Two sets of poly baggage in a closed relationship. I guess I just want to talk it out

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plip

New member
So my partner and I got together while we were both seeing other people, not so much in a polyamorous way as a "monogamous people who haven't defined the relationship" way.

We both had previous polyamorous (or "polyamorous") relationships about two years back that were really hard on us, and I in particular am... kind of still dealing with it, in ways that are impacting both our relationship and some of my friendships with polyamorous friends?

I guess I want to talk it out somewhere where the fact that the relationships were polyamorous won't be as big a deal as the fact that these were BAD RELATIONSHIPS, because right now even though I get it intellectually I still find myself having these - weird feelings of jealousy and resentment? towards successfully polyamorous friends? that are 100% about this baggage and that's not the person or the friend I want to be. So I guess if anyone has the spare energy to give me some insight or advice, I'd appreciate it.

If this is not an appropriate place for this, mods, please do what you need to, and sorry.

My baggage:

I'm bisexual but was raised in the US South in a very conservative area and mostly dated men for the first decade. (I tried to come out to my family and friends, and they weren't overtly hostile, but they just - didn't believe me at all and just told me they figured I was lying, basically).

So I was very used to telling people I was bisexual and then immediately being presumed to be nonmonogamous? And I think I internalized an idea that that was who I had to be, partially because some straight dude going "hur, hot threesome" felt slightly better than people who just didn't believe me at all?

I was in love with one man for four years in a closed relationship, but after we broke up he landed somewhere between "polyamorous" and "dating around a lot" - he called it "polyamorous" but he also seemed to kind of be exactly as polyamorous as worked for him and never do any relationship work with any of these people? Like as soon as someone wanted to define the relationship he seemed to be like "I'm a free spirit!" and disappear?

I guess I believed him at first that this was something he was genuinely trying, so when we sort of backslid into kind-of-dating and he said he wanted to be polyamorous I went along with it. The problem was that I kept trying to say "I don't think this is working, I'm jealous and unhappy and insecure, if this is what you want that's fine but also we need to not hang out and especially not to kiss anymore" and he would sort of... go after me about how that was disappointing because he thought I was more evolved than that, and he'd thought I could feel compersion, and he really valued our relationship and it seemed silly to end it because I couldn't embrace real freedom, blah blah blah you guys know exactly what this was. Polyamory was not his problem, his problem was that he was a jerk and my problem was that I wasn't owning my needs. Monogamous people use monogamous language to be jerks all the time.

But somehow I stopped dating him - and STARTED DATING ANOTHER GUY WHO DID THE EXACT SAME THING. Where did I find two of them? I went on a couple of dates with this second guy, said "hey, I'm getting the feeling that you're not looking for an exclusive relationship, but I am, so it was nice meeting you and best wishes" - and he pulled "but I thought we REALLY CLICKED and WHY CAN'T YOU BE MORE EVOLVED".

AND I BRIEFLY FELL FOR IT. TWICE. OH MY GOD.

This was interspersed with being hit on a lot by "couples looking for discreet casual third" and I think I sort of kept treating myself like because I was bisexual I wasn't allowed to ask for the relationship style I wanted? If I was really polyamorous, I think I would have had a different struggle, but I think I was secretly monogamous and so I just felt like I was being permanently relegated to "side piece" and wasn't good enough to advocate for my own needs?

(Yes, I am in therapy!)

My partner's baggage

I'm not going to get into it too much because it's less my business to share on the internet, but I feel like I had the classic straight-dating polyamory bad fit and she had the classic gay one - namely, instead of a bad relationship breaking up they added more people?

Unfortunately, her ex was also an actually abusive person, and there was a lot of stuff that was really bad, including the ex reallly pressuring people to do sexual things they didn't really sign up for to "make the relationship work". (Consent, what?). Some people use monogamous expectations to trample their partner's consent, this person used polyamorous language instead, again, the problem is that this person was a jerk, but I kind of feel like I have nowhere to talk about it without either feeling like I'm bashing the relationship style itself or conversely without monogamous friends zeroing in on the fact that the relationship was poly.

My partner is a lot more philosophical about the whole thing than I am - she's still friendly acquaintances with her ex-metamour, and they both view themselves as kind of co-survivors of a bad relationship that they're happy to be out of. (For the record it was the ex that added an extra person - she just kind of notified my partner that this person would be attending their relationship now).

