What is it that I want?

A

Ambergris

New member
Hi, everyone. I hope you will help me to give a name to this craving of mine.

I tried some monogamous relationships (irrelevant :) ), then some polyamorous ones, or at least something in that area, but they left me dissatisfied. There was always some feeling of being an extra person, or having the extra person just for a short amount of time. Like,
"This is my lifelong precious partner, and this is our friend we sometimes have sex with," or
"Let's be a couple, but find ourselves a third from time to time," or
"We are together, but I also would like to have a boyfriend, if that's okay with you," or
"We are two couples who like exchanging partners and also having group sex."

What I realized I want is a "closed and equal" polyamorous relationship, a sort of a threesome, not just sex-wise, also emotion-wise and relationship-wise. Everyone loves each other and has sex with each other, including group sex, all three partners are equal, there are no primary partners or couples or love triangles within the union. And there is no sexual or romantic relationships outside the union. It's not "us and her," or "us and him," or "me and my two lovers who somehow tolerate each other," or "us and whoever happens by"-- it's "the three of us." The focus is not on a person having relationships with two other people, but on a three-way relationship.

Is that possible? Is there an official name for it?

Thanks in advance. :)
 
What you are looking for is a poly-fidelitous triad, and they do exist.

While everyone can certainly gain equality within the relationship, the chances of everyone loving each other equally are slim. Usually two bond to a greater extent, it seems.
 
Mono's name for what you want seems valid to me. And I agree, it is very difficult to obtain for the long haul. But if you are not necessarily interested in the long haul, then perhaps you will find it for a time. Usually one person feels left out, while the other two feel more connection and love for one another over time. The balance is near impossible to hold up.

Have a good look around here and you will find many who are trying to achieve what you seek.
 
I tend to agree with RP... somewhat.

Is it possible? Maybe. But I think setting it up as a goal, and not feeling satisfied otherwise, is going to lead to disappointment and disillusionment, because the dream tends to ignore human nature.

As we've spoken about frequently, all people form connections of various depths and in various fashions. There is never this idealized equality. any more than leaves on the same tree are all equal.

I always get a shiver when I hear such talk, because it harks me back somewhat to the same old model: a slightly expanded form of monogamy, only with one additional person. In such a configuration, I see the same potential for problems and conflict as I'd see in a classic two-person monogamous relationship, but maybe with one important difference. These people have looked at expanded loving and relationships, chosen it, and I have a feeling that in most cases trying to close that down is going to be difficult.

Pandora's box has already been opened. Monogamy was found lacking (in something) in order to choose this in the first place, and once discovered, that's not likely to change.
 
GroundedSpirit said:
I feel setting it up as some goal, and not feeling satisfied otherwise, is going to lead to disappointment and disillusionment, because the dream tends to ignore human nature.
As we've spoken about frequently, all people form connections of various depths and in various fashions. There is never this idealized equality, any more than leaves on the same tree are all equal.
I always get a shiver when I hear such talk because it harks me back somewhat to the same old model.
Pandora's box has already been opened. Monogamy was found lacking (something) in order to choose this in the first place, and once discovered, that's not likely to change.
Click to expand...

I think this sums up why I feel uncomfortable with the closed-triad dream, or a closed-quad dream, for that matter. It isn't expanding, but as rigid as monogamous rules. Of course, that doesn't mean that it doesn't work for some. I am sure there are some it does work for, but as you say, when the box of possibilities is open, then the prospect of closing it down after NRE has settled seems unlikely and painful.
 
Thank you for the answers.

It's not like I'm setting it up as an ultimate goal. It's just that it seems like other kinds of experience turned out to be not very satisfying.

I thought hard about why, and I realized two things:
1) I won't ever be happy as a unicorn or something like that (yes, I went and learned some terms, too), because being a secondary partner in a structured poly relationship drives me crazy. Been there, done that. It's not so much about attention, but that I feel like the gamma of the pack. Not powerful enough, not enough of a decision-maker.
2) I also feel uncomfortable when my partners form important connections with other people without me participating in them (and sometimes even without me meeting those people). I guess I'm a bit of a control freak. I'm fine with group experiences, or with having multiple relationships of my own, but the idea of my partners having an "independent" connection that has absolutely nothing to do with me... not sure I'd be able to be comfortable with that for an extended period of time.

