Unbinding the briars of my joys & desires


Thanks all for your kind words and attention.

So, last night I met Bluebird at her local Panera bread and we talked.

I brought a pencil and notebook, and we sat and addressed our concerns one at a time. I wrote down two columns, one said "Warman's issues" and the other said "Bluebird's issues". One by one I listed the various things that each of us felt this recent argument was about, then we addressed them one at a time.

I don't feel like listing them all here, especially since some of them concern issues with people who might read these. I'm going to send my copy to Bluebird, she may decide to do so, I'm fine with that.

Long story short, we worked them out. Bluebird seemed relieved that I was "less cold" this time around. I told her that was because this time around I had had the time I needed to calm down and not be mad, and that my being "cold" was way better than my "hot", not to be all Bruce Banner, but it’s sadly true. Anyway, it wasn't easy, but we worked through them all. At the end we both decided that we could live with the compromises, and that we wanted to continue seeing each other. Which isn't to say that we were both thrilled with the compromises, but we can live with them. All in all, we were there about 3 hours talking. We left when Panera told us to get out because they were closing.

I was surprised when Bluebird asked if it would be OK if she came over. I had thought that due to her teaching the next day she had decided against it. I was of course glad to have her.


newtoday said:
The statistics were not in my favor. This wasn't their first trip down this road, he'd loved another before me, as did his partner. They were experienced. I was a novice, an apprentice.

That’s a pretty succinct summary of my situation. I don’t know if the statistics are in anyone’s favor. Relationships tend to fail more often than they succeed I think. I think everyone has to eventually accept that and come to terms with it and decide whether they want to keep trying or not.

newtoday said:
One day I would wake up and realize what a shitty deal I had , [...] I would want someone of my own, someone who could be there for me full time , to have a "normal" relationship with.

Bluebird worries about this all the time. Not just about me, but with PRA, and DK. I’ve given up trying to reassure her that like you, I have reasons why I want a poly relationship, and how I don’t think I can really even do a full time relationship anymore, but I have decided that I’ll just have to deal with her doubt and bide my time.

newtoday said:
“I wish I'd accepted that I had no control over the outcome”

It’s funny. During our argument yesterday, I had told Bluebird that I felt she was out of control. I meant of her own emotions, but she thought I meant over the relationship. I told her what I really meant, but then reminded her that in ANY relationship, none of us are in control! We’re all in control of exactly half of every relationship we have, and at any time the other person can choose to completely ruin or end it. Some amount of surrender of control is required, or we’ll never be able to relax in our relationships. It reminded me of something I read on the “more than two” website.

The fear of being alone is arguably one of the most difficult things to deal with in a relationship. Often, it comes from an idea that the partner you have now is someone you must be with; if you lose this relationship, for whatever reason, you can never find another again. This fear can make it very difficult for you to ask for what you need in a relationship (for fear that your partner will leave if you ask for too much), and can add an edge of desperation to any other fear or insecurity you may feel (because if you fail to make this relationship work, you’ll never have another opportunity for happiness) conquering a fear of being alone is a necessary step in the quest for security; if you cannot feel confident in your ability to be happy without your current relationship, it becomes much more difficult to be secure in your current relationship.​


We don’t have any control. Clinging to the concept itself makes us unhappy I think. This bothers Bluebird, because she thinks that I don’t care about the idea of us breaking up. She thinks that I’m not bothered by the idea because I can discuss the possible failure of the relationship objectively. I AM bothered by the idea, it would make me very sad, but I’m trying very hard to stick to the above paragraph. It’s true of poly and non-poly relationships. Accepting that this relationship might not work, makes me secure enough to hopefully make it work. It sounds strange, but I think it’s true.

newtoday said:
stillness of heart.

That’s a beautiful way to phrase the concept.

tenK said:
… I too tend to react the way you do when I get into an emotional argument. I tend to shut down, withdraw, feel very uncomfortable with physical contact, and retreat into rational mode. […] To deny me that space just prolongs the situation.

You’ve pegged my reactions and feelings exactly. We are figuring it out, and I think we both understand a little better what the other person is experiencing.

WhatToDo said:
… I'm one that tends to turn off their emotions during an argument. It may not be the healthiest thing but it allows me not to blow my top in the midst of the argument. It can come off as cold or detached but it's what I need to do to keep things from escalating.

Exactly so. Denial of escalation is the name of the game for me. It’s all my fault, I’m the one with the temper issues, this is the way I cope, while I try to fix my temper issues. I hope that it doesn’t have to be this way forever, but in the meantime, I’d like to have successful relationships.

RainyGrlJenny said:
… I'm very similar [...] I just can't deal with that kind of interaction during the moment. We've almost broken up over it, and we still don't have a good way to deal with the mismatch of needs.

