Why lie about my marriage?

BathedInSalt

BathedInSalt

New member
This is rambling, because I'm still working it out myself. This is my first attempt at organizing my thoughts.

THE SITUATION:
Sir's parents invited me over for Thanksgiving. (I love that they did this.)
His dad knows that He is poly, but doesn't know He continues to live that way
His dad knows His ex was married
Dad doesn't know for sure that I am poly and married
Dad doesn't know hong Sir and I have been dating.

It was decided by dad that "mom doesn't need to know".

Sir's brother "grilled" Him one afternoon so they do know I have "some kids" and the kids were invited to Thanksgiving dinner as well.


Sir isn't ready to be completely out as poly to His family. We've talked about why and I recognize that it's in His court. I listened and told Him what I would do if I were Him, but ultimately the shifts in attitude and perspective are on His plate. I understand why He doesn't want to be open and also His sadness because He isn't open with them. He wants to have authentic relationships with His family.

My stance has historically been that I do not want to remove my wedding rings, I do not want to lie. I've personally been coming out over the past year to people on either a need to know basis or the desire to be honest with the people I care about and who care about me.
I met Sir's parent's in August and had my rings on. We were only there for a short while and I didn't have to tell a single lie, even of omission.


I am asking myself why don't I want to lie about my marriage:

1. The exhaustion of making things up and maintaining a lie, un-sustainable.
2. I wouldn't ever be able to have my kids around His parents, bc I won't ask them to lie.
3. It doesn't align with my integrity, makes me feel yuck.
4. I wouldn't want my husband to lie about his marriage to me for his partner.
5. It's not the kind of relationship I want to have with His parents.


I thought more about 4. Why wouldn't I want to be lied about?
I don't want to be erased.
I want to pick this part more, but I'm not getting anywhere. That's my first question. Please help me sort this out.

At the end of the day I don't think I can come around Sir's family until He is out to them.

He was just at my house hanging out with my husband and kids and my husband's parents and that was so awesome for me. My husband isn't out to his family.
I can't say we directly lied or even omitted things, but I wouldn't call what was going on honesty.
We still had a great time. My heart was full of love.
Is it right for me to deny that to Sir?

I'm considering lying, to give Sir those moments.

This all stemmed from me not being able to help Sir accept what He needs in order to come out. I was trying to think of my role in this and what I can control and really pick it apart. Hopefully with your help.

At the very least I'm sure I can get more organized thoughts about the whole thing.

What are your experiences with this? How have you handled it?
 
Let me repeat back what I understand in my own words. You correct me if I get it wrong, ok? I quote just to visually block it off. Bleu is my questions.

BACKGROUND

You have spent the last year and a half coming out of the poly closet to select people on either a need to know basis or the desire to be honest with the people you care about and who care about you. You value authenticity, integrity, and don't want to be lying.

Sir is not out as poly to his family. His dad and brother kinda know, but the dad doesn't want the mom to know. Sir is not ready to grapple with any of that so let's it all slide for x reasons and you accept his reasons are his reasons.

You hung out once over there with your rings on. Then again with your kids. Now you don't want to hang out over there again until Sir is "officially" out to his family. (Because you don't want to start forming relationships and start caring about these people if you cannot be out? Because it feels weird? Because it goes against your ethics/preferences for being authentic/out? Because you want recognition of place as his GF? Something else? A combo?)

Your husband is not out to his family as poly. You, husband, and your BF Sir were recently hanging out at your husband's family. You three are not "out" to husband's family in terms of all of you being in a poly network. But there you do have a "place of recognition" as the wife. You came to realize it didn't feel entirely ethical to you, but you did enjoy having your people with you. And you have a different way of going for hubby's family than Sir's family.

PROBLEM

Hanging out with husband's family made you realize some things. Now it bugs you that you will go along with being in the poly closet for hubby's sake, but don't want to go along about the poly closet for Sir's sake.

(I have a question... Is it about the "poly closet" or not having "recognition of place" there? Or both things?)

POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS

You have conflicting wants.

  • At the end of the day, you don't want to come around Sir's family until He is out to them because you value not lying, integrity, etc.

  • You are considering lying/compromising your ethics to give Sir those moments of "all his people together."

These conflicting wants that are causing you internal conflict.

You are thinking about compromising your values in order to give Sir those "happy family moments."

Alternately, you are trying to figure out how to make Sir more comfortable being "out" to his family so then this problem goes away that way.
Click to expand...

Is that about it? If so?

