When "Ethical" Non-Monogamy Becomes Anything But

[dance705]

I need some perspective on a situation that has left me pretty devastated. My DH has been carrying on an emotional affair, after I closed our relationship with the woman who used to be his secondary partner, while still insisting he’s done nothing wrong.

From the beginning, we had different understandings of what our relationship was. We agreed to an open marriage— one based on honesty, transparency, and mutual respect. And DH, being poly, instead of open and honest communication, chose secrecy, breaking every commitment to me, while prioritizing his secondary.

This has been an ongoing pattern of deception. He promised to end the relationship with his secondary a couple of months ago, and he didn't. Later, when I made the decision to close our marriage, he promised they would only be friends—until he eventually admitted that they had been having an emotional affair for weeks. He then promised to stop communicating with her during Lent, but in the very first week, when he left town for work and I was alone managing everything, he broke that promise yet again and is now communicating with his secondary, hiding messages and calls on separate platforms so I can't see them. Every time I try to establish a boundary, he agrees, but then breaks it.

One of the most painful betrayals is that he promised he would never fall in love with her—yet here we are. He has admitted to deep feelings for her, all while continuing to break the boundaries we set together. He claims that since he told me he would continue speaking to her after breaking his original promise, it no longer counts as a betrayal. Instead of taking responsibility, he turns it around on me—accusing me of "gaslighting" him, "isolating" him from someone who "cares about him," and making me feel like my pain is unreasonable.

Meanwhile, his secondary has fully engaged in this dynamic, knowing he is married and aware of the hurt this is causing. I have reached out to her, but she refuses to respond.

I know polyamory and ethical non-monogamy are based on honesty, respect, and mutual agreement. But when one partner repeatedly lies, breaks promises, and disregards the other’s emotional well-being, can it ever be ethical? I feel like I’m being told my reality isn’t real and that my devastation is just me “playing games.”

Has anyone else dealt with a situation like this? How do you move forward when trust has been so completely broken?

 

[Sisilisko]

No, lying isn't ethical. Breaking promises and agreements isn't ethical. Disregarding other person's feelings - I believe unethical (but I know many people who sincerely believe it's neutral).

On the other hand, a promise that someone will not fall in love? Doomed to be broken. Feelings are, at least to some degree, not under anyone's control. Even traditional marital vows are limited to what people intend to do-- take care of each other through hardship and ill health, remain physically faithful, etc. Unluckily, people often open a relationship expecting that a promise not to fall in love will keep things safe; the person who later falls in love believes it as genuinely as the person who relies on the promise not being broken.

When Fasaani and I started dating, we certainly thought it'd be just "friends with benefits" forever. It took only a few weeks to get out of hand.

Also, Fasaani has often made the same mistake your DH is doing-- he so genuinely wants to make me happy that he doesn't consider how (un)likely it is that he'll be able to follow through. It took us a greater part of three years of arguments before he finally accepted that it’s better to disappoint me upfront by not promising, than to break a promise later, and learnt to actually apply that wisdom.

In your post, you ask whether the treatment you are given can even be considered ethical. As I've written, I don't think so, but that's not the point here. Even if it were, you're not required to suffer through something just because it's not unethical (e.g., you're not required to eat at a restaurant where neither the food nor the music is to your taste, even though it's not unethical to cook food you don't like and play music a little too loud). Do you want to be in a relationship like this? If not, have you suffered so much that you're ready to leave?

How do you move forward when trust has been so completely broken?

Hiiri got over "it" by seeing evidence that she's loved. I got over the broken promises by seeing evidence that Fasaani loves me and is willing to work on being more trustworthy and other issues that are causing me pain. We've also both spent lots of time communicating our needs and listening to him voicing his.

 

[Tinwen]

Lying is not cool. Neither is opening up when you are not on the same page.

It sounds like, if your relationship has any chance to survive, or at least to end with mutual respect, you need to put aside all expectations of what a relationship should be and really listen to each other. He told you he is poly, yet you expect him not to love. How does that mesh together?

