When the jealousy is too much

[Rachelina]

Hi, I joined this forum in 2010 when my husband first fell in love with another woman. I got excellent support and advice here, and it helped me accept and navigate an extremely painful situation. She moved in, and they had children. We went through some very rocky times, but she stayed for twelve years. Both of us are still very close friends with her and I am happy to have had her in our lives.

My husband has also had three much shorter relationships, which were also somewhat painful, but manageable. The last one was cut short by the pandemic in 2020 and until now there's been nothing. I thought he was past his need for other women.

Now it's happening again, and for some reason, the jealousy and pain are through the roof. Just completely unbearable. I think my reaction may have already made their relationship impossible, so this may be a post-mortem more than anything else, but there's maybe a 5% chance it could be salvaged. I would like to understand why I am reacting this way. Most of me is a firm NO to them having a romantic relationship, but there is a part of me that wants to allow it: for his happiness and the increased energy and passion it brings to our own relationship, and my general wish for there to be more love in the world.

Details: they started texting in December and met three times before he told me about her, in mid-January. They have been moving very slowly and haven't been physical at all other than hugging, but they have already reached the point of saying I love you. She's in an unhappy open marriage that she's trying to get out of, and has a 3 year old.

Since I found out, I've been doing my best to accept the situation. But no matter how much I wrestle with it, the pain is too much. I've barely slept at all for weeks and have been writhing on the floor in pain at times. I am obsessed with the situation and with her. In the beginning, I was always trying to get my husband's phone and read their messages. I have determined to stop, but I still do it sometimes. Everything else in my life has faded into the background and I can't enjoy anything I used to love.

My husband was sad to see me in this state and did his best to reassure me, telling me I am the center of his life and that he will stop seeing her if that is what I really need. But I really wanted to do this for him.

Both of us thought that it might help if I met her. The day she was supposed to come, I cleaned every inch of the house and prepared an elaborate meal. I was terrified, but also thought the pain might finally be alleviated. My nerves were at a breaking point.

When she cancelled at the last minute, I totally lost it. I sent her an angry message, not really for cancelling, but for ignoring two messages I had sent her that day and the day before. As it turned out, she hadn't seen those messages. When she told me that, I apologized, but over the next few days we exchanged more angry messages, her telling me she wanted none of my drama, and me apologizing repeatedly, but also being annoyed that she couldn't get past it. And I still feel genuine remorse that I wrote to her angrily; I've never sent an impulsive angry message like that to anyone in my life. My only defense is insanity.

That was about three weeks ago, and I haven't been in touch with her since. She and my husband keep texting, but somewhat less, and haven't seen each other since Valentine's Day. I finally told him I just can't do this. I'm willing to experience some pain, but there is a limit, and it's affecting my ability to function and care for our son and for his other children that are with us on weekends.

He said OK, but he just wants me to wait a bit to make the final call. He does have to see her two more times, related to an art project they are doing together. The first is tomorrow, and the second is the reception in early April. So he wants to wait until that is over, for us all to decide. Those two times are going to be torture enough. I feel quite sure that I can't endure him seeing her again after that, at least not unless I meet her first, and I don't think either of us really wants to meet the other at this point!

So I don't know if there's anything to be done to help the situation, but I do want to understand why I am insane with jealousy, so much more than in the past. Even though I don't think I can stand for him to be with this woman, I would like to remain open to him seeing different women in the future.

I would love to hear your thoughts. I wish I had remembered about this forum sooner!! I am happy to see that it is still going strong.

 

[Magdlyn]

Hi, welcome back.

The previous times your h has dated other women, and indeed, the time his OSO lived with you and had his children, what helped with your jealousy? What is different now? Why are your coping skills not working?

You must have learned that jealousy pretty much always stems from comparison and fear of loss-- loss of love, of quantity of time spent, of the quality of your date time with husband, or maybe him lacking in attentiveness to the kids and house when he's in NRE. Or you may actually still fear he will leave you entirely, despite his track record of having stayed with you while with others.

Does he neglect you? Do you feel taken for granted?

Excuse me for jumping to conclusions, but your choice to host his newest interest at YOUR own house for your initial meeting, and to have cleaned the house from top to bottom, and prepared an "elaborate" meal, makes it sound like you have low self esteem. Why not just grab a cup of coffee at a local cafe, for an hour? Why this gigantic commitment?

 

[Magdlyn]

Please check out our Golden Nuggets section. Many of the threads there go back to the early days of the forum, but it's been revamped and links have been updated. You might find useful information there.

 

[Rachelina]

Hi, welcome back.

The previous times your h has dated other women, and indeed, the time his OSO lived with you and had his children, what helped with your jealousy? What is different now? Why are your coping skills not working?

You must have learned that jealousy pretty much always stems from comparison and fear of loss. Loss of love, of quantity of time spent, of the quality of your date time with husband, or maybe him lacking in attentiveness to the kids and house when he's in NRE. Or you may actually still fear he will leave you entirely, despite his track record of having stayed with you while with others.

Does he neglect you? Do you feel taken for granted?

Excuse me for jumping to conclusions, but your choice to host his newest interest at YOUR own house for your initial meeting, and to have cleaned the house from top to bottom, and prepared an "elaborate" meal, makes it sound like you have low self esteem. Why not just grab a cup of coffee at a local cafe, for an hour? Why this gigantic commitment?