(Yes, my partner is also in therapy!)

The problem

We've agreed to have a monogamous relationship - I think even without my baggage I just don't think that dating or romance are generally fun for me, I just really like my partner in particular and am content to call it quits at that. She also says that she's enthusiastic about monogamy.

But whenever polyamory comes up as a topic I have, like, an angry, jealous reaction. If my partner is involved, I wind up going BUT ARE YOU SURE THAT YOU'RE REALLY FINE WITH THIS??? way more than is necessary. If friends are involved, I try my best to hide that I'm sort of mad and feel guilty and bad and don't really know why. It's just this wave of unprocessed emotion that shows up, and I don't like it.

Plenty of our friends are poly, including a couple who've dealt with a lot of prejudice about the whole thing and are really sensitive about it. And to make it worse, I have bonus jealousy because one of the members of that couple used to date my partner (yeaaaars ago), so whenever the fact that they're poly comes up I suddenly go from "these people are so much fun to be around and I genuinely enjoy the depth of history here" to THREATENED AND MAD AND SURE SOMEONE IS ABOUT TO TELL ME TO BE MORE EVOLVED even though they would never do that because they're not jerks.

I guess my question is: poly people who have dated people who were jerks first and poly second, how did you process and get over it? I guess, like, was it hard because you had access to fewer cultural scripts about how those breakups should go? What were the key steps? Where there were problems that were specifically polyamory-flavored, how did you think through it? I even had trouble with a therapist at the time completely refusing to engage with the idea that there were other problems with my ex-boyfriend BESIDES nonmonogamy, and it made me feel very stymied. (But his problem! was that he was a jerk!)

And as world experts in thinking through and owning your shit - how do I actually close the book on this one? I mean, I guess therapy. But I don't even know how to articulate my goals, besides "feel settled and comfortable that everyone gets to choose the relationship style that works for them and it's not a referendum on anyone else" and "not be mad".
 
I am sorry you are struggling. I hope you feel better for airing out some.

I had a hard time following your post. I am going to repeat back what I understand in my own words to make sure I got it how you mean it. You correct me if I get it wrong, ok? I quote just to visually block it off.

WHAT I WANT FROM PEOPLE READING THIS

My partner and and I are currently in a Closed, monogamous relationship. We first got together when we were both seeing other people. Not like in poly relationships, more like “mono people dating around.”

  • I want to air out and feel heard.
  • I want people to LISTEN to my story – which is about jerk behavior/abuse that happened to me. But listen all the way through without automatically flipping it around to be about their beliefs or their experiences like....
    • Poly person: Well what did you expect in a mono thing? Not evolved enough.
    • Mono Person: well what did you expect in a polyish-not exclusively dating thing? Weirdo stuff when it is not mono-enough.

To me it doesn't matter if the relationships shapes were non-exclusive or mono or whatever. The hurt me and my partner went through is because the people were JERKS and jerks can come in any relationship shape. I've been having trouble sharing my story elsewhere because people keep zeroing in on the polyish bits or the mono bits and then passing a judgement rather than hearing me to the end. I find that frustrating.

WHAT I WANT IN MY CURRENT RELATIONSHIP/SELF

I am really sensitive to that “flipping it around on me" thing. When someone flips it around to be about THEM and how they see things, they are not really listening to ME.

When someone flips it around to be about me, in order to escape being held accountable? They aren't listening to my concerns then either. They make it be about me to escape it being about them that time.... when that time it IS about them and their bad behavior.

  • I would like to get some closure on the past relationships.
  • I would like to feel settled in my current relationship.
  • I would like to feel comfortable with the idea that everyone gets to choose the relationship style that works for them.
  • I would like to think them doing that is not automatically a judgement on my or anyone else's choices.
  • I want to stop defensive listening and be calmer, and remember that these new people in my life are not like the jerks from my past.
  • I'd like to not get triggered and not be mad.

OBSTACLES

Here is what prevents me from meeting those goals right now.

I am bisexual and grew up in the South. My family was not exactly accepting of my being bi. I got a lot of “judgy” stuff from them. When I came out to them, they basically told me they didn't believe me and that I was a liar. So there's 1 example of people telling me that what I think/feel is wrong instead of listening to me.

