Woman suggested polyamory to my grieving husband

[confusedintheuk]

Hi, I've been browsing here for a few days, trying to understand, trying to learn, but cannot reconcile how I feel.

I'm not polyamorous, though I totally respect other people's choices and lifestyles. As I said, I've read this forum, and others, and although I accept that I may have been "hardwired," the truth is I am happy this way.

I'm married to a monogamous man, or so I'd always been told by him and believed. He'd been cheated by his previous wife, and claimed to even have hated the FFM threesomes they'd had. This is my first marriage.

We have 4 children between us, 3 living. We have one grown son each. We had two very young children, but one died very recently.

My husband, Tommy, met a woman, Amber, and became friendly with her. We went out for dinner with her and her bf, Eric. I found out that night that Eric was married, but I knew he was dating Amber. At the end of the evening, Eric went home, and Amber came to our house for a drink.

When she was here, she suggested a game of strip poker. Tommy was drunk and played along, whereas I sat there not saying anything, but getting very angry and uncomfortable. Amber then suggested a threesome, and they tried to talk me into it. I got my coat and stormed out in tears. Tommy came to get me and said I was overreacting. Amber was very sarcastic to me, and made me out to be a prude. She's very intimidating. I'm very, very shy and unassertive. I felt threatened, disrespected, even unsafe, in my own home, and angry that Tommy didn't stick up for me.

A few days later, Amber came round again (even though I'd told Tommy that I didn't feel comfortable with him pursuing a friendship with her). She sat down and talked to me and Tommy. She told me that she'd explained the concept of polyamory to him, and that he was interested. I was floored by this. I had never heard of it, and had lots of questions.

She explained a lot of what is on this site, but when she started talking about how love isn't finite, and used the metaphor of how the love for existing children isn't diminished by the birth of a new one, I got angry. Whilst that it is true, it is still *changed*. When our youngest child died, a part of us died too, and the way I related to my surviving children was different, especially to our toddler. I had been close to her, but I became very distant from her, and still am, in a way.

She explained how Tommy was probably always polyamorous, and that she'd told him it was normal. I told her that as far as I was concerned he could divorce me, then. She told me how selfish I was, that I could not control or possess Tommy, that I was emotionally stunted.

We've only just been offered bereavement counselling, and she wants to come too, and Tommy supports her. The reason that she wants to come is to "support" him. I feel this is totally unacceptable. This is *our* loss, nothing whatsoever to do with her, even if he *does* pursue a relationship with her. It is also very personal and intimate between us. We conceived our child. It should be us, and us alone, that goes to counselling. I think that her going there is just opening him up to emotional intimacy with her, and I don't even want him sharing in private his feelings about our loss. That should be preserved for us. I feel as if she is preying on an emotionally vulnerable man, and in trying to share our grief, she is building an emotional bond with him.

I feel distraught right now. Tommy and I have an emotional bond that this woman (or any other woman) can NEVER share. We lost a child, and unless he loses a child with this woman, then she can never share the intensity of our emotional life.

She has also said that she might like to have a child with my husband in the future!

I don't know what to do. I don't want to open up our marriage, period. If Tommy wants to, he should first have the balls to leave me, then do what he will, not try to get me to change the parameters of our marriage.

I also feel that this woman is far too pushy. I don't like her. Tommy sides with her instead of me, and I don't want him to even stay friends with her, someone who knows she has the upper hand with my own husband.

I don't know what I'm looking for coming here, just some advice, really. I'm so upset and distraught.

 

[MonoVCPHG]

In short, Amber sounds like a nut job and a bitch, based on what you've written here. Hopefully, Tommy doesn't let his dick take control of his thinking brain. If she weren't so judgmental, manipulative and aggressive about this, now that she knows you don't want it, I wouldn't be so harsh.

I hope Tommy is smart enough to see that temporary excitement could ruin a good relationship. I also hope he is strong enough to let you go, if he is polyamorous, or just wants to have an open relationship.

She wants to have a child with your husband????- fuck her, and not in the good way.

If some guy came over to my house and spoke to me this way (called me emotionally stunted), I'd show him how stunted I was and stuff a foot in his ass. (And then I'd be single anyway, because Redpepper hates that stuff. )

 

[Phy]

First of all, welcome. I am so sorry that you had to suffer such a loss.

And secondly: what the actual f?! How long has Tommy know this person? She really got some nerve, inviting herself over and right into your bed, when you don't really know her and never heard or thought about something like swinging before. At least as long as you are in the picture, that is what this is about, swinging. Polyamory is about love, not jumping into bed with strangers.

