Vee – with three new to poly people – relationship, do we stand a chance?

[alex1656]

Hi everyone,

Beginning of this year, I fell in love with someone that already was in a relationship with somebody else. She and her boyfriend have been together now for about 6 years. But as time went by, things got serious between her and me and she confessed that she loved both of us. She didn't want to choose between her boyfriend and me and her wish was to make it work with the three of us together. This was all new for us and we had never experienced any poly relationships before.

For her boyfriend, this was extremely hard. The dynamics of their relationship completely changed. He had to accept that his girlfriend just added me into the mix. He had to share her, with me. Although he did not say he didn't agree with it, he did need time to process it all. We gave that to him in the beginning, to come to terms with the situation. We held off physical contact for a couple of months until we couldn't take it anymore. We felt that we gave him enough time to adjust, but at some point, we choose for ourselves.

For me, all of this was new. But I always knew from the beginning that she had a boyfriend. So nothing changed when things got serious. We enjoyed our time together, but because she does not live with me, dividing her time has always been our main problem. We live very close to each other, but she cannot come over whenever she feels like it. She has to okay it with her boyfriend. Me being in their apartment is also hard for him, so when we meet, it's practically always at my place.

I find it hard that I have not yet connected with him this past year. We went for a walk last month in an attempt to start working on that. I initiated it, but it's still all too hard for him to see me and talk to me, let alone see me with her. At the same time, I'm starting to feel more and more like I'm the secondary in this relationship, even though we agreed that we were going to do this as equals. But this situation is not equal. I don't live with my girlfriend, she and her boyfriend do. They went on a little camping trip, we never went on something similar. She always goes back home at the end of the day and spending the night at my place has happened maybe three times in total. I also have never met any of her friends or family.

When I talk to her about how I feel about these things, she tells me that if she gives me more, there will be more pressure on her relationship with her boyfriend, afraid she'll lose him. She cannot find a good balance. But always putting me and her boyfriend first, has been taking a very big toll on her lately. She has currently no energy to keep doing this the way we have been. She needs time for herself. We talked about how to resolve this so that she can recharge and enjoy both our relationships.

One possibility that came up was to take a break from our relationship. See each other less. I feel that she is slipping away from me and being in this unequal secondary position makes it so unfair. She and I could make it work in an equal poly relationship with good communication, he is the one that hasn't come to terms with the situation. But I also can't blame him, as he never asked for this situation in the first place.

Am I being petty by making this his problem? Is this still fixable or do I need to accept that our relationship has probably come to an end?

 

[dingedheart]

Hi and welcome to the forum
.
im trying to see how taking a break from your relationship is going to help them or specifically him. To me it sounds like they maybe need a break or some detangling both physically and emotionally. Did they do any work in that regard upon opening up there relationship ??

I don’t think it is petty because from where I sit it looks like it is his problem. Did he ever say directly to anyone why he agreed to being downsized and excepting less of her time and attention. Does he NOT want to exercise his right to date additional people ?? Do think dating would be difficult for him ...physically or emotionally ? Do you think she feels sorry for him in that regard with the obvious imbalance?

 

[Evie]

He's not your problem, she is.
She's clearly trying to appease him by renegging of your agreement to work towards equality, particularly around time. But more than their relationship, she's hiding you from everyone else in her life. Whilst some people are happy to be known as "a friend" if poly would totally blow up their love's work or family relationships, it seems like she isn't even ready for that. She offered something she can't deliver: equality. You're going to need to have a very clear discussion with her about this gulf between her ideals/intentions, and her current reality/actions. And I suspect that she won't be too keen to rock the boat she's established, so you might have to admit to yourself that she's not ready for poly. And while that might be because her longer term bf isn't ready for it, either, there's no point blaming him.

Also, many metamours don't have their own friendship, you don't need to try and push him into that.

Good luck, I hope she can be more assertive in developing the equality you want, or honest in admitting it's not doable.

 

[alex1656]

To me it sounds like they maybe need a break or some detangling both physically and emotionally. Did they do any work in that regard upon opening up there relationship ??

I think they tried, but those would be minimal efforts as far as I can see. He has been particularly focused on bringing balance back for himself. Started finding other poly people online to meet up with. Found one person that he sees occasionally and from what I know, she is not someone he's falling for but more a nice distraction from time to time. We often time date nights together so that it feels more balanced out for him.

Does he NOT want to exercise his right to date additional people ?? Do think dating would be difficult for him ...physically or emotionally ? Do you think she feels sorry for him in that regard with the obvious imbalance?

