When Emotional Reactions Become a Problem

Hi Arius,

Things have sure taken a turn for the worse, I think you are right to decide to move out, it sucks that she has taken sex off the table. I know you still want to try to be in a relationship with her, but I wonder if she wants to be in a relationship with you. At the very least, it seems like she wants to change it into a platonic relationship. Like a friendship. Is that something you can live with? just being friends with her?

Like GalaGirl said, stick with your plan, move out, make your list of requests, and break up if she's unwilling to meet those requests. She's been pushing you away for a long time.

With sympathy,
Kevin T.
 
I'm really not down with any program where the first step is admitting that you're powerless. I'm not powerless.

You're mistaking the meaning of this and mis-taking a phrase out of the context of the other Steps and out of the context of an entire program. It's not about "I'm a powerless human being." 12 Step programs are about becoming authentically powerFUL in all the good ways - but the first step is to recognize that whatever you're doing and whoever you're struggling with whatever brought you in there isn't working for you. My aim isn't to convince you to pursue Al-Anon, but to represent the program correctly for anyone who might be reading along and considering it. Al-Anon is a great program for people who tend to think that other people are the source of their problems.
 
When we were sliding into BDSM, Annie asked me what my boundaries were in regards to her activity. Near the top of my list, I said, would be that "you are not to involve me in games without my prior consent." That was to include displays of "topping from the bottom" & such brattishness.

Arius, my feeling is that unless you are a head in a jar, you are NOT as helpless OR as undesirable as you say. Much more likely that your self-image has been eroded, grain by grain, for at least a year. Whether she's doing so intentionally or not, or acting on behalf of her "master," is irrelevant.

If she were male, I'd readily say she's "being a dick" & in fact has been doing so for many months.

As well, I'd guess that you are presently in the role of enabler, making up for the (likely significant) gaps in her little "24/7" fantasy script. If you leave, & things go well for her/them, then you'd be a fool for clinging instead. I suspect it'll go wonky, & she'll reel you in for aid & comfort, then kick you in the proverbial nuts to prove she doesn't really need you at all.

Stop rescuing her. Save yourself first, for once.

Leave, & never live together again. Rediscover your individuality, rather than clinging to the notion you barely deserve to be someone's Igor/Renfield/Quasimodo.

she has spoken of making a second key in case of a medical emergency.
Not necessary. In an actual emergency, the EMTs will simply cut it off rather than waste time looking for a key. :rolleyes: Whoever came up with that rationale is probably a bit of a drama queen...
 
When we were sliding into BDSM, Annie asked me what my boundaries were in regards to her activity. Near the top of my list, I said, would be that "you are not to involve me in games without my prior consent." That was to include displays of "topping from the bottom" & such brattishness.

Arius, my feeling is that unless you are a head in a jar, you are NOT as helpless OR as undesirable as you say. Much more likely that your self-image has been eroded, grain by grain, for at least a year. Whether she's doing so intentionally or not, or acting on behalf of her "master," is irrelevant.

If she were male, I'd readily say she's "being a dick" & in fact has been doing so for many months.

As well, I'd guess that you are presently in the role of enabler, making up for the (likely significant) gaps in her little "24/7" fantasy script. If you leave, & things go well for her/them, then you'd be a fool for clinging instead. I suspect it'll go wonky, & she'll reel you in for aid & comfort, then kick you in the proverbial nuts to prove she doesn't really need you at all.

Stop rescuing her. Save yourself first, for once.

Leave, & never live together again. Rediscover your individuality, rather than clinging to the notion you barely deserve to be someone's Igor/Renfield/Quasimodo.


Not necessary. In an actual emergency, the EMTs will simply cut it off rather than waste time looking for a key. :rolleyes: Whoever came up with that rationale is probably a bit of a drama queen...


We had a conversation early in our relationship in which I explicitly expressed that I would not be comfortable with her having a 24/7 dynamic with someone else; she assured me she had no interest in that. Then, six years in, she suddenly makes a unilateral decision to go ahead and do it anyway. Her relationship-sabotaging unilateral decision-making is one of many things I plan to discuss once I have an emotionally safe place to live. It could very well be a deal-breaker.