But maybe it was never your idea to open. Maybe you were dragged into it from the beginning, and all has been wrong all along. Time to reexamine then.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello dance705,

Your husband is definitely doing something wrong, he is carrying on a relationship without your consent. He has been dishonest with you for a long time, and that is also wrong. It sounds like he is gaslighting you, he is making you feel like your pain is unreasonable. He is practicing unethical nonmonogamy. I'm sorry he's doing that.

Sympathy and regards,
Kevin T.

 

[Magdlyn]

I'm going to say that I personally think vetoes are unethical, impractical and do not restore trust in a relationship, but quite the opposite, cause resentment.

You can agree in your couple's negotiations to have vetoes, to be used if one partner no longer approves of the other partner's OSO. But as you've seen, just because you used your veto, it doesn't automatically cause the feelings the other dyad has for each other to end.

And as Tinwen said, you can open a relationship to "sex only," and say, "no falling in love with your sex partners," but still fall in love. Feelings happen. Some people won't fall in love. Maybe you could date someone and have great sex with them, and not fall in love. That's fine. But it seems your husband can't, at least with this particular woman.

Maybe you and he have both dated others already, up to this point, who were just fuckbuddies or friends with benefits. However, now someone has come along for husband who rings all his bells, and he fell in love. Maybe he's still in love with you. Maybe he fell out of love with you.

Either way, can't you see that telling someone who is in love to somehow unring the bell and just "be friends" with his beloved is unreasonable?

I can speak from experience. It hurts!

I went through this exact same thing. When my ex-h and I were new to poly, we opened up as unicorn hunters, thinking we'd find a nice woman to share, for threeway sex, nothing more. But we met a woman who said she was interested in that, and it turned out quite differently. She wasn't interested in me sexually, and barely interested in me as a friend. She fell in love with my h, he fell in love with her. And it turned out he was monoamorous (although polysexual). He fell out of love with me, his wife of 20 years, when he fell in love with her. (He was still quite interested in sex with me, but all the romance, and true caring, suddenly died.)

Like you, I vetoed. I said they could be "friends." This was a very deep friendship. It was love. They had an online relationship for a few years, only seeing each other at major events held by mutual friends. Eventually he and I divorced, and she moved in with him almost immediately. They fell in love in 2000, he and I split in 2008. Last year, they finally got married.

You asked for perspectives. That is mine. I am not bitter. I moved on to partners better suited for me. I'd grown apart from my ex-h in many ways, even before we "opened."

Questions:
Why did you open your marriage? Why did you veto your h's relationship? Is he still in love with you? Can you become open to actual polyamory (which, please note, this board is here to support), rather than just an open marriage with no feelings allowed? Or is this a dealbreaker and you have to split up with your husband?

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry this is happening like this. I see you hurt.

I could be wrong, but it sounds like this to me. I don't know if it helps you any, but you asked for other perspectives.

How do you move forward when trust has been so completely broken?

If he makes agreements with you and then doesn't keep them, it's dinged you several times, and his behavior is not stopping or changing? I think you two have to decide how much more you have in you for giving this relationship more second chances.

• You have to decide whether you want to keep trying with him, or if you are basically done. Only YOU can answer that.
• He has to decide whether he wants to keep trying with you, or if he's basically done. Only HE can answer that.

You have to see if you align on that question, or not. Depending on where that lies, you figure out next steps.

If you both choose to stay, you two have to figure out if any new shared agreements are keepable, rational, and realistic, or not. Otherwise it's just going to be more of same later on, just riding the same merry-go-round in circles over and over and never getting anywhere. If you two need help making better shared agreements, it might include working with a couples counselor to check if agreements are realistic and reasonable, or not. What are the "hard limits" that would never change? What are the "soft limits" that could change over time?

You also have to figure out what is "my stuff" that you are responsible for, what is "his stuff" that he is responsible for, and what is "our stuff" that you both have a shared responsibility for. Everything is not "our stuff."

