Unicorns & Unicorn Hunters - Merged Threads, General Discussion

[london]

There's a clear bias against unicorn hunters. I don't care what choices people make, as long as the reasons they made them are not based on fear or hostility.

 

[Root]

You say you're here to learn, but you appear to be more interested in defending your initial position than anything else. My suggestion is that you read up on unicorn hunters, both here and elsewhere, and either stop getting defensive when people answer your questions, or stop asking questions you don't want answered.

He had (and has) an opportunity to answer my questions. They are actual questions. If he wants to respond, or you want to respond, I'll read a productive response. If you think I'm lying and being defensive, then I'm probably not worth your time.

I'm not here to explain why or understand you as the yewneek individual you are, or be your relationship coach. You came on here and asked a bunch of stuff and I posted my bit.

I think YOU are the one who is being "hostile." You say you want to hear what other people think, but you really want to hear all about how fabulous and self-aware you are because you are NOT LIKE all those OTHER unicorn hunters.

Predictable.

I actually appreciated what you said on a few points. I wanted to understand your opinions on others. I wanted to explain my reasoning. I'm actually interested, but I'm dubious as to whether or not you'll believe me. If you don't, I don't see how I'm worth your time or why you're wasting any on me.

I don't want to make any assumptions about you, Root, because in general, doing so is not good practice, and I have my own views of what exactly constitutes the behavior that actually is abusive, which is what I would call a true unicorn hunter. Treating you and spouse as abusive hunters, unless you are, is wrong.

And because everyone will agree that abuse is wrong, as well as treating you as an abuser when you are not, is not the two sides that people are quick to line up with or on.

These types of topics really shouldn't be discussed, pardon my French, for the fuck of it. Which is the only reason I am going to say this, because unless you have never had a profile account here at polyamory.com, or at least never an active one, bringing up this topic as a fresh new face is not a good idea. But I would be hard pressed to be able to say for sure, and it being wrong to just assume, I will take you at your word if you say otherwise. But because of the situation, I feel it is appropriate to ask if you are really as fresh a face as 5 posts makes you appear? Not that I am of any authority or you under any obligation to answer

I assume you're floating the idea of me being a sock? I'm not sure if I should be flattered or a bit worried. I really am a newbie. Most of what little I know is from reading these forums and poking through articles online.

That said, I really wasn't hoping to cause much conflict. It's hard to miss the kind of negative attention these threads get if you bother reading the forums a little before posting. I was hoping that trying to be somewhat humble would mitigate things, and give a chance to get some answers without upsetting people, but I guess I did a poor job of conveying that, given some of the responses.

That said, sorry if this seemed "for the fuck of it." My wife and I were genuinely hoping for some non-trivial info or meaningful articles.

And to your later post, it's really fine. You were very polite. I guess I'm just surprised anyone would think that.

We are very newly exploring a triad, and all sorts of unexpected feelings have come up....you just can't really be prepared for everything. I concur with an earlier poster here who said that successful triads have started with one member of the couple dating someone separately and then slowly introducing the other member of the couple. For us, this all happened naturally-we weren't searching for it at all. I don't know about you, but my husband and I are nearly complete opposites, so finding someone who actually hits it off with both of us is pretty amazing.

Feel free to read through my blog, I've just started it, and pm me if you'd like. I posted a question much like this one (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44029), and my fave advice was from Marcus:

"When it's good, enjoy the crap out of it... when the attention doesn't seem to be coming your way... remember that they aren't responsible for your happiness and take responsibility for it yourself. Remember that a "relationship" isn't a thing, it's just a word used to describe two or more *individuals* sharing themselves to whatever degree for a period of time."

Although we all enjoy the hell out of being together, having one-on-one time as dyad couples is very important. It's becoming more important than I imagined it would be. Feelings change, often very quickly, and expecting everyone to all feel the same is completely unreasonable. For me, I felt too much pressure to be on the same "new & exciting" page as FJ & MD, and I'm not. I have my own special relationship with MD that I want to nurture and develop naturally. FJ and I are not a "package deal".

Keep reading and asking yourself the hard questions. Don't think to yourself, "Oh, but we won't be like that/feel like that."

My wife and I are very similar. I think we both hoped that it would help make things less completely unrealistic and more mostly unrealistic. Anyway, we'll be talking more later about the issue of trying to do dating "together." I think we understand that it's not as reasonable as we might like.

Plenty of people have said it. We're not entirely sure how to handle that. Part of the issue is that my wife says she's uncomfortable taking a relationship beyond a certain point without my involvement; maybe she could say more about that, since I'm not psychic (hint, hint). The other issue is honesty about that, and our intentions from the beginning. And finally a plain desire for mutual involvement, which I'm pretty sure I'm rambled about.