My self-confidence has definitely taken a serious beating in the past year, as it became increasingly apparent that she was into this new guy in a way that I didn't even think was possible. She obviously loves him so much more than me (that's the objective truth, and I'm not the only person who has observed it), and I feel like shit in comparison. It's like she was saving this better version of herself for someone worthier. But I'm trying to stop making comparisons and just accept that I am who I am. It doesn't help me to compare myself to others.

I'm trying to improve my confidence, which I think would make me a lot more attractive, but I have no idea where to start or how to do that. I did a David D. Burns workbook on confidence, and it was useless. I'm wondering if I'll be more confident once I'm on my own.

The thing is, I'm not convinced that my self-confidence is even that bad. I actually think I'm pretty great. I'm just very aware that almost nobody else shares that opinion. My other lover does seem to think I'm pretty great though. But that's a very casual arrangement.

I'm not under-selling myself. After a lifetime of evaluation and rejection, I know exactly and precisely how desirable I am. Beauty privilege is real, and I don't have it. Which I think makes all this "life is abundance" stuff just a load of bullshit. When you're a mediocre-looking poor disabled polyamorous anarcho-primitivist who was abused as a child, love is rare. It just is.

I'm angry at myself for not being as awesome as he is, for not working harder to find ways to help her grow more in her kinks. I'm angry at her for giving him so much and me so little. I'm angry at the world for rejecting me.

But I think I'm at a place where I can accept spending my one life alone.

I am aware of my enabler/caretaker role. It's been hard to navigate. I used to make all her food and wash all her dishes, etc, but I've stopped doing that. It felt shitty to always be rescuing her, and it feels shitty to withdraw support from her. There's just no way to be in a healthy relationship with an alcoholic. To her credit, she's been sober lately and is able to make her own food. The dishes pile up if I don't do them, but that'll be her problem once I'm out of here.

I tend to only have problems with "takers." When I'm with givers, the giving is mutual and everything is great. She's a taker and she'll probably never change.

She's not a drama queen. I think she just doesn't know whether the EMTs would have the tools to cut through a metal ring. Which is a reasonable thing not to know. A friend u-locked her neck to a fence once, and it took the cops about an hour to saw through it. I believe the "second key" thing was maybe an olive branch. That she was trying to make me feel included a little in their dynamic.

I still feel super pissed about the idea that he has this power over her that I don't. In my mind, that automatically creates a hierarchy with him at the top and me somewhere beneath, and I'm not okay with that. If he wants that position of dominance over me, he'll have to fight me for it.

Also, I think someone asked this question somewhere, and yes, she does tell me she loves me multiple times a day. She is sweet and affectionate most of the time and has a huge heart. I think one of our main problems is that she was neglected as a child and doesn't know how to show love. Also, my love language is touch, and hers is words of affirmation. She tries to remember and touch me, but it doesn't come naturally for her. Despite that, I don't doubt that she loves me.

Once I've got my own place, I'm going to find out if she thinks this relationship is worth the work. If it's not, I'm walking. Either way, I'll be better off.

I just really don't want to lose her. I can't describe the love I have for her despite all of her flaws. She understands and accepts me in a way that nobody ever has.
 
Apologies, Arius, for the following (likely long-winded :eek:) replies, but my gut says that you are totally sincere, & have been "kept in a box" for so long that maybe you need as much encouragement as possible to properly consider your situation.

(As I type, my mind keeps playing "Scarborough Fair," telling me she's setting you one impossible task after another, "THEN you'll be a true love of mine.")

Let's begin with basic issues of trust, & whether someone is worthy --
I explicitly expressed that I would not be comfortable with her having a 24/7 dynamic with someone else
There you go: "asked, & answered," as they say in the courts.

one of many things I plan to discuss once I have an emotionally safe place to live.
By all means, yes!! Please care for yourself first, else you're no good to anyone else.

