Unicorns & Unicorn Hunters - Merged Threads, General Discussion

Hi ainmosninsomnia,

Sorry you have had an unpleasant experience with being labeled as this or that when I am sure you are unique people and not so easily labeled. "Unicorn hunting" (with its couple privilege and other such nasties) is a pet peeve on Polyamory.com, and you will hear a lot about it. All I can tell you is that you'll do fine as long as you avoid the common pitfalls. Among the most common are: assuming the woman you seek won't want to date anyone except the two of you, assuming she'll love both of you equally, assuming she won't mind being left out of your extended family events, assuming she'll want the same thing you want in the way of kids, and assuming she won't mind being your housekeeper and/or babysitter. If you can avoid those pitfalls, then things don't look so bleak.

You must excuse our forum for being biased, because most of the triad-seeking couples we encounter here fall into all of those pitfalls. We've seen it happen all too many times.

I hope you find the right person for you and have the kind of relationship with her that you desire.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
"Where's my unicorn, damn it?!"

So, this is sort of ranty, but I feel like it needs to be said: one of the things I find most frustrating about unicorn hunters is their attitude, honestly. Much more so than the misguided way they go about things, or the unwillingness to understand the very small likelihood of finding their unicorn, or the strong likelihood that things will explode, it's the attitude. When people in, or open to, other configurations post or seek out poly groups IRL, in my experience, they rarely have this same attitude. It is this attitude that, I think, makes these kinds of triads fail so spectacularly if the couple ever finds a unicorn, and then they go looking for another one (because, clearly, it wasn't them, it had to be the "third").

People open to/looking for other configurations overall seem much more open to introspection, discussion, self-reflections, and real conversations about poly, and value the experiences and advice of people with more experience. UH's are, with some very rare exceptions, almost exactly the opposite. When more experienced poly people try to have discussions that may not be exactly what the UH's want to hear, or to ask relevant questions, or provide relevant answers, experiences, articles, etc., the UHs almost invariably get all pissed off because "they know what they want," they don't need to learn anything, and they deserve their unicorn, damnit! They cannot be made to see, no matter how gently and reasonably it's shown to them, that their actions and words are objectifying, that there are things that would help them be more successful in both finding and possibly retaining relationships, etc.

This attitude doesn't exist in a vacuum, meaning it doesn't just exist when they're looking for their unicorn, but after they find her/him. Then they wonder why it all blows up horribly. The UH's seemingly don't understand that their lack of willingness to process other points of view, to see things from other perspectives, to be open to advice and experiences from those who have been through it, are all red flags that the kind of relationship they're seeking is going to end badly because they're not emotionally equipped to deal with it.
 
Natja, it's something I've been thinking on for a while, but had a difficult time putting into words. When I meet people who are interested in or new to poly relationships that aren't poli-fi triad unicorn hunts, it's a much different vibe. It's less intense, more relaxed, more inquisitive, more open, more thoughtful. Those looking for a unicorn tend to want to come off as so "relaxed" and "open," but almost always come across as pushy, intense to a point of creepiness, and demanding.

I am sure there are exceptions, of course, but as a general rule, they're just really difficult to talk to and off-putting. Which makes me want to have zero to do with them, though I love the idea of an egalitarian triad/quad/whatever.
 
I don't like the way unicorn hunters act, but I also think sometimes we flatter ourselves that we're diplomatic because of how very much we'd like to tackle the unicorn hunters with much stronger language. No matter how disgusting someone's attitude and behavior is, the only worthwhile solution from where I'm sitting is to figure out how to keep them engaged, rather than giving them an excuse to stomp off. Once someone stomps off, the forum's ability to help that person (and by extension that person's future victims) is snuffed out.

Sure non-unicorn-hunters seem to be more appreciative and open-minded, but that's because they're not failing so spectacularly in the first place. And thus, we have less reason to castigate them. It's when we have all the reason in the world to castigate someone that I wish we'd be extra careful. Sure the reality is that seeking the advice of internet strangers exposes you to castigation and so you shouldn't be surprised when that's what you get. But wouldn't it be nice if Polyamory.com could (mostly) be an exception to that rule? What harm would be done?

Of course, this is coming from someone who naïvely believes that there's always (or 99% of the time) a gentle way to deliver the truth. Everyone has their own beliefs, and their own way of acting on them. I'm just throwing 2¢ in on the off chance that it'll serve some useful purpose.
 
Kevin, you may be right. As much as I was talking about online, though, I was also talking about real life. Being a bi female, pretty much every unicorn hunter ever hits on me if they even get an inkling I "dig chicks," regardless of... well, anything, actually-- if I've known them for more than 5 minutes, whether I am looking for partners or not, interested in them or not, have anything at all in common with them at all, etc. Come to think of it, many have hit on me just because I am a female, and females are assumed to be open to the idea of having sex with other women because...well, reasons.

In some cases they've known I'm open to polyamory, and in some cases they have no idea if I am mono, poly, or whatever, let alone if I am bi, married and committed, etc. They so rarely bother to care, especially since I don't wear rings (I can't, for my job).

