Who Writes This Sh*t?

opalescent

Active member
I also found the articles just appalling and discouraging. This is what attempts to pass as good relationship advice? And encouraging people to have no feelings - which we know is generally foolish and impossible - is just irresponsible. And what the hell is 'cuffing' and 'cuffing season'?

I do think that the whole cuddle buddy thing does point to the lack of touch in Western society and how touch starved we can be. But I don't know how to address this in ways that would be comfortable for most people. I don't get cuddle buddies. Cuddling is something I do with lovers. It's not always sexual but it is always romantic for me. Other people have broader capabilities to accept cuddling from non-romantic connections. And I think that is a fine thing. But it does not work for me. I cannot separate romantic feelings from cuddling. I love hugs from friends and but cuddling with friends feels very uncomfortable to me. I miss it terribly when I do not have a lover but cuddling with friends does not address that particular touch void.
 

ICanBeStunning

New member
Yes, UH stands for unicorn hunters.

I've had set limits on relationships when I was way too busy with classes, and home life to handle properly nurturing a relationship. I may again with grad school. There's just something hostile about the way these articles advise you to treat others.

I think it's one thing to say, I can only have space for this right now. This seems completely different. In my experience it expands beyond other 20 somethings. For me it's not the time constraint, but it's the attitudes people take on about it.
 

River

Active member
I don't get cuddle buddies. Cuddling is something I do with lovers. It's not always sexual but it is always romantic for me. Other people have broader capabilities to accept cuddling from non-romantic connections. And I think that is a fine thing. But it does not work for me. I cannot separate romantic feelings from cuddling. I love hugs from friends and but cuddling with friends feels very uncomfortable to me. I miss it terribly when I do not have a lover but cuddling with friends does not address that particular touch void.

I used to be VERY uncomfortable being naked around other people in groups. Then one day I found myself at a gathering in which many people were naked together outdoors. So I tried it... and broke through something ... over a period of days. It felt very liberating and healing / opening to do so, and I'm super glad I did so. Then, over the year, I would frequently be naked with groups of people at a large public hot tub at a spa ... and also at outdoor hotsprings. Now being naked with groups of people feels quite natural and normal for me -- in the right contexts. It isn't associated with sex or romance. It's just simple old nakedness.

Cuddling with platonic friends may never be something which is widely accepted as perfectly normal and natural (although I think it would be wonderful if it did). But many of those who have found our way into such platonic cuddling feel similar to how I felt upon getting over my discomfort with public nakedness -- an exhilarating feeling of liberation at first, followed by a feeling-thought which if spoken may go like this.: "This is so utterly natural and wholesome and good; it's a shame others feel inhibited by it or uninterested in it. It may do them some good."

As for associating cuddling with romantic feelings ... you know, I wonder if as a culture we're maintaining too sharp a distinction between "romantic" feelings and behaviors and "platonic" ones? At best, when I cuddle with a close friend, I experience much of the same warm inner glow of tenderness and affection as I do with a lover-partner, only with the platonic friend that energy does not get translated into ... well, sex.

In any case, I know I'm a bit of an adventurer (and very curioius!) when it comes to intimate relating. I could also spend half an hour or an hour silently gazing into the eyes of a very close friend -- or a new acquaintance -- (a practice the Sufi poet Rumi is thought to have engaged in with his muse, Shams). -- http://www.innertraditions.com/the-spiritual-practices-of-rumi.html
 

opalescent

Active member
I used to be VERY uncomfortable being naked around other people in groups. Then one day I found myself at a gathering in which many people were naked together outdoors. So I tried it... and broke through something ... over a period of days. It felt very liberating and healing / opening to do so, and I'm super glad I did so. Then, over the year, I would frequently be naked with groups of people at a large public hot tub at a spa ... and also at outdoor hotsprings. Now being naked with groups of people feels quite natural and normal for me -- in the right contexts. It isn't associated with sex or romance. It's just simple old nakedness.

Cuddling with platonic friends may never be something which is widely accepted as perfectly normal and natural (although I think it would be wonderful if it did). But many of those who have found our way into such platonic cuddling feel similar to how I felt upon getting over my discomfort with public nakedness -- an exhilarating feeling of liberation at first, followed by a feeling-thought which if spoken may go like this.: "This is so utterly natural and wholesome and good; it's a shame others feel inhibited by it or uninterested in it. It may do them some good."