I dated a guy for 4 years. We broke and got back together and broke up. He used “polyamory” and “free spirit” as an excuse for his poor beahviors. Really he was a jerk. Any time I would bring up concerns in the relationship and call him into account for poor behavior? He would flip it around on me like I was the one who is broken for feeling annoyed or wanting to hold him accountable. How he's a “free spirit” and how "unevolved" I was not to be one too. Example 2 of other people being judgy and telling me what to think/feel. Like I can't know what I want for my relationships myself.

I dated another guy after that who did the same thing. He decided we were not a match after a few dates, which would be ok. But he had to pull the “I thought we clicked. But I want poly and you want mono, why are you not evolved enough?” schtick. Instead of just accepting we were not a match, why did he feel the need to put me and what I want down? Example 3 of someone else putting me down and being judgy about what I want in my relationships.

This was interspersed with being hit on a lot by "couples looking for discreet casual third." At the time I believed because I was bi, I wasn't allowed to ask for the relationship style I wanted. As a monogamous bi person, I just felt like I was being permanently relegated to "side piece” when being approached by unicorn hunters. That did not feel good.

At the time I also was not advocating for my own needs because I was so trampled by things like the above.

My partner was abused by her ex. They did similar to mine – running right over her. Just like my family and dating partners have run right over me.

PROBLEMS

Whenever polyamory comes up as a topic I get an angry, jealous reaction. I envy those who do it well.

If my partner is involved, I feel anxious and need her to reassure me that she's really fine being monogamous with me.

If friends bring it up, I try my best to hide that I feel uncomfortable.

If a certain poly group of friends bring it up, I feel REALLY uncomfortable. I suddenly go from "these people are so much fun to be around and I genuinely enjoy the depth of history here" to THREATENED AND MAD AND SURE SOMEONE IS ABOUT TO TELL ME TO BE MORE EVOLVED even though they would never do that because they're not jerks.

At this time, just hearing about poly is triggering for me. And brings up all the “old voices” telling me I am a liar, not good enough, not evolved enough, etc.

I'm willing to do therapy to help me more fully heal. How else can I help myself?
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Is this the ballpark where this is at?

If so? Go easier on yourself. Be ok being a person who is healing from past stuff. Be ok feeling whatever it is you have to feel to get THROUGH this.

Your current friends are not jerk sounding. But neither are they mind readers. Could tell them you are soon to be going into therapy, and that you wish them well in their relationships, but please don't talk too much about poly stuff around you.

Because while it is no fault of poly, it was one of the ways your "poly" ex used to put you down with -- like you weren't evolved enough to do it when really he was being an asshole to you. Poly or not poly -- he'd STILL be an asshole.

It is ok to talk about poly like ______. But not like _______.

And that you will update them as you progress and hopefully over time it won't be so triggery.

If it were me in those shoes, that's what I would do. Ask for the support I need from friends right now explicitly.

So I encourage you to do that. It helps you learn to advocate more for yourself, it helps you see that not ALL people are jerks like the ones in your past, and it helps you reinforce that yeah. People can pick out to be in relationships however they want, without judging your choices in yours.

All relationship shapes can sometimes have bad people hiding in there -- those wolves in sheep clothing who will be jerks/abuse whoever. It's not like mono is immune, poly is immune, bdsm is immune, gay is immune.... NO relationship type is immune from assholes lurking.

It's ok to have personal boundaries to help keep you safe from them. But they don't have to be 12 ft high brick walls. It can be a waist high picket fence with a gate. Some you don't talk to at all. Some you can talk over the fence like neighbors but not BFFs. And the ones you like best you can invite into your yard to visit and be closer with them.

You sound like you had a lot of UGH happen, and you need time, space, and support to heal from all that. I do encourage you to find a therapist to help you unpack this more fully. It's ok to be a "person in progress." I'm sorry the first therapist was doing like other people in your past. Pushing their slut-shaming thoughts on to you like the therapist can't even see you over their own bias/baggage.

GL!
Galagirl
 
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Thank you so much, Galagirl. You got it exactly right. (Sorry that I was hard to follow). I actually started crying reading this, because I feel like this is the first time that someone's restated it in a way that makes sense and cuts through the tangle. This was very kind of you to make time to respond to me so helpfully and at such length.