Meanwhile, his secondary has fully engaged in this dynamic, knowing he is married and aware of the hurt this is causing. I have reached out to her, but she refuses to respond.

(I'd be happy to go with whatever name for his GF, if you want a different one. I just chose a generic color, "Red.")

Do you think it is Red's job to help maintain the (you + him) dyad? She's not even in it. Why would you ask her for help, rather than expecting the keeping and care of (you + him) to be on you and him, the people actually in it?

You don't even know what he tells Red. Maybe he does the same thing to her that he does to you. Maybe he tells her "whatever" in the moment and then turns around and does something else.

I think you could go "parallel" and not deal with Red.

Whatever is going on in the (him + Red) dyad is their problem, over on that side of the V. It's not yours. You have enough going on.

You also have to figure out the limits of a "primary-secondary" model. It works for some people, and not for others, because eventually they want to change the agreement to "co-primaries," or another model. Is that part of the compatibility issues here? He doesn't want the primary-secondary model anymore, but you do?

Models of Open Relationships by Kathy Labriola

You might have to address "poly hell" problems. If he's been dinging you left and right, you won't feel happy with him.

kathylabriola.com - ARE YOU IN POLY HELL?

COMMON PITFALLS IN OPEN RELATIONSHIPS Many people who are in a primary relationship stumble into an outside relationship either by choice or by chance, and once involved, things can go beautifully or can go terribly awry. Here are some of the most common problems that develop and some ideas for

www.kathylabriola.com

Maybe you ask him to read those two articles together.

He promised to end the relationship with his secondary a couple of months ago, and he didn't.

Did he volunteer this? Did you ask him to promise this? What was it supposed to fix or solve? Could it be fixed or solved another way?

Why would he promise this? Did he mean it, or did he panic and tell you "whatever" in the moment (maybe under duress)? Does he usually keep his word, or is he flaky with his word in other areas of life too?

Having promised, and then not kept his word... what are the consequences for YOU? Do you want to be partners with a chronic liar/over-promiser? What do you need to feel safe in a relationship with him? What does he need to feel safe in a relationship with you?

Later, when I made the decision to close our marriage, he promised they would only be friends—until he eventually admitted that they had been having an emotional affair for weeks.

You can decide to close YOUR side and not date anymore, but you don't get to make unilateral decisions for the couple. Opening a marriage and closing a marriage require a "two-people yes." BOTH spouses have to agree. It's not like one just decides for all, and the other spouse just has to accept it.

Why did he agree to close on his side, rather than telling you, "No, thanks. I see you are closing your side. I'm not closing mine," or similar?

Later, why did he admit it to you? What changes was he requesting?

Is it that both sides are hurting, and because you are hurting, you aren't really HEARING each other?

He then promised to stop communicating with her during Lent, but in the very first week, when he left town for work and I was alone managing everything, he broke that promise yet again and is now communicating with his secondary, hiding messages and calls on separate platforms so I can't see them.

Sounds like he says whatever in the moment to you, and then does something else.

What are you managing alone? Household, kid care, pet care, elder care? Is he fobbing his share of the chores onto you from the sky?

Why would you have to see his communications with other people? Are you both in each other's pocket too much, not giving each other enough privacy?

Could you ask if he is willing to limit his dating to Red only for now? Could you ask if he is willing to see a couples counselor and pause all NEW dating with NEW people until you have had X appointments, so there can be SOME calm rather than chronic tumult? Maybe this helps you find one:

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

www.polyfriendly.org

Every time I try to establish a boundary, he agrees, but then breaks it.

Every time you try to create a "shared agreement," he agrees at first, but then breaks it. It is not a "personal boundary" that YOU create. When you have a personal boundary for yourself it sounds like "If someone doesn't respect my limits, and I keep getting dinged in the relationship, I have to change expectations, reduce how close we are, and/or break up." The actions are things YOU do. Not him. YOU.

You sound like you are in anticipatory grief and worried this is going to break up. Could that be true?