And thirdly: again, she's got some nerve. How on earth did she get the idea to go to counseling with you two? That's just so rude and uncalled for. You are absolutely right, it's the loss of your husband and yours to mourn, not her place to get involved at all.

To me, Amber is invading your relationship and privacy on every possible level, totally disregarding you and your needs. But what is really worrisome here is Tommy's behavior, in my opinion. How can he act like that? Maybe this is the aftermath of the loss he experienced, or whatever brought him to think that it would be okay for him to do something like this in such a situation. His reaction and demands seem to be kind of extreme.

Have you been able to talk to him about his reasons for wanting to pursue this woman and polyamory? And why he can't give you at least some time to think about the concept theoretically? It's highly unreasonable of him to expect you to be okay with something major like this overnight, after he and a stranger talked to you about it one time. Sheesh!

 

[ThatGirlInGray]

I am so, SO sorry for your loss.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Tommy's reaction to this woman and her proposition is at least in part due to his own unresolved grief at the loss you two have suffered.

Amber is way out of line. There is no way she should be trying to get Tommy or you involved in something so potentially life-changing so soon after another life-changing event. You need time to grieve and process and get back to a place in your life that you are okay with. Then, MAYBE, tell Tommy that if he wants to discuss the possibility with you, and only you, to start, you can't promise you'll change your mind, but you will listen. And this is only if you want to, of course.

Grief counseling should NOT include her, unless it's beneficial to BOTH of you (obviously not the case here). If Tommy wants to talk to Amber on his own, perhaps that's his right, but I would see it as VERY dangerous, given the rest of the situation. You absolutely have the right not to have her present, even if it means having to go to counseling on your own.

I wish you all the best in dealing with this incredibly emotional situation.

 

[AnnabelMore]

What? The hell?

Nothing about this is okay, obviously. Tommy is displaying a shocking lack of respect for you by giving this Amber person a voice in your lives over your objections at such a vulnerable time, when she's already:
- Tried to shame you into sex (one strike and you're out when it comes to that, in my book);
- Insulted you repeatedly for your very natural concerns;
- Tried to insert herself into your life in highly inappropriate ways.

I would never, EVER, try to intrude on grief counseling over the death of someone with whom I was not deeply personally involved. And she didn't even know your child. Both she and Tommy should be ashamed of themselves for suggesting this!

If Amber is willing to act like this when she's not even involved as more than a friend, what might she be willing to do if she actually had a relationship with Tommy? It is NOT OKAY for him to invite someone so disrespectful into your lives, and I can only see it getting worse if it were allowed to continue.

An interest in polyamory doesn't make Tommy a bad person, of course. But he should have brought this to you himself, rather than letting his potential new girlfriend explain it to you, while telling you what a bad person you are. Jesus Christ, who is that insensitive???

So, what to do now?

Invite Tommy to come here and read this thread, and see that experienced poly folks are appalled. Then tell him that he has crossed a major line and that if he doesn't stop seeing this woman immediately, you don't know if you'll be able to stay with him.

 

[dingedheart]

I am so very sorry for your loss. I can't even imagine having someone talk to me that way. Like Mono said, it most likely would end badly-- hospital for them, jail for me.

Where did this [deleted expletive] come from? Don't tell me the fucking internet.

Take care of yourself and the kids. The universe will take care of these idiots.

I'd tell that stupid fuck husband he's making big life decisions that will effect more than just him and his dick.

 

[Anneintherain]

I'm so sorry for what you're going through.

Even if you decided you wanted to be poly at some point, this Amber is the last person on earth I'd want near me or my partner. I understand Tommy's behavior does stem some from grief, but I'd find his behavior unacceptable. Hopefully the counselor will set him straight. I might even contact the counselor and tell them what is happening. Maybe they will tell Tommy how inappropriate it is to bring an unwanted third party to a session, and at least they will be prepared to deal with the situation in case the unthinkable happens and he lets Amber show up.

I really don't know what can make Tommy see the light and stop supporting Amber's behavior. I'd suggest telling Tommy that I was hurt that he accepted Amber's mistreatment of you, and that even if you accepted him having other partners, they sure wouldn't be ones who were rude to you.

If you are interested in, or willing to explore polyamory at all, I'd say that conversations about that are something that should be put off until after you have had time to cope with the grief over losing your child, and you should tell Tommy as much.