I think deep down he's not a poly person and only wants a mono relationship. I always thought that mono was the only way for me, so I can relate that it's hard to see that change. For me, I'm not interested in dating other people, but I'm okay with my girlfriend having another partner. As long as things are balanced out. And I do indeed think that she feels sorry for him and trying to cope with it as best as she can.

He's not your problem, she is.
She's clearly trying to appease him by renegging of your agreement to work towards equality, particularly around time. But more than their relationship, she's hiding you from everyone else in her life. Whilst some people are happy to be known as "a friend" if poly would totally blow up their love's work or family relationships, it seems like she isn't even ready for that. She offered something she can't deliver: equality.

It does feel at times like she's hiding me. I always thought that these actions were to give him time and space to be more comfortable with the situation. And that is probably how it got started, but it now feels like this impasse. Where every move to make the poly relationship work, ends up putting more pressure on their relationship, and not doing 'the work' means putting on hold our relationship. I know that she knew it would be extremely ambitious from the start. And maybe she did offer me something that she can't deliver and were we all too naive to think that this could work. But I still think this is just a bump in the road, one that we should talk about with the three of us. Taking a time-out feels like the opposite of what we should be doing.

Also, many metamours don't have their own friendship, you don't need to try and push him into that.

That is something I did not consider, to be honest. It would be a shame though, as I know that we have very similar interests and probably could be friends. Also would make our girlfriend a whole lot happier.

Thank you for reading and replying to my story. Appreciate it very much

 

[GalaGirl]

I mean this kindly, ok?

Look at what you wrote.

She and I could make it work in an equal poly relationship with good communication, he is the one that hasn't come to terms with the situation. But I also can't blame him, as he never asked for this situation in the first place.

Ok. If he is in a yucky situation and doesn't have the strength to say "This is yucky! I don't want this!" because he is too far down in the goop? he cannot be responsible. He's drowning.

So who IS responsible?

If YOU can see it is yucky? Why turn a blind eye? Just gonna watch him drown? How is that kind?

You could bring things to a head and cut the crap very fast. You could tell your GF

"It has been X months. This is not working out for me like this. I'm willing to poly with you, but I'm not willing to wonky poly or be "hidden." I'm not getting time with you and I'm not happy here. He's not happy being here and he doesn't tell you no and you don't end it either. Watching another couple do that to each other is not my idea of fun. I also don't want to be a part of being that unkind to someone. Look me up if /when you get it better together."

And you bow out.

For her boyfriend, this was extremely hard. The dynamics of their relationship completely changed. He had to accept that his girlfriend just added me into the mix. He had to share her, with me. Although he did not say he didn't agree with it, he did need time to process it all. We gave that to him in the beginning, to come to terms with the situation. We held off physical contact for a couple of months until we couldn't take it anymore. We felt that we gave him enough time to adjust, but at some point, we choose for ourselves.

She doesn't get to make unilateral decisions for the couple.

And I don't hear clear consent being given here.

How exactly did you and her get together?

Was she cheating on her agreements with him?

Or did she ask him to change agreements before she took up with you?

I think deep down he's not a poly person and only wants a mono relationship. I always thought that mono was the only way for me, so I can relate that it's hard to see that change. For me, I'm not interested in dating other people, but I'm okay with my girlfriend having another partner. As long as things are balanced out. And I do indeed think that she feels sorry for him and trying to cope with it as best as she can.

If a mono relationship is what he wants, he could have said "No, thank you. I do not want to be doing poly" from the beginning when she suggested poly. But he didn't/doesn't do that.

And her? If she sees her other partner going along with things they don't really want just to avoid breaking up? Or sees them in prolonged pain? She could do the kind thing and break up with him. Because sometimes that IS the kindest thing to do. But she doesn't do that. She is not doing her best by him if she ignores him drowning.

She's also running herself ragged and tired trying to "keep the peace" which is really " keep avoiding doing the things I need to be doing."

Both of them sound kinda passive and avoidant.

And because they are busy tiptoeing around the elephant in the room on their side of the V? She's wearing herself out and your side of the V it's not really going how you would like. Because she doesn't want to do anything that would rock the boat on the other side so much BF breaks up with her. Because she was too wussy to break up with him way back at the start if she wanted poly now and he still wants mono.

Meanwhile, you DO see how from his POV this would all stink. So why aren't YOU calling for a time out to have the needed conversations so some of this stinkage can STOP?

I know that she knew it would be extremely ambitious from the start. And maybe she did offer me something that she can't deliver and were we all too naive to think that this could work. But I still think this is just a bump in the road, one that we should talk about with the three of us. Taking a time-out feels like the opposite of what we should be doing.

