cheating-poly; what's the difference?

[redpepper]

I recently wrote elsewhere (right here) about how cheating is not poly, to me, and how frustrating it is that people who identify as poly use cheating as a way of justifying their actions, as if they can shrug off cheating by saying they are poly. Cheating sites think they can say they are polyamorous sites, as a result. It has become so common in the mainstream world that poly, and the ethics around it, that I know and strive for, are being bastardized. I find it very frustrating to be working towards something I consider noble, only to find others working towards giving it, what I consider a bad name, by cheating.

At one point I didn't identify as poly for this reason (and others). Then I decided that I admired the ethics of most poly people around me and wanted to be a part of that instead.

To me, it's very important to divide cheating from poly. To me, poly is a way of being inside oneself that can cause people to cheat as a behaviour, but poly is not the behaviour of cheating itself. Thoughts?

 

[marksbabygirl]

To me, cheating has always been breaking the boundaries that were set as a part of our relationship.

For some, that could be looking at porn.
For some, that could be flirting with someone.
For some, that could be physical intimacy
For some, that could be emotional intimacy.

It depends on what boundaries you have in each relationship.

 

[BrigidsDaughter]

To me, cheating has always been breaking the boundaries that were set as a part of our relationship.

For some, that could be looking at porn.
For some, that could be flirting with someone.
For some, that could be physical intimacy
For some, that could be emotional intimacy.

It depends on what boundaries you have in each relationship.

I'd have to say mutually-agreed-upon boundaries, especially in regards to porn. I hear so many people saying they consider their SO watching porn to be cheating, but I don't believe that it is, unless the couple had a mutually-agreed-upon boundary of no porn.

 

[lucky7]

To me, cheating has always been breaking the boundaries that were set as a part of our relationship.

For some, that could be looking at porn.
For some, that could be flirting with someone.
For some, that could be physical intimacy
For some, that could be emotional intimacy.

It depends on what boundaries you have in each relationship.

Exactly

 

[marksbabygirl]

I'd have to say mutually agreed upon boundaries; especially the in regards to porn. I hear so many people saying they consider their SO watching porn to be cheating, but I don't believe that it is, unless the couple had a mutually agreed upon boundary of no porn.

I'm pretty sure that's just what I said...

 

[BrigidsDaughter]

I didn't see anything about the boundaries having to be agreed upon in your post, and I think that is where a lot of people get caught up. They have personal boundaries they want in their relationship. But they only bring them up when their partner crosses a boundary. Then they accuse them of cheating. I've seen it here too, that people may not know that it is a boundary until it is too late, and then they end up paying for it.

 

[Chimera]

I didn't see anything about the boundaries having to be agreed upon in your post and I think that is where alot of people get caught up. They have personal boundaries that they want in their relationship, but they only bring it up once their partner crosses their boundary and then they accuse them of cheating. I've seen it here too, that people may not know that it is a boundary until it is too late and then they end up paying for it.

I think you've hit on an important issue. There's often a lack of clarity around boundaries. How one person understands a conversation about the relationship might be distinct from the other partner. Or one person has personal rules/boundaries that they don't really communicate to the other person, but assume that they're in agreement. There are times when the "cheating" is really a misunderstanding. I'm not romanticizing things or taking it lightly. I have serious issues with trust. I've been on both sides (if there are "sides" of this issue). I've been given time and chances, and I've given that to others.

My partner and I are now working on creating written agreements because of some of the issues we've had in the past. Tristan Taormino suggests this in Opening Up, and we think it might help really make desires and behaviors transparent.

I also think that leaving the door open to renegotiation can be a positive thing. I've learned the hard way that rigidity can stifle open communication, even if, in the end, boundaries don't shift.

Oh and to the OP, in my mind, cheating is just cheating. I guess I see that stereotype linked to ideas of swinging and unicorn-hunting. That's the image of what "poly" is.

And, while I'm on the subject, I'm not fan of Mormonism (I'll leave those reasons aside), but it's ridiculous to me that people in polygamous relationships get arrested and charged with crimes.

 

[redpepper]

There's often a lack of clarity around boundaries. How one person understands a conversation about the relationship might be distinct from the other partner. Or one person has personal rules/boundaries that they don't really communicate to the other person, but assume that they're in agreement. There are times when the "cheating" is really a misunderstanding.