I’m sorry to hear about the stress in your own relationship. Bluebird and I are facing the same issue. We have diametrically opposed needs during an emotional confrontation. She needs actual physical touch, and I need physical space. The compromise we came up with last night was that the minimum space that I will accept to be alone is 1 hour. After that, I will let her pick the time we get back together to talk. She also requested that when we DO meet, that we do so in person. I agreed to both of those. This way I get SOME space, if not all I need, and she will get the physical nearness she needs, if not as soon as she’d like it. Neither of us is entirely happy with this, but I think it’s a good compromise.

nycindie said:

I appreciate your perspective on handling a new relationship in a poly arrangement. It isn't easy, I'm sure.

Sometimes I feel like a duck, attending his very first calculus class. If nothing else it seems like it should be interesting for others to watch. ;)

I read Bluebird's account of the latest big fight you had, [...] it amazes me how differently you two see things. It is night and day. I wrote in BB's blog that it's like you were interacting in alternate universes. [/QUOTE]

It’s definitely…disconcerting. To continue my bird theme…It’s like we’re both experiencing the sea, but she’s a bird, and I’m a fish. Even understanding the other person’s experience of the situation is challenging, and requires exploring ideas and concepts that are simply alien to each of us. The good news is that we both WANT to understand, and hopefully that will be enough.

kdt26417 said:
I suggest working with a counselor?

In the future I think this might be a good idea. If our current plan doesn’t work for us this would be the next step I think.

InfinitePossibility said:
It's tricky I think to deal with disagreements in a new relationship. It is clear from Bluebird's blog that she is incredibly caring and loving.

Yes she is.

InfinitePossibility said:
It is also clear that Bluebird is needy and lacks confidence that she is worthy of love. I suspect that it is hard for her to share time with others and I suspect that your relationship with Monkey is an ongoing source of stress for her.

I can see how it might seem that way, but Bluebird is actually very rarely weird about me spending time with Monkey. The only exception is when she’s feeling neglected and I’m on my way to Monkey’s house. Like if we didn’t have time to connect romantically on our last visit. She never says it, but sometimes I get the feeling she’s hoping I’ll cancel my plans with monkey. That being said, she has never asked me to, nor has she ever made me feel guilty for spending time with Monkey.

InfinitePossibility said:
I guess the danger for you is that sometimes loving people who are very needy and lacking in confidence can leave people isolated. [...] No one person is enough for anybody and being isolated for the sake of love is lonely.

I have definitely been aware of this. But I’ve never felt the need to apologize for time spent with anyone else. I simply told her that I was going to be going to coffee with this friend, I didn’t ask, and she was totally cool with it. She needs attention, and frequently, but she’s really good at controlling any signs of jealousy. At least the external expression thereof.

Bluebird really doesn’t mind me going to spend time with other people. I think the only real problem she’s currently having is that while I share her family life, and am integrated, she’s kind of kept separate from my “family”. I deliberately keep her and Monkey separate to a degree because I really don’t want any conflict. I think she feels kinda like the girlfriend who’s boyfriend won’t ever introduce her to his family. There’s an undercurrent of wondering whether you’re really accepted, or whether your SO is secretly ashamed of you in some way. None of this is true, I’m just trying to keep my life low-stress, but I think that’s what you’re sensing.


Any time I’m going back in time this far, I may have dates wrong, so If you know me, and I’ve inadvertently gotten a day or time wrong, please just assume that I’m a man-child who can’t track time.

So much has happened since my last update. I’ve been so tired, both physically and emotionally, that I haven’t wanted to do anything, haven’t wanted to open my mouth until I was calm, until I found my Zen.

Where to start…Thanksgiving?
So, Thanksgiving morning was quiet, it was a beautiful day here, if a bit chilly. I got up fairly early and went to a town between us to have coffee with BreatheMusic. I’m not really a very friendly person. Social situations where I’m meeting new people always give me some level of anxiety. This is odd, when you consider that I’m also fine presenting in front of large groups of people, and used to preach to large congregations pretty regularly, with little to no anxiety. When it’s a one on one situation, where I can’t rely on other people to talk and represent the group, that’s when I start to feel nervous. All that having been said, within 2 or 3 minutes of having said “hello” I felt completely comfortable with BreatheMusic. She was kind, interesting, engaging, funny, and friendly. I had a great time talking to her, and the time was up way before I was ready to stop. It was nice to talk to someone who understands where I’m coming from.

After coffee, I went over to Bluebird’s house. I played Zombiecide with her and her boys, and it was an enjoyable time. Unfortunately, there was some fallout. See, I had been invited to some friend’s house for Thanksgiving dinner. In the years past, I had attended. This was less a matter of them wanting me there I think, but more an invitation of pity, they didn’t want me to spend it alone. This Thanksgiving, there were going to be many people there who I didn’t know, and I was so socially wrung-out, I just didn’t want to do it. On top of that, I wasn’t sure if Bluebird was invited or not. Frankly, I wasn’t sure why she would want to come, but if I knew that if I went without her it would hurt her feelings. So I canceled with them, thanking them for inviting me, not just this year, but in years past. I did not say what I would be doing instead. I think they assumed that I was going to be having Thanksgiving dinner with Bluebird. So, midway through the game, PunkRock took a picture of the game, posted it to Facebook with a caption of something like “Chinese food and Zombiecide”. (Aside: I REALLY hate Facebook. I only have a bogus account, but there are a few people who know who I am there.) Well, only minutes after it was posted I got a message from Monkey saying that people there were offended because I skipped dinner with them to play games and eat Chinese. I suddenly felt guilty. All these years they made room for me at their table, and now that I had something more fun to do, I was skipping it. Of course, this isn’t what was really happening, but I could see how they might feel that way. Bluebird told me I didn’t need to feel that way, and I’m sure that she’s technically right, but I still felt a little unfaithful. I was told after the fact that of course she was invited, but it was never clear, and I didn’t feel like I could invite her myself. This minor piece of drama aside, Thanksgiving day was pretty nice.