However, I cannot be optimistic about any discussion. As things stand, there's no clear motivation for her to respond; after you separate, the only reason I can discern to speak candidly with you is if she wants to drag you back into a situation that's not much different from what you now have.

she was saving this better version of herself for someone worthier.
No. Just, no.

Even if that sort of thinking had ANY truth, that'd clearly say that she has been LYING to you all along. How is that YOUR fault?

(Let's say that she was totally honest with you up to a year ago when she decided to be a slavegirl, & her "master" has been using her to mess with you since. That'd mean she's intentionally abusing you NOW. So, she's either currently abusing you or has been abusing you all along.)

Who's to say that this "better version" isn't just D/s play-acting?

But you MUST cease such negative comparisons, OK?? Even if you're some sort of grossly disfigured Phantom, she CHOSE to be with you. It is NOT your fault for HER choices. And if she now chooses to make you a secondary (tertiary?) part of her life, the "old contract" is over anyway.

I'm wondering if I'll be more confident once I'm on my own.
IME? Probably!! Sure, it might take months, to wean yourself from the day-to-day mind control, but when that crap starts to fade it's only YOU being subjective that will prevent YOU from seeing objectively that you are an introspective person AND capable of outward understanding.

I actually think I'm pretty great. I'm just very aware that almost nobody else shares that opinion.
Well, there ya go, to hell with THEM then, right? :D Go forth & be thine own true self. (Gods know, I ain't pretty, but calm honesty has earned me MUCH support.)

I'm not under-selling myself.
Actually, you have been in these threads. That can change.

Beauty privilege is real, and I don't have it.
Neither do I. But my "wake-up call" came when I was out with Julee on our first date. See, she's a 5'9 auburn-haired Irish flight attendant, & I'm this skinny nerd with a 156 IQ. An hour in, ordering our second coffees, she paused, sat back, sorta looked puzzled, & said "I never thought someone like you would be interested in someone like me." My immediate reaction was, "that's MY line!!" :eek: She wasn't at all used to anyone who got past her stunning looks & found her to be smart, witty, & challenging.

If you don't believe in yourself, nobody else will either. Past that, whether you'll win any beauty contests really is immaterial.
love is rare. It just is.
Well...unusual, maybe, but not rare. Largely, it's about as "impossible" as YOU want to make it.

I'm angry at myself for not being as awesome as he is
Well, heck, there ya go: HE AIN'T. :rolleyes: You're comparing yourself to an ideal, NOT to another human. Let her devote herself to being his play-toy & actually trying to fulfill the "24/7" myth.

I think I'm at a place where I can accept spending my one life alone.
It's a good place to be AND that phrasing is absolute unvarnished bullshit. (Hey, BTDT. ;)) Finding your personal "absolute zero" DOES NOT mean resigining yourself to be forever stuck there. If you WANT to stay alone, that's cool (I'm enjoying a "hermit" phase myself), but IMO you first very much do need time & a safe space in which to rediscover your worth, without it being undercut every day/hour/minute.

It felt shitty to always be rescuing her, and it feels shitty to withdraw support from her.
There ya go: classic enabler thinking.

Don't accept martyrdom. Unless you feel in your heart that she is weak &/or stupid, you'll be able to admit she doesn't NEED a rescuer at all; if she's that dysfunctional, then fixing her is likely far beyond your skills.

I broke myself of the habit by realizing I had two choices: keep supporting my lover so that she could keep making crazed attempts to hurt herself -- & maybe the next time would be worse, or even permanent -- or be responsibly selfish for once: I admitted the toll her addictions were taking on me, & accepted that if I didn't start taking care of myself, I'd soon enough be useless not only to her but to everyone in my life. I insisted that she needed professional help; she got angry, broke off the relationship, & we never spoke again. Yah, that path hurt, but probably MUCH less than if I'd clung to her for the rest of the ride.

She's not a drama queen. ...she was trying to make me feel included a little in their dynamic.
No; nonsense. Either YOU are "drama queening" in relating the story, or SHE is being accurately portrayed as a scenery-chewer.