You sound like you wanted open marriage for casual sex or ENM. You did not want full-on polyamory. Could that be true?

You sound like there's communication issues here and you need help getting past them. Could that be true?

One of the most painful betrayals is that he promised he would never fall in love with her—yet here we are. He has admitted to deep feelings for her, all while continuing to break the boundaries we set together. He claims that since he told me he would continue speaking to her after breaking his original promise, it no longer counts as a betrayal. Instead of taking responsibility, he turns it around on me—accusing me of "gaslighting" him, "isolating" him from someone who "cares about him," and making me feel like my pain is unreasonable.

To me, it sounds like BOTH have pain, and you both want that pain seen and acknowledged by the other one. Could that be true?

Could you say, "I get that you want to date Red. I get that me making unilateral decisions for the (you + me) couple, and expecting you to just fall into line feels yucky. I just decided to close the marriage, and expected you to just dump someone you care about just because I said so. I'm willing to see that poor behavior felt yucky to you, like I'm being the boss of everything and you get no voice at all.

Are you willing to see that you making promises to me that you don't actually keep is poor behavior that feels yucky to me?

Can we agree to try stop doing poor behaviors to each other? Can we call a truce on the yucky so we can figure out more calmly if we are still compatible or not?"

I don't know if a mixed marriage would work here, where you are open for ENM on your side, while he does polyamory on his side.

But if you can't even TALK about it without derailing into "side issues," it's going to feel overwhelming, and like nothing gets anywhere, with the "yucky pile" just growing bigger and bigger.

I encourage you both to think about couples counseling. I don't know if the goal would be to help you and husband come to a "mixed marriage" agreement that could work for both of you, or to help you break up peacefully, with less hurtful behaviors toward each other. But SOMETHING has to change. This sounds rough.

Galagirl

 

[dance705]

I need some perspective on a situation that has left me pretty devastated. My DH has been carrying on an emotional affair, after I closed our relationship with the woman who used to be his secondary partner, while still insisting he’s done nothing wrong.

From the beginning, we had different understandings of what our relationship was. We agreed to an open marriage— one based on honesty, transparency, and mutual respect. And DH, being poly, instead of open and honest communication, chose secrecy, breaking every commitment to me, while prioritizing his secondary.

This has been an ongoing pattern of deception. He promised to end the relationship with his secondary a couple of months ago, and he didn't. Later, when I made the decision to close our marriage, he promised they would only be friends—until he eventually admitted that they had been having an emotional affair for weeks. He then promised to stop communicating with her during Lent, but in the very first week, when he left town for work and I was alone managing everything, he broke that promise yet again and is now communicating with his secondary, hiding messages and calls on separate platforms so I can't see them. Every time I try to establish a boundary, he agrees, but then breaks it.

One of the most painful betrayals is that he promised he would never fall in love with her—yet here we are. He has admitted to deep feelings for her, all while continuing to break the boundaries we set together. He claims that since he told me he would continue speaking to her after breaking his original promise, it no longer counts as a betrayal. Instead of taking responsibility, he turns it around on me—accusing me of "gaslighting" him, "isolating" him from someone who "cares about him," and making me feel like my pain is unreasonable.

Meanwhile, his secondary has fully engaged in this dynamic, knowing he is married and aware of the hurt this is causing. I have reached out to her, but she refuses to respond.

I know polyamory and ethical non-monogamy are based on honesty, respect, and mutual agreement. But when one partner repeatedly lies, breaks promises, and disregards the other’s emotional well-being, can it ever be ethical? I feel like I’m being told my reality isn’t real and that my devastation is just me “playing games.”

Has anyone else dealt with a situation like this? How do you move forward when trust has been so completely broken?

Update on My Last Post About the Open Marriage:





A lot has happened since I last shared. My husband initially came to the conclusion that he wanted a divorce and was ready to leave the other woman. She did take my call, and we had a difficult conversation. When I asked if she was okay with unraveling our family and the impact on our children, she said she felt bad—but that she was at peace with it because she’s so in love with him.