On Saturday we had Thanksgiving dinner at Bluebird's house. When I arrived I met Bluebird’s oldest daughter. Her daughter was really charming and pretty, everything you’d want your daughter to be. She and I actually went out and bought some booze and had great conversation while we were out. When we got back, DarkKnight’s parents were there along with his sister. I heard Darkknight’s mom ask “who is that?” from the other room and Bluebird reply “That’s Warman, the guy I’ve been seeing.” This was immediately followed by silence. It was then that I discovered that DarkKnight’s parents hadn’t been aware that I would be there. I got why they might not warn them ahead of time if they wanted them to be there (although, if they were MY parents, I would have told them and hoped that they would choose not to come, my tolerance of the intolerant is in short supply), but I wished that I had known. It was more than a little uncomfortable, but dinner didn’t last that long, and they left shortly afterwards. After that we hung out for a while, and then I went home.

On Sunday I started to feel really sick. I went however to have pictures taken with the family. It was fun and everyone (else) looked great. Of course, this was later ruined by the complete loss of the files. It was lame and I feel bad. On one hand, I’ve got a friend who made a real mistake and lost someone’s irreplaceable pictures and feels like shit about it. On the other, I’ve got an unhappy girlfriend who spend money on outfits and was excited about pictures and is now let down. I feel somewhat caught in the middle, and feeling bad for both parties. This was supposed to be part of my x-mas gift to Bluebird, so I feel bad about that too. I’ve offered what solutions I can, but it seems nothing will work. I wasn’t really pleased with the way I look, and reading her comments and the comments of others on her journal was a little unhappy-making. I know what I am. I know I’m a fat guy. Despite that, I don’t really like to think of myself as Bluebird’s “biggest” guy. This was followed up with a conversation she and I had during the week later. It left me feeling a little hurt, although I know nobody meant to do so. Just something I’m still dealing with, after all of these years. Obviously, I know Bluebird is sexually attracted to me. That’s not the issue. I just don’t like to think of myself in those terms, even though I know it’s what most people see first when they look at me.


By Monday I felt really crummy. It was bad enough that I called in sick to work. Just a terrible cold, body aches etc. I contacted Bluebird and told her I was going to cancel our date night because I just didn’t feel well enough. I was more than a little dismayed when she complained to me that I was canceling again. I had to think back before I knew what she was talking about. She was referring to our big fight last week. I told her that I was sorry that she felt neglected, but that I was really too sick. On Tuesday I felt bad again, and again called in sick to sleep most of the day and went to bed early. On Wed I returned to work, but was buried under a huge workload. Bluebird came over that night, and we had a pleasant evening. She stayed with me all through Thursday until we went and played Zombiecide at her house with her boys.

On Thursday (I think) my boss called me and told me that he needed me to go to New Orleans Sunday night and stay there until the coming Thursday. Bluebird immediately started to be unhappy about this. We talked about how I would see her Saturday, and said that I would come by on Sunday “for a while”.

I hung out with Monkey Friday night. It was just the two of us, and was nice. She was getting ready for her craft show today, so I just sat there and talked to her while I colored in my coloring book (yeah, I got one, it’s very relaxing). I knew ahead of time that was what I’d be doing, and conversation didn’t distract her. She’s still terribly depressed. I’m still worried about her. Etc.

Today, Saturday was PunkRock’s birthday. Although Bluebird and I are usually together the majority of the day on Saturday, including my date and sleepover night, today I was not on the schedule. Thursday night, Bluebird had asked me when we would see each other, and I said that I would see her Saturday at 4:30. She agreed to this. So, this morning I woke up to a text message from her saying that she was unhappy that she wasn’t going to see me all day today, and why wasn’t I coming over? I responded that I wasn’t on the calendar, and that we’d talked about it, and agreed that I wasn’t going to be there until 4:30, so… that was the plan, and I had other things planned for that morning. She was unhappy about this. I told her that if she had a need, she needed to express it clearly to me, if she wanted to see me before the 4:30 time, she just needed to ask and not be passive aggressive about it. She said that yes, she did. I told her that I had things to do, but would come over when I was done. This I did, arriving around 2. When I got there I was somewhat dismayed, because I was there, but Bluebird just worked on her Genealogy until time for dinner. (I had left my projects at home, believing that she wanted to interact with me). I didn’t have much to do, so I sat next to her on the couch, and eventually dozed a bit. I was a little dismayed that this was all she wanted me for. I’m all for just sitting quietly next to someone, and I know that’s part of the whole “comfortable together” thing. I would have been OK with that, had I known that was the plan, I would have brought my own stuff to work on, but my projects were at home. It wasn’t a big deal, I was just briefly, mildly annoyed. Dozing with my arm around her was nice however, so it didn’t last.