I'll certainly look through the blog. It's appreciated.

I do admit I'm worried we just don't have a realistic view of this. I doubt we'd pursue it for some while until there's a better sense of having gotten through the harder questions. I do think we mutually have a desire for excessively close relationships that wouldn't necessarily be many people's pot of tea, but I guess that's something to figure out on our own.

Again, thanks!

Alright, not even 10 posts in and already we have a new member reading hostility here.

Just a reminder to everyone that this forum exists for people to come and ask their questions, and be treated with respect. And yes, that applies to unicorn hunters, as well, as their journeys in poly are as valid as any others.

Unless you think he was being hostile, I wouldn't put much stock in that. Like I said, if that wasn't his intention, oh well. I am kind of a stupid newbie. I just wish the follow-ups might've considered that, instead of jumping the gun.

 

[BoringGuy]

I'm re=posting my first post in this thread with colors and formatting because I'm so FRUSTRATED by the baby-sitting and hand-holding that takes place on here. I went through this effort JUST to prove that I'm not "hostile". If I were "hostile" I would have left a long time ago.

1. What can we do in our position to be polite to the rest of the poly community and not be horribly obnoxious, both in real life and on the forums? We'd both like to avoid being, 'that guy,' 'that girl,' or I guess in this case 'that couple.'

Drop the "we-speak", get used to saying "I", "me", "you", "both of us", etc. Stop thinking of you two as one unit. Make separate profiles on forums (on this forum you are not supposed to share a profile) and dating sites. Get into the mindset that you are two separate people. Get comfortable with not being all up in each other's business day in day out.

6. Is dating together a really poor idea, or does it just make things harder, or...? My wife and I would like to do it together if possible; we think it would be fun. If it's considered in bad taste or makes it near impossible, however, we'd like to know. If you're of the opinion that it's not advisable, is there any advice on how to work the additional person in later down the line? Again, silly question that's very situation specific, but it seems worth asking. If it's reasonable or can be done if done right, is there anything to make it more platable for the potential individual? We can imagine specifics like trying not to be too much of a 'unit' during the whole affair (at least, I'd find it awkward if I was in their position), but it'd be nice to hear anything relevant since we're still pretty clueless.

7. We think we're prepared for this and we've put some thought into it (and continue to). But we're both vaguely aware that all the planning in the world often doesn't matter. We've been monogamous for all our lives and both of us very heavily so. We're wondering what kinds of issues we may run into once things start progressing (if we're lucky), and if there are any really common scenarios? We're aware jealousy and unfairness are pretty obvious issues to run into as well as a few other things, but there's probably a lot we wouldn't think of.

I think that married people who spend all their time together and feel like they should date "as a couple" because they are joined at the hip and have no separate interests or relationships are not ready/suited for nonmonogamy.

2. What can we do to be polite to others when trying to make our intentions clear? I realize this is really situational, but some nebulous advice would be nice. The reasoning behind this is that we've realized that simply poking around 'likely' areas online (like this one!) isn't the most realistic stance to take, but we'd also like to not make friends or likely acquaintances too uncomfortable if possible.

3. What makes a well established couple comfortable to work into if you're polyamorous? We've already gotten over the 'treat them like a real relationship' stage of ignorance, so no lists of weird rules or behind-the-back whispering between ourselves, but there's probably things that we haven't heard about yet and haven't thought about that would be helpful to know.

^^^^^^See this?^^^^^^

See this:
Also, if you go around meeting women and constantly thinking, "Are you in a relationship? Are you bi? Are you attracted to my wife? Are you interested in being in a triad? What does your family think of marriage? What color is your toothbrush? Do you enjoy caring for children and walking dogs?" then you are going to<-- this is a FUTURE POSSIBILITY, not an observation! READ! put out one hell of a creepy vibe.



Editorial: Boring Guy's thoughts - not to be confused with the OP's questions/thoughts:
I do not understand this whole "Yay we're poly now! Let's go find someone to be in a poly relationship with! It's our lifestyle! Yippee!" mentality. I'm one of those, "Here's A, here's B. I don't have to pick one and leave the other" people. Like, when you're in a relationship already and you happen to meet someone you'd date "if I was single"... You don't need the "if i was single" in order to do that. But not, "we want a relationship with a bisexual female. How do we get one of those?"

Anyway, this is probably a lot to read. We hope someone takes the time; if so, thanks!

You're welcome. Any time.

Even moreso

Ok, you're twice as welcome twice as much of the time.

if you have the time to respond to any of the above,

No good deed goes unpunished.

or shove us in the direction of an article or post you think would be enlightening.

