Why do these people keep coming out of the woodwork?

[CTF]

It never fails... Just when I seem to be feeling better about leaving certain people/events in the past, others seem to try & weasel their way back in.

Last summer, when my wife & I were at our lowest point, which resulted in her severing contact with a couple people in her past, another one of her old friends decided to confess his love for her. Although, with him, there was no ambiguity in his intentions. His hope was that she would just leave everything behind in pursuit of him. She did tell me about it, although I was under the impression that it happened much longer ago. But the time line really doesn't matter, I just happened to be surprised that it had happened so recently.

To my wife's credit, she told him that she doesn't view him as anything other than a platonic friend, and took the initiative herself, to quit talking to him. Apparently, he said - even at that time - that he felt bad, and had no intentions to hurt our marriage or family, but couldn't hold his feelings in any longer.

Well, yesterday, my wife told me that he called out of the blue to apologize to both of us. I guess he had just gone through a breakup & was feeling down, blah blah blah. I told my wife that I was extremely proud of her for the way she handled it at the time, and that I had no problem with her forgiving him. That is her choice to do, and if she feels she can forgive him, then she should. I on the other hand, do not feel as though I can forgive him. Not just over the fact that he went behind my back to tell her something he KNEW I'd be upset about, but also because I don't accept 3rd party apologies. If you're sorry, then show the spine to tell me yourself.

The problem is, it triggered everything else all over again. Granted, we had a much more constructive conversation this time, but one by one, I seem to be losing trust in everyone. I told her last night, that what seems to add to my anxiety, is now wondering who is going to be next. For years, I simply assumed that she was just developing friendships with people, and that she would never choose to associate with people who have such a blatant disrespect for our lives. I tried to reassure her that, it's not her that I don't trust... She interjected with "you just don't trust the guys"... I said "it's not that, I just don't trust anyone I don't know". Especially now. "I did try to trust them, but now that we're up to 3 people who, at a moment's notice, would jump at the chance to get in bed with you & hope to convince you to leave your life behind in order to build a new one with them, I feel even more on guard".

I know that what matters, if our relationship. I'm proud of her and that matters most... I just don't get what the hell is wrong with these losers who feel like the lives & relationships of others is less important than their own selfish, desperate desires.

 

[FallenAngelina]

... I just don't get what the hell is wrong with these losers who feel like the lives & relationships of others is less important than their own selfish, desperate desires.

The greatest surprise of my life is that I become more sexually desirable as I age. I don't know what it is, but I get at least one proposition per week, if not more, from very nice men who just can't help themselves. I don't think of them as "losers" or "desperate," I think of their (usually well mannered) advances as a great compliment to whatever I've got goin' on. A beautiful woman, no matter her relationship status, will attract all kinds of attention, especially if her sexual energy is flowing, as it usually is in a healthy, happy woman. Doesn't mean that those who offer are "losers"and "selfish." Sounds like she handled it in the manner of a woman who is sure of herself and what she wants. I'm not sure why you're upset. Instead of getting angry, you could take this completely as a compliment to her, wish the guys well and get on with your married life.

 

[PinkPig]

I agree with FallenAngelina. I'd also add that I don't think it's necessarily disrespectful for someone to voice his/her truth (love for your wife), provided he/she respects your wife's boundaries after voicing his/her feelings.

 

[GalaGirl]

I just don't get what the hell is wrong with these losers who feel like the lives & relationships of others is less important than their own selfish, desperate desires.

I don't know that I'd call them "losers." But you seem to answer your own question there. Basically they are caught up in their own desires in the moment. That's all they see.

Sounds like the recent Dude is snapping out of it, becoming more able to "see beyond his own nose" and realizing some of his mistakes. He apologized to wife and to you by extension for his behavior. You could choose to let it go there and call it "good enough" apology. Or you could ask for what you need from Dude so you become more willing to let it go -- a direct apology.

"I did try to trust them, but now that we're up to 3 people who, at a moment's notice, would jump at the chance to get in bed with you & hope to convince you to leave your life behind in order to build a new one with them, I feel even more on guard".

Wife seems to be handling herself just fine and she's not interested in running off with whoever. You and wife seem to be communicating better.
Overall it sounds like things are better than last summer.