As for associating cuddling with romantic feelings ... you know, I wonder if as a culture we're maintaining too sharp a distinction between "romantic" feelings and behaviors and "platonic" ones? At best, when I cuddle with a close friend, I experience much of the same warm inner glow of tenderness and affection as I do with a lover-partner, only with the platonic friend that energy does not get translated into ... well, sex.

In any case, I know I'm a bit of an adventurer (and very curioius!) when it comes to intimate relating. I could also spend half an hour or an hour silently gazing into the eyes of a very close friend -- or a new acquaintance -- (a practice the Sufi poet Rumi is thought to have engaged in with his muse, Shams). -- http://www.innertraditions.com/the-spiritual-practices-of-rumi.html

I've thought a lot about cuddling and romantic or sexual touch, in large part because I belong to several communities that really emphasize touch. I have come to the tentative conclusion that my distaste for platonic cuddling has to do with how I experience touch in general. I have very strong personal boundaries, a very defined sense of my 'space' and 'not my space'. I seem to have been born this way. My parents have many stories from when I was very young about how picky I was about who I wanted to hold me. My parents never made me stay with someone I did not want holding me. I also have had the sadly rare experience of having my boundaries respected by parents and other authorities. (It breaks my heart how rare this is.)

Touch feels intrusive to me, even when that touch is wanted. I have to mentally and emotionally welcome people into my space when I touch, or am touched. I usually have to know someone at least a little bit before I want to hug them, or be hugged. While I can tolerate being hugged by strangers - I understand they usually mean mean well - it's never been enjoyable for me. They feel like invaders to my space - nice invaders who don't mean any harm but invaders none the less. And unwanted touch feels like an invasion - physically, mentally, emotionally. I am good at enforcing my boundaries and this helps prevent experiencing much unwanted touch. Mostly I deal with people who like to hug everyone and who don't always get how unpleasant an unwelcome hug can be. Most learn and respect that difference once they know it is a thing. Some just feel rejected no matter how I explain so I have to let them remain in their rejection. (It was very helpful to me to realize that I can feel very rejecting because of my strong boundaries around touch and that I have few problems enforcing those boundaries by rejecting someone's offer of touch. I don't enforce my boundaries any less but I do so in a more explanatory, tactful way.) And my dominant love language is quality time - physical touch and gifts are my least used love languages.

So the idea of cuddling someone I don't know is really hard for me to wrap my head around. I don't even like hugging people I don't know. Intellectually I can get it. I know lots of people who enjoy cuddle parties and platonic cuddling. But at any deep level, my understanding just fails. Most casual touch in Western society (hugging, etc.) I experience as unwanted contact from people who I have agreed to be in my space.

I know I have very strong boundaries - I think this is a good thing that has prevented much heartache for me. But it also makes touching and being touched very fraught for me. Who I let in, who I mingle physicality with deeply tied to who I want to exchange energy with. Touch with people I don't know well enough is deeply draining. I intellectually understand that others can find it filling instead of draining.

For me, being naked and feeling comfortable in that nakedness does not impact how I experience touch or make cuddling with friends more appealing. I do know many people who find being naked and comfortable unclothed among others is a freeing and liberating experience. I am comfortable being naked in venues where that is an option. I don't need to be naked but will happily do so if that makes sense. I don't mind if people see me naked. I can see how being comfortable naked might impact how some would feel about cuddling but for me it makes no difference. (I also really, really don't get naked, platonic cuddling.)

The intimacy of friendship and that of romantic intimacy (and by intimacy I refer to more than sex but rather the whole emotional, mental and intellectual connection) both feed my soul, and I need both to thrive. However, they feel very different to me. They don't shade into each other for me internally. Many of my lovers, most actually, have been friends first (and have stayed friends after breakup). But that romantic connection, and sexual connection too, 'switches' on and off for me.

Finally, I have experienced the intimacy of eye gazing. I find it to be a bit artificial. In my experience, while eye gazing does produce a feeling of intimacy and closeness, unless those feelings are supported by other actions of closeness and getting to know someone, that feeling rapidly fades. I think it is a shortcut to intimacy that can be helpful but also ephemeral.
 

River

Active member
So the idea of cuddling someone I don't know is really hard for me to wrap my head around."

Boy, I'm with you on that one, for sure. I could cuddle with a close platonic friend, but the idea of cuddling with someone I don't know? I don't think so! That's perhaps the main reason I doubt I'd ever seriously consider going to one of those "cuddle parties" -- where, apparently, folks will cuddle with strangers(!). Weird!

"Touch with people I don't know well enough is deeply draining. I intellectually understand that others can find it filling instead of draining.