Maybe GroundedSpirit is right about the shiver. :) Though the classic mono model also turned out to be uncomfortable and restricting. I guess I need to do more thinking.
 
Ambergris said:
Thank you for the answers.

It's not like I'm setting it up as an ultimate goal. It's just it seems that other kinds of experience turned out to be not very satisfying. I thought hard about why and I realized two things:
1) I won't ever be happy as a unicorn or something like that (yes, I went and learned some terms, too), because being a secondary partner in a structured poly relationship drives me crazy. Been there, done that. It's not so much about attention, but that I feel like the gamma of the pack, not powerful enough, not enough of a decision-maker.
2) I also feel uncomfortable when my partners form important connections with other people without me participating in them (and sometimes even without me meeting those people). I guess I'm a bit of a control freak. I'm fine with group experiences, or with having multiple relationships of my own, but the idea of my partners having an "independent" connection that has absolutely nothing to do with me... I'm not sure I'd be able to be comfortable with that for an extended period of time.
Maybe GroundedSpirit is right about the shiver, though the classic mono model also turned out to be uncomfortable and restricting.
I guess I need to do more thinking.
Click to expand...

Ambergris,

I have very similar feelings, with one probably major exception: we are not looking for a triad, but a simple vee. Basically, it's not a three-way sexual exchange. It's more along the lines of polygamy. But a lot of what you say rings true for me, as well.

There is so much value in equality amongst everyone. I never like reading about primary vs secondary. We want equality amongst members, an equal share in the voting process of life. I cannot, would not, introduce another person into my life, and expect them to share in the wholehearted vesting of emotions, if I did not give them equal rights in the relationship.

That being said, I know I am also a hypocrite, because equality should also be seen in regards to sex, and I do not think I could handle my ladies sleeping with anyone else but me, not even with each other, hence the vee, and not a triad.

Your point #2 almost sounds like you want to have what I want, a vee relationship, with you as the hinge. This part I think I share with you. But like you said, it's hard to expect that once Pandora's box is open, to be successful at closing it back up.

Like you, I need to think.

Keep posting, because I want to see where you end up. It just might give me things to think about.
 
jlpanian, have you done a search in the tags for "one-penis policy"? It's a tricky one. There are very few women that would conform to not being able to seek out other lovers while their lover has two. Actually, most people, period, would struggle with that. After all, why should you be able to and not them? What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Of course, if this is a Dominance/submission thing, then I would assume that your ladies are in it because they like to be dominated in this way. What worries me about (religious) polygamy is that the rights of women (and children) are not respected.

Anyway, there is some interesting reading here about one-penis policies. I hope you take a look.
 
I find that my partners' interests are definitely not "independent" or "having nothing to do with me." I'm totally involved, from the courtship part, and I assume I would be later on, as well. I can be a control freak too, but it's all part of the same big network, to me.
 
redpepper said:
jlpanian, have you done a search in the tags for OPP (one-penis policy)? It's a tricky one. There are very few women that would conform to not being able to seek out other lovers while their lover has two. Actually, most people would struggle with that. After all, why should you be able to, and not them? What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Of course, if this is a Dominance/submission thing, then I would assume that your ladies are in it because they like to be dominated in this way. What worries me about polygamy is that the rights of women (and children) are not respected in religious polygamy.

Anyway, there is some interesting reading on here about OPP. I hope you take a look.
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Redpepper, that's what I struggle with. My wife, for instance, as I mentioned in another post, is the one that started us down this path, and she wants nothing to do with having another lover. She loves the idea of having a best friend kind of thing. I cannot honestly speak for her, but this is what she has shared with me.

I have talked at length with her, because she is the last person I would want to hurt. And even though she is the one who started us down this path, she is also the one to pull the plug, because I see exactly what you're saying, Redpepper.

I am Christian, and actually disagree with religious polygamy, in the sense that they always seem to have their children married off VERY young. So young I'm not convinced the girls know what they are getting into. But that's another topic.

I will definitely look into OPP, because that sounds the most like what we are looking for.