Hi Magdlyn, thank you for your response. I remember you from 15 years ago!

I'm really not sure what's different - that is what I am trying to figure out. In the past I was able to find peace in the fact that I was helping my husband be fully alive in the way he needs to be. That made the pain worth it. I'm not sure why that's not the case this time.

I don't feel fear of loss. He is very clear that he would never leave me, and because of both of them being busy, he wouldn't likely see her more than once a week for a few hours. I guess I just feel jealous of his feelings toward her, even knowing that a lot of that is NRE, which will pass. And yes, comparison is part of it too. Before this happened, I was quite happy with who I am (and it has taken me years to achieve this), but suddenly I am comparing myself with her and finding myself lacking in all sorts of ways.

Her coming over here was her choice; I would rather have met her somewhere. She always has her 3-year old with her, and we have a big play room with plenty of toys and books, so maybe it made sense for that reason. And since she was coming over, I wanted to make it special. It felt like an expression of love for my husband, and goodwill towards her. But you're also not wrong about the low self-esteem.

 

[GalaGirl]

I don't know if this helps you any.

You write things like this.

• Hi, I joined this forum in 2010 when my husband first fell in love with another woman. I got excellent support and advice here, and it helped me accept and navigate an extremely painful situation.
• My husband has also had three much shorter relationships, which were also somewhat painful but manageable.
• I thought he was past his need for other women. Now it's happening again and for some reason, the jealousy and pain are through the roof. Just completely unbearable.
• Since I found out, I've been doing my best to accept the situation but no matter how much I wrestle with it, the pain is too much. I barely slept at all for weeks and have been writhing on the floor in pain at times. I am obsessed with the situation and with her.
• Everything else in my life has faded into the background and I can't enjoy anything I used to love.
• But I really wanted to do this for him. Both of us thought that it might help if I met her. The day she was supposed to come I cleaned every inch of the house and prepared an elaborate meal. I was terrified but also thought the pain might finally be alleviated. My nerves were at a breaking point.

Why do you "have" to accept the situation?

Do you actually want polyamory, or are you doing it "for him," to prove something, or maybe something else?

Why invite her over to your house, do all this cleaning, and make her a meal? Why not just get coffee out? Why didn't your husband do all the cleaning and cooking and hosting duties, plus cleaning up after the guest left? It's HIS guest coming over to meet you, after all, not YOUR guest. Why do YOU have to all this extra work?

My husband was sad to see me in this state and did his best to reassure me, telling me I am the center of his life and that he will stop seeing her if that is what I really need.

That might seem kind on the surface, but if he sees you in THIS much pain, why doesn't he just end it? DOES he see you, or do you hide your pain from him? Like, he knows you are uncomfortable, but doesn't know you are basically having a nervous breakdown, not sleeping, and writhing on the floor in pain?

Do you need to check yourself into the ER?

When she cancelled at the last minute, I totally lost it. I sent her an angry message, not really for cancelling, but for ignoring two messages I had sent her that day and the day before. But as it turned out, she hadn't seen those messages. When she told me that, I apologized, but over the next few days we exchanged more angry messages, her telling me she wanted none of my drama, and me apologizing repeatedly, but also being annoyed that she couldn't get past it. And I still feel genuine remorse that I wrote to her angrily; I've never sent an impulsive angry message like that to anyone in my life. My only defense is insanity.

It kinda sounds like you whooshed all your pent-up anger at her, when really you are angry at your husband and yourself. Could that be true?

I finally told him I just can't do this. I'm willing to experience some pain, but there is a limit, and it's affecting my ability to function and care for our son, and for his other children, who are with us on weekends.

Why does there have to be pain at all? Do you remember a time in your life when you were pain-free?

Or if there IS going to be pain, why not end it with him and never deal with this sort of thing again?

Even though I don't think I can stand for him to be with this woman, I would like to remain open to him seeing different women in the future.

Gently... I think you could stop. It's like you are trying to be the "cool wife who is cool with all this," rather than admitting your are NOT okay with all this, it hurts you, and you are tired of hurting/being hurt.

You don't have to "prove" your love by doing all this. You know that, right?

Internet people might be able to help with one or two things, but you have a LOT going on. It is dinging you mental health, emotional health, physical health, and then some. I think you need to talk to a counselor, and perhaps a lawyer, for a separation agreement, if you are not ready to divorce. You need to get away from all this stimulus, like taking a boiling over pot off the burner so things can cool and come to calm.

I don't know why you keep doing this/exposing yourself to this. In case these links help you:

Finding a counselor -- https://www.polyfriendly.org

Is this relationship healthy?

https://rhntc.org/sites/default/files/resources/rhntc_hlthy_rlshp_wheel_spectrum_10-13-2022.pdf

I'm sad for you. Your pain is palpable.

Galagirl

 

[GalaGirl]

In the past, I was able to find peace in the fact that I was helping my husband be fully alive in the way he needs to be. That made the pain worth it. I'm not sure why that's not the case this time.

When do you get to be fully alive in the way you need to be, AND get to be pain free? Who helps you?

I don't feel fear of loss. He is very clear that he would never leave me.

Would you ever leave him? Where is your dealbreaker line?