I'd like to shove something in a direction, but that might come across as "hostile" so I'll just tickle you with a peacock feather instead. How's that?

 

[YouAreHere]

Yeesh. <brushes off dust>

To my brain, the "We're looking for..." mentality can give off a "desperate" vibe, regardless of whether it's mono or poly. "I'm looking for a GF - are you her?" is just as bad as "We're looking for a GF - are you her?"

I agree with BG's initial post in that if you find someone you want to date, cool... talk to them. Have them meet your wife. See if there's a spark. Let it happen organically.

You're excited because this is new, and it's a whole new world open to you, but looking BECAUSE you're poly really makes about as much sense as looking BECAUSE you're mono and available. People do it all the time, but it's best to find what's in front of you and enjoy the ride.

 

[BoringGuy]

You're excited because this is new, and it's a whole new world open to you, but looking BECAUSE you're poly really makes about as much sense as looking BECAUSE you're mono and available. People do it all the time, but it's best to find what's in front of you and enjoy the ride.

It's like realizing you're gay or bi and being all, "I just HAVE to find a same-sex partner right NAO! Where are all the gay people? Oh, you're gay? Wanna have a relationship?"

 

[Magdlyn]

There are so many newbies lately (not the OP, but others, maybe one reported BG's post?), wanting every post from helpful members to be couched in the sweetest candy coating, and to oh-so gradually initiate them into how to healthfully and happily negotiate this or that poly outcome. Some people here prefer to speak directly. We're all busy people. Some of us don't have time to make every post sound like it's shooting out of the ass of your favorite fairy godmother along with fluffy kittens and rainbows.

And yet, those same people who at first object to the directness, often then are grateful for it a few days later, after thinking on it a spell.

Anyway, OP, hi.

Try to take dirtclustit with a grain of salt. He has a conspiracy theory that most people here who speak against unicorn hunters are socks of the writer Franklin Veaux.

Personally, I am not a sock. I am experienced in poly.

Sadly, my ex-husband and I started out in 1999 as dreaded unicorn hunters ourselves. It went spectacularly wrong. She loved him, not me; they were in total NRE and called themselves soulmates; he neglected me, the kids, the house; I went on antidepressants for a year; I used the dreaded veto; he and she remained friends; he and I did a year of weekly couples counseling with an alternative-friendly therapist; he did a year of individual counseling; I did 3 years; then 7 more years of exhausting talks between us passed by.

Finally we broke up, after 30 years together. Not just because of poly, but he and the woman in question started living together 6 months after he and I separated.

Needless to say, once I became single, the last thing I wanted was to ever be a unicorn hunter (or a unicorn) again.

Instead, I dated on my own; got a gf; continued dating on my own; so did she; eventually (three years later), I got a bf. He and she are somewhat attracted to each other; we've had a few threesomes; hung out together a lot; but it's still more of a V than a triad.

Unicorn hunting is DANGEROUS.

Unicorns are often women with low self esteem and not much financial security, who want a Mommy and a Daddy to take care of them. Then they start feeling like second-class citizens, with no rights, just a toy to spice up someone's marriage.

 

[Dagferi]

I am posting via my smart phone. No the most friendly medium to post long flowery replies from. Not that flowery is my style anyway.

Apparently you are another couple looking to be patted on the head and told what they want to hear.

Good luck in your search. My advice is this-- relationships are organic things that you can not mold into the shape you want. People are not things you share like toys. If you are looking to spice up your marriage, then go shopping at the local adult store. Just because TV has romanticized "polyamory" recently, doesn't mean it is so easy in real life.

 

[Natja]

Unicorns are often women with low self esteem and not much financial security, who want a Mommy and a Daddy to take care of them. Then they start feeling like second-class citizens, with no rights, just a toy to spice up someone's marriage.

Are you talking of people who 'want' to be unicorns, or people who just find themselves in the unicorn position? Because, as the latter, that was not my experience at all, and no one could ever accuse me of suffering with self-esteem problems. (Like Daria says, "I just have low esteem for everyone else.") So no, not me, and I will really be hacked off if anyone thinks that. I was also the only member of the triad gainfully employed when we met, btw.

However, I rarely (as in, never) see a single, poly-experienced bisexual woman offer themselves up as a 'unicorn.' I have only seen such ads from women who have never been in a poly relationship. Whether they have self esteem or money issues though, I cannot say.

To the OP, I know it sounds like it will be a very bonding experience. But remember, what you have with your wife now, is the uniqueness of that bond. You can't just expand it to include another person. My triad did not start from unicorn hunting. We read everything, we wrote everything, we educated ourselves very well. But at the end of the day, keeping everyone included, and insisting on being intimate and dating together all the time will end up seeming tyrannical.