FWIW, unless the collar is entirely steel cable, any EMT will snip through it in a fraction of a second. The hasp is immaterial.

And if the "second key" thought is her proposed way of making YOU feel somehow important, I have to call BS.

If he wants that position of dominance over me, he'll have to fight me for it.
The "fight" has already happened. You lost. There will be no rematch allowed. He's in control until she gets tired of it; even if she quits, there's no guarantee she won't just run the script again with a new "master."

she does tell me she loves me multiple times a day. She is sweet and affectionate most of the time and has a huge heart. ... I don't doubt that she loves me.
There's a model of child abuse I once studied, very particular to the mother. In it, a woman will "bottle up" her frustration, doubt, & anger, outwardly appearing only to be a little hurried. At some point, there's just one straw too many. That's when the hitting starts. The literature is full of truly horrific accounts of a woman beating or scalding or burning her baby. And when that peak anger passes, the woman is instantly remorseful, & makes heroic efforts to save the child. It's almost a two-personality situation: there is ZERO transition between the two states, rather like flipping a switch.

So I don't doubt that the same person who is messing with you actually does also harbor sincere warmth for you. However, love doesn't justify abuse.
she was neglected as a child and doesn't know how to show love.
YANAT -- you are not a therapist. She's working to fix her scars, or she's not. Either way, it's not YOUR problem. And giving her a "golden ticket" to be a jerk whenever she pleases is NOT a way for her to get better.

It's not great that you wrap up on an enabler note --
I don't want to lose her. I can't describe the love I have for her despite all of her flaws. She understands and accepts me in a way that nobody ever has.
See, that's talking in circles. If she truly "understands" you, then she couldn't possibly avoid understanding the pain she's inflicting on you. If she's okay with hurting you, then your underlying assumptions are clearly flawed. Setting aside the matter of her potential, her actions are at best questionable.

It's high time you set aside the root assumption that she's somehow "the only one." How often have you allowed anyone else to get close enough to maybe show that your partner is far from perfect?

In any case, YOU need to do some healing & regain inner strength. Do not backslide. You first need to "be the best you."
 
How often have you allowed anyone else to get close enough to maybe show that your partner is far from perfect?

Wow! Where is the applause smilie??
I heartily encourage you to ponder each of Ravenscroft's thoughtful responses that he took the time to craft for you, Arius.
 
Oh wow, I must support pretty much everything Ravenscroft had to say in the last post.

Originally Posted by Arius View Post
I'm angry at myself for not being as awesome as he is
Well, heck, there ya go: HE AIN'T. :rolleyes: You're comparing yourself to an ideal, NOT to another human. Let her devote herself to being his play-toy & actually trying to fulfill the "24/7" myth.
Just wanted to highlight that, not because it's the most profound point of the post, but because I think it's counterintuitive if you don't have the bdsm experience.
You know that stary-eyed fantasy you craft about a potential lover when nre first hits you? The one where you don't love a real person yet, but your wish how they should be to be perfect for you? In D/s, you maintain, nurture, actively build and act on this idea of your play-partner. There's something beautiful in doing so as it does bring up deep sincere desires in both people, it's can allow you to fulfill childhood needs and charge yourself with energy, it can be a deeply healing place. But it's a house of cards, and the DS relationship isn't really healthy until both can go back and forth between this kind of play and relating as real, flawed human beings.
She's a year in and moving deeper in the dynamics. Of course, she's gonna think of her master in this romanticized way and give off the vibe as if he's perfect. He's not. He's just showing her the best 'dominant' mask he can put up when they're playing, and she's willingly choosing to relate to this mask.
 
Oh, yes. Ravenscroft hit every nail smack-bang in the middle of its head. ^
 
Replying to : I’m disabled, poor, a relationship anarchist,’and not that good looking.

First, many of us want a good person inside, and the rest is inconsequential.

None of those are dealbreakers to the right person.