Her coming over here was her choice. I would rather have met her somewhere.

Why does she get to decide this? It's YOUR home. Could I just come over and take all your furniture and money because I just decided that from the sky?

She always has her 3-year old with her, and we have a big playroom with plenty of toys and books, so maybe it made sense for that reason.

So does getting coffee and meeting at the park, so the kid can use the playground/kiddie stuff. It could be the library. Even McDonald's. It doesn't have to happen at your home.

Galagirl

 

[Rachelina]

Why do you "have" to accept the situation? Do you actually want polyamory? Or are you doing it "for him," to prove something, or maybe something else?

Why invite her over to your house, do all this cleaning, and make her a meal? Why not just get coffee out? Why doesn't your husband do all the cleaning and cooking and hosting duties, plus cleaning up after his guest leaves? This is not YOUR guest coming over. Why do YOU have to all this extra work?

That might seem kind on the surface, but if he sees you in THIS much pain why doesn't he just end it? DOES he see you or do you hide your pain from him? Like, he knows you are uncomfortable, but doesn't know you are basically having a nervous breakdown, not sleeping, and writhing on the floor in pain?

Do you need to check yourself into the ER?

It kinda sounds like you whooshed all your pent up anger at HER, when really you are angry at husband and yourself. Could that be true?

Why does there have to be pain at all? Do you remember a time in your life when you were pain-free?

Or, if there IS going to be pain, why not end it with him and never deal with this sort of thing again?

Gently... I think you could stop. It's like you are trying to be the "cool wife who is cool with all this" rather than admitting your are NOT ok with all this, it hurts you, and your are tired of hurting/being hurt.

You don't have to "prove" your love by doing all this. You know that, right?

Internet people might be able to help with one or two things, but you have a LOT going on. It is dinging your mental health, emotional health, physical health and then some. I think you need to talk to a counselor. And perhaps a lawyer for a separation agreement, if you are not ready to divorce. You need to get away from all this stimulus, like taking a boiling over pot off the burner so things can cool and come to calm.

Thank you for all of this, GalaGirl. You are absolutely right about a lot here. Like, that I can just stop. I realized for myself a week or two ago that I just couldn't do it anymore and I told him it had to stop. I don't think either of us thought I would say no. But I did, and that felt very empowering. It didn't really bring peace, though, because part of me really does want to do this! Not to be the cool wife, but for the reasons I mentioned: for his happiness, and the increased energy and passion it brings to our own relationship, and my general wish for there to be more love in the world. That's why I am trying to figure out what went wrong this time, whereas in the past I was able to handle this.

Good point also about my releasing pent-up anger on her, that was probably really anger towards him. He has been so kind to me through this (and in fact we have healed some major problems in our marriage because of it), that it's been hard to get in touch with my anger at him. But at times I do feel it, because you're right, if he sees me like this, why doesn't he stop? But he is stopping now, at least after these two times he needs to see her to fulfill a commitment he made. I know part of him hopes it can be salvaged (and part of me does, as well), but he seems fine with knowing that is probably not going to happen.

Fair point about needing a counselor, but it's just not possible right now, because my insurance doesn't cover it and we are going through a tough time financially, having temporarily (we hope) lost most of our income.

 

[Magdlyn]

Hi Magdlyn, thank you for your response. I remember you from 15 years ago!

I'm really not sure what's different. That is what I am trying to figure out. In the past I was able to find peace in the fact that I was helping my husband be fully alive in the way he needs to be. That made the pain worth it. I'm not sure why that's not the case this time.

Maybe since you're older, your system just can't "do it for him" anymore. Maybe your body is crying out for something more, for YOU. For YOU. You matter. Your needs are just as important as anyone else's here.

Girl, I can imagine it was hard to live with his other partner while she had his kids. Yikes. (Is there any LDS in the family, by any chance?)

I don't feel fear of loss. He is very clear that he would never leave me, and because of both of them being busy, he wouldn't likely see her more than once a week for a few hours. I guess I just feel jealous of his feelings toward her, even knowing that a lot of that is NRE, which will pass. And yes, comparison is part of it too. Before this happened, I was quite happy with who I am (and it has taken me years to achieve this), but suddenly I am comparing myself with her and finding myself lacking in all sorts of ways.

It took you years to be "happy with who you are," but now it's all gone because of him doing a project with someone and getting a crush? How firm was your self-love, after all? Did you get therapy to get happier with who you are, or just work on it alone, maybe using self-help books, talking to friends? From everything you wrote, you're having severe panic attacks and suffering with anxiety and depression. Usually, that calls for professional help. You can't heal if you can't eat or sleep, and just lie on the floor, crying and screaming for hours.

I can relate to your feelings of fear and panic, as I went through that with my ex-h when we first opened and he fell in love. And like you, while I didn't clean the house from top to bottom, or prepare an elaborate meal (and I'd already met his crush more than once at a mutual friend's house), I did do overly-accommodating things to "please my husband," to smooth the path for their romance, and seem to give my blessing, while being deeply miserable on the inside, and then later, falling apart completely. I couldn't get out of bed. I just laid there crying and sometimes when I hoped the kids wouldn't hear, screaming.

I did seek therapy at the time (after vetoing their romance, but consenting to their platonic friendship). I will give it to my ex, he saw the state I was in, and made me an appointment and went with me. Does your h not know what's going on with you?