[ETA: One thing that I was unclear about: both the first guy and the second guy wanted me to keep dating them. After a few dates, I established that Guy #2 didn't want an exclusive relationship and I did, so I told him that our needs were incompatible and we needed to stop dating. That was the choice that he called "unevolved" (and "immature"). Because I was not in a great place at the time, I somehow believed him and kept dating him for another month and a half. He was not a nice person, I think.]

When you present it as "did people let me tell them what I wanted, and then respect that, or did people tell me what I wanted and then push that on me?" it makes so much structural sense.

I do actually currently have a therapist (not the unhelpful slut-shaming one) and I might actually print this and bring it out. It's been so hard to explain, because at every step it's easy to get bogged down in the specific identity that other people didn't like - but the overall theme is so overarching?
 
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One other question: how did you learn to do this, with the structure and the objectives/obstacles/problems and the validation? Is this something that there are books on? It seems like advanced-level interpersonal effectiveness, and I feel like I could use that in my life
 
Hello plip,

I'm very sorry to hear about the way people treated you in the past. It is no wonder you are getting triggered in the present, it's not like you can just "get over it." It takes a lot of time and painstaking effort to even partially heal. And you might never heal 100%. But hopefully with therapy and the help of this forum, you can heal enough to function and maybe even talk about poly when the subject comes up.

FWIW, I am of the opinion that mono and poly are exactly equally as good as each other. Neither one is "more evolved." Neither one is "healthier/cleaner." Poly is good for some people and bad for others. Mono is good for some people and bad for others. The problem isn't which relationship model people practice, the problem is that some people try to put the other model down, the problem is that some people put other people down in order to prop themselves up. If more people would adopt a live-and-let-live attitude, the world would be a much happier place. Unfortunately, we don't live in such a world. We have to live with the wreckage left behind by those who run through our lives like a tornado.

It sounds like monogamy is the right model for you. Or it's conceivable that sometime far in the future, polyamory will turn out to be okay for you also. But the important thing is that you can own your preferred way of living right here and now, without having to feel like people are judging you, pointing fingers at you, and telling you how you feel instead of letting you tell it. You have the right to be the captain of your own life.

The next time someone starts talking to you about poly, and you feel that threatened, angry feeling rising up inside, close your eyes, take a deep breath, and think/say to yourself, "I am okay just the way I am. I am a good person. I am lovable just the way I am. I deserve to be loved." Tell all the judgmental voices from your past, the voices that are clamoring for your attention, to be quiet. It won't fix everything right away, but it's a start. It's an act of resistance against those voices. It's an affirmation of who you are and how you feel. You are okay, and you will be okay. Have faith in yourself, and don't be too hard on yourself.

Hopefully that helps a little.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Glad I got it mostly right and that it helped you to see it written out that way. It sounds like you clarified your theme for yourself:

"did people let me tell them what I wanted, and then respect that, or did people tell me what I wanted and then push that on me?"
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By all means, feel free to print to show you current therapist. Glad to hear you like your current therapist better than the other one. Now you can ask therapist "So if this happens again... someone trying to push their stuff on me... how can I handle that?"

[ETA: One thing that I was unclear about: both the first guy and the second guy wanted me to keep dating them. After a few dates, I established that Guy #2 didn't want an exclusive relationship and I did, so I told him that our needs were incompatible and we needed to stop dating. That was the choice that he called "unevolved" (and "immature"). Because I was not in a great place at the time, I somehow believed him and kept dating him for another month and a half. He was not a nice person, I think.]
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Thank you for clarifying that part. But yeah. Def not nice sounding people. More like users.

To me that sounds like they wanted to put you down calling you X, so you would keep sticking around to “prove” how not X you are. Result? Continued access to you and the services you provide so they get to keep on using you.

It's not loving behavior. It is user-y behavior. It's ok to be leery of people like that in future – def be on guard! But no SO much on guard you build walls up around yourself and cut yourself off from ALL people. Not everyone is a user.

Develop a personal standard, and learn to trust yourself when assessing the people against that standard. Hang out with the ones that make the cut. Do not hang out with those who do not meet your personal standards. And be ok with them calling you every name in the book – snob, bitch, babyish, immature, unevolved, whatever – if you decide to call them on their poor behavior or you decide to part ways. Remember that is them throwing THEIR tantrum AT you. It is not a judgement ABOUT you.

Ex:

My Dad is a user. He's rampaged all his life like that. I am not impressed. It also helps me spot shenanigans pretty quick in other people. Now he's all Alzheimer weird to boot but he's still an ass sometimes.