Nevertheless, Amber is pushy, and she is cruel. Her nerve to talk about maybe having a child with Tommy is insane, at this point in time! I have no idea how long Tommy has known her, but if he is going along with this, he must be in a really bad place mentally/emotionally, and shouldn't be making any life-altering decisions. I don't know if he has been like this before to you in any way (letting people treat you badly), but I am hoping it's just because he is feeling so lost.

I wish I had some more useful advice, but I hope that this is just a really short phase and Tommy comes to his senses. I hope you are able to refuse to talk to Amber again, or to admit her into your home. At the very least, Tommy should respect that. You deserve better than to be subjected to that. And really, if he insists on letting her in, I might suggest calling the cops to show them how serious you were (unless you live in a really high-crime area that can't spare them to visit your house), or get a restraining order if your wishes weren't respected. I think I'd rather either move out or have my husband move out than be subjected to that when I was going through so much.

Edit: I would get a restraining order if she came around a second time after I told my husband I couldn't be ok with her in my home, and find it unlikely I'd call the cops unless they put their hands on me. But I won't delete this because, under these circumstances, with the sexual coercion, verbal abuse and the stress it is causing, I can't say I wouldn't. So I won't pretty up my suggestion, or apologize for saying something so drastic.

 

[Quath]

I am sorry for your loss.

It is hard to give advice because I don't know their side of the issue. It sounds like they are both being disrespectful and controlling.

I think you should decide what you want. Do you want to be with your husband? Ignoring this Amber, could you be okay if he did date other people?

If opening up to polyamory (with you being poly or mono) can work, then I think you will have to be more assertive. Say what you are comfortable with and what you are not. Read some books about polyamory with Tommy. That will help show guidelines for polyamory that tend to work. Tell him to cool it with Amber until you possibly feel more comfortable with the situation. And insist they both treat you with respect.

 

[confusedintheuk]

Thanks for your replies.

Tommy has known Amber for about 6 months. I'd only heard of her in passing, and never by name, until very recently.

He and I had a long conversation last night. I told him that this was *our* marriage, and any decisions about it would be taken and discussed together, and not in the presence of, or any deference to, a third party. Sure, I'm on here asking for advice, trying to get my head round it, and it's fine if he's spoken to someone who is polyamorous, but preferably after he'd spoken to me about his feelings, especially not confiding in a woman who'd be interested in having a relationship with him. "Cart before the horse" comes to mind here, and it's natural that my defences would go up. All I heard is "This woman and I want an intimate relationship. Deal with it." Unless he'd discussed the possibility of being polyamorous before, then to me it sounds like he's found someone and wants to legitimise cheating.

They'd exchanged several emails, and he showed them to me. Okay, so I did push him when he told me that they had, as I will not tolerate some relationship decisions being talked about, when I'm the one in the relationship, and not her.

To start with, she was a supportive friend, someone whom he confided in when he was initially very, very down. Whilst I appreciate her support, and can understand why he was drawn in, it upset me that he confided in her things he didn't with me. That in itself feels like a betrayal. Sure, he may have not wanted to upset me, and she was an objective outsider, but she was a *woman*, and that upset me, him opening up emotionally to another woman, which in this case was always going to be fraught with danger. If I'd confided in another man at that time, that would have been just as wrong.

The fact is, I needed him at that time, and he needed me, and instead he betrayed me by confiding in Amber, building intimacy, discussing things of such a personal nature. And of course she encouraged it. Not once did she tell him to talk to me (which is what you should do in bereavement-- talk to each other, not to "friends"). Instead, she seemed to revel in being his confidante.

She then started flattering him, talking about how much she admired him, how the fact that he and I didn't talk was proof that one person was not enough.

She spoke disparagingly about our marriage, picking fault, reminding him of arguments we'd had that he'd told her about. Very subtly planting seeds in his mind about us.

Then she brought up the idea of being in love with more than one person at a time, and confessed that she'd fallen in love with him. She told him that he'd fallen in love with her, although he was scared to admit it.

To be fair, Tommy actually told her he loved me, and wanted only me, but still she (very subtly), kept on about loving him, about him being confused, but how we all are when we fall in love with someone else.

Eventually he did confess that he "thought" he loved her.

I've told him that I don't want him to speak to her anymore. He's not happy, but has agreed. If he hadn't, I would have moved out with our toddler.

I'm really not sure about polyamory. I guess I'll be flamed here, but no, I don't think I will ever accept it. I have great respect for you guys, but I know it's not for me.

If Tommy decides he truly is polyamorous, then we will have to end our marriage.