I did individual counseling for three years, couples counseling for one year (he quit that when the going got tough), and I also went on Zoloft for a year. (A few years after that, we separated, then divorced.)

Her coming over here was her choice; I would rather have met her somewhere.

Why did you put her request before your own desire? You seem to be in the habit of putting other's needs before your own, a LOT. And then you put yourself through bloody hell when doing that makes you feel like shit.

She always has her 3-year old with her, and we have a big playroom with plenty of toys and books, so maybe it made sense for that reason.

She couldn't get a sitter? Even a neighbor teen could've gone to the coffee shop with you all, sat with kid while kid had her snack, then taken her for a walk... It just needed to be an hour...

And since she was coming over, I wanted to make it special. It felt like an expression of love for my husband...

Surely you went too far...

and goodwill towards her.

That didn't work out well. And maybe she decided she really didn't want to come onto "your territory," after all. And why the heck didn't she see your messages?

But you're also not wrong about the low self-esteem.

You can't be happy in polyamory if you have low self-esteem.

Why do you hate her? Why would you prefer he date anyone but her? Is she much younger and prettier than you, for example?

 

[Rachelina]

When do you get to be fully alive in the way you need to be, AND get to be pain free? Who helps you?

Would you ever leave him? Where is your dealbreaker line?

Why does she just decide this? It's YOUR home.

I am fully alive! Being pain free has never been a priority for me. Life is going to involve pain. The first time he fell in love with someone else, it was incredibly painful like this at first -- but someone on here said that it was like swimming in a cold mountain stream -- painful to start but feels great once you are in it. That turned out to be true (mostly!). I am so happy that I stuck with it that time, because his relationship with her enriched all of our lives. That being said, there are limits to how much pain I can stand and still be OK, and I seem to have reached that limit.

I don't think I would leave him. But the dealbreaker would probably be if he continued seeing her after I asked him not to. He has been clear and firm in saying that he would not do this.

I was fine with her coming here, and the timing meant I was the only one home to do the cleaning and cooking.

 

[Rachelina]

Girl, I can imagine it was hard to live with his other partner while she had his kids. Yikes. (Is there any LDS in the family, by any chance?)

It took you years to be "happy with who you are," but now it's all gone because of him doing a project with someone and getting a crush? How firm was your self-love, after all? Did you get therapy to get happier with who you are, or just work on it alone, maybe using self-help books, talking to friends? From everything you wrote, you're having severe panic attacks and suffering with anxiety and depression. Usually, that calls for professional help. You can't heal if you can't eat or sleep, and just lie on the floor, crying and screaming for hours.

You can't be happy in polyamory if you have low self-esteem.

Why do you hate her? Why would you prefer he date anyone but her? Is she much younger and prettier than you, for example?

Haha, no LDS, we were all just crazy. But it worked out mostly OK and I'm happy those kids are in the world.

Right, my self-esteem must not have been all that firm if it could be shaken so much by all of this. It's just a surprise, because I didn't feel this shaken the other times.

"You can't be happy in polyamory if you have low self-esteem." I guess this tells me what I need to work on, though a therapist is not in the cards right now, as I explained to GalaGirl above.

I wouldn't say that I hate her, but I do still feel angry that she was never able to accept my apology. And yes, I do compare myself with her. She's 6 years younger and a lot more beautiful, and that is definitely painful. I never compared myself with the others in quite this way. If I had, I'm sure I could have found myself lacking. But I just didn't, for some reason.

Maybe it's as you say: "Maybe since you're older, your system just can't "do it for him" anymore. Maybe your body is crying out for something more, for YOU. For YOU. You matter. Your needs are just as important as anyone else's here." That is food for thought. Thank you!

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Rachelina,

Sometimes jealousy is a defense mechanism for when you are being treated unfairly. You seem to be telling yourself that the way they were treating you was fair, but I am not so sure about that. For instance, what about the time you were supposed to meet her and she canceled at the last minute? and what about the two messages from you that she ignored? She says she didn't see those messages, but I wonder. And what about the anger she then directed toward you, and her accusation that you were some kind of a drama queen? None of that strikes me as fair. And as for your husband, when you said you couldn't do this anymore, he put you on hold and wanted you to wait in case you would change your mind. That was disrespectful toward you. And you are willing for him to see other women in the first place -- just not this woman. That is fair.

I notice she had you repeatedly apologizing for how you felt. You shouldn't ever have to apologize for your feelings. The fact that you felt you had to do that, suggests to me that she had some kind of power over you, and she was exercising it. I also wonder if there more more things she (and even your husband) had did to you that were unfair, that didn't occur to you to mention here, in the spirit of forgiving and forgetting. That's all well and good, but if the unfair behavior didn't stop, then you should remember it in the spirit of taking care of yourself, and standing up for your rights. I mean you've never been this jealous in the past. There has to be some kind of explanation of what makes this situation different. Jealousy like this doesn't just fall from the sky. That's why I suspect you were being treated unfairly.

Just some thoughts,
Kevin T.

 

[GalaGirl]

Being pain-free has never been a priority for me.

Maybe you could change your mind and make that a new priority, then, to actively reduce stress/pain in your life.

