On the other hand, it has much less of an impact on your household and everyday stuff then polyamory...
It's important whether he would be content with casual sexual experimentation in a set time-frame (and group setting perhaps), or if he's indeed after relationships. My experience with set time-frame is - it's something kind of outside the regular. Rather easy not to contact the people out of that space at all. Far easier not to "fall in love" and get carried away, although not guarantied.
 
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Thank you for clarifying more of what's going on. He's asked you to considering Opening the marriage to include swinging, and you are trying to understand where he's coming from.

How can forum people best help you? What outcome do you most hope for?

Galagirl
 
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I just want to say that in situations like this, and like one other I've seen recently here, I feel an echo of something from my marriage. If I amputated the last part where my ex went nuts and things got out of hand...for most of it I was not thrilled in the relationship, although no talk of poly or swinging or anything was going on...I was not happy. So many people (including my ex) would say I should have ended it the minute I realized I wasn't fulfilled, happy, in love, wanting to be with him in a relationship. I do not agree.

I stuck with it for the kids. And if I could have, I would have kept doing that until they were grown. And if he was a more calm and stable, rational person, I would have approached him about opening our marriage so that we could have got the emotional needs and benefits of good loving relationships with others, while meeting our obligations to build a family and home for our children.

Giving our kids the best home, standard of living, two loving and supportive bio parents, if at all humanly possible, even if it meant making personal sacrifices, seemed important to me. I thought it was gut churningly selfish to turn my back on that responsibility to chase sex, love, or personal rainbows. Others said, "if you are miserable, they know. You fight a lot, right?" No. We damn sure did not fight. We had domestic harmony by sheer force of my will, and that was part of the sacrifice.

Now that divorce is happening, because after military service the ex changed and became harmful...he knows more about the reality of my feelings and thoughts. He feels betrayed that the loving wife fairy tale wasn't real. I feel angry that it was more important to him than his children. We are clearly not on the same page with priorities.

But what I would not have given to have had a person who could recognize that precious sparkly feelings or no, we made a good team and were doing a good job with the providing and the kid raising mission, and ought maybe to complete that as partners, roommates, whatever. Friends even, maybe. If I met a couple who managed to pull that off, I would salute them for being mature adults, doing the right thing. But that is my opinion.

So I get when people who might not be totally enthused about poly, if the situation is otherwise not harmful, may try to find a place to deal, negotiate, compromise...rather than a choice between "I love this idea and I'm all in" or "This means divorce because poly ain't for me."

I suggest folks in these situations ask themselves carefully, maybe even write it out (here or elsewhere, on paper, whatever) WHAT ARE MY OPTIONS? What can you do, what can you not do? And then discuss (negotiate) with the other adult until you reach a plan...and be prepared to renegotiate if "can" becomes "can not." Keep always in mind where the tipping point is between doing something for the kids and their environment turning toxic. It's not better to have both parents under the same roof if there is a perpetual undercurrent of negative emotion in the home.
 
Tinwen said:
So, swingers or polyamory?
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He thought he wanted to swing because then I was doing it to and it would make it "okay" because then I was also involved in the action. The more he opens up and thinks about what he has been bottling up he wants another partner to connect with. He knew being swingers was out since I am not even okay with just him having sex with someone else. In fact one rule that I have adamantly made clear to is no sexual contact with the other person. I have my reasons why this isn't an option and have voiced them to him. Also, I don't want to worry about whether he has impregnated another woman because he wasn't careful enough. I don't want to think about him having had sex with someone else when I am trying to get intimate with him. I think ultimately that would be a problem for me.

There is nothing wrong in our marriage. We are happy and our marriage comes first. We have the normal arguments and disagreements that any couple have. After being together for 13 years it is still to be expected. Yes there have been rough patches where it seemed like it was going downhill quickly but we always bounce back. We have been through a lot together. We are still very much in love with each other. This is just one more big event we are trying to work through and to grow from.
 
I'm sorry, but I am having a hard time following the beginning of your post. Let me see if I have it right: Your husband wanted to swing, meaning that the two of you would engage in recreational sex with other people, but while together. Even though you are monogamous and don't want to have sex with anyone else, he thought that was a good idea because if you were fucking someone else, then it would be okay for him to fuck someone else? You wouldn't have gone along with that just to please him, would you? But now he's decided he wants a separate relationship with someone and you're okay with that, as long as he doesn't have sex with her. Do I have that right?