There is sometimes assumed monogamy also. Sometimes people just don't talk. One person expects that the other is doing what THEY think is appropriate. I have noticed that it is sometimes very convenient to NOT talk about something, in order to get one's way, and use that as an excuse to cheat.

Some people tell their partner they are poly, and that's it. They don't expand on that, or let the partner know what is going on for them, and the partner is left in the dark about what is going on. Sometimes that leads to them believing that their partner is poly, but has decided to be monogamous with them. Or worse than that, that their partner has decided to not talk to them about it. It's not lying, but it's just as bad, in my book.

 

[opalescent]

I was at a conference a few months ago that had sessions on various alternative sexualities, kink, poly, etc. I was at an incredibly fascinating session dealing with the findings of first study ever done on kinky women in any numbers. Anyway, the researcher tracked relationship styles of her respondents, allowing them to define themselves. As a result, she had a significant number of people who fall into the broad category of ethical non-monogamy. In the discussion following her presentation, one of the audience members stated that poly was not about ethics or honesty, and could exclude all involved knowing the situation. (I'm paraphrasing; it was a while ago.) I was completely astonished by this statement. I still am. For me, and I've discussed this in other threads, the defining thing about polyamory is not the multiple love part. although that's important, it's the ethics of honesty and respect for all involved. Without those elements, it's cheating, as RP writes.

 

[MonoVCPHG]

Poly to me is a way of being inside oneself that can cause people to cheat as a behaviour, but poly is not the behaviour of cheating itself. Thoughts?

In my opinion, this is the best statement you have ever written, Lilo. I think it is clear, very precise and reflects a valid point.

 

[GroundedSpirit]

I recently wrote elsewhere (right here) about how cheating is not poly to me and how frustrating it is that people who identfy as poly use cheating as a way of justifying their actions.

Hey RP,

I wish everything could be so black and white. I'm not one who can draw that hard line in the sand, in many instances.

As we've seen so many examples of, even just on this little forum, life is not always that simple. I've seen people who are obviously, truly, polyamorous, but because of circumstances, are, by what most would define, cheating, because they see no way out, according to the "do the least harm" philosophy.

But on another note, I do agree with your overall sentiment that you also have a number of abusers. And this, too, is just another unfortunate part of the human equation. Despite all the purest and best intentions, every group or movement has been tainted by less than honest, ethical people, from the church to the government to the police department. I only hope that most people are intelligent enough to make allowance for this fact also, and not label the group by its lowest member. It's a numbers game, in the end. When the scales start to tip in the wrong direction, it's time to bail.

 

[AutumnalTone]

I recently wrote elsewhere (right here) about how cheating is not poly to me ....

It's not just your thoughts on the matter. It's pretty cut and dried that cheating is not poly in any fashion. From Morning Glory Zell, herself:

In 1992, when the editors of the Oxford English Dictionary contacted Morning Glory Zell to ask for a formal definition and background of the word; part of her response was “The two essential ingredients of the concept of ‘polyamory’ are ‘more than one’ and ‘loving.’ That is, it is expected that the people in such relationships have a loving emotional bond, are involved in each other's lives multi-dimensionally, and care for each other. This term is not intended to apply to merely casual recreational sex, anonymous orgies, one-night stands, pick-ups, prostitution, ‘cheating,’ serial monogamy, or the popular definition of swinging as ‘mate-swapping’ parties."

 

[IndieSolo]

It's not just your thoughts on the matter. It's pretty cut and dried that cheating is not poly in any fashion. From Morning Glory Zell, herself:

In 1992, when the editors of the Oxford English Dictionary contacted Morning Glory Zell to ask for a formal definition and background of the word; part of her response was “The two essential ingredients of the concept of ‘polyamory’ are ‘more than one’ and ‘loving.’ That is, it is expected that the people in such relationships have a loving emotional bond, are involved in each other's lives multi-dimensionally, and care for each other. This term is not intended to apply to merely casual recreational sex, anonymous orgies, one-night stands, pick-ups, prostitution, ‘cheating,’ serial monogamy, or the popular definition of swinging as ‘mate-swapping’ parties."