Is it that you prefer wife just not tell you when she declines these things so you can have a period of mental calm and stability rather than these frequent mental upheavals? If so, could tell her your preference. "Stop telling me about these things even if they happen over the next 6 mos. I need to chill for a while." Could ask for what you need from her.

I on the other hand, do not feel as though I can forgive him. Not just over the fact that he went behind my back to tell her something he KNEW I'd be upset about, but also because I don't accept 3rd party apologies. If you're sorry, then show the spine to tell me yourself.

If this is the behavior you are mad about, and this is the person who did the behavior? Rather than sit and stew and fuel your anxiety/defenses cranking up? Ask for what you need from him. You could contact him directly since you appreciate direct communication. Could ask him to apologize to you direct, rather than "through the wife." Could choose to fuel your willingness and ability to let it go instead.

It's like you want to expect/trust people to just never ding you. When a more realistic expectation might be to expect/trust yourself to handle it directly if you do happen to get dinged.

Galagirl

 

[CTF]

Personally, I happen to believe that it IS disrespectful. I get that people tend to become enamored with others, and even know at the time that they desire a type of relationship with someone that's impossible to obtain. But when telling someone something that is known to do nothing but damage to all involved, then sometimes those burdens need to stick within the confines of their own minds.We're not talking about an instance where "you don't know, if you don't try"... We're talking about "You know you won't get what you want, and you risk causing pain by even opening your mouth".

Like I said earlier, I give my wife tons of credit for handling it the way she did. I am, in no way, upset with her over it at all.

I told her last night that I appreciate her telling me this, even if it brings up feelings that I'm quite uncomfortable with, and memories I'd rather forget. Because, if we can't communicate about things we might not see eye to eye on, then we really can't communicate at all, and we just become acquaintances.

As for the 3rd party apology... I tell my wife that, if he truly wanted to apologize to me, then he should be man enough to do it directly to me, otherwise, it means nothing. While I'm glad he realized that what he said crossed the line, he's not someone I value enough to worry over whether or not his presence in my life matters. If he wants to apologize, then I will let him, if not, then who needs him!?

That being said, I don't take it as a compliment when someone express their wish for my wife to leave me & run away with him. Fallenangelina, you may be used to being propositioned... While I, personally, have had that happen maybe twice in my life to me, I am incredibly uncomfortable with that... So I can't see it as a compliment when it happens to her, if it makes me feel uneasy when it happens to me. General compliments on her attractiveness are another story... Sure, who doesn't enjoy being told that... But this was something else entirely.

 

[FallenAngelina]

.... I can't see it as a compliment when it happens to her, if it makes me feel uneasy when it happens to me.

Our entire world is our perspective and the story we're telling ourselves. The story you tell yourself is your choice to hold as is or to change. You can see all of this as a wonderful testament to your beautiful wife and to her deep regard for you or you can be angry at the selfish losers for intruding on your home. Your experience is always up to you and always changeable according to your thoughts about it. Always.

 

[Vinccenzo]

To answer your title question, the common denominator here is not "people who use friendship to lure my partner", it is your spouse.

She may keep you informed and not let it get out of hand but, something about who she makes friends with or the nature of what those friendships are built on lead to the interest in your spouse that you find offensive.

Yup being an attractive single lady will lead to guy friends making a play. Very common. But when I was in a monogamous relationships, I had no problem steering my opposite gender friends away from thinking they had a shot at least until my relationship at the time ended. People who would engage in an affair with a married person don't tend to step to a closed door because no one likes to get shamed and rejected.

 

[Dustytx]

Are you & your wife actually in an open/poly marriage? I'm asking because yes you will run across people who overstep boundaries. It sounds like your wife has been good at handling this situation. Was it disrespectful to you? Sure. Does it help you to be angry or hold on to negative feelings about it? No.