I have asked him to think long and hard about it. Would he be happy to be with just me for the rest of our lives? I'm not stupid-- I know that situations can develop, that we can't know the future, that we can only promise to try to do what we feel today. I know there are no guarantees.

But I'd also rather just move on with my life, and Tommy move on with his now, if he feels that polyamory is something he wants to explore, than to live with resentment.

I don't know what else to do, really.

 

[AnnabelMore]

No one is going to flame you for thinking poly is not for you. We read enough stories here from people who couldn't make it work to know that it's truly *not* for everyone. And even if you *could* make it work, you're under no obligation to. While we could tell you all about the ways in which it can be great, it's also a lot of extra emotional work, and no one should be forced to take that on if they know they can have an emotionally satisfying relationship in the way they're used to, and want that instead.

If you and Tommy are able to move on from this, but it still seems like it's something he needs (which I would in no way be sure of, since it sounds like Amber was really manipulating him... but it could be, nonetheless), and you decide you want to at least consider it, there are lots of good resources out there for "mono/poly" couples. But none of them will tell you that it's easy or that it's for everyone.

 

[bookbug]

Polyamory is not for everyone. And in any case, it should not be considered under the current circumstances, when you are still actively grieving the loss of your child.

As for your husband, while I can't defend his actions, I can see how this woman sucked him in. Grief is an emotion that people would do almost anything to have lessened. I'm sure that when he thought about her, it decreased his thoughts about the grief somewhat. This is something that she could do that you could not, because as you said, you both shared that loss. When he talks to you about his own grief, there is no relief because you are grieving, too. However, this woman took advantage of that, and that is truly horrible.

I think when he began confiding in Amber, his intentions were purely innocent. Someone to talk to with an outside perspective. In most cases, it would not have even been an issue and may have helped him, which would have helped you both. Unfortunately, Amber turned out to be a greedy whack job.

 

[IndieSolo]

I am so sorry about your loss, and especially that you and Tommy are being preyed upon by a lunatic at this time of grief.

He's not in love with her; he's grieving and confused. I hope you can meet with your bereavement counselor soon and bring this situation up, so the counselor can see how twisted up inside Tommy is to have fallen for this predator's bullshit! I really am in shock that any person had the nerve to do this to you, which would be bizarre at any time, but especially when you are dealing with such loss. It makes me wonder what her ulterior motive is. She sounds like she could be a con artist.

Good for you for standing up for yourself and telling him what you will and will not accept.

Can you get something like a restraining order to keep her away from you and your family? Do they have things like that where you are? Seriously, I find her actions alarming! Gimme her address, I'll get on a plane from NYC and go beat up the bitch. Grr...!

Really, her behavior is indicative of some kind of mental imbalance. It makes my blood boil to read it. She says anything else to you, remind her that one of the basic "rules" of polyamory is with the consent of all parties involved.

Have you shown this thread to Tommy?

 

[Anneintherain]

I'm glad that although you are shy with other people, that you aren't with your husband, and were able to articulate quite well, it seems, how you feel and what you want. I hope he comes to see in time that Amber was not being caring at all.

Nope, there is no reason to make an effort to be poly if you're not. I am glad you're clear on your boundaries, and are not going to be be talked into doing something you aren't interested in. Good luck!

 

[redpepper]

I dunno... what if he is in love with her? Really, he wouldn't know until he is through his grief. I would be request working on that first, rather than threatening to leave.

I think if I were in your situation I would request (no one can "make" him) that he not see this woman for, say, a year. I would ask that the two of you work together to get through your grief without any outside "help," other than therapists, counselors, true friends and family. I would ask that he do his own work on his relationship orientation. After the year, I would ask him to revisit his feelings and let you know where he is at. If he is still grieving as much then he needs more time. If he still "loves" her, then it's time to look at where your relationship is going in the future.

You had a child together; you lost that child together; it's time to grieve together. I'd be pulling his chin around, looking him in the eye, telling him I love him and that we need to do this together and then holding him and reminding him of what you lost together. He has a responsibility to that. He's lost his way here and needs a reality check. That's all that matters here. Amber doesn't matter. It seems to me that dealing with your grief is where you should both be looking at. Not at poly! Amber can wait. He can politely tell her that by saying he has to do some work without her now. "Catch you when that's done," kind of thing.

I am sincerely sorry for your loss. How horrible to lose a child. I can't even image it. Be strong for all of you right now. It sounds like he needs you to be, so he can pull it together. The man's lost, I think.