It sounds like she doesn't REALLY want you to be equal, even if she's trying to convince herself and the rest of you that she does. Maybe she still doesn't comprehend fully what it would mean for you all to be equal and now that those realities are coming to light, she's struggling to actually be on board with it (which is a legitimate feeling for her, but also not fair to expect you to just sit around and wait or comply with whatever she wants).
Yes, that's what I'm a little worried about too. I can easily see anyone telling themselves "Well, of course I want my partners to be equal!" in their mind and then struggling to put it into practice. It is a great ideal, after all. I just need to know if that's what she
really wants.
Thank you for posting and for helping me put words to feelings I was having trouble expressing.
Why is it phrased as 'if she doesn't allow him to' rather than 'if she doesn't want him to'? She isn't in charge of the you and wolf relationship. If wolf has agreed to have a baby with you, then that's between you and wolf. Neither of you need her permission, and if it's an agreement between you and him then her want for it to be otherwise shouldn't trump that.
I was being a little cynical and probably a little bitter, to be honest. I understand that Lioness isn't in charge of
me (or us), but I don't know if Wolf is ready for that. I suppose we'll find out when we have our "alternate relationship configuration" conversation-- which is supposed to take place tonight.
If she no longer wants to continue in a relationship with wolf after that, that's her business, between him and her. Not your business.
I will be hesitant to push for this because the kids matter so much to me. I don't want to cause them the kind of strife that can easily arise from that situation.
In your 'need to be equal', have you specified what that means, in specifics?
I am trying to clearly define what that means to me so that I can share that stance with them. I like your suggestions! They help. Thank you!
Personally I think that Lioness is accustomed to wielding a LOT of power. I sense that she has a package of mental privilege and entitlement to go along with it.
Spork, it is almost eerie how often you hit the nail
right on the head in your posts. This quote above rings so true. I've also bolded and underlined a couple of things that stood out to me below:
I feel that she not only treats LSB as inferior, but possibly Wolf, too. It might just be as much part of how she interacts with the world, as it is how she views those with whom she has relationships. And someone as successful as she is might be used to playing some fairly cut-throat games with other human beings, in order to accomplish her own goals...and she might also be perfectly able to justify it all in her mind, that her way is in fact best for EVERYONE and if they just go along with her dominance and bend in the way she pushes them, eventually they'll see that it was the best way all along.
Lioness is less cut-throat (even in her work), but she
is stubborn. I think it comes from having success by putting her heels down and demanding things be done her way in the past... then when it succeeds she can say "See! My way
was the right way to do things," even when there are plenty of other, equally good solutions that would have worked.
But this is why I suspect that it will be unlikely that Wolf and LSB will take such a major step as having a baby without her consent. Even if she gives it reluctantly. Because if she is in opposition, then that is a BIG stressor to have standing there throwing her voice, weight, and power around. She ~might~ even have the financial capacity to hire someone or get a family member to care for the kids so that she could keep working, and take Wolf's family away from him...which would be brutally painful for both Wolf and LSB on so many levels.
And for the kiddos too, I imagine.
So, much as I want to agree that Wolf and LSB have their own relationship apart and separate and independent from anything involving Lioness, I really don't think that's ever going to truly be the case. She has too much power, in too many ways, to simply be disregarded utterly. And that is before we even come to the issue of LSB and the "not one to roar" thing.
Though I have to agree that it's wonderful that she read the stuff, and is willing to have conversations, and that Wolf is being supportive. I VERY sincerely hope that she's not simply putting on a show to try and keep stringing you along, and continuing in manipulative behaviors.
I'm worried about that too.
With regard to the vacation:
My thinking is that she's exercising her customary "power position" to reduce stress on herself by trying to shut down anything she perceives as increasing stress. Even if it's supposed to be a happy thing, a vacation is a stressful affair to plan, and I'm betting that she is deeply involved in the planning of it. So any hint of anything that could "ruin it" is met with a brick wall. Unfortunately, this means that she is not being considerate (sounds like it's not her strongest suit anyhow) and she is not hearing the voice of someone who is supposed to be a partner, and she is invalidating your feelings, LSB...and that is a sad thing. I think you would understand that sometimes it's too late to change plans, or the situation doesn't allow for it, and that perhaps she could recognize your emotions and offer some comfort and maybe think of ways to make it up to you, which is what I'd be doing.
Yes, that's it exactly. I understand that things may not be adaptable-- and that we probably wouldn't even
want me to go this time because Lioness's family isn't exactly Us friendly, but it would mean everything to me if she would just empathize with me a little. I don't even think she'd have to do anything to "make it up to me;" just a little commiseration would make the sadness/separation/exclusion easier to bear.
Now here is a very serious question and point to ponder. If some compromise is reached for now, where an agreement to try for Baby 4 is planned to happen next spring, I think you've got to be prepared for the possibility of her changing her mind between now and then. Do I understand correctly that your money goes into the household? Do you save some for yourself? Do you have savings, more to the point?
I pay into the mortgage and utilities, and I help with groceries and other household needs too. My
goal is to contribute equally, although I obviously contribute less than Lioness right now. When we go out to eat, Wolf and Lioness often combine their bill and I pay my own.
Which is to say that we have not entirely combined finances at this point. I do still have my own bank account, and my own savings (although not a very large one.) I am preparing myself, both mentally and financially, for a need to leave our shared house-- whether that's sooner or later. Just in case.
Thank you so much for your input, all. You really are a comfort when I feel like I'm barely treading water here. <3
