Unbinding the briars of my joys & desires

Part 2

At this point, I’m sitting alone with my soda.

Saturday morning. (I was about to say THIS morning, but I just realized that it’s now technically Sunday.) I woke up a bit tired, but happy. I was going to spend a few hours with Bluebird (she had to bring her child to my town for school) before she left for her date night with Punkrock. I also had to run a few errands for Monkey’s birthday. We met up and got a few things, then went to the park to have a picnic. The weather was absolutely perfect. Bluebird was perfect. I was reminded yet again how lucky I am to have her in my life. Monkey had messaged Bluebird and was being friendly. Everything looked good, however I had forgotten my cell phone at home. No biggie right? I was only going to be out a couple of hours. Suddenly Bluebird’s phone starts to light up. BING BING BING. Bluebird looks at her phone, and her face drops. “Monkey says that she isn’t up to the dinner tonight, and she’s canceling everything.”

I was fucking livid.

Just that morning I had been coordinating with folks about coming down. People had babysitters. This was the second time in 3 days, and this time HOURS before it was supposed to start. Unfortunately, I let some of my frustration off the chain and expressed my anger out loud. Bluebird was unhappy, mostly that *I* was unhappy. After a minute or two, I was even angrier that once again Monkey frustration had stepped on my time with Bluebird.
So, we were basically out of time anyway, But we had planned on going back to my place for a bit of fun time before saying goodbye until Tues. I was trying hard to put the whole monkey thing out of my mind, but Bluebird wanted to talk about it. She basically said that she wasn’t in the mood anymore and instead wanted to talk about the situation with Monkey. I wasn’t angry with her really, but I kept trying to tell her that it wasn’t anything SHE needed to be concerned with, that I would deal with it after. Once it became clear that nothing was happening, I got even angrier than I was. I kissed Bluebird goodbye, got in my car, and went to Monkey’s house.

By the time I pulled into the driveway I was furious. Monkey said “hi” and smiled at me. I said “If you are smiling at me then you have no idea how I am feeling right now. We need to talk.”

What followed was an extremely unhappy discussion. It’s 1 AM and I’m tired. I’ve been writing this for hours, and I don’t want to talk about it anymore. In the end, we worked some stuff out, but I don’t know if it will be enough. I made it clear to her that our friendship hangs in the balance. When we were done she asked me to leave so that we could cool off and I did so. My other friends K and D had invited me over after Monkey's cancellation (“Don’t be alone and unhappy, come hang with us”) however when I called them after the fact, K admitted that they had kind of decided they might like an evening alone in the interim after having invited me out. I told them not to worry about it. So I went out and bought a Cheeseburger, nachos, a chocolate bar the size of my head, and a soda.

Which brings us back full circle. Cheeseburger gone, nachos cold and congealed and just tossed out, soda flat and chocolate bar picked at but not eaten. Pigging out didn’t really make me feel better, but talking did. Thanks for listening.
 
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{WarMan}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
 
There will be days when pain-in-the-ass shit gets in the way of happy plans, but all you can do is roll with it. Sorry that Monkey is so unstable, behaving erratically, and yanking your chain around, but her marriage is falling apart and that is hell (I've been there). I know Bluebird is very grounded, loving, and patient. You do sound like you managed things very well and in a level-headed way.

Things will get better, I am sure of it.

Now, back away from the chocolate and get some sleep. :)
 
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Maybe it's time to cut the cancer out of your life... Aka Monkey. She right now is a toxic person in your life and no one needs that.
 
Dagferi said:
Maybe it's time to cut the cancer out of your life...
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I feel really bad about this. I probably haven't done a very good job of representing Monkey here. If you only read this, and Bluebird's journal, you'd get the impression that Monkey IS a cancer, but that isn't so.

Monkey saved my life. When I was sick and completely alone in the world, she took me in and gave me a place to live. Beyond that, she gave me warmth and affection at a time in my life when I didn't have anything but anger and bitterness in my heart. When I was mean and cruel and crazy she treated me with as much love and affection as I would allow. Without Monkey there is no doubt in my mind that I would have been dead almost a decade now.