My BF & I are both married. We love each other but respect the boundaries & our spouses. The lines of communication remain open between the 4 of us. He & Pixie have been swingers for years. There have been multiple previous relationships that evolved into the women bashing Pixie & telling him how much better off he'd be with them. Those were primarily sexual relationships which he was upfront about where it would go/not go. However one in particular got psycho about things & Pixie stepped in to ensure the relationship ended. She was very concerned about me in the beginning & it led to a rough road between 3 of us but we made it through. She accepts the feelings that Surfer & I have for each other but prior to us actually having those feelings she was judging me based on her anger & resentment of the previous relationship. Now she's more assured that I'm not trying to take him away.

Ultimately it took her & I having a conversation about her reasons for hesitation & reaching an understanding about boundaries. I told her the same thing I'm telling you, a bad experience occurred but she was wasting a lot of energy feeling negative about it. Could it happen again if he has a third relationship or if he & I break up? Sure, but deal with that if it happens.

 

[CTF]

Our entire world is our perspective and the story we're telling ourselves. The story you tell yourself is your choice to hold as is or to change. You can see all of this as a wonderful testament to your beautiful wife and to her deep regard for you or you can be angry at the selfish losers for intruding on your home. Your experience is always up to you and always changeable according to your thoughts about it. Always.

I don't completely disagree with you these. It's true, I do have the choice as to the perspective - however - I hesitate to call this "wonderful testament"... Sure, I do give her loads of credit for handling it. I have no anger towards her. As for him, I don't need him, so he can fly a kite for all I care. I guess, what it comes down to, is this feeling where I just throw my hands up & wonder "what the fuck is wrong with some people?".

 

[CTF]

To answer your title question, the common denominator here is not "people who use friendship to lure my partner", it is your spouse.

She may keep you informed and not let it get out of hand but, something about who she makes friends with or the nature of what those friendships are built on lead to the interest in your spouse that you find offensive.

Yup being an attractive single lady will lead to guy friends making a play. Very common. But when I was in a monogamous relationships, I had no problem steering my opposite gender friends away from thinking they had a shot at least until my relationship at the time ended. People who would engage in an affair with a married person don't tend to step to a closed door because no one likes to get shamed and rejected.

Obviously yes. She is the common denominator. And while I'm growing more confident that she is able to fend these people off when she needs to, I simply get tired of this parade to her feet of people trying to gain her love, attention & affection.

The thing about my wife, is that she's an extremely empathetic person. She's always been the type to listen to other peoples' problems, and do what she can to help them feel better about themselves. But it's almost like she causes Stockholm Syndrome, and once their self esteem is lifted, they develop the nerve to try & claim their caretakers as their own.

I read an article recently, where it's very common for some (mostly men), to avoid close relationships with people, because they can't seem to differentiate emotional intimacy from sexual attraction. I would imagine that this might be what's taking place with some of the people she associates with online.

I have no problem understanding the fact that guys online will tend to make a move, whether that woman is married or not. I don't engage in that life much, but from what I see, there is a huge disparity of men/women, so once they see a woman, they get excited. Which is precisely what happened with another guy my wife got close with... Which led to her coming out as poly, and nearly ended our marriage.

What I do have problems understanding, is how people don't understand simple logic... If someone is married, they are OFF LIMITS unless otherwise stated. And all involved KNEW she was off limits in that regard. But it still didn't stop them.

 

[CTF]

Are you & your wife actually in an open/poly marriage? I'm asking because yes you will run across people who overstep boundaries. It sounds like your wife has been good at handling this situation. Was it disrespectful to you? Sure. Does it help you to be angry or hold on to negative feelings about it? No.

My BF & I are both married. We love each other but respect the boundaries & our spouses. The lines of communication remain open between the 4 of us. He & Pixie have been swingers for years. There have been multiple previous relationships that evolved into the women bashing Pixie & telling him how much better off he'd be with them. Those were primarily sexual relationships which he was upfront about where it would go/not go. However one in particular got psycho about things & Pixie stepped in to ensure the relationship ended. She was very concerned about me in the beginning & it led to a rough road between 3 of us but we made it through. She accepts the feelings that Surfer & I have for each other but prior to us actually having those feelings she was judging me based on her anger & resentment of the previous relationship. Now she's more assured that I'm not trying to take him away.

Ultimately it took her & I having a conversation about her reasons for hesitation & reaching an understanding about boundaries. I told her the same thing I'm telling you, a bad experience occurred but she was wasting a lot of energy feeling negative about it. Could it happen again if he has a third relationship or if he & I break up? Sure, but deal with that if it happens.