And- are you putting down others who may be disabled, poor, a relationship anarchist, not conventionally good looking?

Either you have higher standards for yourself than others, your self-esteem has taken a beating,
Or you might benefit from looking at relationships differently

Good luck- you deserve to find happiness in your dating,
 
Replying to : I’m disabled, poor, a relationship anarchist,’and not that good looking.

First, many of us want a good person inside, and the rest is inconsequential.

None of those are dealbreakers to the right person.

And- are you putting down others who may be disabled, poor, a relationship anarchist, not conventionally good looking?

I do agree with the sentiment that I shouldn't say anything to myself that I wouldn't say to another person. But that's not what's happening here. You've taken my words out of context and twisted them to mean something I didn't intend. Which may be my fault for not communicating properly.

So let me try again.

I have no problem with anarchists, disabled people, or people who get rejected left right and center on OkCupid. Being those things doesn't make me or anybody else an undesirable person.

However, I do acknowledge that each of these things makes me an extremely NICHE person to date. As in, the "right person" might not even exist for me, or could be living on a small permaculture farm somewhere in Tibet with no internet access. Actually, after scouring the internet for years, I found one person who might be right for me. She lives in a different country, and after a brief online romance, she went monogamous with an insecure man she fell in love with.

I don't know a lot of polyamorous women who are actually cool with me bringing home dumpstered food for dinner. Or who would give me a kiss on the cheek and say "don't forget your balaclava, dear!" as I'm on my way out the door to an illegal land occupation or some other activity that could easily land me in jail. Or who would JOIN me in said activity, or who would be on the organizing body and invite ME to said activity. Who would ask the cops if they have a warrant before letting them into the house. Who are cool with sharing a slummy apartment with friends indefinitely and never having any money. Etc.

Even if you all lived in my city, I would not be a good match for probably about 99.999% of the people on this polyamory board, due to my political philosophy, economic position, health, etc. And yet people are constantly telling me how abundant love is. And maybe it is. FOR YOU. But it isn't for me, and I get frustrated when people try to tell me that it is.

Polyamorous people are overwhelmingly white, affluent, and beautiful. I think it's important to be real about the fact that not everyone is all of those things and that our experiences of polyamory are going to be different.

I have a chronic illness that makes it almost impossible for me to leave my house most days. So I don't meet people through working on projects or whatever. That leaves online dating. In the online dating world, people look at your pic for two seconds and then make a decision whether or not they even want to read your profile. So maybe we all do want to date people who are "good inside," but the technology is strongly biased against that.

This isn't an argument for staying in an unhappy relationship. I have a plan to get out, and I'm committed to that.

I was just trying to make a point about privilege and perspectives. For the record, I do generally prefer to think of life as full of abundance and to be grateful, because I think that's an attitude that is more likely to get me what I want. I come from a place of fear of scarcity, and I'm trying to develop a new script. I appreciate the reminders. But I also get annoyed when everybody is like "oh just throw this relationship in the trash and get a new one! That's what I'd do!" without acknowledging my pain and fear around rejection and loneliness.

I'm sorry if I'm crusty about it.

I also appreciate the fact that y'all are trying to help me move on, but trashing my partner feels uncomfortable and I think a lot of her negative traits are being magnified and distorted and even invented to paint her as this awful villain, and it's just not like that and it makes me uncomfortable. I know full well that she does things that don't feel good to me. I can name them all. I also see her good traits. It helps to have people try to put things into sharper focus by zooming in on the bad sometimes, but yeah.

I started this thread because I was trying to figure out if it was okay for me to have these negative reactions to her "good" news, and what I should do about it.

Her and I talked about it on Sunday, and I was firm with her that I have feelings and that if she doesn't want to deal with them, she doesn't have to. She agreed that she had chosen to engage with me about them before I'd had time to process or work through. She either needs to own that - that she WANTS to know my feelings - or disengage and let me process them on my own or with others.