Also, the "hitting on" can get pretty triggery. It often borders on (and, frankly, sometimes crosses the lines of) stalking. It is creepy as hell. I'm a very assertive person, with no problems standing up for myself, so I can only imagine this is even worse for women that may be less outspoken.

What we see here is actually, in most cases, pretty tame. There is a really good reason I don't do IRL poly groups (though, to be fair, this has happened to me at random venues, too). So, I admit I am probably not always the most democratic of people when it comes to this topic, and perhaps I need to be more mindful.

When I engage with people who are interested in different configurations of polyamory, here or IRL, I rarely get any of those things, regardless of whether people are interested in me romantically/sexually or not. The other bi women I know tend to have similar experiences, as have many hetero poly women.

So, I suppose it's just that patience runs out sometimes. I am not always the world's most patient person with any adult who has a bad attitude. (I consider acting entitled "attitude.") It's one of the reasons I'm glad your more softly-worded posts balance things out.
 
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Well, I thank you for your understanding response; my perspective is more limited because I haven't been personally targeted by unicorn hunters IRL. And I agree that acting entitled constitutes an attitude.

Actually, what bugs me the most is when someone (and unicorn hunters do seem to be the most often guilty of this) asks me a direct, difficult question ... and then I give a direct, well-researched answer ... and then, instead of so much as acknowledging that, the person who asked either changes the subject or just plain drops off the map. It's as if unicorn hunting is "polyamory, ADD style."

If I could herd a bunch of unicorn hunters into a room (and lock the door so they couldn't get out), I'd ask them where on earth they got this unicorn-hunting idea, and why it's so popular. Oh sure there's lots of theories, but I wish I could hear it straight from the horse's mouth.
 
Your responses are always well-thought-out and understanding, so I am glad you found mine the same!

And yep, that is part of what bugs me, as well. It's as though, the moment there's any part of an answer that may not be applause for their decision to seek out a mutual GF to share, no matter how well reasoned and stated the answer to is, they check out. Here, they tend to just not respond/return. IRL, they often just keep repeating back to you why they are awesome and what they're doing is totally the right way and how different they are. They're not. I can usually predict what they're going to say before they say it because I've heard it so many times, as though I didn't speak.

What I speak of above as my IRL experience with unicorn hunters is, unfortunately, what most bi women I know have experienced, including ones who aren't poly, and the experience of many poly women, including ones who aren't bi! It really isn't about the woman in question at all; she is generally treated as an object. It's about the couple who "wants" her. There are some things that mean a woman will likely experience it more or less often, i.e., race, visible marital status symbols, age, and, to a lesser degree, socially-accepted norms of attractiveness can play a part in the frequency, as can the demographics of the area everyone lives in. But, it's been a pretty universal experience among those women I know. Yes, this is anecdotal, not scientific, and I am sure there are exceptions.

kdt26417 said:
Well, I thank you for your understanding response; my perspective is more limited because I haven't been personally targeted by unicorn hunters IRL. And I agree that acting entitled constitutes an attitude.

Actually, what bugs me the most is when someone (and unicorn hunters do seem to be the most often guilty of this) asks me a direct, difficult question ... and then I give a direct, well-researched answer ... and then, instead of so much as acknowledging that, the person who asked either changes the subject or just plain drops off the map. It's as if unicorn hunting is "polyamory, ADD style."

If I could herd a bunch of unicorn hunters into a room (and lock the door so they couldn't get out), I'd ask them where on earth they got this unicorn-hunting idea, and why it's so popular. Oh sure there's lots of theories, but I wish I could hear it straight from the horse's mouth.
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GreenAcres said:
When more experienced poly people try to have discussions that may not be exactly what the UH's want to hear, or to ask relevant questions, or provide relevant answers, experiences, articles, etc., the UHs almost invariably get all pissed off because "they know what they want," they don't need to learn anything, and they deserve their unicorn, damnit! They cannot be made to see, no matter how gently and reasonably it's shown to them, that their actions and words are objectifying, that there are things that would help them be more successful in both finding and possibly retaining relationships, etc.
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I have noticed this entitled, defensive attitude as well.
 
Conversely, I've noticed while lurking here that most comments directed towards so called UHs have been not so favorable. Why is this? Why are others so quick to be judgmental without fully reading and understanding these posts? We weren't hunting and have stumbled into a situation that is not looked upon in a favorable way here. Why is it so that others can have multiple partners that have little to nothing to do with each other, and that's more acceptable than honest triads? If all we were looking for was sex, we wouldn't be here to learn about how others have dealt with poly relationships. Perhaps if others weren't being so judgmental some wouldn't be so defensive.
 
Just because someone is in a triad does not mean they are a unicorn hunter. It doesn't sound, from your post, as though you would fit the definition of a unicorn hunter at all. So, I don't think these comments are directed at you. If you read through the posts, you'll notice that the term "unicorn hunter" is very specifically couples targeting certain things, and certain types of situations.

If you do a site search on unicorns, unicorn hunting, and triad, as well as reading the entirety of this thread, you will probably understand why couples who fit the unicorn hunter definition receive advice they don't generally like. This is not the same as people being negative, though that certainly happens as well, in large part because people who have seen how badly the vast majority of unicorn hunting goes, especially for the unicorn.