Simply put... No. We are not in an open marriage. She came out as poly last June, and our marriage would have ended had the particular guy she was close with, did not disappear from her life completely. I have been nothing but clear, that I am an unapologetic monogamist for the 19 years we've been together. It hurt deeply when she told me, but didn't hesitate to agree that our marriage will forever remain closed, and that I will never give consent to sleeping with anyone else. Just the thought that she's considered it gives me anxiety.

 

[dingedheart]

The greatest surprise of my life is that I become more sexually desirable as I age. I don't know what it is, but I get at least one proposition per week, if not more, from very nice men who just can't help themselves. I don't think of them as "losers" or "desperate," I think of their (usually well mannered) advances as a great compliment to whatever I've got goin' on. A beautiful woman, no matter her relationship status, will attract all kinds of attention, especially if her sexual energy is flowing, as it usually is in a healthy, happy woman. Doesn't mean that those who offer are "losers"and "selfish." Sounds like she handled it in the manner of a woman who is sure of herself and what she wants. I'm not sure why you're upset. Instead of getting angry, you could take this completely as a compliment to her, wish the guys well and get on with your married life.

I don't want to put words in the op mouth but context here matters. It sounds like he knows these guy(s) and actually thinks they're losers ( his opinion ) not just a angry insult. CTF please correct me if I'm wrong.


In addition it's one thing to make a remark on how stunning, attractive, dazzling someone's smile, eyes , legs, yoga pants are and it's another to say I love you and come live with me 2000 miles away. At least I think it's different because I told a women a coupe days ago that I loved her yoga pants ...and I don't really know well enough for her to move in with me

CTF :
I think the conversation I might want to have is what they talked about to drive that level of intimacy for him to make such a declaration and offer. And how were you portrayed....and why ( assuming things were exaggerated). I'm thinking maybe she liked the attention or damsel in distress.


I don't think it's as simple as married people are off limits because your wife may have discussed at length her poly identity....her open marriage philosophy ....her views on extra-martial sex. Those might not be stop signs.
Here too context matters.

 

[IndieSolo]

But when telling someone something that is known to do nothing but damage to all involved . . .

What damage can be done if you and your wife are secure in your relationship and you trust her and are confident in her fidelity? None. No matter how many men proposition her, if there is no basis for worry, then you have nothing to worry about -- and no reason to take offense. You would laugh it off whenever another hopeless hapless individual makes a play because you know he'll get nowhere.

I think the main reason you're feeling offended, insulted, and upset is because you don't trust her.

 

[GalaGirl]

I have been nothing but clear, that I am an unapologetic monogamist for the 19 years we've been together. It hurt deeply when she told me, but didn't hesitate to agree that our marriage will forever remain closed, and that I will never give consent to sleeping with anyone else. Just the thought that she's considered it gives me anxiety.

is that the bottom line? You worry she will consider some proposal and leave? Because the relationship with you is not enough? That's why you don't like hearing about guys proposing such a thing?

I think you could be confident in that she wants to stay when she tells you she wants to be here. Being in relationship with you IS enough.

If you don't like her telling you about the proposals but trust her to handle herself? Just tell her to quit telling you when it happens.

If you don't actually trust her to handle herself? Be honest and tell her you don't trust her to handle herself yet. Figure out how many times she has to clock before you decide to risk trusting her ability to say "No" and let this worry go.

I get that her coming out as poly this summer was hard, but in the end?

• You trust her Word when she says she's happy here and wants to stay in a Closed marriage and her Word is backed up with her actions in daily living... she is consistent in both word and actions.
  
• Or you don't trust her Word because her Word is NOT backed up with her actions in daily living. She says one thing and does another.

Galagirl

 

[dingedheart]

I get that her coming out as poly this summer was hard, but in the end?

• You trust her Word when she says she's happy here and wants to stay in a Closed marriage and her Word is backed up with her actions in daily living... she is consistent in both word and actions.
  
• Or you don't trust her Word because her Word is NOT backed up with her actions in daily living. She says one thing and does another.