Beyond that, Monkey has been my biggest cheerleader when it comes to dating. She encourages me to get back out there when I'm depressed after a breakup. She admonishes and advises me on how to deal with and understand women. Yes, it is hard for her to see me date, but she does it anyway, even though she knows it will hurt her.

In Feb this year, her husband lost his job. The circumstances were extremely ugly, and while it was not his fault, the conditions were such that he's been blackballed in his industry. Several times now he's almost gotten jobs, only to have his prior employers kill the deal for him. They are vindictive as fuck.

Sadly, Monkey's parents had come to live with them, only a few months prior to him losing his job. They are somewhat bitter old folks, and now that Monkey's husband R has been out of work, they are worried too about money. (and with good cause). The financial situation there is getting desperate. Monkey worries constantly about the 5 members of her household ending up out on the street. They've been dealing with Lawyers and lawsuits and endless unhappiness for months and months now. Monkey isn't sleeping and because of her lack of insurance, she can't get her medication which controls her ADHD and depression. She's unmedicated and is the keystone to her whole family emotionally. Monkey's entire life is falling apart.

And then her best friend and closest ally got a new girlfriend and now she only sees him about half as much as she did, and she's dealing with the fact that she still loves him.

I can't find it in my heart to blame her for feeling the way she does, and for acting frantic and erratically. I told Bluebird the other night that she hasn't really even met the REAL Monkey. She's only met the panicked and fearful Monkey. Which makes me really sad.

I know that no matter what I can't just accept any behavior forever. But Monkey has earned a little forbearance. It worries me. I worry all the time that Bluebird will just decide that I'm too worried about Monkey to be any fun to be around and will decide that we are done. Last night while talking about this I saw a shadow of that in her eyes (or thought I did) and it scared me, because Bluebird is so important to me. And yet, I feel like to do any less would make me a person I don't care to be or be around.

I really wish I knew what to do.
 
WarMan said:
It's REALLY hard for me to ask for what I need when it comes to sex, unless the other person is clearly into what's happening. See, I have a high sex drive, even for a guy, I'm pretty much always up for it, unless I'm sick, or there are innocents nearby. But maybe because of that, I've gotten so used to having women treat my sex drive as an annoyance, or worse, that I'm really hesitant to ask for what I want. I've been mocked "Sheesh, Don't you ever think of anything else?" and even called names "Get away pig-boy!" Keep in mind, these were people I was dating, and had active sex lives with. Due to all of that, I find it really hard to ask for sex.
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You are not alone.
 
I'm sorry to hear that you're struggling right now with a close friend, and that she is struggling with some really harsh life events. I can completely understand why you would want to be patient with her and be there for her in her time of need when she's done the same for you and really been there for you. Personally, I think it's great that you're trying so hard to stick by her side, but I also think that it's a very delicate balance between supporting and enabling. Monkey is in love with you, and while there's nothing you can do about that and she can be in love with you if she wants, I'd worry that doing things like exchanging "I love you" statements or giving her a "sacrosanct" day of the week that is all hers.... which just sounds very date/relationship-like. I know you guys aren't sexual, but you seem to basically still have an emotional relationship, which is not particularly healthy, especially for her.

I can understand wanting to make sure that you still spend time with her and hang out with her, be supportive when she needs it, give it to her straight when she needs that too and is overstepping. But you might need to be careful about what interactions you guys have that go beyond friendship. Sure, plenty of people have friends that they exchange I love you with, or even cuddle or whatever.... but when one of those friends is actually in love with you and is a little unstable due to medical issues and other struggles, it seems like they'll only be even more hurt in the long run.

Regardless, I do hope that you and Money are able to work things out and continue to be friends since you both have clearly played very important roles in each other's lives!
 
I understand Monkey is important to you and help save your life. But she is in love with you and is either consciously or subconsciously trying to torpedo your relationship.

Actions speak louder than words. Do not get caught up in White Knight syndrome. You cannot save everyone.

Sometimes when you love someone you have to walk away for awhile when they are not healthy for you.
 
Ditto Monkey trying to sabotage your relationship with Bluebird.
 
I feel for you WarMan, you are in a tight spot.