Thanks, AT -- so glad you posted this! Now, I wonder, is there a good definition somewhere of an "open" relationship, and how it differs from polyamory? I got into a conversation with someone about that recently and they disagreed that there was a difference.

 

[Magdlyn]

...people in [poly] relationships have a loving emotional bond, are involved in each other's lives multi-dimensionally, and care for each other.

This. I guess I am not poly then, because while I have a primary partner, I have not found another one to be involved with my life "multi-dimensionally" yet.

 

[OpenandCountry]

Thanks, AT. I'm so glad you posted this! Now, I wonder, is there a good definition somewhere of an "open" relationship, and how it differs from polyamory? I got into a conversation with someone about that recently and they disagreed that there was a difference.

Open relationships and poly are quite different, in my experience. My husband and I tried having an open relationship (casual sex only) before I met my bf. Well, I fell in love with my boyfriend and wanted him to be a part of my life, so I now consider myself as the hinge of a poly V.

I sometimes feel guilty about breaking the rules of our original agreement by developing feelings for my boyfriend, but I never hid my feelings from my husband, and I kept him filled in on our relationship. I think that is why he insists that he isn't angry/resentful of the situation, because I was so honest with him from the start.

I've been struggling with this issue. Since I broke our agreement, even though I didn't plan on it or mean to, am I a cheater?

 

[IndieSolo]

This. I guess I am not poly then, because while I have a primary partner, I have not found another one to be involved with my life "multi-dimensionally" yet.

Well, haha, of course that's not true, dear! What AT posted was only a part of Zell-Ravenheart's explanation of poly that they had on their website. What she submitted to the Oxford English Dictionary was this: The practice, state, or ability of having more than one sexual loving relationship at the same time, with the full knowledge and consent of all partners involved. So, having the ability or desire for this qualifies you and me to be in the club! Heh-heh.

 

[IndieSolo]

I sometimes feel guilty about breaking the rules of our original agreement by developing feelings for my boyfriend, but I never hid my feelings from my husband, and I kept him filled in on our relationship. I think that is why he insists that he isn't angry/resentful of the situation...because I was so honest with him from the start.

I've been struggling with this issue. Since I broke our agreement, even though I didn't plan on it or mean to, am I a cheater?

What?! No, of course not. We can't be expected to turn our feelings on and off like a light switch. It just doesn't happen that way. You fell in love. You were honest, never kept anything hidden from the hubs, and realized that the "rules" were too restrictive and had to be renegotiated. That isn't cheating. Cheating is running around in secret, hiding what's going on, breaking rules on purpose.

No, hun, don't be so hard on yourself. You're human, and you were honest and upfront about your feelings!

 

[Magdlyn]

I sometimes feel guilty about breaking the rules of our original agreement by developing feelings for my boyfriend... Since I broke our agreement, even though I didn't plan on it or mean to, am I a cheater?

No. Feelings are feelings. I believe it's naive for people to insist on sex with no feelings of emotional closeness to result.

As always, you can't help your feelings. It's how you act on them that counts. In your case, you didn't try to hide them, and acted responsibly. What more can a partner ask for?

 

[OpenandCountry]

No. Feelings are feelings. I believe it's naive for people to insist on sex with no feelings of emotional closeness to result.

As always, you can't help your feelings. It's how you act on them that counts. In your case, you didn't try to hide them, and acted responsibly. What more can a partner ask for?

Thanks for the encouragement. I still feel a little bit guilty at times, but I'm working on it. The guys get along really well, and my husband insists he isn't angry. I am so grateful for both of their attitudes regarding our situation.

 

[redpepper]

It's not just your thoughts on the matter. It's pretty cut and dried that cheating is not poly in any fashion. From Morning Glory Zell, herself:

In 1992, when the editors of the Oxford English Dictionary contacted Morning Glory Zell to ask for a formal definition and background of the word; part of her response was “The two essential ingredients of the concept of ‘polyamory’ are ‘more than one’ and ‘loving.’ That is, it is expected that the people in such relationships have a loving emotional bond, are involved in each other's lives multi-dimensionally, and care for each other. This term is not intended to apply to merely casual recreational sex, anonymous orgies, one-night stands, pick-ups, prostitution, ‘cheating,’ serial monogamy, or the popular definition of swinging as ‘mate-swapping’ parties."

AT, what's the link for this? Thanks for posting it!