Galagirl

OR

• she's 100% supported and dependent on him. And from what I recall she doesn't work and doesn't do much around the house so in this case words and actions might not be a perfect indicator of ones true thoughts and feelings.
  

I think ( I could be wrong on this ) but her coming out as poly wasn't just hard.
It was a F 5 tornado ....it was a 6 earthquake ....it's thrown everything in question. And all her actions and words during that period didn't help strengthen bonds and answer questions it did just the opposite.

People here love analogies it's like being in a batting cage in the dark and getting it with fast balls and then someone turns the lights on and the sound the machine makes you flitch..."WTF is wrong with you lights are on now". Yeah ok. Deal.

 

[FallenAngelina]

...her coming out as poly wasn't just hard. It was a F 5 tornado ....it was a 6 earthquake ....it's thrown everything in question.

This is the issue, not the "losers" who you're turning your anger on, CTF. As has been said, if you had trust (whatever that means to you both) and a rock solid understanding with each other, no person or force in this world could evoke anything but mild amusement in response to these approaches. No matter how well or how little you or your wife know these men, the issue here is that your relationship with your wife is still quite shaky. That's not a judgement, it's just important for you to know. Perhaps your wife is sending out "available" signals, perhaps not. The bottom line is your perception that she is not 100% yours, as you very much want her to be.

In this forum community, we never try to convince anyone to adopt a poly attitude if it doesn't speak to their heart. Quite the opposite. The forum members here typically see monogamous partners struggling miserably to adapt to the poly that has come up in their relationship. Most of us counsel the mono partner to embrace his monogamous desires. It's a rare person who comes from a long life of satisfying monogamy and happily switches to having a poly partner, especially if any kind of secret relationship is involved. In your situation, as I recall, there's been quite a bit of information withheld, if no outright affair, and you are strongly against an open marriage of any kind. Your wife continues to be who she is (poly inclined) and this is why you rail against the "losers" who seemingly come out of the woodwork to tempt her. Nobody can come out of the woodwork or jump from the bushes and get into anyone's life unless that person is allowed in somehow. It just can't happen without emotional cooperation in both people.

How you see the situation sets the tone. Right now, you're a perfect cooperative component in the "wolves at the door" scenario, believing these men to be slobbering over your innocent wife once they get a whiff of her. If you don't like the way this feels, don't rail against the wolves. It's fruitless and it paints you and your wife as helpless victims. You never have to suffer with "the way things are." Never. Change your story, change your world.

 

[CTF]

I don't want to put words in the op mouth but context here matters. It sounds like he knows these guy(s) and actually thinks they're losers ( his opinion ) not just a angry insult. CTF please correct me if I'm wrong.


In addition it's one thing to make a remark on how stunning, attractive, dazzling someone's smile, eyes , legs, yoga pants are and it's another to say I love you and come live with me 2000 miles away. At least I think it's different because I told a women a coupe days ago that I loved her yoga pants ...and I don't really know well enough for her to move in with me

CTF :
I think the conversation I might want to have is what they talked about to drive that level of intimacy for him to make such a declaration and offer. And how were you portrayed....and why ( assuming things were exaggerated). I'm thinking maybe she liked the attention or damsel in distress.


I don't think it's as simple as married people are off limits because your wife may have discussed at length her poly identity....her open marriage philosophy ....her views on extra-martial sex. Those might not be stop signs.
Here too context matters.

That's true... The way I see it, this was not some ordinary, "you look amazing" type of "compliment".

We did have a conversation about what they talked about. And I never got the impression that their talk stemmed from her complaining about her marriage, etc... Quite the opposite. He was having problems, and struggling, and in way, sort of fell for his "caretaker".

It's also true that having conversations about views on open marriages in general aren't necessarily off limits. However, according to my wife, she had never disclosed her poly identity to him. Granted, maybe she just told me that, but taken at face value, that doesn't appear to be the case. And if she did disclose that identity, then it all comes down to whether or not she represented MY feelings on the subject accurately. If she lied & told him I was okay with it, then the problem rests with her... If she told him that I wasn't, then it's really with both of them. Either way, without 100% clarity & confirmation that I was on board with the poly, then it's a discussion that was completely inappropriate to have. No ifs ands or buts, I should have been the FIRST person she disclosed it to (aside from, perhaps a therapist).