I'm pretty sure I'm close to you in this respect in some sense. I would NOT want to cuddle (or share an extended hug) with anyone I don't know well enough and like a lot -- and trust. But I could probably spend a couple of hours with someone and decide -- if they are very warm and kind and non-judgmental -- that I know them well enough to have an extended time hug ... and if that went well I'd not be far from wanting or being able to comfortably cuddle with them. So it's all about the person and their energy. If it is safe and warm and good and lovely, bring it on! But let's first get to know one another some.

For me, being naked and feeling comfortable in that nakedness does not impact how I experience touch or make cuddling with friends more appealing. I do know many people who find being naked and comfortable unclothed among others is a freeing and liberating experience. I am comfortable being naked in venues where that is an option. I don't need to be naked but will happily do so if that makes sense. I don't mind if people see me naked. I can see how being comfortable naked might impact how some would feel about cuddling but for me it makes no difference. (I also really, really don't get naked, platonic cuddling.)

Heh! I've never experienced naked platonic cuddling, which for me is the zenith of world-stretching explorations out on the platonic cuddling edge. I'd LOVE to experience that -- but only with the closest possible platonic friend. But I'm sure we'd progress to it slowly, gradually, with cuddling in shorts being a necessary step along the way.

Anyway, my mention of nakedness with others in groups was only meant to provide something like an analogy of human situations and experiences -- in which a kind of crossing can be made, for those who are willing and interested in making such crossings. As I said, being naked in groups was once a very uncomfortable THOUGHT or image for me to consider as a possibility (before I had such an experience). Then it gradually became natural and easy -- in the right sort of contexts: e.g., nude beach, public hot tub, hot springs.... The point is that cuddling with a platonic friend is a stretch for most of us in "this culture," and that once we've stretched to include it it GENERALLY becomes less of a stretch. This is not to say that everyone SHOULD stretch in this way. I don't think that's the case. But those who are willing to stretch can -- I think -- derive certain almost ineffable benefits from doing so.
 

River

Active member
I'm gradually discovering that I don't seem to have a sharp line separating or distinguishing my closest, most loving platonic friendships and "romantic" partners, and that "romantic partners" for me are mostly just very, very good/close friends with whom I also share sexual intimacy (and cuddling, etc.).

The only difference for me between my dearest, closest possible platonic friend and a lover / romantic partner would be the sexual component -- as far as I can discern at the moment.

BUT -- and it's an important but -- I've never experienced a platonic friendship as intimate and close as I imagine I could -- in theory -- have. That is, I've come close to but never quite traversed into an intimate platonic friendship which was just as intensely loving and intimate as the loverly relationships I've known.

I hope not to die never having known what that would be like.
 

FallenAngelina

Well-known member
I suppose I'll have to carve out some free time to write one myself, and put it up on the web somewhere.

Yes, be the change you want to see in the world, baby! You've written the whole website out right in this thread already. All you need are some sweet cuddle pix.
 

River

Active member
Yes, be the change you want to see in the world, baby! You've written the whole website out right in this thread already. All you need are some sweet cuddle pix.

Okay, google "sweet cuddle pix".

For many, many reasons... many of us have not had very deeply engaged and loving platonic friendships -- of the kind which creates just (or at least nearly) as strong and precious a bond of connection as we have experience with our best romantic partners. Many, actually -- as it seems to me -- (and especially probably men in certain cultures such as the dominant culture in the USA) have only really known "buddies," the "casual friendship" analogue to "casual dating" or even "casual sex".... It may not be "no strings attached," but it may be nearly so. Fair weather friends. Activity buddies ... but no one to bear your soul to, open up with, trust deeply ... risk tears and laughter with.... The Whole Shebang.

To me, a close friend -- a truly and very close friend -- is in more ways than not just like a spouse, a lover (of the most loving and intimate of kinds)..., and I wonder how many people have such friends. I've only perhaps skirted around the edges of it -- but my culture has taught me that such friendships are not valid, do not exist, are only make-believe..., so it's perhaps no wonder that I've not quite experienced this in its fullest potential -- though I've been close! (I've always had "trust issues" after all.)
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Staff member
Re: http://www.lovepanky.com/flirting-f...buddy-rules-to-avoid-turning-into-fck-buddies ... haha, love the part about "NO FEELINGS." Suuuure, no problem ...

Re: http://www.lovepanky.com/flirting-flings/wild-secrets/signs-of-sexual-attraction ... which I followed from the first link. #5: You're all hot and bothered! LOLOL ...

Re: "Hand check. Keep your hands above the blankets at all times." Those sneaky hands, I tell ya. Hey hands! get back above the blankets.