We gave gifts to PunkRock, and ate some cake. He seemed happy. After that, it was time for me to head out, but Bluebird and I sat on the couch for a couple of minutes to say goodbye. At this time she asked me about tomorrow. I told her that I had to leave at 5. She had some stuff going on in the early afternoon, and would not be available in the morning. I told her I was already committed to visit with Monkey tomorrow (as it’s her day usually) but that I would gladly come by in the late afternoon before I left to spend some time with her and say goodbye. As we talked she grew more and more unhappy. I told her that she needed to be clear on what her needs were. She couldn’t say what she wanted, and in fact, said that no matter what I did, it wouldn’t really help. When I questioned her on this, she said that well, it would help her to know that I “cared about her even a little”, which made me frown. She kept saying that she should be my priority because A) she was my girlfriend and B) she needed it more than Monkey did. I told her that she WAS a priority in my life. I had abandoned some of my chores for the day to come over, and I had decided NOT to go visit Monkey at her show to be there with her as long as I could be. I asked her to please tell me exactly what she needed from me. But she was unable to do so. She kept repeating that I should know what she needed, that her separation anxiety was a “serious crisis”. I told her that I felt bad about being unreliable with Monkey. That I didn’t like breaking my word, and that I felt I had done it way too often lately and was starting to feel bad about myself. Keeping my promises is incredibly important to me. I try to never make a promise that I can’t keep. I carefully avoid saying or doing things that feel like promises, unless I’m willing to keep them. I asked her if I could come over in the morning. She said no, she’d be asleep up until it was time for her to go take care of stuff for the foster kittens. I told her I felt like I was in a difficult place. I asked her what she would do if both of her boys needed her at the same time, and she couldn’t be there for both of them. She refused to answer the question, dissembling and saying it had never happened. In the end I told her that I could promise her that I would be over at 3PM, which would give us about an hour and a half, to two hours before I would have to leave, and she would have to get ready to go to PunkRock’s Christmas party. She said that she felt that this wasn’t very much time. I told her that that was the minimum I could promise her, but since she could not commit to when she’d be back home from her chores, I would wait for her to tell me she was on her way back home, and then I’d see what I could do. She still wasn’t happy with this. We talked a bit about her separation anxiety. She basically said that she felt there wasn’t much that she could do about it, and that she felt like if I loved her I’d help her deal with it, despite saying that there really wasn’t much I could do that would help. I honestly don’t know how to feel about that, I’m still processing it. So we agreed that I'd see her at 3 at the latest, we kissed and left it in a pretty decent place.

When I initially told her I’d see her at 3 she said somewhat surprised “You’re not breaking up with me?” I said “No! Of course not. I’m a little frustrated right now, but I’m not thinking about breaking up with you.” That thing keeps coming up.

So, that’s where we’re at. Bluebird appears to not be too happy with me, and I’m a little put out that she’s not asking directly for what she needs, and instead expects me to “know”. Maybe she feels like her needs should be clear or that she’s expressed them clearly. I get the impression that she almost feels I'm being deliberately obtuse, or else am just emotionally incompetent for not knowing based on what we've talked about already. Telling me that you have a big problem isn’t the same as me understanding exactly what you need. Maybe I really am thick. It’s not for lack of caring, but I refuse to be trapped into that “You should know what you did” thing. I think I’m going to stick hard to my rule that if you don’t explicitly state what you need from me, I can’t be responsible if you don’t get it. This doesn’t mean that I’ll never try to anticipate what she needs, just that if for whatever reason I’m not offering it, she needs to explicitly ask before getting upset. Especially since I have more than just her to think about. I may not always be able to give what she needs/wants, but I WILL try. It may not be the ideal, but I feel like it’s fair.

It worries me a lot. Bluebird often expresses that I’m not doing things the way I should be. I feel like she wants me to be more like her boys in a lot of ways, and I’m just not. (The phrase "both my boys know this" came up today). I worry that I’m NOT ideal for her, and that she might indeed be happier with someone else. Sometimes I think that maybe for her to have a primary it might be better if they were completely mono. I haven’t been unhappy with Bluebird, except for moments like this, when she wants me to act differently. I feel like she loves me, but I’m worried that eventually her frustration with me not being what she needs will be too much, and I will eventually begin to be more of a burden than a comfort.

Unfortunately, I’m about to leave for 4 days, and then a mere week after that, Bluebird will be gone for 4 days also, and my period tracker says that the week between our trips, the week we have together, is PMS week. I’m worried, but hopeful that I’ll find a way to show her that I love her, even at a distance. Suggestions?