Your loyalty to Monkey in her time of need is admirable, but you do have to allow yourself room to breathe and grow. Encourage her to get the help she needs (i.e. meds and counselling) but you cannot replace them (PS. There are resources available if she is in the US - but it takes knowledge, and stamina, to access them.)

BlueBird is known here on these boards, we love, respect and are rooting for her - so our responses may be biased.

It is totally possible to be a good friend to someone who loves you, but is inappropriate for you to be in a romantic relationship with - but it is vital (in my opinion) that the not "in love" person maintains strict boundaries. (In my own life this is "MrClean" - I love him, I care for him, I am sexually attracted to him - but I am not "healthy" for him and am not "in love with" him.)
 
WarMan, I understand that you feel like you owe her an awful lot, but obligation isn't always the best basis for a friendship. You still need boundaries, and she still needs to respect them.

Monkey may have devoted herself to you back then as one of many ways to avoid looking at her own life. It's really nice to have someone to fuss over if it takes your mind off your own shitty life, you know? I'm not saying her heart wasn't in it, but she did fall in love with you and there does seem to be a selfish element to her behavior.

Now she is in a bad way and envies what you have, creating drama, sabotaging your time with Bluebird, and interfering in your life. It is honorable that you want to reciprocate what she did for you, but you have to take care of you first (just like a parent has to put on their own oxygen mask in a disaster before putting it on their child), and this is the first time you've found a girlfriend who is really, really good for you. You need to prioritize. Monkey's marital and family issues won't be helped by you moving in and letting her cry on your shoulder. There are resources out there for her to get meds and whatever else she needs, but in all honesty, you can't do it for her.

Unfortunately, sometimes the most loving thing we can do for someone is to gently let go and carry on with our own lives. It doesn't mean it has to be forever, but Monkey may have to stumble and fall in order to grow and learn how to pick herself up.
 
I appreciate the advice everyone. While I might not be ready to cut Monkey off, just reading all of the suggestions has certainly made me examine my relationship with her.

I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet, as it seems that, even from the comments here, many people think that the "sick" parts of the relationship are my fault for being too permissive and not having boundaries. Things have gotten better since day one...but the process has been slow.

Boundaries. Can someone give me some concrete examples, based on what I've written? Right now that word is feeling something like coach telling me to give 110%. Sounds great, but I need something more specific, if anyone can provide I'd appreciate it.

Sometimes I feel like the best solution would be for me to master my own emotions more completely, that way Monkey can do what she wants and it won't leak over into my relationship with Bluebird. If I just didn't say anything about it, and didn't act upset, it wouldn't be a problem right?

Monday night went pretty well. I was there sitting with Monkey building models when Bluebird came in. Bluebird kissed me hello and monkey asked for a hug. It was monkey's way of saying "I'm sorry I've been crazy".

Every now and then I went over to pat Bluebird on the back and check on her game, but that was it. Monkey was pretty brittle with me all night, but it got better as the night went on. We left around 9, and I went to her place to watch videos with her for a while (It's a bedtime ritual). While I was sitting there, she painted a "tattoo" on my arm with her watercolors (she does that sometimes, she doesn't ask, just starts drawing, and I don't mind) I mostly washed it all off, but Bluebird seemed unhappy about it when she saw the remnants of it today. She didn't say anything about it out loud so I didn't bring it up other than to say that Monkey had painted it.

Tonight Bluebird came over after work, and we had a pretty nice meal at Panera (she got her husband-soup). After we came home we went over a chapter of "more than two" together. One of the things we went over was how our expectations tend to fuck us up more than other people's actions. We had a good example in our own lives, of something I had built up in my mind, that was never going to happen. All my fault, and could have been avoided if I had challenged my own expectations more, or talked about them with someone instead of privately blowing them out of proportion.

After that we had a nice romantic connection. Bluebird leaves me just...shell shocked. She's always vaguely worried afterwards, looking at me gasping, shuddering, and muttering "Jesus...holy...Fuck..." over and over. She rocks my tiny little world.


There was more here, but it's 2 AM, and the stuff left over was too heavy, so I didn't feel I could do it justice. Maybe more later.