Re: http://elitedaily.com/dating/cuddle-buddy-ad-craigslist/1286841/ ... "Believe me, I won't fall in love with you." Suuuuuure ...

I did notice the concept of "cuddle buddies are for the winter season" ... strange idea.

Re (from opalescent):
"And what the hell is 'cuffing' and 'cuffing season?'"

Haha, it seems we have missed the boat. Winter, I assume. Although what winter's got to do with cuffing is beyond me. :D

I'm not opposed to cuddling, as long as I feel I can emotionally trust the person I'm cuddling with. But I admit I've become comfortable with "more formal relations."

One example of physical bonding I've seen was portrayed on the TV series "Sons of Anarchy." These are members of a motorcycle club and they are extremely tough guys. Yet they often hug each other. Say "I love you brother." They even kiss each other sometimes. [shrug] Don't know how relevant it is, but I thought I'd mention it.
 

vinsanity0

Active member
I'm very touchy feely with people I am romantic with. This whole cuddling a platonic friend? Nope, would not work for me...unless it was temporary. In other words, I couldn't just cuddle with a girl if I liked them enough to be friends. There would have to be some reason for me to not want to have a romantic relationship with them. I can't think what that would be. In the end, if we are cuddling, it will lead me to want sex and romance.

I'm not going to die from not cuddling all the time.

I will say that there is a lot of the cuddle buddy thing going on in my area. It is an actual thing, maybe slighy more than casual. So not everyone uses those adjectives to describe it...lol.
 

River

Active member
There would have to be some reason for me to not want to have a romantic relationship with them. I can't think what that would be. In the end, if we are cuddling, it will lead me to want sex and romance.

This got me to thinking about something which is not popular to think about. Why do we so closely associate "romantic" feelings with sexual intimacy? Must it be so? Why? ... those kind of questions.

I have friends I just totally adore, and could adore even more if I let myself -- with whom there is not really a sexual interest or desire. But with whom I could certainly imagine cuddling with -- if indeed I have not already.
In more ways than not these have the basic shape and feel of "romantic," at least in relation to how much love and trust and appreciation there is. And commitment, too. I mean, I have to work through shit with them like I do in romantic relationships....

I'm not judging anybody or anything here..., just trying to keep an interesting question alive and vital -- at least for me if for nobody else.
 

kdt26417

Official Greeter
Staff member
I tend to go by the dictionary, but I know that's not your cup of tea.

From https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/romantic ...

  • (chiefly historical) Of a work of literature, a writer etc.: being like or having the characteristics of a romance, or poetic tale of a mythic or quasi-historical time; fantastic. [from 17th c.]
  • (obsolete) Fictitious, imaginary. [17th-20th c.]
  • Fantastic, unrealistic (of an idea etc.); fanciful, sentimental, impractical (of a person). [from 17th c.] "Mary sighed, knowing her ideals were far too romantic to work in reality."
  • Having the qualities of romance (in the sense of something appealing deeply to the imagination); invoking on a powerfully sentimental idea of life; evocative, atmospheric. [from 17th c.]
  • Pertaining to an idealised form of love (originally, as might be felt by the heroes of a romance); conducive to romance; loving, affectionate. [from 18th c.] "Their kiss started casually, but it slowly turned romantic."
  • Alternative form of Romantic [from 18th c.]
And from https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/romance ...

  • A story relating to chivalry; a story involving knights, heroes, adventures, quests, etc.
  • An intimate relationship between two people; a love affair.
  • A strong obsession or attachment for something or someone.
  • Idealized love which is pure or beautiful.
  • A mysterious, exciting, or fascinating quality.
  • A story or novel dealing with idealized love.
  • An embellished account of something; an idealized lie.
  • An adventure, or series of extraordinary events, resembling those narrated in romances. "His life was a romance."
  • A dreamy, imaginative habit of mind; a disposition to ignore what is real. "a girl full of romance"
  • (music) A romanza, or sentimental ballad.
So, I guess the meaning of "romantic" and "romance" depends on the context. They certainly have plenty of non-sexual meanings.
 
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vinsanity0

Active member
This got me to thinking about something which is not popular to think about. Why do we so closely associate "romantic" feelings with sexual intimacy? Must it be so? Why? ... those kind of questions.

I have friends I just totally adore, and could adore even more if I let myself -- with whom there is not really a sexual interest or desire. But with whom I could certainly imagine cuddling with -- if indeed I have not already.
In more ways than not these have the basic shape and feel of "romantic," at least in relation to how much love and trust and appreciation there is. And commitment, too. I mean, I have to work through shit with them like I do in romantic relationships....