If you cannot have both, I think you could put the higher value FIRST. Which is (maintaining your ethics/mental well being) before (contributing to his comfort/happy moments.) You do your basics before contributing to his bonus.

He is his own basics, you are his bonus. It is fair that way -- you each attend to your own selves and your own well being before contributing to each other's lives. That way you don't burn out or overextend yourselves.

You talk about not wanting to be erased. I don't see anyone erasing you. I wonder if you might mean you want to be SEEN? Given place of recognition -- that you are important in Sir's life as his GF if your are gonna hang around over there more? But saying that means saying POLY gf. And he's not ready to do the poly part yet. So your solution of not hanging out there works. You don't have to lie, he can stay in the closet til he's ready to change that. Sir can give you place of recognition in his life in other ways.

If Sir wants "happy family moments" with his family he can figure out how to make it so. Otherwise skip them for now. Maybe he's happy just having them over with your family or your hubby's family.

Who else is missing besides the mom since the dad and brother already kinda know/suspect/guessed? Is the mom ill or something? My dad is an alzheimer patient. There's a bunch of things I don't tell him. Because it would agitate him, not worth it, and he cannot take it on board and keep it in there anyway. Things fall out of his head from one day to the next.

If she is ill? If she's sick like my dad... then sometimes it is kinder to not bother the patient telling them things. Maybe you reduce your desired percentage from 100% out to something less but still acceptable. If 2/3 of the main family knowing is good enough? Maybe that's good enough.

Perhaps you would feel better if Sir would be very clear with the dad and brother that you are his current poly GF, and give you "recognition of place" in his life as such to these people. Then not telling the mom (esp if she's sick) might be ok to let slide.

If she is well, that's keeping her in the dark. Which Sir is allowed to do. HIS personal life details and who he chooses to share them with is all his biz.

Just like you got to pick who you want to be out to. Doesn't he get to pick on his side? Not everyone is close or tight with their parents. I'm not.

Galagirl
 
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In my first poly relationship where I was just learning about my wants and needs, my partner didn't want to tell people about me because it would have complicated things for him and he didn't want to deal with it.

Power exchange or no power exchange, it's absolutely okay to have a boundary of refusing to lie to deny a relationship. For me, the cognitive dissonance wasn't worth it and I eventually ended the relationship (although this was only part of many issues).

I would choose not to attend if you might have to lie about being married. I absolutely would not have your kids lie. To me it feels kind of weird that you'd go to a holiday thing and take your kids... where's your husband, at home by himself? I'd feel awkward about that in the first place.
 
Vicki82 said:
I would choose not to attend if you might have to lie about being married. I absolutely would not have your kids lie. To me it feels kind of weird that you'd go to a holiday thing and take your kids... where's your husband, at home by himself? I'd feel awkward about that in the first place.
Click to expand...

Having the kids lie was never a consideration. If Sir and I aren't out poly, then the kids don't go to the parents.
It's not unusual to split up holidays or even do non-traditional things for the holidays, but I haven't even gotten that far in the planning b/c 1. It's not actually happening and 2. I have to figure out these issues first.

In the future I could imagine spending partial holiday days with Sir's family or other events in His family...birthdays, etc. with little to no impact on my husband unless Dean also has issues with being erased (placed of recognition). These are conversations yet to be had.
 
I can relate. I strongly dislike dishonesty, whether my own or someone else's, and I have fairly strict guidelines for what I consider to be "honest."

I've not had an experience of trying to navigate holidays with a partner's family yet. The closest I've come is holiday-season parties at my boyfriend's house, and pretty much everyone who attends those is aware that he's poly, so I'm introduced as his girlfriend and so are any of his other partners who attend, as far as I know.

I did date a guy a few years ago who was monogamous and was absolutely panicked that someone in his life would find out he was dating a married woman. I believe he told his ex-wife and her girlfriend, because I met them a couple of times; they understood poly, however. I met his kids, but they were young and I was just introduced as "Dad's friend." But otherwise, he was constantly anxious about his friends, his family, and his employer finding out, and those fears ultimately helped kill our relationship. Being involved with him was difficult, because I didn't like being kept a secret from the people who mattered to him.

My husband is also monogamous, and has asked that I not deliberately tell his family I'm poly or knowingly do anything that would cause them to find out. For a little while, I tried navigating it by referring to my other partners as my friends, because that isn't entirely dishonest. But it also isn't the whole story, and not being able to be authentic about who I am and who my partners are to me finally got to me to the point that now I pretty much have no contact with Hubby's family. I wasn't overly close to them anyway, and I would rather have no relationship with them whatsoever than continue denying people who are far closer to me than they ever were. Hubby doesn't have much interaction with them himself, so it doesn't matter to him if I see them or not.