No single bisexual woman who has been a third in a closed, live-in, poly-fi situation offers themselves up to do it a second time, whereas couples often come back after failed triads looking for another 'third.' This should give you an indication on where the power lies with this configuration and who tends to suffer the ill effects after the relationships go south.

As for me, I would rather have my toenails pulled out with a pair of rusty pliers than ever, ever do that again. It was all sorts of crazy, even with the very best intentions. But no, I can't think of a worse thing to be than a unicorn.

My opinion would be to swing. As others have said, there are women who love a threesome who might want a relationship with you both. At least it would be more natural. But otherwise, just wait and see if someone does approach you whilst just enjoying each other and being happy in monogamy. For most people (like 95%) it will never happen. As long as you accept that and are still very happy, than it really doesn't matter, you'll have all the love you'll ever need.

Good luck,
Natja

 

[Natja]

Just because TV has romanticized poly recently doesn't mean it is so easy in real life.

I hear from "Poly in the news" that "Polyamory: Married and Dating" is to be repeated, preceding the new series.

Wait for the flood of couples all wanting their hawt blond stripper unicorns.

I hate that frickin' show.

 

[Root]

Neither. Dirtcustard thinks there are a bunch of profiles on here that are owned by Franklin Veaux. It isn't about YOU at all. If you stick around, you will notice the pattern.

Being a stupid newbie, this is one of the last guesses I would've made as to why I was being accused of being a sock. But fine, ruin my delusions of grandeur.

To my brain, the "We're looking for..." mentality can give off a "desperate" vibe, regardless of whether it's mono or poly. "I'm looking for a GF - are you her?" is just as bad as "We're looking for a GF - are you her?"

I agree with BG's initial post in that, if you find someone you want to date, cool... talk to them. Have them meet your wife. See if there's a spark. Let it happen organically.

You're excited because this is new, and it's a whole new world open to you, but looking BECAUSE you're poly really makes about as much sense as looking BECAUSE you're mono and available. People do it all the time, but it's best to find what's in front of you and enjoy the ride.

I get your first point. Yeah, that seems pretty creeper-y in retrospect, when you put it that way.

As for having things happen organically, yeah, especially since this seems to be a pretty popular point. I feel silly, but I guess it's easy to lose perspective when you're new to something. Getting hit with the same point enough helps, so thanks to everyone who made it. Was the kind of thing I was hoping to have knocked into me.

And you're definitely right on the last point. I enjoy the high of it, but unfortunately there are no brakes when you want to be a little more sensible for a few minutes. Guess I need to be more aware of it.

Thank you!

It's like realizing you're gay or bi and being all, "I just HAVE to find a same-sex partner right NAO! Where are all the gay people? Oh, you're gay? Wanna have a relationship?"

This was also a meaningful analogy. And I did appreciate some of your other post, even if I didn't make that clear.

There are so many newbies lately (not the OP, but others, maybe one reported BG's post?), wanting every post from helpful members to be couched in the sweetest candy coating. And to oh-so gradually initiate them into how to healthfully and happily negotiate this or that poly outcome. Some people here prefer to speak directly. We're all busy people; some of us don't have time to make every post sound like it's shooting out of the ass of your favorite fairy godmother along with fluffy kittens and rainbows.

And yet, those same people who at first object to the directness are often grateful for it a few days later, after thinking on it a spell.

I reported BG's post at least a thousand times. I'm waiting to get banned for report spam, personally. More seriously, I'll try to keep that in the future when I'm responding. I think there might've been miscommunication, since I only expect fluffy kittens and rainbows.

Anyway, OP, hi.

Try to take dirtclustit with a grain of salt. He has a conspiracy theory that most people here who speak against unicorn hunters are socks of the writer Franklin Veaux.

Seems legit.

Personally, I am not a sock. I am experienced in poly, and my ex h and I started out in 1999 as dreaded unicorn hunters ourselves. It went spectacularly wrong. She loved him, not me; they were in total NRE; they called themselves soulmates; I went on antidepressants for a year; I used the dreaded veto; he and she remained friends; he and I did a year of weekly couples counseling with an alternative-friendly therapist; he did a year of individual counseling; I did 3 years. Then 7 more years of exhausting talks between us passed by.

Finally we broke up after 30 years together, not just because of poly, but he and the woman in question started living together 6 months after he and I separated.

Needless to say, once I became single, the last thing I wanted was to ever be a unicorn hunter, or a unicorn, again.

Ouch. I was hoping to hear about bad experiences, and this gives a lot of perspective, so thank you for rehashing that. Makes more of an impact to hear of actual events, as opposed to what might happen, I guess. But, again, thanks.