Love you Bluebird, even when we’re discussing difficult stuff, or going through a rough patch. <3


New member
I'm sorry WarMan but this all sounds so completely exhausting that I don't know how you do it. I would just have trouble being someone's whole support system. Especially when that person has multiple other support systems.

It should be okay for you to have friends/time to yourself. It's not a competition, or at least it shouldn't be. It's bad enough that you have to schedule your friend visits, however that is what you choose to do, but you shouldn't be made to feel bad seemingly every week when your partner is having some sort of meltdown about needing affection.


Well-known member
After reading your post last night and Bluebirds today I do not know how you are still in this relationship.

Bluebird is far to needy for me. I am far too much of an independent person to deal with someone who wants to control every aspect of a relationship. I am also too much of an introvert to deal with being someones cheerleader and mental health professional.

Her throwing a fit because you have to go out of town to work. WTH... She isn't paying your bills. You have to work. I just didn't see Murf for close to two weeks for any one on one quality time. Yes I saw him on Thanksgiving but we spent that day with his family. I didn't get to sleep with him that night and the day was focused on extended family. After that both his and my work schedule got in the way. Yes I was missing him dearly but we have bills we have to pay. I didn't punish him for doing the right thing.

I am come to realize that she wants things her way. If something deviates from what she wants she melts down. She is being very selfish throwing a fit that you spent time with Monkey yet expects you to spend time with Punkrock on his birthday which fell on your day. You were gracious and were willing to make other plans. Yet you are made out to be the bad guy.

Then her post today about her trip to NY and how if she had her way she would want a fwb to fill the void because she will be alone! WTF how many men does she need to collect to fill the swiss cheese holes in her self esteem.

You are a better man than I would be. I would cut and run screaming from her to be honest. I can not deal with controlling melodramatic people.
Last edited:


Active member
WarMan, the reality is that Bluebird wants what she wants and has a certain set of criteria that she believes she needs in a primary relationship in order to be happy. She expects to see you a certain amount of time each week and becomes upset when the unexpected happens and she can't see you as often as she would prefer. She wants to know that you are willing to go the distance to be in this relationship with her, but she falls prey to comparing how you conduct yourself in this relationship with how PR and DK relate to her. Comparing you to them and expecting you to fit right in is decidely unfair because they've both known her way longer than you do. You're still finding where and how you fit in, and you two are still learning about each other.

But what are your criteria for a primary relationship? For a while, you were comparing the time you can spend with her to the time she gets with PR and DK, and complaining that you didn't think you could develop a serious a relationship with her as quickly or as deeply if you always have less time than they do. I suppose it is hard to avoid comparison when you enter into a relationship with someone who already has two other partners, but it doesn't serve either of you to keep comparing you and your experience to what she has with the other guys. So I am glad that it seems you've moved beyond doing that a bit.

Besides all that, you also feel the need to give time to Monkey, which is fine, but I do I believe your feelings of obligation to Monkey cloud your judgment sometimes and get in the way of seeing how manipulative and passive-aggressive Monkey is. For example, why did Monkey text you about her friends being disappointed about where you spent Thanksgiving? While you were with Bluebird? Doing so at that time was completely inappropriate and clearly meant to sabotage your time with Bluebird. At some point you will no longer owe Monkey for saving your life, and should consider the debt paid, which means you don't have to out up with that kind of bullshit. Maybe you need to disengage sooner than you think.

But I digress. Back to Bluebird.

When I read your posts about your interactions, I sense your frustration. There are always so many misunderstandings and so many times you feel you've made huge irreparable mistakes. She expects certain things and feels slighted when you don't know what it is she needs or have different ideas about how to meet her needs. I think you two are trying to be partners, in the sense of being totally entangled, too soon. You haven't been seeing each other all that long and it is already stressful to you both. If I were going through all these deep talks, tirades, and seeing a partner meltdown as often as you and she have at this stage of the game, I would walk away because there would seem to be something off-kilter to me. But my take on relationships is that when the pendulum keeps swinging more in the direction of angst and hard work rather than satisfaction and joy, it's time to get out.

I think you need to figure out what YOU want from a primary relationship and what you are willing to give in a primary relationship and be clear in expressing that to Bluebird. It seems you need her to be more flexible about scheduling, and more clear about what she expects, and you need her to be more receptive and less angsty about when your needs don't match up with hers. She would do well if she stopped thinking that every time you have a different view of things you want to break up with her.

I don't know what else to tell you except I really don't think you've done anything wrong here. We who have gotten to know Bluebird here all know she can make it through this difficult, stressful time right now; she just needs a little more faith in herself. I also think that the two of you are a little bit on different wavelengths because you both have shit to deal with, but that's life. I sincerely hope it works out well for everyone.
Last edited:


New member
I just wanted to extend a sincere thank you to you, WarMan, for posting the email you sent to your family coming out. I recently took that email and modified it to come out to my family as well. Given their less-than-thrilled (though arguably better than it may have been in person or over the phone) reactions, this was absolutely the right way to do it. Despite their responses, I've at least opened the door to a more genuine relationship with them.