That being said, there are limits to how much pain I can stand and still be OK, and I seem to have reached that limit.

A lot of things in life happen that lead to some pain, but one could SKIP the skippable ones. Here, you could skip a lot of this, especially if you are hitting or are past your limit of tolerance of how much pain you can stand and still be okay.

You are NOT okay. Read that bullet list again. Losing sleep for weeks. Writhing on the floor. A nervous breakdown. These are serious signs that you are unwell.

It didn't really bring peace, though, because part of me really does want to do this! Not to be the cool wife, but for the reasons I mentioned: for his happiness, and the increased energy and passion it brings to our own relationship, and my general wish for there to be more love in the world.

Your logic seems wonky to me. He could be happy without you. You could be happy without him. You could be happy together. "Happy" is not contingent on him dating others.

He could be putting energy and passion into THIS relationship, whether or not he is dating other people.

If you are trying to put "move love in the world," it's got to include YOU, right? Self compassion, self care, all of it. Why are you doing self neglect/self harm/overextending yourself in service to your partner?

If you choose to end your open marriage, for your own well-being, that puts "more love" out there-- more self love for you, rather than self neglect. He'd be free to poly date anyone he wanted to after the breakup. You wouldn't be stopping him. So there'd be "more love" there, too.

I think you could do your soul searching and really examine these reasons. They don't seem solid.

If funds are low, where you can't see a counselor, where's your husband's dating money coming from? Is him having fun more important than your health?

You could think about Recovery International:

Home - Recovery International

Recovery International offers a lifeline for those seeking help with mental health. Learn about our self-help techniques & find local meetings

recoveryinternational.org

and NAMI resources:

https://www.nami.org

That might help you patch the gaps until you can see an individual counselor. You can also call around to colleges. Some have grad students providing the local community with care, under the guidance of a professor, for free or on a sliding scale. The student gets some "in the field" experience credits, the community gets more helpers.

But, if nothing else, STOP. I don't see why he needs "two more times to finish an art project." Your health and well-being matter more than some art thing.

I think you might be "too nice," and your spouse might be taking advantage of that.

As for the GF? Leave her alone. She doesn't have to forgive you for behaving angrily at her, like you did. You apologized. She wants nothing to do with you, so respect that, and let her be.

Galagirl

 

[GalaGirl]

When she cancelled at the last minute, I totally lost it. I sent her an angry message, not really for cancelling, but for ignoring two messages I had sent her that day and the day before. As it turned out, she hadn't seen those messages. When she told me that, I apologized, but over the next few days we exchanged more angry messages, her telling me she wanted none of my drama, and me apologizing repeatedly, but also being annoyed that she couldn't get past it. And I still feel genuine remorse that I wrote to her angrily; I've never sent an impulsive angry message like that to anyone in my life. My only defense is insanity.

It's good you apologized, but this was a lot of poor behavior. You seem to see that, since your only defense was "temporary insanity."

So why are you going along with things that hurt you THIS much and make you temporarily behave out of character? That sounds like a SUPER HIGH degree of stress, so much so, that you exploded at this woman.

She told you her limit and what she needs to get past it. She wanted to be free of you and your drama. Did you respect her limit and leave her alone? Nope. You kept apologizing repeatedly. The one who wasn't letting it go was YOU. Why is that?

Now that this incident is over and you are calmer... could you articulate? Is/was your husband pressuring you to "make nice" with her? Was husband pushing her to meet you and "make nice" with you? Sometimes metas get upset with each other, when really, it's the hinge not hinging well and kind of pitting one against the other.

I wouldn't say that I hate her, but I do still feel angry that she was never able to accept my apology.

You did your part on your side and apologized. Why does she HAVE to accept your apology on her side? You accused her of things and spewed a bunch of angry stuff at her, out of the sky. She might have decided to not have anything to do with you anymore, and rightly so, if you behaved poorly towards her. She's not dating you. She doesn't have to know you.

You have to live with having behaved this way... But for how long does it actually matter? Husband is going to dump her after 2 more times for the art project. So how much does it actually matter if she accepts your apology or not? You and she won't be around each other anymore. Perhaps that is best.

I think your bigger problems are with your husband. He wants polyamory. You don't. Or you might, in other circumstances. You just don't like doing polyamory with HUSBAND, because you don't like how HE does it. Could that be true?

The world doesn't revolve around this husband.

You matter too. In fact, I think you matter FIRST, to yourself. You can love him a lot. He can be #2 on your list. But you have to love yourself first, in the #1 spot. So, you can say to husband, "I love you a lot. But NO, not even for you will I do stuff I don't want or that hurts me. That's asking too much."

You deserve to be at peace and happy, too.

Galagirl

 

[Rachelina]

It's good you apologized, but this was a lot of poor behavior. You seem to see that, since your only defense was "temporary insanity."

So... why are you going along with things that hurt you THIS much, and make you temporarily behave out of character? That sounds like a SUPER HIGH degree of stress, so much so, that you exploded at this woman.

She told you her limit and what she needed to get past it. She wanted to be free of you and your drama. Did you respect her limit and leave her alone? Nope. You kept apologizing repeatedly. The one who wasn't letting it go was YOU. Why is that?