Unicorn hunting is DANGEROUS.

Unicorns are often women with low self esteem and not much financial security, who want a Mommy and a Daddy to take care of them. Then they start feeling like second class citizens, with no rights, just a toy to spice up someone's marriage.

We kind of expected it to be somewhat risky. I guess this is another one of those things that should be obvious, and just isn't when you have no experience and don't think hard enough, since I'll readily admit I wasn't thinking about the most common people you'd run into. Makes sense in hindsight.

I'm starting to understand this a lot better, so thanks for taking the time. Getting more of an idea why people warn about it, etc. and how it could be a really bad idea if done stupidly. Also getting why the whole "get into it organically" thing is pretty stellar advice.

Apparently you are another couple looking to be patted on the head and told what they want to hear.

I'm insulted you think a pat on the head is sufficient. That, and candy, at the bare minimum.

Good luck in your search. My advice is this... Relationships are organic things that you can not mold into the shape you want. People are not things you share like toys. If you are looking to spice up your marriage then go shopping at the local adult store. Just because TV has romanticized poly recently doesn't mean it is so easy in real life.

I'll sound like a broken record, but I think I'm appreciating these points more and realizing what will need to change if this is going to be viable. At the risk of being defensive, neither of us were angling for a human sex toy at the time I posted. I'll admit both of us were that stupid at first, realized eventually that it was really stupid and inconsiderate. I think it was realizing that I was really that dumb that got me reading more to begin with, ditto for my wife. Anyway, I'm rambling; I do appreciate it, thank you.

 

[Dagferi]

Thank you for taking advice with grace.

We are not saying not to explore poly. Just that is is a road best traveled at each individual persons seperate pace and path.

 

[Root]

Are you talking of people who 'want' to be Unicorns or people who just find themselves in the Unicorn position, because as the latter that was not my experience at all and no one could ever accuse me of suffering with self esteem problems (like Daria says "I just have low esteem for everyone else"). So no, not me and I will really be hacked off if anyone thinks that (I was also, the only member of the triad gainfully employed when we met btw).

I assume the former was implied?

However, I rarely (as in, never) see a single, poly experienced bisexual woman offer themselves up as a 'Unicorn' though. I have only seen such ads from women who have never been in a Poly relationship, whether they have self esteem or money issues though, I cannot say.

Broken record, again, but I'm seeing why.

To the OP, I know it sounds like it will be a very bonding experience but remember, what you have with your wife now, is the uniqueness of that bond. You can't just expand it to include another person. My triad did not start from Unicorn Hunting, we read everything, we wrote everything and we educated ourselves very well but at the end of the day, keeping everyone included and insisting on being intimate and dating together all the time, it will end up seeming tyrannical.

I'm not sure. I'll say that the entire experience of admitting to this and seeing what would entail was very healthy for our relationship. Talking about some of what was posted, including things like this, will probably be really helpful as well; so again, thanks to everyone.

No single bisexual woman who has been a third in a closed, live in Poly-fi situation offers themselves up to do it a second time, whereas couples often come back after failed triads looking for another 'third') This should give you an indication on where the power lays with this configuration and who tends to suffer the ill effects after the relationships go south.

I think there was/is an honest hope that our efforts could result in a somewhat genuinely egalitarian situation. The purpose of the post was to partially explore that. I'm not sure. I think I'm aware that like anyone else, I like to think better of myself when it comes to such matters than I'm truly capable of.

As for me, I would rather have my toenails, pulled out with a pair of rusty pliers than ever, ever do that again.....It was all sorts of crazy, even with the very best intentions but no, I can't think of a worse thing to be than a Unicorn.

Sorry. Again, this puts into context why it's so distasteful, so it does help.

My opinion would be to swing, as others have said, there are women who love a threesome who might want a relationship with you both, at least it would be more natural, but otherwise, just wait and see if someone does approach you whilst just enjoying each other and being happy in monogamy, for most people (like 95%) it will never happen, as long as you accept that and are still very happy, than it really doesn't matter, you'll have all the love you'll ever need.

Good luck
Natja

No matter what I do appreciate the need to pick a more natural avenue to pursue this, if at all. The suggestion is nice, though. Thanks for the info and advice.

I hear from Poly in the news that Polyamory: Married and Dating is to be repeated proceeding the new series...

Wait for the flood of couples all wanting their hawt blond stripper Unicorns....

I hate that frickin show..........

Another reason I haven't watched television in two years. I also wear a tinfoil hat and occasionally bathe in Purell. Though I guess I can understand why I'm even more annoying if you guys are getting an influx due to that.