She also said, “Just because you have children doesn’t mean your feelings are more validated than mine.” When I asked if she was willing to walk away, she said no—because they’re so in love and this “wouldn’t have happened” to me if I hadn’t kept trying to break them up. That level of entitlement and cruelty was shocking.

Despite initially choosing to leave her, he quickly backtracked. He told me he still loves me and wants to work on our marriage—but that he’s not in a place to end things with her. I told him that arrangement is absolutely not something I can live with.


Despite my upset and not consenting he saw her again, and they had sex. I’ve reached out to counselors and am trying to get us into a session, but haven’t heard back yet. We went out for drinks recently, and at one point, he handed me his phone. What I saw in their text messages was devastating and, frankly, unforgivable. Her friends are openly rooting for our marriage to end—one even “voted” that they get married. There were countless texts between them expressing deep love and intense loyalty to one another, and many messages from her that were cruel and disrespectful toward me.


I told him clearly that if he sees her again, I will file for divorce. We ended up having a massive argument (I had been drinking and was emotionally overwhelmed). He keeps saying he’s in love with me, that he doesn’t want a divorce—but also that he’s not ready to let her go.

So now, I’m waiting to see if he actually chooses to end it with her, once and for all.

 

[Burgoo]

I need some perspective on a situation that has left me pretty devastated. My DH has been carrying on an emotional affair, after I closed our relationship with the woman who used to be his secondary partner, while still insisting he’s done nothing wrong.

From the beginning, we had different understandings of what our relationship was. We agreed to an open marriage— one based on honesty, transparency, and mutual respect. And DH, being poly, instead of open and honest communication, chose secrecy, breaking every commitment to me, while prioritizing his secondary.

This has been an ongoing pattern of deception. He promised to end the relationship with his secondary a couple of months ago, and he didn't. Later, when I made the decision to close our marriage, he promised they would only be friends—until he eventually admitted that they had been having an emotional affair for weeks. He then promised to stop communicating with her during Lent, but in the very first week, when he left town for work and I was alone managing everything, he broke that promise yet again and is now communicating with his secondary, hiding messages and calls on separate platforms so I can't see them. Every time I try to establish a boundary, he agrees, but then breaks it.

One of the most painful betrayals is that he promised he would never fall in love with her—yet here we are. He has admitted to deep feelings for her, all while continuing to break the boundaries we set together. He claims that since he told me he would continue speaking to her after breaking his original promise, it no longer counts as a betrayal. Instead of taking responsibility, he turns it around on me—accusing me of "gaslighting" him, "isolating" him from someone who "cares about him," and making me feel like my pain is unreasonable.

Meanwhile, his secondary has fully engaged in this dynamic, knowing he is married and aware of the hurt this is causing. I have reached out to her, but she refuses to respond.

I know polyamory and ethical non-monogamy are based on honesty, respect, and mutual agreement. But when one partner repeatedly lies, breaks promises, and disregards the other’s emotional well-being, can it ever be ethical? I feel like I’m being told my reality isn’t real and that my devastation is just me “playing games.”

Has anyone else dealt with a situation like this? How do you move forward when trust has been so completely broken?

Ethics is a complicated morass of conflicting ideals and primary basics that can often be tilted and swayed to any given partner at any given time. If you really want to go deep into this… message me.

Skip

 

[kdt26417]

Hi dance705,

I'm sorry your husband (his girlfriend too) is being so stubborn. If he would just break up with her, everything would be fine. Yet, he continues to see her, even when doing so puts his marriage in danger. I hope you don't have to divorce him, but if you do, at least you will be free of all the drama.

Sympathetically,
Kevin T.

 

[GalaGirl]

My husband initially came to the conclusion that he wanted a divorce and was ready to leave the other woman.

Despite initially choosing to leave her, he quickly backtracked. He told me he still loves me and wants to work on our marriage—but that he’s not in a place to end things with her. I told him that arrangement is absolutely not something I can live with.