Off to bed. Goodnight all :)
 
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Admittedly, I'm not the greatest at boundaries. One boundary I have is no drama. I refuse to participate in drama. If you want to freak out and be a drama queen, more power to you, but I won't participate. Example: Monkey's b-day fiasco, changing plans multiple times, without notice. When she cancelled plans the first time, I would have simply let her know I was sad and disappointed, but it is her b-day to spend as she wants and I understand, love her, and hope we can celebrate it at another time/another way. Then, I would have left the ball in her court to let me know when/where. No other discussion necessary.

Another example of no drama: My teen daughter would obsessively text me sometimes when she's in drama queen mode and I'm not home. I respond to her texts; however, if there's no emergency, she doesn't really need anything, and my answers aren't sufficing (ie she's just wanting to spin drama), then I tell her I'm busy, I love her, and we'll discuss any relevant issues later. Then, I stop answering. A couple times I had to turn off my phone but it worked....she rarely does the obsessive texting now.

Another good boundary is to limit contact when you're with Bluebird or doing something important to only emergency/necessary communication. You can either let Monkey know in advance, or when she texts/calls, simply reply: "I'm busy with _____, I'd love to talk to you, may I call you back at _____."

ETA: One last thing is that practicing the boundaries is one thing, learning to not allow yourself to be wound up by the drama is something totally different and takes more time. In the beginning, it felt really uncomfortable and I'd still get wound up mentally but the more that I practiced my boundaries, the more natural it felt and the less wound up I'd feel mentally.
 
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Some examples of boundaries that I would have in place are... For friends and or SO's

Limit contact during the time you are with Bluebird. If it isn't an emergency or absolutely necessary don't interrupt my quality time. Butch knows that if I am with Murf do not text or call me about nothing.

Do not bring drama into my life or my relationships. No acting out on your jealousy no acting like a spoiled child.

No disrespecting my partner. No being a frigid jerk or being passive aggressive. No making my partner feel uninvited to group activities.

No disrespecting me or dragging me through the mud. aka making me look like an ass
 
**This is specifically for Bluebird concerning her last post.**

My initial instinct is to argue with you about your self-description, but I know that wouldn't help.

The best I can tell you is that I find you attractive, for reasons that are all my own, and whether other people find you so doesn't matter much to me. I'm always proud to be seen with you.

Just to clarify, I try very hard to avoid saying those words you dislike so much. It does suck a bit that I have to choke those back, especially when I'm really feeling it, but it's something I will continue to work on. The only thing I found upsetting is when you tell me that I'm deliberately lying about the words I say. I don't mind that you disagree with me. I disagree when you call me handsome, but I don't think you're lying. To have a deeply felt feeling and then to be told that I'm deliberately lying to deceive is what I find hurtful. It's the same feeling I had when ex-wife insisted that I did not really love my children during the divorce. To have something so important to me denied so forcefully was what was hurtful.

I love you with all of me, and although I don't like this one tick, in the grand scheme of things, it's not such a big deal. I will continue to try hard to remember not to confront you with this. Please forgive me when in moments of strong emotion I forget.
 
Thank you for the suggestions Pinkpig and Dagferi.

The drama one is hard for me, because I'm a talker and listener, and shutting people down just feels wrong to me. However, I'm better about choosing when I will listen and when I won't than I used to be.

As far as "Don't message me while I'm with X-person" I've done this already to an extent. This is far easier for me than it is for Bluebird. After the second night of standing bedside for 20 minutes or so, waiting for her to conclude a talk at 11PM with one of her guys, I asked and received a basic guideline that when she's with me we try to say goodnight to our various people at around 9PM. Doesn't always happen, but it's pretty close. Monkey actually hates to message me in any way when she knows I'm with Bluebird. She actively avoids it, so it's not much of an issue really for us.

Those are good examples. Thank you both.
 
I like listening, too (& talking!) If the conversation is constructive and not just about drama, then sure, I'll participate. But, when it crosses the line into 'all about drama', 'all about gossip,' or 'negative nancy just want to keep saying why my life sucks and nothing will every make it better' mode, that's where I draw the line.
 
I am an outgoing introvert. I am a listener not a talker. I have never liked having to make small talk. I am blunt to a fault. If I have someone in my life they are special. My friends are family to me. Hell I don't have anything to do with most of my own family due to their drama and etc. But I am the one my friends call in middle of the night in an emergency.