 

[franchescasc]

Just remember....

My wife and I are very similar. I think we both hoped that it would help make things less completely unrealistic and more mostly unrealistic. Anyway, we'll be talking more later about the issue of trying to do dating "together." I think we understand that it's not as reasonable as we might like; plenty of people have said it, but we're not entirely sure how to handle that. Part of the issue is that my wife says she's uncomfortable taking a relationship beyond a certain point without my involvement; maybe she could say more about that since I'm not psychic (hint, hint). The other issue is honesty about that and our intentions from the beginning. And finally a plain desire for mutual involvement, which I'm pretty sure I'm rambled about.

The biggest thing I've learned through all of this is to pinpoint the source of discomfort and jealousy. Have your wife ask herself WHY she's uncomfortable to be in a relationship past a certain point without your involvement. There's always a root to discomfort and jealousy. The biggest gift of polyamory for me has been digging deep to pinpoint these within myself and work on them.

For example, I was uncomfortable with FJ & MD spending time alone together. For me, it was because I was scared MD would not be interested in me any more. I was scared they would develop a strong bond, and she wouldn't feel the same for me. Honestly, I still struggle with this. I have been able to ask for reassurances from her, and she has given them to me. But ultimately, I am only responsible for my own happiness and reactions.

Anyway, I'm starting to ramble, but you get the idea. Discomfort has a reason. Instead of eliminating what is making you uncomfortable, figure out the WHY and deal with THAT. It works better than having someone change their behavior to suit you.

This is a good article: http://www.xeromag.com/fvpolyrefrigerator.html

 

[Natja]

I think there was/is an honest hope that our efforts could result in a somewhat genuinely egalitarian situation. The purpose of the post was to partially explore that. I'm not sure. I think I'm aware that like anyone else, I like to think better of myself when it comes to such matters than I'm truly capable of.

Oh I wish I could explain to you how very, very egalitarian we were. Genuinely. But as I said, with the greatest amount of education, good will, communication et al. It still can develop into a hellish world of helldom house in hell land.

Three heads will never function the same as two. It just won't.

 

[opalescent]

Danger, Will Robinson, Danger!

Both of us like our relationship as it is. It's possible to spend a lot of time around another person without them stealing your soul. I'm trying to be lighthearted, but I really do just enjoy being in very active and close relationships.

First, Root, I like how you handled yourself. (Tinfoil hats are so useful! I put one on my dog just in case. ) Actually listening to advice, especially when delivered a bit harshly or snarkily, is not easy to do. Good for you. I also appreciate that you and your wife are trying to avoid the pitfalls of seeking a triad. That is also a fine thing. It would be lovely if more people did that!

I suggest searching here and elsewhere on the web for 'couple privilege'. A caveat-- if you are in a couple, and so presumably have couple privilege, this does not make you a bad person. It just means you have the responsibility to think through how having that privilege affects how you think and act, both as individuals and as a couple. There is much discussion about couple privilege here, and several poly-focused blogs have written about it.

Also read through, when you can, and as much as you can, the fifty zillion posts here on unicorns, triads, etc. It's a lot to go through, but reading it will provide you with a sense of what typically goes horribly, horribly wrong with a couple (usually MF, with the man being straight and the woman being bi) seeking a bisexual woman to be with both of them. And you will get a sense of what happens when things go well, as many people have already mentioned, that triads that happen organically seem to work better in the long term.

I am, technically, a unicorn. I date men and women and was single until recently. I am bi/pansexual. I have not had any bad experiences with couples. However, I personally dislike dating couples. One big reason is that I suck at multi-tasking. I find it mentally and emotionally difficult to split (or double?) my focus. This is less of an issue when interacting one-on-one. However, the idea of interactions between all three of us, most of the time, just makes me tired. (I am also an introvert.)

There is also the reality that I am very, very rarely attracted to both members of a couple. It just doesn't happen that often. Even if I like and enjoy both people, I am usually sexually interested just in one. My current FWB is married. I think the world of his wife - she is full of awesome - but there is zippo sexual chemistry between us. Fortunately, while they like to play together, it is not a requirement. It is my impression that being sexually attracted, mostly or entirely, just to one 'half' of a couple is really common.

Finally, I quoted the bit above to highlight a concern. It is great that you and your wife are content and happy with each other. It is also great that you are coming to polyamory out of a place of strength, connection, and joy, instead of what polyamorous folks call the 'relationship broken, add more people!' fallacy.