So, essentially he needs to look for an asexual woman to date, since most women wouldn't want to date a guy, and especially a married guy, if they weren't at least getting laid. That will serve to narrow his dating pool down significantly, which is good for you, I suppose, because I don't get the sense that you actually want him involved with anyone else (and that's okay). But, the fact that he had originally wanted to swing tells me he wants a sexual relationship with someone else.

Or are you saying that you have to be present if and when he has sex with someone???

Are you okay with him possibly falling in love with someone other than you?
 
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It sounds like your husband is not sure what Open Model he wants to practice. He's gone from suggesting swinging to now wanting another partner.

Maybe because those are easier to imagine... like "just a play partner for sex to spice things up" or "the same as what I have now... but with 2 partners...."

I think both of you could keep it Closed for now and limit yourselves to reading and talking before you do anything else. Then it is a little bit more Open for him because you are talking about it all and he is no longer bottled up. But still Closed for you so it feels safe enough to both.

On your end, clearly articulate what you are willing and not willing to do. And what your deal breakers are. So far you seem to have these from your previous posts. Could have him repeat them back in his own words so you know you are on the same page. Could ask for his list and do same back.

HE WILL DO
  • stick to our boundaries and what works for us.
  • give me the respect I deserve as his wife and the mother to his two daughters in this aspect
  • talk and be open with me.
  • our marriage comes first

HE WILL NOT DO

  • There will be no sexual contact with other people
  • There will be no fantasizing about sex with other people while you are having sex with me

I WILL DO

  • I will be there for him by asking him to express (rather than bottle up) his feelings and try to understand them.
  • I will talk to him about it and my feelings.
  • I will try to consider what he is saying/suggesting calmly. (I have strong opinions. it takes a lot for me to delve into something I feel is not for me.)

I WILL NOT DO

  • sacrifice who I am and what I need.
  • stay in a loveless marriage

OK THINGS

  • Be friends with other people

Is that where it is currently at?

Galagirl
 
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Krissy,

NYCindie hit on some good points and asked two questions at the end that I believe from what you have posted your answer would be a resounding NO.

She asked if you would be OK with him having sex with someone else if you were there and how you would react if he fell in love with someone else. Maybe I misunderstand but it is hard to imagine you being Ok with either one of these from what you have said.

It seems like your husband is throwing crap against the wall and trying to see if something sticks. He wants other women, and the first offer ( swinging) was to try to entice you into agreeing. And by the way, you agreeing to that would make it infinitely easier for him to have sex with other women because anyone who has ever been to a swingers club knows that us women are the "main event". Then, when you did not bite on that he moved to the poly model and here you are "exploring" that.

Gala Girl outlined it perfectly but the boundaries and deal breakers she mentions mean nothing if you are not prepared to enforce them and follow through.

Like she said, you ought to really slow this thing way down and read all these books and see where your head is at after you do that. Right now, I do not see how anyone reading this can see where you are anywhere near accepting this and that is a recipe for disaster.
 
Greetings Krissy,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

It sounds like your husband is not entirely firm about what model of open relationship he wants or will agree to. Since you are trying to learn and investigate, I suggest the book, "Opening Up: a guide to creating and sustaining open relationships," by Tristan Taormino. It covers a lot of ground and is not a difficult read. Even if you don't use anything in the book, it will give you an idea of how open relationships can work, at least in theory.

You can also of course post any questions you have here; we'll be happy to answer.

Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter"

Notes:

There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!

Please read through the guidelines if you haven't already.

Note: You needn't read every reply to your posts, especially if someone posts in a disagreeable way. Given the size and scope of the site it's hard not to run into the occasional disagreeable person. Please contact the mods if you do (or if you see any spam), and you can block the person if you want.

If you have any questions about the board itself, please private-message a mod and they'll do their best to help.

Welcome aboard!
 
I am not willing to sleep with other people for him. I am not willing to betray my own feelings just to satisfy him or make his confusion okay. I am happy with myself and what I want.

Gala girl that is pretty much where I am at right now. I am pushing him to go slow, not only for me but for himself as well. He is still trying to figure things out for himself as well.
 
Krissy said:
I am not willing to sleep with other people for him. I am not willing to betray my own feelings just to satisfy him or make his confusion okay. I am happy with myself and what I want.

Gala girl that is pretty much where I am at right now. I am pushing him to go slow, not only for me but for himself as well. He is still trying to figure things out for himself as well.
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There are plenty of poly people who have partners who don't have sex with other people.

It is not realistic to expect your husband not to have sex with people he is dating. Basically you are sayong you don't want him to be poly.
 
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