I would say if you feel strongly about being your authentic self, and about not hiding your marriage and your husband's existence from your Sir's family, you're wisest to base your decision on what you feel to be right. It isn't up to you to "make" Sir happy. It's up to you to be who you are and act in a way that makes *you* feel happy and comfortable.
 
@GalaGirl:
You have everything right, except my kids haven't been around Sir's family. I've only ever been around His parents once, for a short amount of time.

"But there you do have a "place of recognition" as the wife. You came to realize it didn't feel entirely ethical to you, but you did enjoy having your people with you. And you have a different way of going for hubby's family than Sir's family."

Let's talk more about this place of recognition, because I think it's part of what I'm feeling, but I didn't have the words for it. It also seems like the one thing that's in my control.

Also, I didn't even consider that I have a different way of going for hubby's family than Sir's family. My initial reasoning for that is that I was already married to Dean when he and I opened our relationship. Coming out to his family is Dean's prerogative and we have talked about what could happen if one of the kids talk about Sir in a way that raises eyebrows with Dean's family. I think I'm OK with lying to them because we are all OK with it? Perhaps it is b/c of the security of the place of recognition? Maybe it's an issue I've just already grappled with along with Dean.

"Now you don't want to hang out over there again until Sir is "officially" out to his family. (Because you don't want to start forming relationships and start caring about these people if you cannot be out? Because it feels weird? Because it goes against your ethics/preferences for being authentic/out? Because you want recognition of place as his GF? Something else? A combo?)"


I already care about these people. I actually have a history with them, but we haven't been in contact for 18 years. Long story.
Sir and I talk about a forever relationship that might involve a kid. I don't think it's wise to re-start my relationship with His family on lies. If Sir and my life intersect in these big ways, being out poly is the only way to do things, if He wants to involve His family in the way He seems to.
Maybe I care too much about what His parents think of me? I've sort of resolved to not caring so much about how Dean's parents see me. There were a few issues within the last few years that showed me where I stand, what I mean to them and how they view me. It wasn't pretty.

It does feel weird b/c I don't want to erase Dean.
I do want a place of recognition, but I'm not sure why that's important to me and if it will carry as much importance after I figure it out.

Poly-closet or recognition of place: My answer is I don't know. Probably both.
I really have trouble hiding things in general an lying.
Perhaps it's my Ego too.


I'm with you in your responses that followed the quoted section and I like the simplicity of basics and bonus. Thank you.

There's no one else missing besides His mom. She's not sick, but they (Dad and the brothers) have their reasons for "protecting" her. The sons have just followed the Dad's lead on this one and I have lots of issues with it, but it's not my business.

To be clear, no one in Sir's family knows I'm poly or married. No one knows that Sir is still actively poly.
There has been one conversation between Dad and Sir after Sir's ex outed Him. The reason brother knows stuff is b/c of talk in the family.

I'm pretty sure that if Sir wasn't so serious about me I would be more OK with staying closeted, lying about my whole family and most of my life experiences. Just thinking doing that though make me feel terrible.

I can see there are things I need to ask Sir. I'll add them to my list. :)

Thanks for helping me sort this out. I'm not there yet, but I will be.
 
Glad it helps some.

Maybe it also helps to come at it the other way.

Starting with you first rather than starting with Sir.

You are the hinge in a V that consists of you as the hinge to both, wife to Dean, and GF to Sir.

GOAL:

  • You want to be "out" to the people you care about because you value authentic living and not lying


VETTING A DATING PARTNER

  • So... where does Sir stand on that?
  • And if he doesn't share that value/want... is that a deal breaker?
  • Are you seriously dating him before having sorted that out?
  • If so, how to catch these conversations up?


WHO YOU CARE ABOUT
  • I assume you care about your family.
  • You don't care about Dean's family nor your relationship with them. So leave it to Dean to tell them about poly stuff or not tell them. Either way, you do not care about them.
  • You do care about Sir's family and your developing relationship with them. Since you and Sir are talking about a forever relationship and maybe having a kid together. At the same time, you want them to know Dean is in the picture too and not "erased."
  • I assume you each have friends too.


POLYCULE:

  • Does Dean share that want to be out with people you all care about? What people does he care about?
  • Does Sir share that want to be out with people you all care about? What people does he care about?
  • What, if anything, stops them from wanting that too or being out to those people?
  • What happens if the people you want to be out to, one of them doesn't care to be out to?