We had trouble reaching any sort of agreement about checking in before making important potentially relationship-altering decisions. She was firm that she values her autonomy way too much to ever allow someone else's feelings to factor into her decision-making. I pointed out that this could mean that she could make an uninformed decision that damages our relationship beyond repair, which suggests that she doesn't value our relationship.

I said that I always want to check in with my partners before I do something that might upset them because I care about the relationship and want to make an informed choice. I'm not giving anybody veto power, but I just want to know how they feel about it so I can factor that into my decision. For some reason, which I don't understand, she balked at this and refused to agree that it was a good idea. I could ask her more questions about it, but at this point we are just focusing on making our interactions more enjoyable because she is tired of arguing. (Which I know is fucked up, but I'm just trying to keep things livable around here until I move out.) We went out to a restaurant and snuggled a bit.

It did feel good to at least get to a place where I can see this as a difference of values or a disagreement about how to be autonomous in sexual relationships rather than her just not giving a fuck.

This actually could all be moot. I have an opportunity to go live in a different province and I think I might avail myself of that. If I do, our relationship will essentially be over. She's told me that she doesn't do long distance. Time will tell if that's a good thing or not. I suspect it's for the best, but I love her a lot and it hurts to think about.

I am on the fence about leaving though, because it means abandoning my FWB and my band, which are both things that I treasure. But I think some time away from this city, alone in a rural area, could be really good for me.

I will address Ravencroft's masterpiece later, when I have more energy again.
 
Polyamorous people are overwhelmingly white, affluent, and beautiful.

Are you aware that this judgment is bigotry?

You're assuming that everyone in this forum community comes from a feathered nest of privilege and ease - and that is not only untrue, the assumption creates yet one more separation between you and a sense of belonging in the world.
 
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Or who would give me a kiss on the cheek and say "don't forget your balaclava, dear!" as I'm on my way out the door to an illegal land occupation or some other activity that could easily land me in jail. Or who would JOIN me in said activity, or who would be on the organizing body and invite ME to said activity.

I have a chronic illness that makes it almost impossible for me to leave my house most days.

Well which is it? Are you a subversive grass-roots balaclava-wearing freedom-fighter, or a nerdy antisocial disabled shut-in?

Are you for real or is this another cuckold-wannabe sockpuppet?
 
Are you aware that this judgment is bigotry?

You're assuming that everyone in this forum community comes from a feathered nest of privilege and ease - and that is not only untrue, the assumption creates yet one more separation between you and a sense of belonging in the world.

Okay, first of all, it's not a judgment, it's a statistical fact gleaned from studies of polyamorous people. I'm not assuming anything about EVERYONE on this forum. I suppose I am assuming that the folks on this message board are a roughly representative sample of the polyamorous population.
 
Well which is it? Are you a subversive grass-roots balaclava-wearing freedom-fighter, or a nerdy antisocial disabled shut-in?

Are you for real or is this another cuckold-wannabe sockpuppet?

A) Actually, I'm both, depending on how well I am at the time.
B) When I wrote that, I was describing the sort of person I want to be with, not necessarily giving an accurate picture of my current day-to-day level of functioning.

Why would you take time out of your day to point out a completely irrelevant seeming contradiction in my post, and then insult me and insinuate that I'm lying?
 
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Ravenscroft,

I don't have much to say in response to your response except that I really appreciate the amount of time and energy you put into it. And I especially appreciated the gentle tone of the whole thing. I'm feeling pretty raw right now and the kindness was what I needed most.

Thank you.

Arius.
 
I am aware of my enabler/caretaker role. It's been hard to navigate. I used to make all her food and wash all her dishes, etc, but I've stopped doing that. It felt shitty to always be rescuing her, and it feels shitty to withdraw support from her. There's just no way to be in a healthy relationship with an alcoholic. To her credit, she's been sober lately and is able to make her own food. The dishes pile up if I don't do them, but that'll be her problem once I'm out of here.

That is correct. Dishes will be her responsibility when you move out. She will do them or not.

Since it feels shitty to always rescue her and it feels shitty to withdraw support? Rather than the standard being "level of shitty" (since both are shitty) the standard could be "what is less work on you."