It sounds like a separation and possibly a divorce might need to happen here so BOTH of you can be healthier people. It's not an easy thing to decide, but it might be best in this situation to have a trial separation. Divorce paperwork and things need time to organize, but living separate might help make this rough patch easier to live through on the day-to-day level if you each have your own spaces. You get to have breaks away from it, rest, etc.

I hope you are able to get a counselor so you have some support as you navigate all this.

There were countless texts between them expressing deep love and intense loyalty to one another, and many messages from her that were cruel and disrespectful toward me.

Whatever Red and Red's friends are saying in the texts, to me, what is cruel is that HE handed you his phone so you could see all that. He is sharing stuff without Red's consent, and without Red's friends' consent, and I'm not sure you consented to see all that.

One cannot consent while drunk, and you two were out drinking.

What was even the purpose of oversharing? You have enough going on without seeing all that. What was he even trying to do in showing you that stuff?

The care and keeping (or its ending) is on the participants in the marriage-- you + him, not anyone else. The peanut gallery can say whatever they want. In the end it's still on you + him to decide what to do. Figuring all that out might be easier without "noise from the side" that you don't have to know or care about.

I told him clearly that if he sees her again, I will file for divorce. We ended up having a massive argument. (I had been drinking and was emotionally overwhelmed.) He keeps saying he’s in love with me, that he doesn’t want a divorce—but also that he’s not ready to let her go.

You have now stated your limit. Don't repeat things you already said. Having circular conversations isn't gonna do anything but use up energy you may not have. If circular conversations are TAKING AWAY from your peace and not ADDING to your peace, don't do it. It's ok to have strong personal boundaries with him.

He keeps saying he’s in love with me, that he doesn’t want a divorce—but also that he’s not ready to let her go.

Do his loving words match and come with loving behaviors, or not so much? When words and actions don't match, you could go with actions.

There's also a point where one can't go by feelings, because they are all over the place and everyone is upset. One has to go with the bottom line.

It might be true that he's having lots of conflicted feelings. He may want your help coming to calm. But you might not be willing or able to help him, because you have to calm YOUR OWN SELF first. Even in a plane crash, one puts their own oxygen mask on first. I think you could do that here.

The bottom line is that you are not up for a poly V with him as the hinge and Red as his gf/your metamour. You do not consent to participate in that.

So if he's choosing not to choose, you have to choose your own self. You choose your own well-being and bow out.

I'm sorry, though. It sounds like a lot.

Galagirl

 

[LoveBunny]

I understand you would like to keep your family together, but I don't see how continuing to try to cajole a man who wants another woman into NOT wanting her is going to work. More importantly, what YOU want is a man who chooses you over other women who tempt him, a man who is NOT toggling two partners. You will not get that from this man.

You're blaming & badgering the other woman, but the problem is HIM and YOU. He doesn't want what you want. You want a monogamous or monagam-ish r'ship. He wants to be in love with & available to his other partner while maintaining his family life.

Vetos, rules, ordering him never to fall in love, demanding he give her up....none of this is going to turn him into the partner you actually WANT, a man who isn't emotionally available to love another woman, because he's whole-heartedly taken & puts his marriage first.

Meanwhile, he's acting conflicted & confused, going back & forth, doing things he said he wouldn't do because he WANTS to be the hinge between two women & apparently the drama is worth it to him. If you don't want to be on that ride anymore, it'll be better for your self-esteem (I speak from experience) if you just exit the ride instead of issuing ultimatums. Even if he does (& I don't believe he will) never see his lover again....Do you want to be partnered to a man grieving the one that got away? A man who came this close to leaving you so he could have another woman? How much time & therapy would it take before you'd actually trust him again?

This all just sounds brutal for everyone involved. Let them be together if it's this desperate for them. Imagine all the bandwidth you'll free up for yourself once you're not trying to make this man do what you want anymore. I know it will be hard for you & the kids, but there has to be an end to the misery. I wish you the best, either way.