BTW Redpepper, I truly appreciate your point of view, and values you share with everyone on the board. I get excited to check the boards here to see what you and the other contribute. It helps a lot to have someone to talk to, and see different points of views. Thanks.
 
Redpepper, I was looking into OPP, as you suggested. I found this blog bashing the idea as sexist, and everything wrong with poly. :)

In the comments they linked to this hilarious YouTube video:


It's basically my dream in a comedy skit about OPP, with the exception that I want a vee and not a triad, as implied in the skit.

I thought you would enjoy it.
 
Ha! awesome. I wish it were that simple. I can't imagine my men cooing over me that way. Usually I don't get a word in edgewise, when we are all together, or when they know I'm upset, I get stared down in silence. heh :)

I don't have a one-vagina policy, but it seems to have come down to that at the moment. I don't find it very respectful to request that. After all, I have more than one love, so why should the option of them having more than one not be an option? It only seems fair to me.

Mono enjoys just me, but PN would find another if he could. He's had a few chances at love, but no success. Mono likes what he has, but PN misses out on lovin'. He needs more time from me, more intimacy, more touch, more talk, more connection... I can't give him that because I have Mono and Derby in my life (etc.). I have some guilt over that, but have to trust that he is okay and the work we do to stay connected is paying off.

I struggle to be okay with the amount of time and energy I have for him... I would be really surprised if you found TWO women that would be satisfied with the everyday, day-to-day life that it comes down to in a poly dynamic, without one or both of them eventually needing more than you have time for... I would be surprised if they would be okay with your boundary of them having no other lovers until the end of time.

Still, it may be possible, and I wish you luck.
 
redpepper said:
Ha! awesome. I wish it were that simple. I can't imagine my men cooing over me that way. Usually I don't get a word in edgewise, when we are all together, or when they know I'm upset, I get stared down in silence.

I don't have a one-vagina policy, but it seems to have come down to that at the moment. I don't find it very respectful to request that. After all, I have more than one love, so why should the option of them having more than one not be an option? It only seems fair, to me.

Mono enjoys just me, but PN would find another if he could. He's had a few chances at love, but no success. Mono likes what he has, but PN misses out on lovin'. He needs more time from me, more intimacy, more touch, more talk, more connection... I can't give him that because I have Mono and Derby in my life (etc.). I have some guilt over that, but have to trust that he is okay and the work we do to stay connected is paying off.

I struggle to be okay with the amount of time and energy I have for him. I would be really surprised if you found TWO women that would be satisfied with the everyday, day-to-day life that it comes down to in a poly dynamic without one or both of them eventually needing more than you have time for. I would be surprised if they would be okay with your boundary of them having no other lovers until the end of time.
Click to expand...

RP, wow, I struggle with the EXACT thing you posted in the end. If I open Pandora's polyamory box, knowing my honest expectation that I couldn't (while being truthful to myself) be okay with them seeing anyone else, still want to open it. It's a huge risk. Even if my wife is completely content, will this new woman be? That's a tough sell, because although I come across as a OPP kind of guy, I also respect women, and wouldn't want to oppress someone else to fit into "my" mold.

The problem, as you have identified, is that one big "IF". I cannot say if/when the time comes to take action, I would even choose to do so. Let alone the fact that I could jeopardize my great relationship with my wife, but also the unknown feelings and relationship with a new woman.

If you have the answer, please share! I am all ears.
 
Haha! I only wish it was as simple as strapping on the seatbelt and letting the woman come! :) No pun intended.

The next hurdle is, let's say we're ready, we still need to find the right woman. And that's like finding the ark of the covenant! It probably doesn't exist. I knew my wife was one of a kind, and it's probably quite literally one of a kind in regards to her outlook on this!

I appreciate your luck, and I accept it and put it in my pocket, next to my four leaf clover, rabbits foot, horseshoe, and the piece of wood I knock on!
 
redpepper said:
Your wife is indeed a remarkable woman.
Click to expand...

I know, which actually makes me want to lock up the poly Pandora's box and throw away the key, because, as you know, I'm very closed in my view on my wife with others. I'm not sure I even want to open it all up. I don't want to share her.
 
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