Now that this incident is over and you are calmer... could you articulate? Is/was your husband pressuring you to "make nice" with her? Was husband pushing her to meet you and "make nice" with you? Sometimes metas get upset with each other, when really, it's the hinge not hinging well and kind of pitting one against the other.

You did your part on your side and apologized. Why does she HAVE to accept your apology on her side? You accused her of things, and spewed a bunch of angry stuff at her, out of the sky. She might decide to not have anything to do with you anymore, and rightly so, if you behaved poorly towards her. She's not dating you. She doesn't have to know you.

You have to live with having behaved this way... but for how long does it actually matter? Husband is going to dump her after 2 more times for the art project. So how much does it actually matter if she accepts your apology or not? You and she won't be around each other anymore. Perhaps that is best.

I think your bigger problems are with your husband. He wants polyamory. You don't. Or you might, in other circumstances. You just don't like doing polyamory with HUSBAND, because you don't like how HE does it. Could that be true?

The world doesn't revolve around this husband.

You matter too. In fact, I think you matter first, to yourself. You can love him a lot. He can be #2 on your list. But you have to love yourself first, in the #1 spot. So, you can say to husband, "I love you a lot. But NO, not even for you will I do stuff I don't want or that hurts me. That's asking too much."

You deserve to be at peace and happy, too.

Thank you, GalaGirl.

About the repeated apologies, that was just in the course of one day, right after it happened, and was in response to her angry messages. I absolutely am leaving her alone. We have not communicated in three weeks and I won't be contacting her again. Being angry at her for not forgiving me was in the context of her continuing to date my husband. But yeah, since that's not going to happen, it doesn't matter if she forgives me or not.

And no, it wasn't my husband pressuring me to make nice with her. I genuinely felt terrible about it, because that is not something that I would ever normally do, and I know it made her feel awful.

I especially appreciate the last part of your response, starting from, "You matter, too." This validates my decision and helps me stay strong in it.

 

[LoveBunny]

Maybe in the past 15 years, you've changed, grown, more fully become who you are. And the person you are becoming is NOT interested in being with a partner whose attentions are divided between multiple women, invested in other women's children.

I did poly in my early 20's, again in my early 40's... But about 5 years ago, when I yet again fell for a poly person, I found myself especially miserable. It wasn't that poly hadn't come with some serious messiness before, but at least I was able to enjoy it sometimes. But now, nearing age 50, I came to a point where I could no longer deny that what I wanted was one fulfilling partner who was fulfilled by me.

When that relationship fell apart, I cried for a year straight. Then I got into an amazing monogamous relationship that makes what I had with poly guy seem shallow and threadbare.

In short, you have been "settling." Your whole being is crying out that you don't want this. Why are you ignoring your own needs and desires? You want a man that can sustain his energy towards you without the need for multiple partners. It's okay to want that, and to not settle for less.

Best of luck.

 

[Rachelina]

Hello Rachelina,

Sometimes jealousy is a defense mechanism for when you are being treated unfairly. You seem to be telling yourself that the way they were treating you was fair, but I am not so sure about that. For instance, what about the time you were supposed to meet her and she canceled at the last minute? and what about the two messages from you that she ignored? She says she didn't see those messages, but I wonder. And what about the anger she then directed toward you, and her accusation that you were some kind of a drama queen? None of that strikes me as fair. And as for your husband, when you said you couldn't do this anymore, he put you on hold and wanted you to wait in case you would change your mind. That was disrespectful toward you. And you are willing for him to see other women in the first place -- just not this woman. That is fair.

I notice she had you repeatedly apologizing for how you felt. You shouldn't ever have to apologize for your feelings. The fact that you felt you had to do that, suggests to me that she had some kind of power over you, and she was exercising it. I also wonder if there more more things she (and even your husband) had did to you that were unfair, that didn't occur to you to mention here, in the spirit of forgiving and forgetting. That's all well and good, but if the unfair behavior didn't stop, then you should remember it in the spirit of taking care of yourself, and standing up for your rights. I mean you've never been this jealous in the past. There has to be some kind of explanation of what makes this situation different. Jealousy like this doesn't just fall from the sky. That's why I suspect you were being treated unfairly.

Just some thoughts,
Kevin T.

Hi, Kevin. Thank you so much for this thoughtful reply. It made me realize how complicated jealousy is. It's not just one thing. It definitely has to do with comparison, but there's a lot more to it. And your reply has given me a lot of food for thought. I think you are right, that there has been some unfairness. It's a fact that he was texting her hundreds of times a day for weeks, and had seen her three times, before ever telling me of her existence. And when he was with her, I was home taking care of the children, with no idea what he was up to. Of course, he eventually told me, but the dishonesty of the initial period still stings like hell when I think of it.

And then, when I did get his phone, I found that he'd characterized me inaccurately and unfairly at times. For example, he made it sound like I'm just totally A-OK with anything he wants to do with other women, while in fact it's more complicated. I am open to him being with other women, but with some reservations and conditions, honesty being one of them! He also shared intimate details of my life (getting some of them wrong) and that felt terrible. Granted, I shouldn't have been reading his messages. But that is one difference between this time and all the other times. In the past, I either didn't try, or wasn't successful.

And then, yeah, the matter of the angry messages and her implying that I am a drama queen, when in fact that's the exact opposite of who I am. Thanks for seeing that. And him wanting to wait and see if I changed my mind -- yes. That feels disrespectful. I have to wait a month to get any sense of closure.