If you think you need to take a time out to actually have the missing conversations you three could have had from the beginning?

You could ask to talk all three. You could say something like...

"It's been X months. I wanted to check in. I am up for poly, but not wonky poly. I'm up for KTP and being friends with a meta, but not everyone is into that. I accept it but I need to know how to be here. I need clarity.

• Does everyone joyfully consent to be here? Do we even want to be doing this together?
  • If no, let's just stop.
  • If yes, what model are we trying to practice here? What are the expectations?

Because I don't want to be in something that's going nowhere or is hurting people. I would rather stop if that's happening."

And YOU be firm of purpose because the other two don't sound like they are firm of purpose.

"Willingness" and "love" are not enough to have a successful poly relationship. The people have to want to be here doing this, in earnest. And they have to have the skills or willing to learn the skills. And they have to be compatible. "Initially compatible" does not automatically translate to "deeply compatible."

I'm not sure in this situation if there even was "initially compatible."

Bottom line -- if you just get more hemming and hawing and it's basically still "I poly with underprepared wonky people?"

If she promised more than she can deliver?

You see him doing stuff he really doesn't want to be doing?

You see her running herself ragged and tired?

• Because she's wussing out and not having the conversations she needs to have with her other BF?
• Wussing out and not telling you plain "This is all I can offer you right now?"
• Wussing out and not breaking up with him if that is what needs to happen?
• Wussing up and not breaking up with you because they opened without doing enough prep work?

Take a step back to assess. What kind of dating offer is this for you? A stellar one? One that makes you excited to be here? Or are you wussing out on the needing conversations because YOU too are avoiding? Like "Well, I don't want to do anything that would make it so her and I have to break up."

If YOU are choosing to be involved with wonky people you cannot be surprised things are wonky around here.

In your shoes? I would make a choice.

• Lean in and try to straighten it up so there is no more wonky here.
• Or bow out of it so you don't have to be dealing in wonky any more. They can wonky without you.

It's not a fence sitter.

Am I being petty by making this his problem? Is this still fixable or do I need to accept that our relationship has probably come to an end?

If you want to try to fix this? Try then!

If you don't want to deal in this any more? STOP.

Keep this WAY simpler on you even if the other two in the V are being all passive and avoidant.

YOU can choose to be assertive. YOU can make decisions for yourself about your relationships and how you choose to participate in them.

Own your stuff. And expect the other people to own their stuff.

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hello alex1656,

Perhaps what needs to happen here is, that the three of you need to sit down together and have a marathon talk. Or a series of talks, maybe one a week, maybe one hour per talk. And each of you could write down or print up what you want to talk about, so that you have something in your hand to refer to while you're talking. Make it fair, give each of you twenty minutes of uninterrupted time during your talking together. Maybe go in five-minute segments. You get five minutes, then she gets five minutes, then he gets five minutes. Rinse and repeat, for one hour (that's four fifteen-minute cycles). I'm just throwing numbers into the air, the three of you can decide what you would prefer. Don't wear yourselves out, but don't put off the talking indefinitely. You all need a chance to air your thoughts and feelings.

Like you, I am in an MFM V, and things were really rough during our first year or three together. There were times when I thought we'd split up. But here it is, almost fifteen years later, and here we are, going strong, living in the same house together. The reason I say all this is so that you can know that it can work, if you hang in there. As the saying goes, "First year forming, second year storming, third year norming." You are just at the end of your first year as a V. It's going to take longer than that to make it work. You have to be willing to keep trying, even though it's hard, you have to be willing to have faith that it will be worth it in the end. And I can't even guarantee that things will work out, but is it worth at least trying, that's what I'm getting at. I hope the three of you can work things out.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[alex1656]

Let me start by saying that I really appreciated your reply @GalaGirl. I've read it maybe 10 times now, feeling a different emotion each time. From anger and sadness to relief and shame. Your words hit hard and were probably exactly what I needed to hear. I'll try to reply to some parts, mainly to process it all for myself.

Ok. If he is in a yucky situation and doesn't have the strength to say "This is yucky! I don't want this!" because he is too far down in the goop? he cannot be responsible. He's drowning.

So who IS responsible?

If YOU can see it is yucky? Why turn a blind eye? Just gonna watch him drown? How is that kind?

You are so right, because yes he is drowning. The more I think about his situation, the more ashamed I feel how we treated him. I indeed turned a blind eye. Although it was not my responsibility to make their relationship poly-proof, I put too much faith in them to fix it. He is probably never going to say: "I don't want this!". She had to know that but chose for him to go ahead with the relationship with me.