So thank you for posting that. :) I hope you are doing well!


Rumors of my demise were mostly right. But mostly dead, is still partially alive. So, I’ve got that going for me.

Man, it’s been an INSANE few weeks. I’ve wanted to come back here and update so many times, but I’ve been so tired and so short of time that I haven’t.

In fact, so much has happened, that I don’t think I can cover it all, so I’ll just try to sum up quickly, and then try to keep up.

I’ve been traveling the last 3 weeks for work. Down in New Orleans, getting a new acquisition converted over to our systems. 16+ hour days, plus long hours in cars and on planes and sleeping (or rather not sleeping due to my bad back) in hotel rooms for short hours, skipping meals, working hard. Add to that that I’ve barely seen Bluebird and Monkey and it all adds up to a rough few weeks.

Monkey. I’ve barely seen her. She finally had to accept the harsh realities of the situation her family and take a low paying job where she does physical labor all night long. She starts work at 10 PM and works all night, then sleeps most of the day. Not only have I not seen her, I’ve barely talked to her. The only time I’ve spent with her in the last 3 weeks was a couple of nights where she fell asleep with her head on my lap while we watched some TV. My heart literally aches from missing her. I know some people might find this pathetic, but for the past decade + she’s been a daily part of my life. We both would say hi when we woke, then talk throughout the day, and then said goodnight at bedtime. Every day for 10 years…heck, probably closer to 13 now. To suddenly lose her in such a dramatic way hurts. It feels like my best friend died almost. I miss her, I feel like part of my life has just suddenly gone missing.

Bluebird. Things have been good! In a way the travel has been good for us as a couple, although it’s been trying for both of us in different ways. It was hard on me traveling back and forth to and from New Orleans, when I could have stayed there much more simply. It was worth it to come back to her though. It was good for me also to have time to reflect how much I missed Bluebird when she wasn’t around. These last two weekends, when we came back together were really great and both reminded me how much I love Bluebird, and how much fun we have when we’re together. It also highlighted how sexually compatible we are, which was pretty awesome.
There are lots of challenges coming up, lots of narrow passes that will require careful navigation, but I think things will work out. Trips to see my kids, future travel for work, cohabitation questions, the future location of Bluebird’s household, etc.

It’s late. I want to say more, but tomorrow is going to be so hectic that I don’t dare. I’ll try harder to keep up. Still lots to talk about, including, why I’m no longer reading Bluebird’s journal. I’ll try to make it back here soon.

Take care.


Take good care of yourself WarMan. The not sleeping due to your back is a hazardous thing all around. Is there any way you can arrange for something like wedge pillows, or a recliner chair so you can sleep? If your company wants good work from you they could be flexible/helpful about your needs. Ergonomics is all the rage.



Staff member
Warman, just a guess, see what you think. Monkey has used you as a crutch for a long time, to help her ignore and have temporary escape from her bad home life. Now that you're busy with work travel and Bluebird, she could no longer make do, so she is "facing reality," got a job, to build a nest egg to really escape her unhappy marriage?


Warman, just a guess, see what you think. Monkey has used you as a crutch for a long time, to help her ignore and have temporary escape from her bad home life. Now that you're busy with work travel and Bluebird, she could no longer make do, so she is "facing reality," got a job, to build a nest egg to really escape her unhappy marriage?

I don't think so, however, it upsets me to think about. That probably means that there is some sliver of truth there. I mean, our relationship for years has been a thing where both of us got things we couldn't get in our regular lives. Monkey got someone who was actively engaged with her, and was really interested in her interests. Basically, someone who would pay attention to her for her own sake. I got some kind of female affection, both emotional and physical. On top of all of that, we both genuinely enjoy each other's company. Monkey is lots of fun to be around. She's funny, and for some reason we just click.

Not knowing where the future will lead Monkey and I is a source of constant worry for me. I've failed at so many relationships. Monkey is my longest relationship of any kind, if you don't count my parents. Making things work with her, was kind of symbolic in my head. If I can stay friends with someone, then I can make a Romantic relationship work too. Losing her makes me afraid.

I know that attachment is the source of my suffering. I know that I have to be willing to let go, if I'm going to be able to hold on. Bringing my heart in line with my mind is what I'm struggling with.

I think that were it not for her parents and her son, Monkey might already be gone. Maybe not. She really does love her hubby, but she's been so angry and disappointed in him for so long now, they may not last, even if he DOES get work. On the other hand, he may get a job, and things may go back to "normal" and that may be the end of all this. I guess we'll see.


New member
I've felt some of this same distress when close friends have drifted for various reasons. The good news is that much of the time, it's temporary. Hell, this happened to me and Guitarist when he was working thirds... and we were cohabitating. Life happens and it sucks.

In my opinion, at its core, a friendship is a relationship. You can stay friends with her through this. It's going to take a lot of effort on both of your parts, and it won't be the same, but relationships are constantly changing and people have to adapt. But you already seem to know that. Stupid hearts and taking time to catch up!

Anyway, it sounds to me like the relationship is meaningful for both of you, so I hope you guys find a way to adjust.