This is something that most people don't understand when moving into ethical non-monogamy and/or poly. Your relationship will change. It will change in ways you and your spouse/partner never anticipated. You cannot expect it to remain the same, as it is now. There is no way for you to avoid change and be ethically poly. (I think this is where the stereotypcial 'unicorn hunters' often get themselves into trouble.) Your relationship will change in ways that are utterly unpredictable. You will be surprised and stunned at the twists and turns your life will take. Now, this might not be bad. You could find that your relationship with each other is even stronger and more joyful as a polyamorous than a monogamous couple. The impact could possibly be more neutral. Or your marriage might crack entirely apart.

If you want to keep your relationship at the place where it is now, don't take the polyamory route.

If you and your wife decide to take the plunge, just know that the effects and consequences are unpredictable. The rewards might be great. I hope so. But it is not possible to know the outcome before starting this experiment. Of course, that's true of life in general. But poly seems to magnify changes in relationships, kind of like how hothouses grow bigger plants faster.

 

[BoringGuy]

Three heads will never function the same as two. It just won't.

I just got reminded of this "proverb":

"To really be safe, always carry a bomb on the airplane. The chances of there being one bomb are pretty small, but the chances of two bombs are minuscule. So, by carrying a bomb on the plane with you, the odds of being blown up or taken hostage are astronomically reduced."

It's like a corollary or something when applied to relationships:

"The chances of finding a partner who is compatible with ONE of you is pretty small; but the chances of finding a partner who is compatible with BOTH of you is almost minuscule. So, by carrying the expectation that this will be an "equal triad", the odds of having that actually HAPPEN are astronomically reduced."

I hope you liked that broken-record, too.

 

[IndieSolo]

First of all, you say you desire a closed triad. Do you expect that the bisexual woman you target for your triad will have to be exclusive with you from the start? This is always one of the main sticking points for me with unicorn hunters. In any mono dating situation, exclusivity is not expected from the get-go. There always a period of going out together and getting to know one another before saying, "let's be exclusive." And many relationships end without ever becoming exclusive. Agreeing to exclusivity is almost always a BIG STEP to take in any relationship.

What if you meet someone who is pretty fucking fantastic and open to the idea of being with both you and your wife, but she is also currently dating other people, testing the waters herself, and doesn't want to be exclusive right away?
Maybe she even wants to wait six months or more before making an exclusive commitment to anyone?
Or what if you meet someone who hits it off with both of you really well, but is also married? Do you reject that possibility?
Do you only want someone who will eventually move in with you, fuck both of you, and share in the housekeeping?
Does there has to be committed exclusive partnership with both of you, and the goal of "forever," before you will consider dating anyone?

Also, I have learned that different people have different definitions of what "dating" actually is, and what they want to get out of it. Are you and your wife clear and in agreement about your definitions, and not just on "dating," but also on the words relationship, romance, love, commitment, etc.?

Both of us like our relationship as it is.

Well, that's nice, but a word of caution: don't get too attached to the idea that your relationship with your wife will stay the way it is, if either or both of you become involved with someone else! It will change dramatically! This is another ridiculous fantasy many unicorn hunters like to entertain, that the relationship of the existing couple will not change even when they've "added in" someone else. Think about it for a minute. How could the dynamics between you two not change? It's not like adding a handbag to an outfit. There would be another human being, with their own personality, baggage, desires, wants, needs, and quirks, intimately involved with each of you, and both of you. NOTHING will ever be the same!

And since you do like your relationship the way it is, why change it up and seek an additional partner?

Part of the issue is that my wife says she's uncomfortable taking a relationship beyond a certain point without my involvement.

This is a very telling piece of information that really makes a statement. You've said that wanting a close relationship of three is "how you roll," but this reveals a deeper motivation on your part-- protecting your wife. Would you ease up on your stance that that is "how you roll" if she were quite comfortable with the idea of being involved separately with someone?

Why is she uncomfortable? Is it about feeling disloyal, for example? You two are really not ready for polyamory, or perhaps any kind of non-monogamy, if one of you cannot feel comfortable engaging with another person on a romantic or intimate level without the other. This is the most important issue I would explore in your discussions (or therapy) if I were you. Frankly, it isn't good enough to say, "She isn't comfortable, so we're going to work around her discomfort." The goal should be to become more self-aware and drill down to discover the insecurities and fears underneath the discomfort. This doesn't have to mean that outwardly what you shoot for would look much different, but it is better to have an understanding of what makes her so uncomfortable with that.

Listen, some people take a year or more of investigating polyamory, examining their belief systems, and confronting fears before they ever embark on opening up their relationship. Taking your time, and having a third party listen and mediate (as in therapy) is always a good idea. The best thing to do is go slowly and invest in knowing yourselves better (your inner fears, thought patterns, emotional stability, hopes, dreams, secrets), before you even consider getting involved with an additional person or persons.