She doesn't get to make unilateral decisions for the couple.

And I don't hear clear consent being given here.

How exactly did you and her get together?

Was she cheating on her agreements with him?

Or did she ask him to change agreements before she took up with you?

We are co-workers and naturally grew closer. Seeing each other every day at work moved to daily texting and after-work dinners. I asked her always if her boyfriend knew what she was doing and with who. She told me that he knew what was up and I have no reason to doubt her on that. When the moment came to tell him that I was not a random co-worker anymore and things got serious, she had great trouble finding the right moment. I don't know how it went down, but it was probably not pretty. I don't feel that she violated any pre-set agreements with him, or would call it cheating what we did. Like I said previously, real physical contact only came much later. But you are right that I never got the indication that he wholeheartedly agreed to it. I was too busy enjoying my new relationship with her.

Meanwhile, you DO see how from his POV this would all stink. So why aren't YOU calling for a time out to have the needed conversations so some of this stinkage can STOP?

I have requested multiple times over the year to have this conversation. And he was never ready for it and still isn't. I tried to respect that and agreed to move it farther back into the future. And now we are here today. Me, not knowing what to do and rather ask other people on a forum to give me advice than talking with them.

Take a step back to assess. What kind of dating offer is this for you? A stellar one? One that makes you excited to be here? Or are you wussing out on the needing conversations because YOU too are avoiding? Like "Well, I don't want to do anything that would make it so her and I have to break up."

Yup, 100% owning up to be a wuss. I am afraid, that this will end our relationship or at least make it really difficult. My tactic has been to trust that they are working toward the same goal as I have in my head. And that time was the key thing they needed. But I feel like I've already spent so much time waiting and it hasn't yielded the results I hoped for.

I want to thank you all for your kind words and advice. This has been very insightful mainly because I have no friends or family to turn to that have poly experience. But if I try to read between the lines of @GalaGirl's post, I can't help it feel that my story maybe brings a kind of anger to you more experienced poly people. Like we are a bunch of inexperienced non prepared persons that think they can tackle poly within a year without doing the work. And we probably deserve that.

So what to do now. Well, I feel strengthened by the fact that you all think that my desire to request the much-needed conversation with the three of us is the only logical next step if I want to fix this. The hard truth of ending it until they fix their situation is something that I prepared myself before posting my story. And that is also a very plausible option. You have given me clarity on my options, and I'm very grateful for that.

But at the moment, my girlfriend is not mentally ready to have this conversation. She's too exhausted from this past year and covid lock-down in our country and the upcoming holidays all make it too hard for her to deal with this now. So I'm going to give her space to figure things out. She knows I want to talk with the three of us, so I'm not going to press her more. I know that sounds like me avoiding it, but the talk is really not going to happen this year.

Love and best wishes to you all
And maybe I'll update this topic in the future on how it went.

 

[GalaGirl]

Let me start by saying that I really appreciated your reply @GalaGirl. I've read it maybe 10 times now, feeling a different emotion each time. From anger and sadness to relief and shame. Your words hit hard and were probably exactly what I needed to hear.

Glad you took it in spirit intended. You sound like a nice person who cares about honesty and integrity and doing the right thing. I wasn't trying to guilt or shame you but you sounded like you were sliding into the goop somewhat yourself. And could maybe use a reminder to answer to your higher values rather than just sort of "keep letting things slide" because you've been answering to fearfulness.

Sometimes doing the right thing is not fun or easy. But one could try to do it anyway. This is supposed to be ethical non-monogamy right?

I have requested multiple times over the year to have this conversation. And he was never ready for it and still isn't. I tried to respect that and agreed to move it farther back into the future. And now we are here today. Me, not knowing what to do and rather ask other people on a forum to give me advice than talking with them.

To me? I would just call that a "working no" then. Because it sure isn't a yes! And I don't like being left in limbo forever.

In your shoes I would them both something like...

"I have asked to talk several times in the past year. It has not happened.

I don't want to be involved in something that has no clarity about what it is, where it is going, or might actually be hurting people. That's not healthy for me or healthy for others. So I am bowing out because I don't want to continue in murky.

If you do want to talk to unmurk and try again on better footing and with more clarity, please contact me. If I don't hear from you in a month I will assume this is just not meant to be. Thank you. I have enjoyed knowing you both. "

And then wait. It sucks, but you put the responsibility for cleaning up their relationship business on that side of the V back on them. And you don't have to be waiting forever any more to get answers. If they want to talk, they will make the appointment to talk. If they are doing more avoidy-dance? You are on the clock for a month and you will know the answer is "more of same that I don't like" and you can call it quits knowing you tried.