Thanks again for your insights.

 

[Magdlyn]

About the repeated apologies, that was just in the course of one day, right after it happened, and was in response to her angry messages. I absolutely am leaving her alone. We have not communicated in three weeks, and I won't be contacting her again. Being angry at her for not forgiving me was in the context of her continuing to date my husband. But yeah, since that's not going to happen, it doesn't matter if she forgives me or not.

And no, it wasn't my husband pressuring me to make nice with her. I genuinely felt terrible about it, because that is not something that I would ever normally do,

What is "normal" for you, though? It sounds like it's normal for you to accept scraps of attention as spillover from husband's NRE, his joy in fathering another woman's kids, etc., while you hold in your need for being appreciated and loved for who you are, and acting like a slave to husband and his gf du jour, cleaning, cooking, bending over backwards. That's sad. It's healthy that your psyche finally reached a breaking point. And now you're looking at the consequences of that.

You deserve love for YOU, not for aiding and abetting husband's other romantic relationships. It sounds like you've bottled this up for over TEN YEARS. And now your body is rebelling. You're non-functional. You're a screaming quivering mass on the floor.

You finally "remembered" this forum, to come here and seek help.

Personally, I highly dislike the "advice" you got back in 2010, when someone told you to jump into the ice-cold water of polyamory. Poly shouldn't feel like a polar plunge. It should feel like slipping into a rose-scented bathtub, if it's right for you.

I've been rereading older threads lately (as a mod...) and I believe polyamory expectations have evolved since then, and certainly since the 1990s. Back then, people were much much more into meeting their metamours, doing quads and triads, doing kitchen-table poly, wanting their metas to be their friends. There was very little mention of parallel poly, or of drawing personal boundaries.

Personally, I have never felt it "necessary" to meet my metamours in order to feel better about my partners poly-dating. I don't have to have anything to do with my metas. I expect my partners to develop and practice good hinging skills.

I might meet a metamour if they live nearby, if my partner has been dating them for several months to a year, and getting along well with them, trusted and true and healthy. Otherwise, I just let go, and only need to know what day and time my partner will be otherwise occupied, and that they are practicing safer sex.

My bf Aries was new to poly when we met three years ago. He WANTS to tell me more about the people he dates, to share his joy and his troubles, to get my experienced feedback, to just enjoy the retelling of a good date. I usually ask him not to share. That's all his business, not mine. Our time together should be about us, not about him telling me about this or that woman he is newly dating, or falling in love with. I have more compersion if he doesn't overshare.

He's still got kid in a candy store syndrome, and I honestly don't have the patience for listening to his NRE vents. lol

My gf Pixi, on the other hand, was more experienced in poly when we met, and I was the one that was a kid in a candy store. She just let me have free rein of all of that, told me it was my business, not hers, and we focused on US when we were together.

All this to say, NO, you do not need to be meeting your metas, cleaning the house from top to bottom, cooking elaborate meals for these women, making sure her toddler is entertained. And I see you are feeling "less than," comparing yourself to a younger woman, whom you consider to be more conventionally attractive. So maybe the meticulous cleaning and complicated cooking was an attempt to show your value to your husband and the new girl, despite feeling "less than." No wonder you're totally losing your shit.

I especially appreciate the last part of your response, starting from "You matter, too." This validates my decision and helps me stay strong in it.

You matter. Your feelings matter. Your needs and desires are valid. Get up and do something super nice for yourself. Get a pedi. Buy a cute new purse. Something! If you're not nice to yourself, why expect others to be? Set the bar higher than hell.

 

[Rachelina]

Maybe in the past 15 years, you've changed, grown, more fully become who you are. And the person you are becoming is NOT interested in being with a partner whose attentions are divided between multiple women, invested in other women's children.

I did poly in my early 20's, again in my early 40's...but about 5 years ago, when I yet again fell for a poly person, I found myself especially miserable. Not that poly hadn't come with some serious messiness before, but at least I was able to enjoy it sometimes. But now, nearing age 50, I came to a point where I could no longer deny that what I wanted was one fulfilling partner who was fulfilled by me.

When that r'ship fell apart, I cried for a year straight.Then I got into an amazing monogamous r'ship that makes what I had with poly guy seem shallow & threadbare.

In short, you have been "settling." Your whole being is crying out that you don't want this. Why are you ignoring your own needs and desires?
You want a man that can sustain his energy towards you without the need for multiple partners.

It's ok to want that, and to not settle for less.

Best of luck.

Thank you so much for this! Wow, your story does parallel mine. It's so good to know this does happen - that once you have done poly it doesn't mean that you will always be able to do it. "Maybe in the past 15 years, you've changed, grown, more fully become who you are." Yes, I think this is exactly the case. Thank you so much for this perspective.

And yet!! "Your whole being is crying out that you don't want this." It's actually only about 98% of me.....there's still a tiny part that wants to make it work. I guess I need to figure out what that's about. But the majority of me is clear about what I need.

 

[GalaGirl]

I especially appreciate the last part of your response, starting from "You matter, too." This validates my decision and helps me stay strong in it.

You def matter too.