FAMILIES

Does your family know this is a V thing with you legally married to Dean?
  • Do they only know pieces? Does this need changing? At this time, later or never?
  • Who is responsible for telling them?
  • What (if anything) blocks that telling?

(I list this one for completion but greyed out cuz you don't care about Dean's family)

Does Dean's family know this is a V thing with you legally married to Dean?
  • Do they only know pieces? Does this need changing? At this time, later or never?
  • Who is responsible for telling them?
  • What (if anything) blocks that telling?

Does Sir's? Who is responsible for telling them?
  • Do they only know pieces? Does this need changing? At this time, later or never?
  • Who is responsible for telling them?
  • What (if anything) blocks that telling?

FRIENDS

Does your group of friends know all that?
  • Do they only know pieces? Does this need changing? At this time, later or never?
  • Who is responsible for telling them?
  • What (if anything) blocks that telling?

Does Dean's? Who is responsible for telling them?
  • Do they only know pieces? Does this need changing? At this time, later or never?
  • Who is responsible for telling them?
  • What (if anything) blocks that telling?

Does Sir's? Who is responsible for telling them?
  • Do they only know pieces? Does this need changing? At this time, later or never?
  • Who is responsible for telling them?
  • What (if anything) blocks that telling?


I'm pretty sure that if Sir wasn't so serious about me I would be more OK with staying closeted, lying about my whole family and most of my life experiences. Just thinking doing that though make me feel terrible.
Click to expand...

Be clear with yourself. You are NOT ok with lying about your whole family/life experience.

When it's serious relationship? It mega super stinks.
When it is casual relationship? It still stinks.

That does not mean "ok with it." It means "Still stinks." I get not mega super stink, but stink is stink. It is not JOYFUL. And it is a side trip. Because this is NOT casual. This IS a serious relationship with Sir. Right? When thinking and talking this out with Sir? Don't chase irrelevant side trips.

A long time ago my mom used to bug me about every person I was dating. I told her not every date becomes a THING. I'd tell her when to get excited. Otherwise, don't. So eventually I called her up and said "Alright. Dating a guy. NOW it is time to get excited. How about a dinner to meet?"

If you and Sir are planning a forever relationship and having a child? I think you guys could talk about how to come out to his family as a Poly V. You, Sir, and Dean. You can keep it quiet at the start but sooner or later?

If you want to be seen as a "serious GF" or even "wife, just not legally" or similar? As a functioning V? And you don't want Dean ignored/"erased" from things? You want him to also have a place of recognition?

Then sooner or later Sir's gotta introduce his serious dating partner/polycule to his people and present them as such if he also shares the want to have extended family connections like you seem to. Time to get excited.

So you and Dean can be recognized as important people in Sir's life and who you actually ARE. Not passing them off as "friends" or whatever. Then the family can decide if they accept this, if they want to start to include you in family things or not to get to know you better.

I'd get that out of the way BEFORE planning to TTC. You need to know where you stand with these people before a child enters into it. Because explaining to a child why his father's family won't recognize him is painful.

You may also need to sort out what the laws are where you live. Cuz if you are legally married to Dean, in some places, your child would have him listed as the father on the paperwork even if the bio dad is Sir.

Galagirl
 
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I totally under why you won’t do this. One of my basic poly rules for myself is that I won’t hang out with people who can’t know that my partners are both partners - won’t pretend to be a friend, won’t not mention one partner while around the other partner’s people (family, friends, whatever). If that’s a problem I’ll skip the interaction entirely. Simplifies things.
 
Hi BIS,

If I had my druthers, I would "come out of the poly closet," at least to my own blood relatives. However, my two poly companions do not want to come out, so I respect their wishes. That's me, however; what's right for you may differ from what (I think) is right for me.

The thing about your story that stands out the most to me is, Sir hanging out at your house, with the kids present, and not outing yourself to Dean's parents. True you've decided to not care about how Dean's parents see you; however, it remains a fact that you don't have a single standard for outing yourself. In some cases outing yourself is a must, but in other cases it is (not ideal but) acceptable to remain in the closet. (And that in those cases, it is even okay to have the kids help keep the secret?) What you have to decide is which (of those two categories) Sir (and his family) falls under. Sir's true relationship with you is kept a secret from Dean's family. Can it also be kept a secret from Sir's family?

Just curious: Does Sir have plans to eventually out himself? If he does, maybe you can tolerate the situation for now because it is a temporary situation. Or, does he plan to remain in the closet forever?

Difficult situation. I hope the posts in this thread will help you to sort it all out.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
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