It's limited outcomes.

• That GF and her BF got it better together. You can try again with them. The murk is cleared or clearing.
• Or they broke up.
  • She not improved. You skip getting re-involved with her and stay out of the murk.
  • She promises to improve and lists steps she's taking. You can try again to poly with her and new potential poly people. The murk is cleared or clearing.
• Or they are still together in the murky mess. And you are out of the murk. It gets better for YOU at least.

All are "wins" for you. Some bigger than others, but all "wins."

No more of this turning a blind eye thing or stuff dragging out and you not getting what you need in your relationship. Because right now, you are not happy with that.

I am afraid, that this will end our relationship or at least make it really difficult. My tactic has been to trust that they are working toward the same goal as I have in my head. And that time was the key thing they needed. But I feel like I've already spent so much time waiting and it hasn't yielded the results I hoped for.

Because you didn't stop to actually ask "Are we all on the same page?" You just trusted/assumed you were all on the same page. Next time slow your roll a bit and actually talk to the people you are taking up with.

Well, I feel strengthened by the fact that you all think that my desire to request the much-needed conversation with the three of us is the only logical next step if I want to fix this. The hard truth of ending it until they fix their situation is something that I prepared myself before posting my story. And that is also a very plausible option. You have given me clarity on my options, and I'm very grateful for that.

Glad to know you are firmer in your resolve to try to fix this by having the needed conversations.

But if I try to read between the lines of @GalaGirl's post, I can't help it feel that my story maybe brings a kind of anger to you more experienced poly people. Like we are a bunch of inexperienced non prepared persons that think they can tackle poly within a year without doing the work. And we probably deserve that.

No anger from me.

I wonder why you beat up on yourself like that so much? It's ok to be a newbie and it's ok to make mistakes. That's how people sometimes learn what is and what is not for them.

But when you do see something? And you choose to turn a blind eye rather than address it? That's not kind behavior. "Sweeping stuff under the rug" is not a healthy way of relating.

But at the moment, my girlfriend is not mentally ready to have this conversation. She's too exhausted from this past year and covid lock-down in our country and the upcoming holidays all make it too hard for her to deal with this now. So I'm going to give her space to figure things out. She knows I want to talk with the three of us, so I'm not going to press her more. I know that sounds like me avoiding it, but the talk is really not going to happen this year.

Look... You waited this long already. Waiting a few more weeks til after New Year's so the holiday stress over, 2020 is done, and you move into 2021 and try to start fresh? Not a big deal. Maybe you want to take the time to rest too. It's been a lot.

Just don't spend a whole other year or two years or three years just putting off and putting off. YKWIM?

I encourage you to have the conversations you need to be having with your people.

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

No anger from me either. You are in the thick of a highly complicated situation. You can't just peel yourself free from it, because you love this woman and she loves both of you. You have to figure out a way to make it work. And it may take some more time. It probably will, though I know you're tired of waiting, and who wouldn't be, after a year? but the fact that the two of them still (after all this time) are not ready to sit down with you and have a long-overdue in-depth discussion with you, that in and of itself speaks to the time you have yet to invest into this thing. And I know that must be discouraging to hear. By no means do I think that you're "unqualified to try poly." Rather, I think we all have to start at the beginning, and that is what you are doing. We all have to go through a certain initiation process before things start to go smoothly. That is what you are doing.

There are limits to how much expertise you can amass before trying poly. There are tons of books on how to do monogamy and make it work, and there are very few books on how to do polyamory and make it work. As everyone is unique, and every relationship is unique, you pretty much have to figure things out by trial and error. Getting help, feedback, and advice from the members of this forum, is of tremendous value towards helping you get through the trial-and-error process. It is definitely not a waste of anyone's time. I hope you'll keep posting here as your situation evolves, so that we can refresh our feedback and ideas for you. I just know that it's going to be hard for awhile, there's really no getting around that part of it. And honestly, that is okay. You are doing your best and that is what matters in my opinion. You are a pioneer in a whole new way of approaching relationships.

 

[icesong]

But if I try to read between the lines of @GalaGirl's post, I can't help it feel that my story maybe brings a kind of anger to you more experienced poly people. Like we are a bunch of inexperienced non prepared persons that think they can tackle poly within a year without doing the work. And we probably deserve that.

Absolutely not anger. Wry sympathy really, because I’m not sure anyone on this board has gone straight from long term mono to poly without some hiccups in one or all relationships. I mean how else do you get from inexperienced to experienced?