And you are doing it so things are less work on you. You are moving out. None of these home chores will be your responsibility any more there.

I tend to only have problems with "takers." When I'm with givers, the giving is mutual and everything is great. She's a taker and she'll probably never change.

You know her best. Could accept this is how she is. She's a taker, and she probably will never change.


Once I've got my own place, I'm going to find out if she thinks this relationship is worth the work. If it's not, I'm walking. Either way, I'll be better off.
Correct. You will be better off either way.

You have a plan. So stick with it. Maintain peace enough for now while on your last days living there. Then move out as planned. Be on guard for a lot of sweetie pie honey bunch talk designed to lure you back esp if she now has jobs she doesn't want to be doing and prefers you do again. (Taker thing.)

You sound like you have had enough empty words. Believe actions.

Her and I talked about it on Sunday, and I was firm with her that I have feelings and that if she doesn't want to deal with them, she doesn't have to. She agreed that she had chosen to engage with me about them before I'd had time to process or work through. She either needs to own that - that she WANTS to know my feelings - or disengage and let me process them on my own or with others.

Good for you. Being more firm.

She was firm that she values her autonomy way too much to ever allow someone else's feelings to factor into her decision-making. I pointed out that this could mean that she could make an uninformed decision that damages our relationship beyond repair, which suggests that she doesn't value our relationship.

I said that I always want to check in with my partners before I do something that might upset them because I care about the relationship and want to make an informed choice. I'm not giving anybody veto power, but I just want to know how they feel about it so I can factor that into my decision. For some reason, which I don't understand, she balked at this and refused to agree that it was a good idea.

Basically she wants to do whatever she wants without considering her partner's feelings. You don't like that and prefer to to consider your partners and for them to consider you. You will not get that here with this partner. This is incompatible ways of going. So... I think parting ways and moving out is best.

There's just no way to be in a healthy relationship with an alcoholic.

You seem to recognize this is not a healthy dynamic.

This actually could all be moot. I have an opportunity to go live in a different province and I think I might avail myself of that. If I do, our relationship will essentially be over. She's told me that she doesn't do long distance. Time will tell if that's a good thing or not. I suspect it's for the best, but I love her a lot and it hurts to think about.

Of course it hurts. That's ok. This is fresh/still happening. Could accept that it will hurt in short term because you are not actually moved out yet and dealing with changes requires time to digest all that is going on.

Could think about what gives you more chances to not hurt in the long term.

If you think it is best to move to another province, and terminate the relationship more firmly so that gives you a fresh start and more chances to be free of hurting? Go for it.

Galagirl
 
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Okay, first of all, it's not a judgment, it's a statistical fact gleaned from studies of polyamorous people. I'm not assuming anything about EVERYONE on this forum. I suppose I am assuming that the folks on this message board are a roughly representative sample of the polyamorous population.

Which studies?

Something I am aware of for poly studies in general is that it is difficult to find non-white, non-middle class folks to participate. Not impossible, just much harder. People who are white or better off have less to fear from the stigma of being poly so they are more likely to be out, or at least more public. Any study which does not do a LOT of work to get non-white, non-middle class responses has representational issues. It's not that all or most poly people are white, better off financially, or conventionally attractive. It's that people who may fit those descriptors are the ones who respond to studies asking for participants, that's who gets most of the media attention and that's who feel the most 'safe' in being more public. It's self-perpetuating cycle and a deeply frustrating one.

I do believe that the public representation (and perception) of people who are poly does tend towards the white, the at least middle class and the (at least in reality TV land) more conventionally attractive, and the more couple focused.

That public representation is really problematic. It literally hides all the poly diversity out there. In my hometown of Baltimore, I know of a thriving black and poly community. I know many folks who are disabled and poly. I know all sorts of people who practice some kind of solo poly or relationship anarchy who hardly ever see themselves in the couple-centric portrayals of poly out there. Trans and non-binary poly people get ignored. I don't doubt there are Latinx poly people out there but I am sadly unfamiliar with that community. People who are not the stereotype of a bisexual woman in a relationship with a man get overlooked although queer communities have contributed greatly in a wide variety of ways to alternative relationship ideas and models.