Once my mother was agog and she came over to say I had to apologize to my Dad because he called me a bitch. I started to laugh and I said

“1) I am an adult. I don't have to do anything my daddy or mommy say.

2) He was behaving like an ass. I called him into account for poor behavior and he doesn't like it. He may not cuss at me. I told him he had a choice. He could apologize and we could move on. Or else I go home. He did not apologize. I came home. If he wants me back? HE still need to apologize to ME. I don't put up with bratty. He's all huffy because I'm the kid and he's the dad and I don't get to talk to him like that. When actually, I do. I do not have to accept people cussing at me.

3) Do you SERIOUSLY think my daddy is the first man to call me a bitch as a means to bully me into doing what they want? Like I'm so scared of being called “bitch” that I will run right over to appease the Volcano God? If being a “bitch” gets me a few days off from his crazy, I'm happy to be called a bitch and stay home. I don't have to be over there doing FREE eldercare putting up with poor behavior. Ever notice he doesn't behave like that on the street? Just at home? That means he CAN choose to control his tongue. His Alzheimer isn't so far gone he cannot. And I already KNOW I am not a bitch. I have nothing to prove. He can call me cheese. I know I am not cheese. I don't have to argue with him about it.

4) He did poor behavior and now he's being a bully because he doesn't want to apologize. That's how he plays YOU. He tantrums, and you give him his way and let him off the hook like a spoiled brat because you hate “having a scene." Where I don't care if he has a cow. Have all the cows he wants. He still has to apologize to me or else I'm not helping over there. Tough! Y'all can HIRE caregivers. It doesn't have to be me.

5) Why are you signing up to be his loudspeaker? He's using you. If you come over? He doesn't have to come over here to apologize and own his shit. If I get mad again, he escapes having to hear it from me AND he can blame you that you gave his message wrong. If I don't come over to apologize to him like he wants, he can blame me that I'm still a bitch or you that you didn't give the message right. You get slimed in all directions because you are SO easy to play. Why sign up to do all that? Is it fun?"

It opened her eyes and she went back the other way to tell him to stop making her be his flying monkey and if he had a problem to sort it out directly with the daughter (me) himself and not involve her. She was putting her foot down on that. And that Galagirl was right, he WAS behaving like an ass to his people. :rolleyes:

If people have been walking over you? Do the work in therapy to learn to advocate more for yourself and become more assertive. You don't have to go out to aggressive like Flutteryshy did. (I have kids) But assertive. Do not put up with shenanigans.

Maybe those are things to talk about with the therapist -- how to develop a personal standard for who you will and will not hang out with, what you will and will not put up with, and how to become more assertive?

Galagirl
 
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One other question: how did you learn to do this, with the structure and the objectives/obstacles/problems and the validation? Is this something that there are books on? It seems like advanced-level interpersonal effectiveness, and I feel like I could use that in my life
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Hrm... probably not from one single thing but an amalgamation of things.

I prefer to write so things have an order. Either chronological or the classic

  • who
  • what
  • when
  • where
  • how
  • why

or a graphic organizer or similar.

It's ok to write however it comes out when venting or emotional. I do that sometimes too.

But later I want to group like things together and organize the writing better so I can try to help myself see a way out.

You sounded like you were at the venting place and just needing to air out and just list all the things first. Which is totally fine.

And like maybe you needed help with the "sorting the list out" part. So I took a stab at organizing it in case it helped you some.

It was also a blend of




because I thought that might help the organizing best. You didn't list any strengths I could spot in the original post, but I could see the obstacles/weak spots with the other people dumping their crap on you and you partially internalizing their hurtful words.

UN-learning that stuff, and getting their slime OFF you, so the YOU you can finally shine through might take some time and work in therapy. But you are further than I thought -- you have ALREADY changed therapists and fired that yucky first one! Good for you! Looking out for your well-being! :)

Again... be ok being a work in progress. We all are to one degree or another. Celebrate small steps along the way, and keep moving it forward. I have faith you will get there eventually and heal from all this if you keep working at it.

GL!
Galagirl
 
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plip said:
how did you learn to do this? Is this something that there are books on?
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There are (of course) plenty of books.

But the FACT is that this all HAS to be learned from experience.