**Warning, the following is a stream of consciousness and a wall of text. You have been warned.**

Hey folks,

So much going on lately. I’ve been wanting to write here for weeks now, but it’s just been too much. For starters, I’ve been traveling for work. I’m in Las Vegas all this week, between the super long hours, and the lack of sleep (my broken back issues make sleep in hotel rooms next to impossible). Add that to the high amounts of stress outside my work life, and it’s just been a constant hustle to stay on top of things.

Things with Bluebird are going really well. I’ve been thinking about it lately, wondering if maybe I’m not at fault for the prominent “Why are you still in this relationship?” posts that I got here recently.
I’ve never considered myself “easy” to love. I’ve got issues. Monkey alone is a big stumbling block for some relationships. My mania and depression are huge ones. The fact that I’ve been unable to have a real relationship for the past decade plus means that I’m picky, have been hurt quite often, and am reluctant to commit. I’ve got health issues and I’m allergic to cats. There are LOTS of reasons not to date me.

My reasons for pointing out all those flaws there, is that ANY relationship I’m going to have I think will have…growing pains at bare minimum. I expect that Bluebird and I will continue to have the occasional head-bump (we did a few days back) but we have rules in place now to de-escalate them, and each time something comes up it’s been more minor than the times before. I think part of that is attributed more maybe to her trusting more that I’m not looking for a way out, and am really committed for the long run.

So, if you’ve been reading bluebird’s journal, you know that she’s had some shit going on lately. I found out about PunkRock’s drinking issue at 5:00AM one morning. I woke up to my phone ringing. At first I thought it was my alarm going off. It felt WAY too early. I finally figured it out, and answered it. It was Bluebird. She was crying and just said that she was on her way to my house and she needed to talk to me. I was confused, but she wouldn’t say more, so I went to the door. I walked straight there, and unlocked it, almost as soon as I did, Bluebird opened the door. At this point she was crying so hard I was having a hard time understanding her, and I was half asleep myself, so I told her to get undressed and get in bed with me. She did, and I finally got her to tell me the story. When her story was told I was somewhat shocked and pretty disheartened. (Long story short, she caught PunkRock, an alcoholic in recovery, with the smell of booze on his breath. When confronted he confessed that he had been drinking) So, having told her story, (still crying) she said that she expected me to dump her, that it was way too much, in addition to everything else happening, to try to deal with her family and herself in upheaval. I told her that it WAS a lot to deal with, and that I expected to have a talk with her about it later, but that I didn’t think we needed to break up. She seemed really surprised at this. She told me that DarkKnight had told her that he thought this would be the end of us. I assured her that I loved her very much, and that I loved her in good times and bad. After that I just tried to comfort her and get her to sleep. I listened until she ran down a bit, then I suggested she stay and sleep with me a while. I called in to work and told them I wouldn’t be in (it was almost 7 before we went to sleep). Eventually we got a couple of hours of sleep, and I took her home. They are dealing with it in a good way I think. The only thing that bothers me about this is WHY he did it, and why he didn’t tell Bluebird as soon as he had. I hope he feels better soon and is able to deal with whatever issues are bothering him and making him want to drink.

At first I was really worried about this, because the last time he was feeling tempted to drink, it was because I was dating Bluebird. I sure hope I don’t have anything to do with it this time.

So, with that over, things have been pretty good. I got snowed in with Bluebird, during the blizzard for 3 days and we had an enjoyable time together. I did NOT enjoy shoveling snow for 4 hours straight to get her out, but it was a nice visit besides that. The day before some fun toys arrived from Amazon and a fun time was had by all. We got a set of under the bed restraints, and I highly recommend them. :D

The Monkey situation continues to be difficult. I went over there the other day after she was gone to work and had a talk with her Husband and Son, and basically told them that it was time to get real, and help out, starting with finding jobs, ANY jobs. I also told them that they needed to TALK to Monkey, and make a plan, so she didn’t feel like she was alone in all this. They made all the right noises and agreed with me, but I’m not confident that they will DO anything about it. Monkey has been talking with me a lot lately about moving out of her house (alone). She doesn’t make enough to get her own place. That means she’d have to move in with me, or another friend nearby. Frankly, I don’t like the idea of her being with her other friends. I don’t think they would be that healthy for her, and I would see her even less than I do now. OF course, moving in with me would have issues too. Either A) she’d move in with me still there, or B) I’d move in with Bluebird and just keep renting the apartment so that she could live there alone. That second option would definitely be best for both of us. I had intended to keep it anyway for a month or 2 while I made sure that it was going to work living with Bluebird. However, if Monkey needs to leave sooner I’d rather share my space with her. Bluebird isn’t too thrilled with the idea. I’m pretty sure that we’d be fine living together, for the short time that it might be needed. Bluebird was upset saying that we wouldn’t be able to be together there, and that she really likes our private time there. I pointed out to her that this is EXACTLY what it will be like if I’m living in her house. When I pointed that out, she said “OK, I’m still not thrilled, but OK.” I think that the whole thing is pretty much a moot point though. I don’t think she’s going to leave. If she does, I have a feeling she’ll choose to stay with one of her other friends. I’ll worry about her, but I don’t have any control over it.