 

[CTF]

What damage can be done if you and your wife are secure in your relationship and you trust her and are confident in her fidelity? None. No matter how many men proposition her, if there is no basis for worry, then you have nothing to worry about -- and no reason to take offense. You would laugh it off whenever another hopeless hapless individual makes a play because you know he'll get nowhere.

I think the main reason you're feeling offended, insulted, and upset is because you don't trust her.

I'm talking about the damage to their friendship, at the very least. From his perspective, they both risk losing a friend in each other.

Under those circumstances, I understand that most people would just be able to laugh it off. Sure, one joker propositions her, and we both look at each other & say "yeah right... Beat it." But things take a different toll when you take the time to try & get to know someone, think that you do, and out your trust in them, only to find out that they had less than stellar intentions all along.

The main reason I'm upset, isn't because "I don't trust her"... I'm upset because there seems to be this constant sense of shock, in discovering that the people I thought I knew, were never who they presented themselves to be. Including my wife, we're looking at 4 people that I have learned life changing things about... And the anxiety over who might be the next person I discover that I never really knew, is going to be.

 

[CTF]

is that the bottom line? You worry she will consider some proposal and leave? Because the relationship with you is not enough? That's why you don't like hearing about guys proposing such a thing?

I think you could be confident in that she wants to stay when she tells you she wants to be here. Being in relationship with you IS enough.

If you don't like her telling you about the proposals but trust her to handle herself? Just tell her to quit telling you when it happens.

If you don't actually trust her to handle herself? Be honest and tell her you don't trust her to handle herself yet. Figure out how many times she has to clock before you decide to risk trusting her ability to say "No" and let this worry go.

I get that her coming out as poly this summer was hard, but in the end?

• You trust her Word when she says she's happy here and wants to stay in a Closed marriage and her Word is backed up with her actions in daily living... she is consistent in both word and actions.
  
• Or you don't trust her Word because her Word is NOT backed up with her actions in daily living. She says one thing and does another.

Galagirl

I'll admit, that there was a time in which I feared that she would leave in pursuit of greener pastures. The one thing about her, is that she's always looked towards changing her scenery in an attempt to improve her situation. However, she's also always wanted security above all else. Sometimes the two go hand in hand, and other times they contradict each other... It can get very confusing... And it's one reason why trying to be supportive of her can be so challenging.

Now, knowing that she stays because she wants to IS very comforting. Don't take my recent complaints as an indication of how everything is right now. Things really have been better. The anxiety triggers do still happen, but they're fewer & farther between. But the word "enough", comes in more than one form... I want to be "enough" for her, in the sense that she could never desire more. Not just "enough" as though she's settling because her basic needs are being met. Enough can mean satisfying, and enough can mean the bare minimum. Riding the bus to work is technically "enough", but it's not generally satisfying.

And it's not that I don't trust her not to act... It's the desires that I have a problem with... Yes, coming out as poly was hard... Quite literally, the hardest thing I had ever dealt with (yes, more difficult that my Dad passing, because one felt more personal than the other). And while I've been working on reducing the sting over time, it's still going to take a long time to feel like I'm fully comfortable. I know that it's hard for some to understand, but the feeling that your partner has even considered sleeping with someone is traumatizing, even if they agree not to, there is always going to be that wonder if they're truly happy with that, or when the next one she may want comes into the picture.

 

[CTF]

OR

• she's 100% supported and dependent on him. And from what I recall she doesn't work and doesn't do much around the house so in this case words and actions might not be a perfect indicator of ones true thoughts and feelings.
  

I think ( I could be wrong on this ) but her coming out as poly wasn't just hard.
It was a F 5 tornado ....it was a 6 earthquake ....it's thrown everything in question. And all her actions and words during that period didn't help strengthen bonds and answer questions it did just the opposite.

People here love analogies it's like being in a batting cage in the dark and getting it with fast balls and then someone turns the lights on and the sound the machine makes you flitch..."WTF is wrong with you lights are on now". Yeah ok. Deal.

More like the tornado & earthquake happening simultaneously, while being laughed at for being injured in the storm.