Woody Allen said, "Being bisexual doubles your chances of having a date for Saturday night." :D

But being poly also doubles (or trebles, or quintuples) your chances of NOT having a date. :(

There's PLENTY of ass-hats who will pull "but I'm poly!" as an excuse for being neglectful/manipulative/abusive jerkoffs.

Let's go back & ask whether YOU are a person who WANTS to be open to having more than one intimate partner FOR YOURSELF.
 
I won't try to claim I understand exactly what you're going through, or flip anything around on you, plip - but what I will say is that, for decades, the idea of polyamory (and non-monogamy in general) left a bad taste in my mouth... if you'll pardon the pun.

This was mostly due to the jerk factor, as you say... only I confused the fallout from bad experiences I'd had with unscrupulous, cheating liars (or just plain emotionally careless "grown children") with the lifestyle itself and anything associated with it, such as communal living (kitchen table poly), don't ask/don't tell agreements and/or group sex.

In short, my first serious live-in relationship ended when I was talked into having a threesome with my then-fiancé and my female best friend/housemate. After trying to call a halt to proceedings, those two went ahead anyway and continued the relationship despite my never having agreed to such a situation. (We were all already living together.)

Years later, after a long-term marriage to someone else ended, I found my current partner Jester online - and despite not-so-subtle inquiries, he still failed to tell me he was already involved in a FWB thing with a mutual female friend. This woman - who ironically is now my other partner - felt somewhat threatened by me, and in an effort not to lose Jester completely, hinted around at "sharing" him, DADT style... and later brought up poly as potentially being the answer to her prayers.

At the time, I was strictly mono and the LAST thing I wanted was to be involved with someone who had another partner! I resented feeling pressured to cave in, lest I come off as the "bad guy" (or girl, rather) and too "unevolved" to drop the notions of a monogamous "One True Love" society had instilled into me.

While I eventually DID do just that, and now have two co-primary partners who feel very little jealousy toward each other, I myself am still not all the way "evolved" to that point... though I concede it has been a process (for me) and is NOT for everybody.

I tell you all this, plip, just so you know you and your partner are not alone in feeling some angst and trepidation at the mention of polyamory after having experienced some negative events in its name.

Much like someone who may have grown up in an ultra-conservative religious environment and been made to feel guilty and "unworthy" if they didn't automatically Believe and tailor their behaviour to meet community expectations... both "poly militants" AND those claiming to be poly as a way to have guilt-free sex with whoever they choose CAN make those who have qualms feel badly about themselves, as though by choosing monogamy they're being selfish, immature and close-minded.

Nobody should be goaded or bullied into non-monogamy if that's not what they WANT to be... or a state they want to learn to get to. (i.e. Not everyone is instinctively polyamorous. Even if we happen to fall in love with more than one person, some of us still have to do the work to be okay with all that goes along with this lifestyle - though I dislike that word.)
 
I'm in a longterm poly relationship with my female partner, I am female too. But the last time a bf I was with for 2 1/2 years went bad (he was an abusive narcissist who was very good at pretending to be normal and caring, until he wasn't...) I took 6 months off from dating anyone. He'd thrown me for such a loop. I needed time off to collect myself and just rest and heal. I had my gf to help me heal, and caring friends (queer, poly), some here, some irl, plus my sister who is straight and mono but very supportive, a great listener, nurturing. I relied on them, and reflection, and blogging here. Writing out all my pain really helped.
 
https://psiloveyou.xyz/confronting-abuse-in-polyamorous-relationships-f9e35eea4546

I wonder if this might be helpful to you innsorting things out?

It was a great resource for me in deciphering what went wrong.

And I totally get a LOT of your feelings. I ended up poly right out of a really bad marriage, because those those were people I clicked with— and my therapist was assuming I was poly because I was bi pushed me that direction a bit.

I’m solo now, and thinking I’m defaulting to solo monogamy. If a really healthy system comes along to change me— great— but I think I want to build something from scratch this time round. My dynamics are comes enough without adding group dynamics right now!

I think envying a working poly relationship means wanting something you see as ideal there- me a mixture of autonomy and closeness, and the ability to be even-keeled about potentially wobbly-making needs of your partner. Perhaps figuring out what an ideal poly relationship stands for for you would help you achieve it in your current one?

FWIW, I very much got your situation. I think it was complex- but not unclear.
 
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