I’ve been traveling lots lately. This week I’m in Las Vegas all week. Jet lag has been fucking me over majorly, and due to my back problems and hotel beds, I’m not sleeping either. The job itself has been aggravating too, and I’ve really been missing Bluebird. Did I mention that I hate Vegas? If you could transmogrify a dirty old ashtray into a city you’d get Las Vegas (fun fact, Las Vegas means “the plains”.) Sorry if you live here, or love it here, I do not. Bluebird has been dealing really well with my absence. She’s far from happy about it, but it’s been OK, she’s been really busy, and I’ve been working gangbusters, skipping lunch and breaks trying to get it done early so I can go home. Things are going really well for me and Bluebird right now, and I hate being away from her for weeks at a time.

Monkey works nights now, and sleeps most days. I almost never see her anymore. It’s gone from daily contact, hours a day, to maybe 4 hours a week, and most of those she just sleeps next to me on the couch. I really miss her. Sometimes my heart aches from missing her. I’ve managed to compartmentalize it though, and it hasn’t been affecting my relationship with Bluebird.

I’m going to New Mexico to see my kids this month for my Son’s birthday. I’m looking forward to seeing them. The big news is that Bluebird is going to come with me for part of the trip. I talked to my kids about it, they said they were cool with it. My son said “she’s going to come all this way just to spend a few hours with us? Okaaay…” which is almost exactly what I said to her, but it’s important to her, and I guess I can understand why. So the tickets are purchased and the plans are all made. I kinda wish we were doing something more fun, and less expensive together, but I guess it’s important. I’m going to give my parents a chance to have dinner with us, I’ll let you know if they accept or not.

Bluebird is a really great girlfriend and I feel lucky to have her in my life. Things are going well, and all things considered, I’m pretty happy. When I’m with her things just feel right.

OK, I’ve stayed up as late as I can (trying to normalize my waking schedule), but I am hurting and need to sleep now.

I want to update more often, I’ll try, but my schedule has been hell lately.
Hope you’re well.
Last edited:


I’ve written this fucking update 5,6,7, 8 times now, counting last night.

I keep really wanting to write here, but things keep getting in the way. When I DO have some free time, I feel overwhelmed and tired and I just don’t have it in me. 7 times I’ve started writing, had to stop, and then days later, after so much has happened, I give up and delete what I wrote. I feel like things are changing almost too fast for me to update here, unless I quit my job. I checked to Bluebird to see if I could just get paid for sex, she said no, so I guess I’ll just have to keep my job and update when I can. It’s frustrating.

The good part about having Bluebird here is that I feel less guilty for not updating, as you hear about the major issues in my life. From her perspective anyway.

I've been feeling...sort of afraid to comment here honestly. See, I think it's sort of human nature to talk about the things that frustrate us most, while we hold onto the things that make us happy. Unfortunately, I think that means that people tend to write more of the things here that frustrate them, rather than the ones which make them happy. I'm not immune to that. I appreciate the advice I get here, I really do, but I think that my idea of dating and love might differ significantly from that of many of my readers. I guess I'm concerned about the negativity, both that that I spread and receive... I'm still thinking about it.

In the meantime: Things with Bluebird are good. I'm moving in with her at the end of the month. It's still scary to me, but I'm looking forward to it also. The scary parts are mostly just ghosts of relationships past.

I'm on call and have to be up in a few hours. Goodnight folks.


Staff member
You really need to update your signature...
Bluebird isn't a hinge in a vee any more. :)


New member
You can post whatever you want to post here... If you don't want advice, or feel like it's not helpful, in the blog section I think it's acceptable to ask that people not respond. One of the mods will correct me if I'm wrong.

This is your blog. Your sounding board. Your method of processing. If it's negative, that's okay. You should read some of the rants on my blog... That's the kind of thing this section is for.


You really need to update your signature...
Bluebird isn't a hinge in a vee any more. :)

hmm, that's interesting.

I mean, on one hand, Bluebird and I are very serious. I'm moving in with her...

On the other hand, Bluebird always makes it very clear that being MARRIED to the other boys is a big deal to her, and is more significant than just dating...

At this point, is she still a V between them and just dating me? Or...? I don't know. Frankly, terminology has always struck me as somewhat unimportant and sometimes silly (I can't hear the term "fluid bonding" without thinking it's incredibly silly, Sorry folks!), But I know several prominent poly-writers talk about how important terminology is... Definitely something to think about.


If you don't want advice, or feel like it's not helpful, in the blog section I think it's acceptable to ask that people not respond.

If I didn't want advice, I wouldn't write here at all. I don't need to write to process my feelings. I'm just worried, because I know my own nature, and I know that constant exposure to negativity can breed the same in me. I'm not really talking about the negativity of others even, but my own.

But no, I do want advice, good and bad, happy and not so happy. I'm just thinking about how to proceed.