You will almost always also hear that, while triads are very difficult to maintain, they can be great when they fall together naturally, which is not what's happening in a unicorn hunt. I have never seen anyone say that triads are not acceptable, or a better way to do things than partners and not interacting; but, they are more difficult to maintain, in many cases. That certainly doesn't make them bad, it just requires a good bit of work.

Again, though, simply because someone is in a triad does not mean they were unicorn hunters, and so the comments regarding unicorn hunters would have nothing to do with them.
 
The very short version is that unicorn hunting is almost always a case of objectifying the unicorn, of expecting him or her to fulfill all of the couple's needs, to fit into a very small, predetermined box, to love the couple equally, or be dumped; to fit into their life plan, usually giving up his/her life plans, or be dumped; to be treated as a secondary forever, and if ever inconvenient, he/she again is dumped. Surely, you can see why this would elicit negative reactions.

Because I am on my phone, I can't readily link articles, but do a Google search on "So someone called you a unicorn hunter." That might give you a more full explanation of what people here mean when they are commenting on unicorn hunting. Also, do a site search here on secondaries, unicorns, and unicorn hunting. It will probably give you a better idea of where some of the attitudes come from, some of the wreckage that can be caused, and a better idea of what unicorn hunting looks like when talked about in the poly world.
 
I/we have been perusing the forum for about a week now and there is just so much here to sift through. My wife is much more adept at forum interaction than I am. We are both trying to catch up on the years of posting here. We are carefully crafting our posts and comments to be sure to express and understand our feelings. No matter which one of us identifies as posting, rest assured that, just as irl, we are sharing with each other before we comment about anything, whether it's here or while texting our gf. Thank you for your words and recognition of what and where we are right now.
 
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Re (from WeWerentHunting):
"We weren't hunting and have stumbled into a situation that is not looked upon in a favorable way here."
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As GreenAcres said, if you stumbled into a triad situation, then no, you wouldn't be considered a unicorn hunter. Unicorn hunters are those who intentionally go out and seek a third to add to their marriage/relationship. (And who have a few other qualifications.)

I don't believe people think unicorn hunters just want sex; I believe people think that unicorn hunters burden, with unfair expectations, a woman they haven't even met yet. Possibly the craziest and most common of these expectations is that said woman should fall in love with both members of the "unicorn-hunting couple" equally, though there are many other unreasonable expectations we often encounter here.

The other main problem is that the couple tends to see "the unicorn" as a disposable object. If she fails to live up to all that is expected of her -- heck, if the wife of the couple starts to feel jealous for any or no reason -- then, the unicorn woman will be dumped posthaste. Doesn't matter how much that woman will be hurt in the process.

That narrative has played out so many times that the forum members here have grown hypersensitive to the subject of "unicorns," and are constantly on the lookout for those who hunt them. We don't want any more "eligible" women to get hurt.

But, I won't argue that dogpiling on the unicorn hunters isn't counterproductive. Hence my Post #146 above.

---

The article, "So, Someone Called You a Unicorn," can be found at http://davidlnoble.livejournal.com/176039.html
 
Thank you, kdt, for your words, as well.

Maybe this is or isn't the right thread to carry on with this, and if so, someone please direct us in the right direction.

Whereas I, the hubby, cannot say that some of my initial thoughts on this situation had been at least slightly sexual, I have grown a compassionate and caring friendship with this woman whom my wife has a history with. So we have concentrated our efforts to make her as comfortable as possible.

My greatest fear right now isn't that I'd lose my wife, but that she'll lose this friendship because of me. We have been reassured by her that she is interested in pursuing this relationship with us, at her pace. However, currently she has male relationship issues and that has been a blockage for us as a whole. More important to us is her friendship, no matter any other outcome.
 
Sounds reasonable enough.

If you seek advice for your personal situation, I suggest you start a new thread in the Poly Relationships Corner. If you merely wish to share your story, I suggest you start a new thread in Life stories and blogs. Considering that I don't see your situation as a unicorn hunting situation, it would probably be appropriate to branch off onto a thread of your own. So try one of the links given in this post.

Be as thorough as you can in describing your situation, especially if you're seeking advice.
Regards,
Kevin T.
 
WeWerentHunting said:
Whereas I, the hubby, can not say that some of my initial thoughts on this situation had been at least slightly sexual, I have grown a compassionate and caring friendship with this woman whom my wife has a history with. So we have concentrated our efforts to make her as comfortable as possible. My greatest fear right now isn't that I'd lose my wife but that she'll lose this friendship because of me. We have been reassured by her that she is interested in pursuing this relationship with us, at her pace. However, currently she has male relationship issues and that has been a blockage for us as a whole. More important to us is her friendship, no matter any other outcome.
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That is a very healthy outlook, and I hope things work out. And, btw, sex isn't taboo here. :) The issue with those unicorn hunting (which you're not) isn't necessarily the sex issue (though it can be that, too), but that the "unicorn" they're seeking is usually not treated as a real person, but rather as an accessory or, as NYCindie appropriately puts it, a condiment to the marriage/original couple relationship.
 
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