If the only reading you've done on this so far has been online resources, I would also recommend books to you. Opening Up by Tristan Taormino is very good. There is a thread here of book recommendations if you do a search.

[And by the way, let's everyone please remember and get it through your heads that "unicorn hunters" is a phrase that means a couple is looking for something mythical that doesn't exist. So, just because a bi woman is, or has been, in a triad doesn't mean she is a unicorn. To call her that doesn't make sense. If she exists, she isn't a unicorn! It isn't a triad, per se, that is mythical. The mythical creature is used to describe the unrealistic fantasies of the unicorn-hunting couple, not the relationship configuration, nor the actual woman herself.]

 

[BoringGuy]

[AND by the way, let's everyone please remember and get it through your heads that "unicorn hunters" is a phrase that means a couple is looking for something mythical that doesn't exist. So, just because a bi woman is, or has been, in a triad doesn't mean she is a unicorn - to call her that doesn't make sense. If she exists, she isn't a unicorn! It isn't a triad, per se, that is mythical. The mythical creature is used to describe the unrealistic fantasies of the unicorn-hunting couple, not the actual woman herself.]

I'm quoting this. Nobody will read it though. People will still think "unicorn " is a term of endearment and that "unicorn hunters" are misunderstood victims of victim-blaming.

 

[Root]

The biggest thing I've learned through all of this is to pinpoint the source of discomfort and jealousy. Have your wife ask herself WHY she's uncomfortable to be in a relationship past a certain point without your involvement. There's always a root to discomfort and jealousy. The biggest gift of polyamory for me has been digging deep to pinpoint these within myself and work on them. For example, I was uncomfortable with FJ & MD spending time alone together. For me, it was because I was scared MD would not be interested in me any more. I was scared they would develop a strong bond, and she wouldn't feel the same for me. Honestly, I still struggle with this. I have been able to ask for reassurances from her, and she has given them to me. But ultimately, I am only responsible for my own happiness and reactions. Discomfort has a reason. Instead of eliminating what is making you uncomfortable, figure out the WHY and deal with THAT. It works better than having someone change their behavior to suit you.

This is a good article: http://www.xeromag.com/fvpolyrefrigerator.html

Yeah, we've got plenty to sit down and talk about when she's less busy. This would admittedly be one of those things. I will probably go over the article at the same time. Thanks!

My only real advice for OP is:

1. Feel really confident that you can be honest and communicative with your partner before diving into this.
2. Just state what to want to potential partners up front. Get used to rejection, as this style of relationship isn't palatable to everyone.
3. It helps to acknowledge the pressure being put on any unicorn you court, but still stick firm to what you want
4. It really helps that you can spell. Most of the unicorn hunting messages I get on okcupid are unintelligible, so you're already ahead of the game.
5. You might want to get your training wheels at a swingers party. Those things are usually full of willing unicorns, some open to the idea of polyamory.
6. A triad I knew just up and started bringing their third to family functions and acted like it was normal. They didn't come out though. Shrug. If her family is super liberal, I would honestly just give them a chance. Poly is coming into the media a lot more now, becoming normalized, and it gets a lot of positive coverage.
7. For god's sake, don't use Craigslist.

I think I forgot to say thanks for this list. (I'm perfectly willing to use Craigslist if you pay me a significant amount beforehand.) But, seriously, I do appreciate the suggestions.

Oh I wish I could explain to you how very, very egalitarian we were. Genuinely. But as I said, with the greatest amount of education, good will, communication et al. It still can develop into a hellish world of helldom house in hell land.

Three heads will never function the same as two. It just won't.

Yeah. Unfortunately, this seems one of those things that threatens to be unavoidable. I'm not sure. The risk doesn't faze me as much as it likely should. It's that kind of ignorance you can only enjoy with a lack of experience. But knowing it exists is worth something.

I just got reminded of this "proverb":

"To really be safe, always carry a bomb on the airplane. The chances of there being one bomb are pretty small, but the chances of two bombs are minuscule. So, by carrying a bomb on the plane with you, the odds of being blown up or taken hostage are astronomically reduced."

It's like a corollary or something when applied to relationships:

"The chances of finding a partner who is compatible with ONE of you is pretty small; but the chances of finding a partner who is compatible with BOTH of you is almost minuscule. So, by carrying the expectation that this will be an "equal triad", the odds of having that actually HAPPEN are astronomically reduced."

I hope you liked that broken-record, too.

I'll take your advice only if I can tell the TSA you told me to do it.

 

[Dagferi]

I agree with others. If you do not want your relationship to change do not go any further.

Trust me, my whole life has been turned upside down.