But I have learned that you sometimes have to let someone fight their own demons and battles. For example My best friend of 20+yrs who is a musician fell hard into drugs about 15 years ago. He was closer to me than family. I love that man to death but I had to cut him out of my life for close to a decade. I watched his international success from a far. He kept tabs on me through his Oma and other memebers in his band that I remained close to. I could not have his drama in my life, I couldn't help him, it broke my heart. He kicked his habit and about 7 years ago I let him back in my life.

Just because you step back doesn't mean you don't love them.
 
I've been recently drawn into family drama and had to set some boundaries. Oh my goodness it was hard. Since I tend to learn by example I'm going to set out my process and hope it helps.

Setting the boundaries:
1) I figured out what was really upsetting me. In my case, it was name calling and he-said she-said around my patents' marital arguments. Other stuff upset me, but that stuff sent me right over the edge.
2) I emailed them and said that loved them and wanted to be there for them, but it was damaging my mental health to listen to those arguments.
3) I said if they continued doing those things, I would cut off contact.

That stuff was difficult. Telling my parents I would not listen to certain stuff... I felt amazingly selfish and like a horrible daughter. It was still less horrible than listening to it. But the harder part was...

Enforcing the boundaries:
1) When mom said something disparaging about dad, I told her she wasn't respecting my boundaries. Mom stopped immediately. That was a huge relief; dad was not so easy.
2) I had to hang up on my father when, after a warning, he wouldn't quit.
3) I had to stop taking his calls. If his voicemails crossed my boundaries, I did not call him back.
4) I had to endure passive aggressive voicemails about how if I loved him, I would take his calls.
5) When I did call him back and he was calm, if he started saying "I shouldn't tell you this but" and I would have to say "then please don't" and be prepared to end the conversation if he didn't.

It was the hardest thing I've ever done, because I do love my dad. But it helped me avoid a place of soul-crushing despair and I honestly think that if I hadn't held firm, we might not have a relationship left to salvage.

So I guess what I'm saying is, my process was about four steps: figure out what I couldn't stand, figure out the solution/boundary, communicate it in a loving way, and enforce it. I can't give you examples involving your specific situation, though, because I can't get in your head about what is really bothering you.
 
WarMan said:
Monkey worries constantly about the 5 members of her household ending up out on the street. They've been dealing with Lawyers and lawsuits and endless unhappiness for months and months now. Monkey isn't sleeping and because of her lack of insurance, she can't get her medication which controls her ADHD and depression. She's unmedicated and is the keystone to her whole family emotionally. Monkey's entire life is falling apart.
Click to expand...

What really helps me in relationhips is to remind myself that real solutions are never about the other person's behavior, they are always about me, how I see things and what I'm choosing to focus upon. What I tune into, what bothers me, what brings me joy, it's always about what I choose to tune into. You see Monkey as the lifeline for these people (I'm picturing the bedridden grandparents in Charley and the Chocolate Factory) and that may or may not be true but more importantly, you see yourself as the lifeline for Monkey. The fact is, any household in which one person is the emotional keystone is a household with few boundaries and little sense of personal responsibility. Likewise, if you see yourself as Monkey's emotional keystone, you're taking way more personal responsibility than is helpful for either you or her. Again, boundary stuff. Boundaries seem to be a huge issue for you, an area that you really tune into with people, so instead of focusing on what Monkey is doing or messing up with, focus on how you can improve your sense of how much you're responsible for. Any drama going on in your world is happening for your benefit - always, always, always. Seeing it this way (as opposed to seeing it as a PITA that must be removed) will help you mold a better overall life for yourself. I think many would call this co-dependency and enabling, but those are just overused buzz words for trying to make life better by pleasing others instead of coming from a place of inner fullness because you have really good boundaries.

You seem like a great guy and has been said, we love Bluebird and are all cheering for the collective You. What would help you tremendously is for you to (in your heart - don't even need a "conversation") offer Monkey a general stream of love, but otherwise know that her issues are her issues and not yours to fix. You can love her and let her be separate and capable (in your mind's picture of her.) Let yourself be separate and capable, as well. That's a good boundary to start with.
 
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