This is changing. Black and poly is getting more attention as several black poly educators and activists have written books, given workshops, or organized conventions around race and poly. It's like the media (and honestly probably way too many white poly folks) have just realized that black people 'do' poly too. And not seeing one self in the 'mainstream' media of course reinforces that poly is just for white, relatively well off, and attractive people.

Like I wrote above, it's a frustrating cycle. I do think it is slowly getting better. Sometimes mainstream media manages to report on someone not white who is poly, sometimes they talk to poly folks who are solo poly or who don't actually want a unicorn to join their relationship. But it is slow and painful and so much of the content has to be created by people who are not being represented at all.

As for this board, I doubt it is all that representative. Anytime a group is self-selected, representational accuracy often suffers.

(As an end note, the forum does get trolls here on a fairly regular basis who post what at first seems like reasonable questions or situations that devolve into 1) wank fodder or 2) traditional 'trolling' as in trying to a rise out of people. We had a recent troll who posted several times about 'his' 'issues' with his female partner having sex with other men but not him. 'He' turned out to just have a hotwife and/or cuckold fantasy. There is nothing wrong with that fantasy. But people here assume others are real, are possibly in real pain or distress, and would like advice or support. When people troll, especially when it's not obvious at first and people respond in good faith - well, it gets under our collective skin. That's the background to ref2018 response to your post. I too wondered about the balaclava comment - it did not seem to fit with the rest of your posts. Now that I understand it was your past and future hopes, it makes sense.)
 
(As an end note, the forum does get trolls here on a fairly regular basis who post what at first seems like reasonable questions or situations that devolve into 1) wank fodder or 2) traditional 'trolling' as in trying to a rise out of people. We had a recent troll who posted several times about 'his' 'issues' with his female partner having sex with other men but not him. 'He' turned out to just have a hotwife and/or cuckold fantasy. There is nothing wrong with that fantasy. But people here assume others are real, are possibly in real pain or distress, and would like advice or support. When people troll, especially when it's not obvious at first and people respond in good faith - well, it gets under our collective skin. That's the background to ref2018 response to your post. I too wondered about the balaclava comment - it did not seem to fit with the rest of your posts. Now that I understand it was your past and future hopes, it makes sense.)


The person who posted that latest wank-thread went straight to reddit and posted the same copypasta in two subforums. I duly obliged by taking time out of my day to link them to that thread on here. One of those threads was removed by the subreddit mods and the other got deleted by the OP.
 
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:eek: Good work!
The person who posted that latest wank-thread went straight to reddit and posted the same copypasta in two subforums. I duly obliged by taking time out of my day to link them to that thread on here. One of those threads was removed by the subreddit mods and the other got deleted by the OP.
 
As far as the white/affluent/able thing goes, I'm aware that my anecdotes aren't a study, but...

I have some serious anxiety and depression. I'm also on the asexual spectrum. My girlfriend Raven and her husband Ravenhub are poor, Ravenhub is disabled, Ravenhub's girlfriend is disabled. Ravenhub is some kind of anarchosocialist with community living goals. Raven's other partner is a black nerd. My husband Guitarist is an anarchist these days. We live in the rural midwest US. He stays at home and writes/records/produces music while I work outside the home. He struggles with depression. His long-term girlfriend Spice is black. My local poly scene is madly inclusive to all varieties of non-privileged minorities.

I don't think your traits and interests are as much of a disqualifier as you think. Yes, they make it harder to find people to date, especially if you're looking in the wrong places. But in my experience, polyamory is a very inclusive community in many places BECAUSE by default we're all outside the norm just by virtue of being polyamorous.

Anyway, I'm sorry you're struggling. If/after you move, I might suggest looking into local groups that are low-effort, like Facebook groups, to get a feel for your more local community and as a way to meet people. Good luck!
 
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