You buried the lead there. Your husband is doing VERY poor behaviors. You are angry about being treated like this and rightly so. You deserve WAY better treatment than this. I kind of had a feeling. This is why I guessed that you might not want any polyamory. Or maybe you would... but just not with HIM, because HOW he practices polyamory really stinks for you.

It is not respectful and it dings you over and over. It's not kind or loving behavior.

I think you are struggling with, "How can someone I love treat me so bad? How can someone say they love me and then treat me in less than loving ways?"

You might also be struggling with having learned all this from peeking in his phone. You did that without his consent. But then he told this woman private things about you, without your consent.

Two wrongs don't make a right. But now that you HAVE this info... What to do? You can't feel safe knowing he does this kind of thing behind your back.

And yet!! "Your whole being is crying out that you don't want this." It's actually only about 98% of me... There's still a tiny part that wants to make it work. I guess I need to figure out what that's about. But the majority of me is clear about what I need.

Here's a different thought. Do you actually need to figure what that 2% is about right NOW? Pay more attention to the 98% of you that does NOT want this any more. Not with him.

That means he stops poly dating-- no polyamory at all. Or you break up with him. Whichever way lets you be free of this wonky poly and this continuing damage from it.

And then, when I did get his phone, I found that he'd characterized me inaccurately and unfairly at times. For example, he made it sound like I'm just totally A-OK with anything he wants to do with other women, while in fact it's more complicated -- I am open to him being with other women, but with some reservations and conditions, honesty being one of them!

Jealousy is a flag emotion. It signals all the other feelings going on underneath it-- fear, anger, etc.

You cannot feel safe with a man who is dishonest and treats you poorly. You cannot feel safe with a man who lies to women about you being cool with it just to get in their pants. He uses people -- you and the other women.

That thought may be a hard thing to reflect on, because you love him. But sit with it. You are the one there. Evaluate your situation. You don't sound like you are in a healthy relationship.

https://rhntc.org/sites/default/files/resources/rhntc_hlthy_rlshp_wheel_spectrum_10-13-2022.pdf

Home

Healthy relationships for young adults can be confusing. Love is more than just the way you feel, and we're here to help.

www.loveisrespect.org

I believe your body just cannot take any more of this, and it's breaking down. You are well past your limit. Things need to change in order for you to get well.

Do you get enough time away from the children? Do YOU get some child-free time, too? Not just him?

You definitely need more rest. You may also need a doc check-up. Having nervous breakdowns is no joke.

Set the bar higher than hell.

I'm with Mags there. Raise the bar on your personal standards. You put up with a lot of pain from poor treatment. Why? You deserve to be treated WELL. You deserve to be loved and cherished.

YOU get to decide what you will and will not put up with in a relationship. If your spouse no longer makes the cut for what you seek in a healthy partner (you DO want healthy relationships, right?), it is time to drop him and protect your kid(s) from growing up around this and thinking this is normal behavior. They don't need to grow up to be the new users, or the new ones being used, because they end up thinking that is how one behaves in a grown-up relationship.

I know a divorce isn't something one does at the snap of a finger. You have to talk to a lawyer and figure out all your options. Maybe talk to a counselor so you have support. You might need your own checking account, if you don't have one already. Your own job. Many steps. But for your own health and well-being, and then that of your kid(s), you may have to think about it.

In case it helps you start thinking:

Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Feeling unhappy in or unsure about your relationship? Having problems you don’t know how to work through, or don’t even know if you should? We’ll talk you through making these choices, including how-to’s on conflict resolution and doing breakups better.

www.scarleteen.com

I hope I'm wrong, but I kind of have this feeling he might be tempted to lie to you after seeing the other woman the next 2 times, like, he'd say he dumped her, and then just keep seeing her in secret, or he'd keep moving goalposts and talking around you-- always, "one more thing before he can [...]."

You already know he tells lies. You already know he dings you a lot. It's okay to vote "no confidence" in him actually keeping his word. Remember your dealbreaker line.

That being said -- there are limits to how much pain I can stand and still be OK, and I seem to have reached that limit.

I don't think I would leave him -- but the dealbreaker would probably be if he continued seeing her after I asked him not to. He has been clear and firm in saying that he would not do this.

Protect yourself and the kid(s).

But man... this just stinks! You have my sympathies.

Galagirl

 

[Magdlyn]

GG is stressing counseling, lawyers, divorce. I know you've already said money is tight. You can work on getting your ducks in a row at your own pace. First things first. Take care of yourself. Speak up for yourself. Take yourself out on dates and do some nice things for yourself. Do as much as you can to nourish yourself.

Do you have your own bank account with an emergency fund?

The weather is warming. Take a walk. Breathe. Walking will lower your stress levels. Eat something healthy, even a yogurt and some blueberries. Drink water. Start with the basics.

I'd say you could go see your GP on your insurance and talk about being cheated on and what it's reduced you to. It's possible for an MD to hear how you are suffering and prescribe an anti-depressant, if needed.

It can be hard to get time to yourself, with your son (how old is he?) and what sounds like those kids his ex-poly partner had while she was living with you(!) on the weekends. Make time. At least stop doing too much for your husband, HIS kids (no matter how much you love them), and his gf du jour. Leave your h with HIS kids on the weekends and go do something fun, for goodness sake.

Women kill themselves doing too much for others. Don't martyr yourself for this man.