I'm not judging anybody or anything here..., just trying to keep an interesting question alive and vital -- at least for me if for nobody else.

None of that computes for me...lol.

I don't make friends easily. I have very few close friends. Of the ones that are women, I would probably have sex with any one of them. Actually, I have had sex with a few of them, but I wouldn't say romance is involved.

My best guess is we are just wired differently in that respect. I have a highly sexual nature.

But the main reason I don't have a lot of close friends is because I do travel a lot. I was kind of conditioned for it because we moved a lot when I was growing up. I learned to be my own best friend. I get plenty of intimacy from my partners at various levels. I could stand to have another local romantic partner.

This discussion does have me wondering if I could do the cuddle thing if I had an abundance of sexual partners...but then why would I need it at all.
 

GirlFromTexlahoma

New member
I have friends I just totally adore, and could adore even more if I let myself -- with whom there is not really a sexual interest or desire. But with whom I could certainly imagine cuddling with -- if indeed I have not already.
In more ways than not these have the basic shape and feel of "romantic," at least in relation to how much love and trust and appreciation there is. And commitment, too. I mean, I have to work through shit with them like I do in romantic relationships....

I don't make friends easily. I have very few close friends. Of the ones that are women, I would probably have sex with any one of them. Actually, I have had sex with a few of them, but I wouldn't say romance is involved.

I have very close, emotional, loving, cuddly, damn near romantic friendships with women. No sexual attraction at all, I've never felt anything sexual for women. With guys, if I'm emotionally close and enjoy the cuddling, I inevitably end up feeling sexual attraction eventually. Even with guys who are not the type I'd be attracted to normally, there's something about getting that close that triggers it. So for me, the non sexual but romantic stuff only works long term when it's someone where there's zero chance of attraction on at least one side.
 

River

Active member
I have a dear guy friend who I totally cracked up one day when he told me that he likes to have really loving, intimate friendships with men, and it is all the easier and better because there's no possibility of sexual / romantic feelings with men. It's uncomplicated with them.

I cracked him up when I said that I envied him for having that, since I don't have such a sanctuary away from sexual / romantic attraction based on sex/gender.

I was sincere, of course! What a blessing it might be! But I will never know.
 

vinsanity0

Active member
I have very close, emotional, loving, cuddly, damn near romantic friendships with women. No sexual attraction at all, I've never felt anything sexual for women. With guys, if I'm emotionally close and enjoy the cuddling, I inevitably end up feeling sexual attraction eventually. Even with guys who are not the type I'd be attracted to normally, there's something about getting that close that triggers it. So for me, the non sexual but romantic stuff only works long term when it's someone where there's zero chance of attraction on at least one side.

Guys do absolutely nothing for me so I won't be cuddling with any of them, but I am the same way with the opposite sex. Cuddling definitely triggers something.
 

FallenAngelina

Well-known member
Yeah, me too. I'll hug just about anyone, but if I'm cuddling you (not just hugging, but really cuddling) I definitely want to fuck you.
 

GirlFromTexlahoma

New member
Yeah, me too. I'll hug just about anyone, but if I'm cuddling you (not just hugging, but really cuddling) I definitely want to fuck you.

I've always loved non sexual cuddling... Am I just weird :confused:

In high school and college, I shared a bed most nights with at least one of my girlfriends - depending on bed size we sometimes did five to a bed :eek: We spooned and cuddled but nothing sexual. And while I can't speak for anyone else, obviously, I didn't get aroused at all. Was just *nice* to have that close contact. (I still cuddle my close female friends, and my gay male friends, but I have a tough time not crossing boundaries if I cuddle straight/bi guys.)

I miss that honestly... Both Andy and Dag are cuddlers but not while they're trying to sleep, lol. I usually end up in a literal puppy pile with my dogs at night ;)
 

Magdlyn

Moderator
Staff member
Yeah, me too. I'll hug just about anyone, but if I'm cuddling you (not just hugging, but really cuddling) I definitely want to fuck you.

Same here! My gf loves to cuddle. She'd do it all day long. But it doesn't trigger sexual desire in her. I used to find this very frustrating but I've learned to live with it.

I do have extremely close loving relationships with my sister and a couple other female (straight) friends, but we don't cuddle. My sister never even cuddles her husband. She cuddles her cat, and so does he!

My sister is greysexual though, so she purposely keeps her distance from her husband so as to not arouse him. He gets sex twice a week on the weekend, and that is all she can take.
 
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